A God never dies (OU RMT)

[Rurushu]

Poor Snorlax, who once was a god and now is nothing but a mere shadow of its past. But even now he await for a chance to shine
like in the good old days, and this chance finally appeared.

Yeah, this team revolves around curselax. First, lets look at the top 40 and see the menaces to snorlax,:

#1 Scizor - Snorlax can't set-up against him and will lose to SD sets if he doesn't carry fire punch.
#2 Salamence - Snorlax can't really set-up, but mence can't stop the sweep (in fact, after one curse, snorlax CAN use non-DD mence as a set-up fodder).
#3 Gyarados - Snorlax can't set-up, but he won't stop snorlax from sweeping.
#4 Heatran - Can't do anything against Snorlax (except for the really rare Metal Sound) and will be used as a set-up fodder.
#5 Infernape - Fighting types, snorlax biggest nemesis. Close Combat won't OHKO after a curse, but i won't be staying in risking the team's core >_> But oh well, he doesn't like Body Slams.
#6 Metagross - Cbander versions are a real pain due to the possible MMash boost before i'm able to KO metagross, but anyway, i won't be risking myself against such a powerful exploder.
#7 Tyranitar - Can't counter Snorlax without DDance/Choice Band (CH stone edges are scary.
#8 Swampert - Set-Up fodder. Can phaze me but a +1 Body Slam will take a large chunk of his health.
#9 Blissey - Can't do anything against Snorlax without charm (and charm is pretty rare).
#10 Gengar - Troublesome with focus blast and/or explosion.
#11 Lucario - Snorlax cryes against Lucario, but Lucario doesn't like fire punch/possible paralize.
#12 Latias - Somewhat of a set-up fodder. I have to watch out for trick.
#13 Jirachi - Trick is dangerous, but after a Curse, he can only hope to beat snorlax with lots of flinches.
#14 Azelf - Snorlax doesn't really like explosion/trick, but can take unboosted special hits all day long.
#15 Starmie - Only dangerous with trick.
#16 Zapdos - Set-up fodder. Can phaze me, but not without losing some health.
#17 Celebi - Perish Song can end my sweep and leech seed is really troublesome... other than that, can't really do anything against lax.
#18 Bronzong - Can take a large chunk of snorlax HP with explosion and nothing else.
#19 Skarmory - Can phaze/set-up spikes. Fire Punch won't even 3HKO him with only one curse. A great threat.
#20 Vaporeon - Set-up fodder. Haze/Roar can be troublesome, but the number of vaporeons who uses these moves are far from dangerous.
#21 Breloom - Motherfuckin' little mushroom. However, after sleep clause is activated, he can't switch against Snorlax.
#22 Gliscor - Can Taunt me and Sdance alongside snorlax curses, snorlax wins one on one.
#23 Jolteon - Specs Thunderbolt isn't exactly easy to take, but they'll fail to 3HKO. LO versions without Charge beam are set-up fodder, and with those paper defenses, he isn't exactly hard to KO.
#24 Flygon - Can't do anything after one curse without choice band.
#25 Machamp - Great nemesis bla bla bla.
#26 Kingdra - Snorlax always wins one on one against any version (without rain).
#27 Togekiss - Can flinch me 'till death and trick me... nothing else.
#28 Rotom-H - Set-up fodder without trick.
#29 Suicune - I'll win the Calm Mind X Curse war.
#30 Weavile - OHKOed after a curse, can't really do anything against +1 Snorlax without Swords Dance... Ice Punch locked bander versions are set-up fodder.
#31 Magnezone - Set-up fodder. Weak Explosion after a curse.
#32 Hippowdon - Can phaze me.
#33 Electivire - who? But oh well, CH cross chop are a pain.
#34 Forretress - Set-up fodder, but i'll be attacking before he can set-up entry hazards.
#35 Mamoswine - LO quake hurts even after a curse.
#36 Dusknoir - This thing still exist? Anyway, he can only Pain Split/force me to use rest after will o wisp.
#37 Empoleon - Torrent Surfs hurts, oh how they hurts... but empoleon doesn't exactly counters snorlax.
#38 Aerodactyl - Only used as a lead. CH stone edges aren't exactly funny and taunt stops my set-up, but he isn't a problem.
#39 Snorlax - sup brother :D But hey, selfdestruct isn't something that my lax likes to eat.
#40 Heracross - Bla bla bla fighting type.


So, hmmm... :

-Trick is troublesome
-Fighting types are troublesome
-Explosion is troublesome
-Skarmory is a bitch ):

So, what can i do to cover these weaknesses?


Now, that's enough intro... let's move to the real team with every set explained detail by detail etc etc

Swampert @ Leftovers
Relaxed 240 HP/216 Def/52 Satk
~Hydro Pump
~Earthquake
~Stealth Rock
~Roar/Protect

Hmmm, srsly, the weak link. He's a good lead all around but doesn't perfectly fits the team.

Can be replaced by Metagross/Heatran/Azelf (in fact, i'm always switching him for something else).

I guess i'm breaking rule 3 here, because the only description i'm able to add about him is:
Set-up Stealth Rock, standard mixpert, phazer and first option if i need to sac something. Sorry Swampert ):

Scizor @ Life Orb
Adamant 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spe
~Bullet Punch
~Superpower
~Pursuit
~Swords Dance

I know, i know... weird set + weird EVs. With 176 speed, he can outspeed Rotom-A without speed investiment and OHKO with +2 Pursuit or leave Rotom with something like 10%~~.

Scizor is part of my anti-stall plan. He will weaken skarmory with +2 Superpower/KO rotom. Any of these two options is fine, because now Snorlax or Jirachi are able to sweep.

Also, priority with godlike power is always welcome, like the gengar coverage. I could use Night Slash and always OHKO Rotom, but the trapping ability is better.

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Bold 220 HP/124 Def/164 Spe
~Ice Beam
~Reflect
~Thunderwave
~Lunar Dance

Yep, Lunar Dance Cresselia. But i don't really need the screens (i'm using reflect only because ttar could easily destroy my team otherwise) and the paralize support is important for such a slow team.

Lunar Dance is a key move. After one curse, Lucario, Infernape and other fighting types are unable to OHKO snorlax, but snorlax will barely survive. Now cresselia can use Lunar Dance and snorlax will once again be at full health! But this time (hopefully) without any fighting type to stop the sweep.

And she helps with breloom :b

Jirachi @ Expert Belt
Hasty 240 Atk/16 Satk/252 Spe
~Iron Head
~Fire Punch
~Grass Knot
~Thunderbolt/Thunder

The lure. Skarmory loves to switch in, only to be severely dented by Tbolt or KOed by Thunder (if i'm feeling lucky).

If scizor manages to KO Rotom, Jirachi will have a field day against full stall teams. Having a steel type doesn't hurt either, allowing him to be a effective scizor check.

After testing out a lot of options (Metagross, TTar...) i decided to stick with mixrachi, because of his speed (bla bla slow team).

With both Tbolt AND Grass Knot, phys. walls like skarmory and hippowdon are both easily 2HKOed. Expert Belt also allow me to bluff choice scarf.
However, Grass Knot can be replaced with Shadow Ball. Suggestions?

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Timid 252 HP/68 Satk/188 Spd
~Discharge
~Hydro Pump
~Shadow Ball
~Will O Wisp

Snorlax has a fighting weakness and hates explosion. Also, scarf does not fits snorlax style, but rotom can still funcition well with scarf, so he's a good defensive support.

Discharge because my team really likes the paralize support, Hydro Pump to hurt TTar and Shadow Ball to deal with Latias/Enemy Rotom-A.

Enough Speed to outrun Adamant Lucario, max HP and leftovers in satk to give me more offensive power.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Careful 168 HP/120 Def/220 Sdef
~Body Slam
~Fire Punch
~Rest
~Curse

The star of the show. With his weaknesses covered by Rotom, counters covered by Scizor + Jirachi and Cresselia's support, it's not really hard to sweep with snorlax. But he ain't selfish with his comerades! With his amazing SDEF, he covers Scizor, Jirachi, Cresselia and Rotom from SATKs with ease.

Snorlax will try to sweep two times: after the phys wall w/ phazing a move has been defeated and after the revenge killer is lying six feets below the ground, due to cresselia amazing Lunar Dance.

Body Slam for paralize support because the team is slow bla bla bla...



Rate, steal, ask some detail...

 

[Emperior]

You can use Rain Dance with Thunder if you hate Skarmory and feel unlucky...
great team

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Really good team, always been a fan of curselax. By the way, Improve your english :p
Now seriously, I like that Jirachi. You're missing the natures of some pokes (Rotom) , so you better fix that.

 

[Rurushu]

I'm slowly fixing typos etc (i typed everything really fast during the dawn, but i guess that there is nothing really horrible here, but i admit that i did not reviewed the text)

But... appart from this, any sugestion? I'm really looking for a better lead (swampert is ok, i guess...).

And even if the 100% acc thunder is good, my team has no business running rain dance and can't really afford any moveslot.

And Rotom-W nature is timid n_n

 

[Rurushu]

Bump ):?

 

[matzemix]

well i would not go with metagross as the lead since it gives you the 3rd Fire Weak. I personally dont like heatran, no idea why, but it never helped me. And as a lead its not the best choice i guess.
Swampert is fine, there will be sum situations where u wish you have got Roar, so Pert is ok. Your team also resist his GrassWeak very well.
Azelf can be used also, it also has got SR and you will run it with Explosion to take sth with it. You can also use Taunt on it, what is very useful against other leads like Bronzong or Roserade. And a 3rd Levitate Pokemon never hurts :P

 

[Tarquin]

Notes on Snorlax
As you have mentioned, you often use Snorlax's boosted defense to take a fighting his from A Scizor or Heracross and then heal it later with Cresselia. In this case, I would suggest running Return over Body Slam, as it will do heavier damage to Heracross, as well as Hitting Phazers like Zapdos and Swampert harder. If you choose to use a Lum Berry, as I suggested below, it also aids you versus Machamp, as you can hit back without confusion. Even so Body Slam is still a great and viable move for you to use!

Is Leftovers really the best item to use on Snorlax? See as he has only one weakness, fighting, and almost all teams rely on that to beat him, wouldn't a Chople Berry work well? Also, a Lum Berry would give it an instant recovery with rest until it has cursed to invincibility and prevent it being burned. Just food for thought.

Incidently, were did you get those awesome pictures of Scizor, Snorlax and Swampert? =D

Notes on the rest of the team

I was initially worried, as Tab was, about having a team entirely based around Curselax, as he is not a reliable sweeper at all. However, Lunar Dance Cresselia is a great help to him here. I commend you on this choice. The rest of my views on this can be found in my post below Tab's.

I am unsure what Swords Dance on Scizor is doing for this team, as his role appears to be to weaken the opponents, not sweep himself. Therefore, I would personally use a Choice Band or Ubers Variant. U-Turn would be very useful for you on this team, I feel. It would, in particular, allow you to circumvent Breloom but U-Turning his Sub once he has Spored one of your pokemon. You can switch to Rotom on his Focus Punch and Shadow Ball him to death, WoWing if you have the chance.

A Choice Band Scizor would also be of great help to your Ttar weakness, the extra power in the Bullet Punch KOing all non Babari variants. U-Turn is also excellent. You can lure a Dark attack with your Cresselia, then switch to Scizor and either OHKO him or gain an advantageous switch.

Good to see a Snorlax team trying to revive this Godly Pokemon.

 

[tab]

I'm going to agree that Choice Band Scizor would be a better option here. It's generally more effective than Life Orb+SD at weakening teams, which is what you need from it, and has room for U-turn without dropping an important move.

Now onto the real problem with the team...CurseLax just isn't worth using in the current metagame imo, especially in a Lunar Dance team. The reason to run a CurseLax over another sweeper such as Lucario, which is what I would suggest, is the added bulk and usefulness as a last pokemon, but as the goal of this team is to ultimately set up a reliable sweep, you'd be much better off going with a Lucario, which requires less setup time to tear apart teams, and is considerably more powerful.

 

[Tarquin]

In Response to Tab and concerning Snorlax as a team sweeper

I Disagree entirely with replacing Snorlax.

1. Snorlax is the theme of this team, so no point in changing it, that undoes all his hard work.

2. Snorlax may seem hard to use effectively but give his team a chance to change that. No matter what you think of Snorlax's potential it has always been a good pokemon and I think that using Snorlax in the place of a frailer sweeper like Lucario is actually pretty clever. Lucario is better prepared for by teams, Rotom, Gengar, Intimidators and Steel / Defensive scarfers all take it down. This team, however, has excellent strategies to eliminate all of Snorlax's counters and since he is so rare and considered 'ineffectual', most teams only assign 1 or 2 counters for his maximum.

3. Here, Rurushu has taken advantage of this fact, it means he has less work to do to clear the way for Snorlax. Thanks to Lunar Dance Cresselia, he can safely use Snorlax himself to eliminate the opponents Snorlax counters, then revive him. As I mentioned before, most teams only have at MOST a maximum of 2 counters for Curselax. Lets say that his team kills one and Snorlax loses most of his health killing the other (a Scizor or Lucario say). No, using Cresselia, Snorlax can sweep completely unhindered and unlike Lucario or Salamence, he is really bulky and tough and can heal himself. It doesn't matter that he takes longer to set up, because the opponent can do very little about it.

4. So in the end, with the precautions Rurushu has taken, Snorlax is a better sweeper then Lucario, as he not so easily OHKOed. He is also far less selfish then Lucario, being a great switch in to Special Attackers too.

He is out to prove that, given the right support, Snorlax can surpass the current sweepers that are fashionable, like Salamence and Lucario (who needs loads of support anyway, considering how prepared for him most teams are) and that he is still a brilliant pokemon. I feel this team has achieved this.

But yes, Choice Band Scizor may be better then your current model xD

Still Godly xD

 

[Staraptor Call]

On Jirachi, I would use Thunder. The hax from it cuts both ways, because after Serene Grace it has a 60% Paralysis chance if it hits. This helps with the slowness of your team.

I would use Roar on Swampert because you can already use Rotom-W to absorb Explosion. Without Roar on Swampert, your team has nothing to pseudo-Haze and could have problems with things like Calm Mind Suicune.

 

[Rurushu]

@ Tarquinmacdonald

Hmmm i dunno about Uber Scizor (i alredy have Snorlax to eat Satks) but i'm going to test the Cbander. And you are right, he hasn't helped the team as a whole (only managed to sweep a couple of times) and i'll certainly test the Cbander.

About Snorlax Item... i don't really want to run Lum Berry because i'm often switching snorlax into Twaves, but both Chesto and Chople Berry are good options, and i'll see if he can live without Leftovers. To say the truth, i wished to use Custap Berry, but currently, Shoddy does not have this item ):

About Return... i dunno, the paralize chance does help with things like Gyarados and Salamence. However, i'll do some calcs about some possible OHKO/2HKO with return.

And thanks for explaining my team even better than i could XD

@ Tab


I can't replace Snorlax with any other sweeper without doing an entire different team. He works really well as a central core and swept a lot of times (actually, more times than any Lucario that i've used so far).

@ Staraptor Call
I'm using Thunder now and it is really helpful with the possible Skarmory OHKO + Paralize rate.
And i replaced Protect with roar and i'm also testing HPower Electric, because Swampert is a great Gyarados lure.

Thanks for the rates :D

Also, you can download a .zip file with the pictures (i had to upload them) here.

 

[Tarquin]

@ Tarquinmacdonald

Hmmm i dunno about Uber Scizor (i alredy have Snorlax to eat Satks) but i'm going to test the Cbander. And you are right, he hasn't helped the team as a whole (only managed to sweep a couple of times) and i'll certainly test the Cbander.

About Snorlax Item... i don't really want to run Lum Berry because i'm often switching snorlax into Twaves, but both Chesto and Chople Berry are good options, and i'll see if he can live without Leftovers. To say the truth, i wished to use Custap Berry, but currently, Shoddy does not have this item ):

About Return... i dunno, the paralize chance does help with things like Gyarados and Salamence. However, i'll do some calcs about some possible OHKO/2HKO with return.

And thanks for explaining my team even better than i could XD

I think Custap Berry might be banned in Competitive play, not sure :)
I think Choice Band Scizor is definitely the way to go, make it can outrun slower Tyranitar!

I have already run calculations, on Heracross Return does 70-75% where as Body Slam does 60-65%. However, as body slam could paralyse these guys anyway, it is also great :). I guess I am just a sucker for power xD.

If you use Snorlax as a Twave absorber then I get the choice not to use Lum Berry. Chesto Berry is great because people can't set up on you in the first rest, when you only a +1/2 in Defence. Chople Berry wouldn't help you as much I think, except to stop your sweep begin revenge killed if you were a 65-75% health.

 

[Jacky Coptor]

Oh, this is a good team with a good pokemon, CurseLax. I really like it but I will suggest one thing:
Hidden Power [Fighting] instead of Hydro Pump on Rotom-w.

• Hydro Pump vs. Adamant 252 HP TTar = 263 Atk vs 256 Def & 404 HP (120 Base Power): 178 - 210 (44.06% - 51.98%) 29.70% - 35.15% in Sandstorm.

• HP [Fighting] vs Adamant 252 HP TTar = 262 Atk vs 256 Def & 404 HP (70 Base Power): 208 - 248 (51.49% - 61.39%) 34.65% - 41.58% in Sandstorm.

I think this is good, because don't need the (low) chance to miss Hydro Pump and have the same result.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

I really like this team and the concept of it, and it's made very well with alot of consideration for Snorlax. I dont have much to say, but if youre really having alot of Skarmory problems you could always use the handy Magnezone to eliminate it and it's buddy Scizor. I also agree with the idea of using CB-Scizor

 

[Tarquin]

Notes on a possible new pokemon

I have a new pokemon to suggest for your team! (exciting moment xD).
It has the power to destroy that damned Lucario, and render that oh so hated Skarmory completely useless!
I speak of Legacy Raider's Trapping Gliscor =D

------------------------------------------------------

Gliscor @ Leftovers / Yache Berry
Ability : Sand Veil
Nature : Jolly
252 Hp / 216 Spe / 40 Def
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Taunt
- U-Turn
------------------------------------------------------

This Gliscor outspeeds all Lucario and OHKOes them, although I'm sure you knew that already. The true genius of this set, however, stems from the combination of Taunt and U-Turn. This combination renders Hippowdon, Fortress, Skarmory and Dual Screeners completely useless! Once you Taunt Skarmory, they have no choice but to attack or switch. When you U - Turn you can gain the advantage, whichever he chooses! Hippowdon is even worse because you are immune to his only attack, Earthquake. Fortress can only do noticeable damage with Explosion, which is becoming less common on Fortress these days, in favour of Gyro Ball or Payback. Even if Forretress is using the standard spread, it will fail to OHKO Gliscor with Explosion and you can Roost off the Damage.

As to where this set could go, it could fill either Rotom or Jirachi's slot, as both support Snorlax and whereas one counter Skarmory, the other Lucario, this does both. I would suggest Rotom, as I feel Jirachi is a great mixed sweeper, whereas Rotom boasts less offensive power and coverage and his only advantage is absorbing fighting attacks, which Gliscor does anyway, as well as also absorbing electricity, just like Rotom and doing a better job of tackling Tyranitar, thanks to a STAB Earthquake against less Defense.

Your Rotom : Hydro Pump Vs. 252 Hp Tyranitar - (33.17% - 39.11%)
This Gliscor : Earthquake Vs. 252 Hp Tyranitar - (47.52% - 56.44%)

So as you can see, this Gliscor does a great job of what Rotom does already in terms of supporting your team. The only thing I can think of so far is that you might miss the electric attack to combat Gyarados. Although Jirachi can handle it if it hasn't DDed up and to be honest, it has a 74% chance to OHKO your Rotom anyway with LO and Stealth Rock, and with Leftovers on Gyarados, Rotom only needs to be a little weakened to be killed anyway.

So there you have it, tell me what you think :)

On a side note

I am currently working on the best defensive core I can, to use in a team in the future and CurseLax was top of my list as a brilliant tank, with status absorbing abilities and a great offensive power. This team has really inspired me on how to correctly support Snorlax and it has also shown me that people havn't forgotten how that all pokemon are great, some just appear easier to use than others. I think the idea behind this team is really great for that reason. I hate the phrase 'props', so an excellent job to you Rurushu xD. By the way, this is why I have taken such a liking and an interest to the team. :)

 

[Rurushu]

I like the idea of using Gliscor, because he would also help me with TTar and is overall more bulky. However, while rotom doesn't exactly countered Gyarados, he wasn't a set-up fodder, while Gliscor is. But with Hidden Power Electric Swampert, Gyarados usually pops really early only to be 2HKOed.
I'm going to try this set you suggested and the Swords Dance set.
btw, Gliscor can set-up against snorlax "counters" (fighting types) while snorlax can easily set-up against Bulky Waters. A really good offensive combo, while Jirachi takes care of Skarmory.

I'll update the first post tomorrow with Gliscor (in the paper he looks great, but testing him before making a definitive change won't hurt).

I really appreciate the help, Tarquinmacdonald :D