XY OU A Greninja widow team

[n0000000b]

Hi. This is one of my first teams, and the one that made me more happy. I created it in half hour, a week before Greninja went to the suspect test. It uses some very cheap and standard strategies, but they work.​

This is a ORAS RMT. I'm dumb and forgot to change the tag.
EDIT: Forgot to say before: peaked 1500, before and after Greninja Suspect Test. Could be better, I know.

I believe that in the hands of a more skilled player, this team could reach greater goals than I did. The suspect test drop my win rate, since Greninja used to win a lot of matches for me. Can't find a perfect replacement, as nothing is so broken as it. ):

This is a team made by a newbie, but I hope it may help other beginners. I’ll add images and proper esthetic later, too lazy to do it now.
Well, enough talk. Let’s start with the team building process.

Hide

I started with Greninja because I was tired of being assfucked by him. Talonflame was a obvious choice, since I wanted a motherfucker core that could break everything.

Completing the offensive front, came M-Lopunny, a Pokémon that I loved since it mega evolution was released. Also because fuck you Gengar, that’s why.

To equilibrate the team, I made a cheap defensive core too. Rotom-W to check just everything, and then add Ferrothorn.

The last slot was used for cleaning hazards. Started with a healing wish/defog Latias, but Rotom-W and Mega Gyarados passed through my team with ease. Then, I add the mold breaker Excadrill.

And BOOM! I can’t use Greninja anymore. Tried Weavile, since it hits hard and I like its design. But the team lacked a special attacker. So, I switched to Keldeo.

To synthesize the play style: wall stuff with the defensive backbone and worn down potential threats the opposing team might have, abuse on Scrappy and Mold Breaker, then bring Talonflame/Keldeo to finish the weaken foes. As I said before, it’s a very standard team. The Pokés almost play by themselves, but this also means easy prediction, and lack of a surprise factor.

Before we start in-depth, I think it’s worth mentioning that I don’t know nothing about EVs, and that probably is the main problem of the team. I didn’t make calcs, and almost everything here was on Smogon dex or forums. I’d really appreciate some help, if needed.

THE TEAM:

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball Power Whip​

A obvious choice. In my opinion, it’s one of the most reliable Stealth Rock users around, has a great defensive typing. And is annoying as fuck. If I don’t see Magnezone, this is my lead almost everytime. It set rocks, and if I don’t predict a super effective attack, stays for tanking. Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet deals something around 28% of damage, which is damn good at early game. This Ferro is especially effective for taking U-turns and Brave Birds.

Protect and Leech seed are for stall. On the last slot, I used Gyro Ball. It’s an ok move, but I switched to Power Whip to deal better with Gyarados and Azumarill.

I try to keep Ferrothorn alive until my opponent’s defogger /spinner is alive. After, I just send it to take random hits to inflict recoil damage/stall. Since it almost never takes an important role in mid/late game, I use it to absorb WillOWisps too. If you want more of his presence, Leftovers can be used. For a surprise factor, Eject Button. Saw it on a guy that made a RTM of a sandstorm team (I don’t remember the name, sry bro).

EVs are a suggestion of Riahi. With those, Ferro can deal with both physical and specil attacks.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split​

THIS GUY IS A LITTLE MOTHERFUCKER AND I HATE HIM MY GOD. Yea, same Rotom-W that everybody uses and every single player faces every day. It burns physical threats, then Volt Switch. I really don’t know what to say about it. Just too common. Walls a lot of shit. Helps me dealing with Azumarill and M-Gyarados, if can burn it. EVs are those to guarantee outspeed over Jolly Azumarill).

Excadrill @ Choice Scarf Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head​

A great support, in general. Good synergy with Rotom, that switches in when I see earthquakes coming. He’s on the team for three reasons: First, to spin. In my opinion, he is one of the best, since its fast as fuck.

Second, because of Mold Breaker. Without Excadrill, I have huge problems with the omnipresent Rotom-W. Just Earthquake it. Other things that Levitate are also hit, of course. Gengar and Lati@s, for instance.

I was using a Choice Scarf set to outspeed those threads, but spinning is more useful. As Celticpride said, being locked in a Rapid Spin sucks. So, now it runs Air Balloon. I believe Choice Scarf Excadrill is still reliable, but not as a spinner. It's up to you.

And third: to check fairies. Clefables and Gardevoirs (and others) put a lot of pressure, since I have two weaknesses to it. Without Greninja’s Gunk Shot, I need Excadrill to do the job properly.

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Substitute
- Return
- Baton Pass Fake out​

Now things get interesting. Lopunny is one of the main attackers of the team. Substitute and Baton Pass are quite unexpected, I guess, and it opens a lot of matchups. Due to the raw power it has, it’s not that hard to get a sub.

Then, depending on the match, I start spamming HJK (just need to be aware of protect) or Returns till the Substitute is over. If the opponent has something that can kill Loppuny, I Baton Pass the sub. The favorite team mates to receive it are Keldeo and Talonflame, because they are very frail and can keep the sweep. Since Keldeo runs Substitute now, the 4th slot can be something better. Fake Out is used to for free flinch and 100% sure Mega Evolution.

I'm still considering Ice Punch for dragons and Landorus, but I'm not sure yet. I don't wanna get rid of Substitute, so it will be over Fake Out.

I’m just not sure about the Nature. It has 339 speed (or something like it) with Adamant. Jolly gives 405 speed to it. I don’t care about the drop, to be sincere. Both are viable, I think.

Was searching for the image, and saw how people is sick. NSFW

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Tailwind​

Maybe the main star of the team, along with M-Lopunny. Unfortunately, too frail. In 99% of the match, I do just two moves with Talon:

1 – In the early game, switch to it and immediately U-turn, just to scout.

2 – In mid/late game, spam Brave Birds to wreck the other team.

There is no secret about this set. Just wait till the checks/counters are gone, and start the killing. It has a Choice Band because I generally use it on the end of matches. Sharp Beak and a Bulk Up/Swords Dance set is also an option. Tailwind is here in case I want to sacrifice it.

Keldeo @ Life Orb Leftovers
Ability:Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Naive Timid Nature
- Secret Sword
– Scald
– Icy Wind Substitute
– Hidden Power Electric Calm Mind
​

Greninja wannabe. ): Keldeo is the first thing I thought to replace the ninja frog. It’s ok , but Greninja is a lot better MAN I MISS U )))): . Let it go.

Hydro Pump would be good for raw power, but Keldeo is blind and always misses it. Scald does the job and has the burn chance that is really appreciated. Icy Wind specifically for Lando-T and Lati@s, while HP Electric hits Azumarill harder.

I'm running a complete different set now as a suggestion of Geneswept. It can hit harder now, although it doesn't have the coverage I'm looking for. Still worth.

Keldeo is the only Pokémon I feel like changing for another one. And the thing that most annoy me: JUSTIFIED IS JUST FUCKING USELESS.

I considered Mega-Alakazam for its place. But for this, I would need to sack M-Lopunny, which I don’t think it would be nice. What do you guys think?

Do you have a better idea for this slot? I want a special attacker with good coverage. If it can’t do a role similar to Greninja, please let me know, and help me with changes on team mates, if necessary.

EDIT: More details on the threat list.

Hide

I just don't know what to when I see Zard Y, if I can not pressure it with SR. Oftenly something dies in order do kill it. Or I need to Tailwind with Talonflame (and this means it will be killed or weakened), or I need to left something else to die to revenge kill. Nothing is a safe switch, since air slash is super effective against Keldeo and M-Lopunny, fire attacks hit hard Excadrill and Ferrothorn, and Solar Beam kills Rotom-W before Hydro Pump can do something. Things get worse if it's a lead.

M-Gyarados, specially the ones that run substitute, can be very annoying. Fortunately, with Keldeo's Secret Sword and Power Whip, isn't so much annoying anymore. But if I let it use 1 DD, things start to get out of control.

Other Pokés that relies on setup can also ruin me. I don't have a fairy attack to threaten the popular M-Sableye, for example, and I just have to watch it getting powerfull. Neither a strong dark/electric attack to stop Mega Slowbro. I don't use Toxic too, so if it starts using Calm Minds, that usually gg.

Fairies put a lot of work too, since the only effective attack I have is Excadrill's Iron Head (since he is a scarfed, he is frequently locked in other move when they come). Also, Keldeo and M-Lopunny are weak to it. Talonflame is frail and isn't a good answer too. Clefable and Gardevoir can bring troubles to Ferrothorn too, since it usully carries Flamethrower and Focs Blast.

Don't know if there are other threats. If you see something that can ruin the team, please tell me!

To finish it, importable below. I would feel very happy if you use the team on the ladder and come here to tell what do you think. :3

Hide

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword

Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Swords Dance

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Return
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpD / 44 Spe
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Good morning (7am here in Brazil) and have an awesome 2015. <3

 

[Geneswept]

If you're looking for a change in keldeo I'd advise sub CM, keldeo. Here's the set:

Hide

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword

 

[Pent]

If you're looking for a change in keldeo I'd advise sub CM, keldeo. Here's the set:

Hide

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Power

Don't you mean Secret Sword?

 

[Riahi]

This is a really soild looking team, I will try to test it later today and let you know.
Btw Zard Y is a threat to almost every team lol

Edit I suggest a different EV spread for Ferrothorn to help with the overall bulk

Hide

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Pretty Standard

 

[Geneswept]

Don't you mean Secret Sword?

Fixed. Tab complete on teambuilder sucks major ass lmao

 

[n0000000b]

If you're looking for a change in keldeo I'd advise sub CM, keldeo. Here's the set:

Hide

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Secret Sword

Hi! I'll try this set later.
I'm looking for a change in the set, or maybe a change of pokémon at all. :)
Thank you!

This is a really soild looking team, I will try to test it later today and let you know.
Btw Zard Y is a threat to almost every team lol

Edit I suggest a different EV spread for Ferrothorn to help with the overall bulk

Hide

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Pretty Standard

Thanks! Going to try it. With this spread, Ferro can still take physical hits with (almost) same ease as it does?

 

[Riahi]

Hi! I'll try this set later.
I'm looking for a change in the set, or maybe a change of pokémon at all. :)
Thank you!



Thanks! Going to try it. With this spread, Ferro can still take physical hits with (almost) same ease as it does?

I played few games with the team. I really like.
The team struggles against Keldeo but you can play around it.

Here are some sets you could try.

Ferrothorn:

Hide

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Ferrothorn can take hits from both sides really well. Max defense is unnecessary since it already has a high defense stat, that base 116 sp.def would go to waste.

I changed Keldeo's Life orb with E-Belt but that's just a preference.

Lopunny:

Hide

Sub+BP is so good, I used different variants.

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Baton Pass/Fake out
- Drain Punch
- Return

The Jolly nature allows you to outspeed more things and speed tie with M-Manectric, since you have Sub+BP I think that's the better nature. Otherwise you can use Fake out instead of BP and keep the Adamant nature.

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Drain Punch
- Return

This is a a bulkier set I came up with, I don't know if that's on the strategy dex already.
176 speed to outspeed Weavile (Which isn't common). Not sure how viable this set is.

 

[n0000000b]

I played few games with the team. I really like.
The team struggles against Keldeo but you can play around it.

Here are some sets you could try.

Ferrothorn:

Hide

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip

Ferrothorn can take hits from both sides really well. Max defense is unnecessary since it already has a high defense stat, that base 116 sp.def would go to waste.

I changed Keldeo's Life orb with E-Belt but that's just a preference.

Lopunny:

Hide

Sub+BP is so good, I used different variants.

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Baton Pass/Fake out
- Drain Punch
- Return

The Jolly nature allows you to outspeed more things and speed tie with M-Manectric, since you have Sub+BP I think that's the better nature. Otherwise you can use Fake out instead of BP and keep the Adamant nature.

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Drain Punch
- Return

This is a a bulkier set I came up with, I don't know if that's on the strategy dex already.
176 speed to outspeed Weavile (Which isn't common). Not sure how viable this set is.

Going to try those on Lopunny. I used a set with Fake out/DP before... Think I'll keep HJK, but add the Fake out on BP slot.

I didn't realize difficulties against Keldeo. Why is it hard, and how you played against?

Thanks for the rate, also. :]

 

[Riahi]

Going to try those on Lopunny. I used a set with Fake out/DP before... Think I'll keep HJK, but add the Fake out on BP slot.

I didn't realize difficulties against Keldeo. Why is it hard, and how you played against?

Thanks for the rate, also. :]

With a bit of aggressive play.
You could try Latios/as instead of Excadrill as keldeo check and defogger.

 

[n0000000b]

With a bit of aggressive play.
You could try Latios/as instead of Excadrill as keldeo check and defogger.

Don't feel like doing it, since it would add another Fairy Weakness, and I would struggle against Rotom-W and Gyarados aswell.

Tried the CM+Sub set on Keldeo, and it works wonderfully. But without Icy wind, I don't have anything super effective against Landorus-T. Will it be a problem?
I could try Ice Punch on M-Lopunny, but I can't change any of it moves. Anyway, since Keldeo already runs substitute, Fake out > Baton Pass.

 

[Celticpride]

Nice team! I feel like SD Talonflame would be an upgrade to your team over CB Talonflame. CB Talonflame can be worn down easier, lacks reliable recovery, and is also lacking in bulk. While you do lose scouting, you gain it back in bulk, recovery, and sweeping ability. I would also change Choice Scarf to an Air Balloon on Excadrill, because spinning with a Choice Scarf literally drops any momentum you gain. Another option is a Lum Berry, allowing you to get by some things that would otherwise burn it, namely Rotom-W. If you are using Rotom to check Azumarill and Gyarados, I would go with a physically defensive spread over a specially defensive spread. That helps it check what you want it to check. Final tweak, if you are ditching Baton Pass on Lopunny, I would also change Sub to Ice Punch, to hit Landorus-T. I would also run Jolly over Adamant. There's a high difference between the speeds, including Adamant Aerodactyl and Beedrill, Modest Alakazam and Sceptile, Weavile, Scarf Heatran, Greninja, Tornadus-T, and a few others.

sets

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Excadrill @ Air Balloon / Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Return
- Fake out

 

[n0000000b]

Nice team! I feel like SD Talonflame would be an upgrade to your team over CB Talonflame. CB Talonflame can be worn down easier, lacks reliable recovery, and is also lacking in bulk. While you do lose scouting, you gain it back in bulk, recovery, and sweeping ability. I would also change Choice Scarf to an Air Balloon on Excadrill, because spinning with a Choice Scarf literally drops any momentum you gain. Another option is a Lum Berry, allowing you to get by some things that would otherwise burn it, namely Rotom-W. If you are using Rotom to check Azumarill and Gyarados, I would go with a physically defensive spread over a specially defensive spread. That helps it check what you want it to check. Final tweak, if you are ditching Baton Pass on Lopunny, I would also change Sub to Ice Punch, to hit Landorus-T. I would also run Jolly over Adamant. There's a high difference between the speeds, including Adamant Aerodactyl and Beedrill, Modest Alakazam and Sceptile, Weavile, Scarf Heatran, Greninja, Tornadus-T, and a few others.

sets

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Excadrill @ Air Balloon / Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin
- Iron Head

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Ice Punch
- Return
- Fake out

First of all, thanks, and great picture. :)
I never thought about the momentum on the scarf spinner, and you are absolutely right about it. Going to change it later for a baloon.

As the other sets you suggested: I'm not sure about SD Talonflame. I know the set is completely viable, but I'm kinda dumb and don't know when take a hit and set up and when not do it. I can give it a try as soon as I get more experience on the game. Also, with CB set, I try to be the most careful possible and try to use it as my "last resource", when I'm sure that Brave Bird can beat everything left. Is doing fine by now.

Rotom-W is used to deal with Gyarados and Rotom-W due to the typing combination. I get your point, but I like Ferrothorn being the physical wall. I mean, his set and items and stuff are purely proposed for he being hit. That's why Rotom-W is running a SpDef set. With another Def. focused Pokémon, I feel like it's kinda redundant... Not sure if I'm clear because of my english, but is something like: I enjoy having one physical (ferro) and one special wall and don't see the roles inverting right now.

About M-Lopunny: I fckng enjoy seeing SubToxic Gliscor failing on stall attempts. But since Ice Punch does the job on him (and on Lati@s and Lando-T), I'll try it soon.

 

[Riahi]

Don't feel like doing it, since it would add another Fairy Weakness, and I would struggle against Rotom-W and Gyarados aswell.

Tried the CM+Sub set on Keldeo, and it works wonderfully. But without Icy wind, I don't have anything super effective against Landorus-T. Will it be a problem?
I could try Ice Punch on M-Lopunny, but I can't change any of it moves. Anyway, since Keldeo already runs substitute, Fake out > Baton Pass.

I see, then as Celticpride said an Air balloon on Excadrill would fit really well instead of the Choice scarf. You dont always need a scarfer especially when you have a Talonflame in the back. [:

 

[n0000000b]

Completely Agreed, Riahi . Now I just realized something: with Choice Scarf, I can use Rock Slide and overspeed Zard Y. But don't think this worth keeping CS. Just thought that'd be good to mention it.

 

[Riahi]

That's true but you have Talonflame and Lopunny. Scarf Drill isn't the most reliable spinner, it's not a bad choice but I feel like Air balloon would fit in the team better. Did you test it already? Do you prefer that or CS?

 

[n0000000b]

Right now I'm using a all-atacker Lopunny and a Air Ballon Excadrill. I'm at low ladder at the moment, so I can't say how effective the changes are... The team is more versatile now, but the results are more or less the same of the start of the team (CM Keldeo was the most perceptive positive change, I think).
Excadrill is doing fine with the balloon. I miss the surprise of outspeed and kill Latios with Earthquake, but in overall, h's better without Scarf.




And just to know: anyone else tried the team? Thread is almost like a chat between me and Riahi, lel

 

[n0000000b]

Bump.

No one else has nothing more to say?