Surely having a lure specially designed to take out a specific threat to your team puts you at a disadvantage when facing a team that does not have that threat?
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Other A Guide to Lures in OU
- Thread starter doughboy
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The key to a good lure is making one that isn't useless outside of luring things - that's why good lures are quite hard to come by, and the successful ones are usually somewhat known by experienced players. A great example of a successful lure is Hidden Power Flying on Specs or Life Orb Keldeo, used to lure in and attack Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss. Thanks to Keldeo's awesome STABs, it easily fits HP Flying into its moveset, and it's not at a disadvantage against most teams because most of the time it gets by just fine with Hydro Pump, Sacred Sword, and Scald.
Another good example of a successful lure is Heat Wave Zapdos. Again, it's something that experienced players will look out for, but it allows Zapdos to handle a Bisharp attempting to steal a Defiant boost over a predicted Defog. Zapdos can afford to give up that moveslot - all it really needs is Roost, Defog, and Thunderbolt - and by running Heat Wave it allows itself to snipe a situational yet important target.
I personally run HP Fire on all my greninja sets. I have no idea how common this is, I got back into the game after a year, but its hilarious when I predict the ferrothorn switch in and hit him in the face with stab HP fire
I also run a +SpD -Speed ferrothorn with 252 in HP and SpD and 4 in attack, with Gyro Ball, Curse, Leech Seed, and Ingrain with lefties. It's probably not the most practical, but has decent recovery, and hits really hard. I'll usually try to lure out the opponent fire types and take them out, then send in ferrothorn and wreck stuff. I've even gotten a ferrothorn sweep once but I guess my opponent was pretty dumb as he had terrible move sets, including HP fire on zapdos. It probably wasn't even 60 bp, it did around 40% to ferrothorn before I ohkoed it
I also run a +SpD -Speed ferrothorn with 252 in HP and SpD and 4 in attack, with Gyro Ball, Curse, Leech Seed, and Ingrain with lefties. It's probably not the most practical, but has decent recovery, and hits really hard. I'll usually try to lure out the opponent fire types and take them out, then send in ferrothorn and wreck stuff. I've even gotten a ferrothorn sweep once but I guess my opponent was pretty dumb as he had terrible move sets, including HP fire on zapdos. It probably wasn't even 60 bp, it did around 40% to ferrothorn before I ohkoed it
HP Fire is extremely common now, and it's too common to be a lure, it's more of a coverage move.
Not really a lure either :/
Just another coverage move, albeit not used as much as other ones.
Grass Knot hits just as hard as HP Grass. I suppose if you really hate Rotom-W and do not want to run into Iron Barbs/Rock Helmet, but Grass Knot hits Hippowdon and Tyranitar hard without missing Hydro Pump and/hard changing yourself to the vulnerable Ice type (against Bullet Punch).
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By my definition of "lure", it does not merely take advantage of information asymmetry (the mere identity of whatever coverage moves it may run), but it is run so infrequently that most competent players would not be wary of it. Now using that definition, is HP Flying really a "lure" on Keldeo or Heat Wave on Zapdos? I thought those are fairly common moves, although it is more of a lure on Zapdos because Heat Wave wouldn't hit anything else hard (except Scizor) since it is being used on defensive Pokemon?
A lure would be something like Aerial Ace on Mega Scizor. It can be a surprise against most grass types, Keldeo (if at full health and takes its attack), and Mega Heracross, while retaining its ability to use Aerial Ace while chaining it with Bullet Punch. Knock Off is better in most cases, but having something else to deal with Mega Venusaur that is not expected may be good.
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 202-238 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 150-178 (41.2 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(works well against specially defensive, but most players use a physically defensive spread so it is not a good lure for Venusaur.)
Low Kick Bisharp is a nice "lure" for a player trying to tank a Knock Off from Bisharp, and works well against other Bisharp. It would be a surprising gambit (etymologically means to "trip up") to send in Bisharp against another Bisharp or Heatran (with the expectation that your Bisharp would outspeed Heatran). Against Ferrothorn, Knock Off is better, unless Ferrothorn is in the in the narrow range where Low Kick would KO and Knock Off wouldn't.
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An infrequently used coverage move is by (my) definition, a lure. The questions are whether the opportunity cost of using the move are too high to warrant its use and the efficacy of the move against its target.
I would argue the contrary; HP Grass/Grass Knot (Grass Knot is better, just FYI) Greninja fits the definition of a lure quite well. It's really only used to take out one Pokemon - that being Azumarill, and to a lesser extent Rotom-W - but it does its job admirably, considering that Azumarill hard-checks any Greninja that's not running the move. And when it comes down to it, a lure is really just a Pokemon that has a less-popular coverage move that hits a specific target or group of targets that is commonly a first response to said Pokemon.
Just because it's somewhat common doesn't mean it's not a lure - in fact, it's indicative of it being a great and useful lure. Sets such as Thunder Punch Dragonite, Hidden Power Ice Landorus-I, Fire Blast Tyranitar/Garchomp, Salac Berry Talonflame, and HP Flying Keldeo are all commonplace, but they still carry out the duties of a lure - they aim to draw the opponent into making a risky move and catching them off-guard.
This is a lure set which I have been trying on my new team for the purpose of luring and destroying stuff, and has been working wonderfully to its purpose.
Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe (use 232/244/32 if using Earth Power)
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Earth Power
- Recover
Considering the most common set are the defensive sets, with either Giga Drain or Psychic, there are quite a number of stuff that likes to come in. Some of the most common things that likes to come in on Celebi are all wrecked by one of its coverage moves.
Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe (use 232/244/32 if using Earth Power)
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Earth Power
- Recover
Considering the most common set are the defensive sets, with either Giga Drain or Psychic, there are quite a number of stuff that likes to come in. Some of the most common things that likes to come in on Celebi are all wrecked by one of its coverage moves.
- Leaf Storm is crazy powerful. It OHKOs AV Azumarill and Scarf-Tar after SR; Excadril, Garchomp, Landorus, Manectric are cleanly OHKOed after SR while being unable to OHKO Celebi first. In fact, almost every offensive mon that it hits neutral, will just straight up die; and even some resists like Bisharp takes massive damage coming in. Clefable and CroCune that normally sets up on defensive Celebi are 2HKOed even if they are at +1 when you come in, assuming they choose to CM instead of healing up.
- Switches to Heatran are pretty damn obvious so you can almost always nail one with Earth Power on the switch. Even SDef ones are OHKOed 75% of the time with rocks up. Before revealing Earth Power, Bisharp would rarely go for Sucker Punch, where Celebi outspeeds and OHKOs easily. SDef Zard X is pretty screwed by EP if it does not have a fire STAB (which most don't).
- Hidden Power [Fire] is mainly for Scizor and Ferrothorn; CBScizor is OHKOed cleanly, whereas Ferrothorn gets 2HKOed and cannot do anything in return.
- Thunder Wave is always handy to buy turns for Recover, and eases prediction against switches if the opponent lack a para absorber.
GK / HP Grass Greninja used to be a lure in addition to being a great all out attacker in general. Now it's not a lure because everyone expects it and scouts for it, it became a standard option that started as a luring option, and because it was useful besides the luring aspect by covering very important threats, it became standard. For the same reason FB Garchomp is not a lure, everybody expects it. About HP Flying Specs Keldeo, i am not sure, i would argue it's not a luring move it's just that when the opponent's best answer to Keldeo is Mega Venusaur they will go to it even with the fear of a possible HP Flying because they don't have something to switch into its STABs.
Salac Berry Talonflame is a very effective lure though, because it's very rare and most people don't expect it.
My absolute favorite lure before everyone knew about it was Natural Gift Talonflame
Talonflame @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Natural Gift
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
Just imagining people seeing me SD on their Rotom-W switch in and thinking they outplayed me only to get hit with this obscure attack was hilarious. The funny thing is, this shit actually swept games for me. MULTIPLE games. It's the only gimmicky set that I've used that actually worked. Then people found out about the set and would switch out on my Natural Gift when I SD'ed *sigh*. Oh well, still really fun to use for the occasional time where you catch a TTar or Rotom
Talonflame @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Natural Gift
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
Just imagining people seeing me SD on their Rotom-W switch in and thinking they outplayed me only to get hit with this obscure attack was hilarious. The funny thing is, this shit actually swept games for me. MULTIPLE games. It's the only gimmicky set that I've used that actually worked. Then people found out about the set and would switch out on my Natural Gift when I SD'ed *sigh*. Oh well, still really fun to use for the occasional time where you catch a TTar or Rotom
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Atk
Quiet Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power Fire
- Earthquake
Brings in Heatran, only to face a EQ to the face. I chose a quiet nature so I don't lose bulk unlike mild or rash. This can also help with SpDef Scizor in the rain and other steels that HP Fire won't cover.
see the problem with this set is the lack of recovery, which will really sting in handling mons like azu/Keld repeatedly. i'd just run zone and synth > hp fire.
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 232 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Atk
Quiet Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power Fire
- Earthquake
Brings in Heatran, only to face a EQ to the face. I chose a quiet nature so I don't lose bulk unlike mild or rash. This can also help with SpDef Scizor in the rain and other steels that HP Fire won't cover.
Giga drain>water typing?
that's not the point, the opponent will switch and you'll still have a weakened ass venusaur. giga is not enough.
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