A Moderately Successful Team

[PKMN Breeder Stephen]

Introduction


Hello, this is not only my first post, but also my first competitive team. I have lurked for quite some time on the forums, and having gained inspiration from countless hours of browsing the analysis pages; RMTs; and War Stories, I came up with my team. I have had reasonable success with this team and believe the Pokemon to have good synergy with one another. I would like to know what people think of the team, and where any improvements can be made. Thanks in advance.


Team Overview

In Depth

Heatran (F) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+ Spe, -Atk)
- Magma Storm
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power Ice
- Stealth Rock

More often than not, I lead with Heatran, and depending on the opponent’s first choice, I will 99% of the time attempt to set-up Stealth Rock. The moves on this may appear questionable at first, however, they have been chosen with specific purposes in mind. Magma Storm, when it doesn’t miss, has the ability to not only trap the opponent, but has also paid off countless times when facing SSS (Shell Smash + Sash) Cloysters. Magma Storm not only has the power of Fire Blast, but the recurring damage can wear down some of Heatran’s typical counters, allowing for another member of the team to pick them off. Flash Cannon is for the 2/3HKO on Tyranitar leads, and is a fairly strong and reliable move when I can’t afford a miss. Hidden Power Ice is a silver bullet to a select few Pokemon that can give this team problems, namely Gliscor, which, with its slow and bulky EV spread is outpaced by Heatran. The EVs on this are simple but seem effective, however I have been wondering as to whether an alternative spread would be more beneficial? Heatran also makes up one third of my F / W / G core, as well as synergising almost perfectly with both Latias and Celebi.

Synergy

Water: Vaporeon, Celebi, Latias
Fighting: Gengar, Celebi, Latias
Ground: Gengar, Latias, Celebi

Celebi @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe
Modest Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Thunder Wave
- Recover / U-Turn
- Heal Bell

Celebi serves as an excellent partner to Heatran as previously mentioned, but also supports the rest of the team with Heal Bell. Leaf Storm, coming from Celebi’s respectable Special Attack, and factoring in Life Orb, can put serious pressure on anything not resistant. The Sp. Attack drop is consequential as more often than not, Celebi’s job is to come in, heal its peers of any status, and then leave. Given the prevalence of Rotom-W in OU, Celebi’s ability to take both of its STAB moves make it a fine switch in to the former. Celebi’s EVs are those of the “Tinkerbell” set, which enables Celebi to maintain massive fire power, whilst also keeping a respectable amount of bulk. Thunder Wave can cripple most offensive and defensive Pokemon, and alleviates the pressure on the slower members of the teams. Recover helps to remedy the damage done by not only the attacks of my opponent's, but also Life Orb recoil. However, I recently thought of the potential utility of U-Turn, which enables Celebi to evade any potential Pursuits that may threaten it. Furthermore, as Celebi doesn't find itself draining its health too rapidly as it generally only pulls off one Leaf Storm before switching to safety, U-Turn over Recovery would mean that Celebi would not need to heal itself cause Vaporeon's wishes are quite sufficient. But, I am definitely unsure of how the loss of Recover would effect Celebi, it would definitely need testing.

Synergy

Fire: Heatran, Latias, Vaporeon
Flying: Heatran
Bug: Heatran, Gengar
Dark: Heatran
Ice: Heatran, Vaporeon
Dark: Heatran
Ghost: Heatran
Poison: Heatran, Mamoswine

Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Roar / Ice Beam

The final component of my F / W / G core, Vaporeon lends itself to a variety of roles on this team. Vaporeon’s ability to survive Super Effective hits is simply phenomenal. Vaporeon can survive Volt Switches from the likes of Choice Rotom-W and Thunderbolts from Bulky Zapdos. I can generally afford to make a mis-prediction when Vaporeon is out, as its fantastic bulk makes it somewhat difficult to 2HKO. With maximum EV investment in Defense and HP, Vaporeon’s less than impressive psychical bulk is somewhat rectified, whilst also granting Vaporeon the ability to produce a fantastically large Wish, which can restore Vaporeon or her teammates. Protect has a multitude of uses on Vaporeon, providing her with the ability to scout, gain Leftover / Wish recovery, stall out PP and potential burn damage, or even turns of Trick Room if need be. Scald’s handy Burn rate helps in just about most situations, save for the unfortunate burning of a Guts user, and given Vaporeon’s respectable Special Attack, can keep the pressure on physical walls such as Gliscor, Hippowdon, Skarmory etcetera. Vaporeon and Celebi make for an effective combination with their bulk and healing abilities, but they also work in tandem to cripple just about all of the physically offensives threats in the Standard Tier, with their status inducing moves. I shall be honest, I was not a huge fan of the concept of Roar, but it has proven useful on occasion against specific targets, and combined with Stealth Rocks, can chip away at my opponents’ team. I cannot help but wonder whether Vaporeon would appreciate Ice Beam more, given the absence of it elsewhere on my team and the prevalence of dragons.

Synergy

Electric: Latias, Celebi, Mamoswine
Grass: Heatran, Celebi, Latias, Gengar

Gengar (F) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Disable

Smogon calls this ‘one of Gengar’s deadliest sets', and I have to agree. The combination of Substitute and Disable can shut down a lot of would be counters, and combined with the impressive neutral coverage of Shadow Ball and Focus Blast, Gengar can make quite an impact on battle. Gengar can come in on the Fighting and Ground attacks aimed at Heatran with impunity. The EVs for this are pretty self-explanatory; maximum Special Attack and Speed investment, as that is the only place the EVs should go. Y
Unfortunately, Gengar’s Ghost typing does not provide any respite from the Super Effective Dark and Ghost attacks that can wound Latias and Celebi, however she does have the ability to take Bug attacks relatively well, but generally Gengar needs to come in on a KO or using one of its resistances.

Synergy
Psychic: Latias, Celebi, Heatran
Dark: Heatran
Ghost: Heatran

Mamoswine(M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Rest

Mamoswine was suggested to me by sandstreamftw, and I have to say I am very impressed with it. All round he is a fantastic Pokemon, considering his great Base Stat distribution and typing. He also grants Vaporeon a safe go to for Electric-Type attacks, something can handle, but doesn't always want to, as Electric and Ice so often go hand in hand. His fantastic priority move has proved crucial for me at times in picking off dragons handily. Mamoswine's role as Dragon-Type slayer is made easier with Heatran's Stealth Rocks on the field. Latios, Dragonite and a host of other Pokemon can be threatened by Mamoswine. With Expert Belt, people will often forget that I aren't locked and swap a Flying-Type / Levitate Pokemon on a predicted Earthquake, and then I'll proceed to Smack them with a Super Effective move. Stone Edge, although unreliable, is unfortunately necessary. I considered a Jolly nature to get ahead of opposing Heatrans, but as most people run the Specially Defensive set, I do not think the extra speed is wholly necessary. Thanks to Celebi Rest can be a reliable form of Recovery for 'Swine, and gives him plenty of opportunity to score multiple KOs.
I was initially reluctant to remove Lucario, but I think Mamoswine is overall, more of a team player. 'Swine just seems to knit the group together that much more, making for a tighter, more effective team. Mamoswine's priority makes up for the loss of ExtremeSpeed in scenarios when priority is imperative.


Synergy

Fire: Heatran, Vaporeon, Latias
Fighting: Gengar, Celebi, Latias
Water: Vaporeon, Latias, Celebi
Grass: Celebi, Heatran, Latias, Gengar

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Substitute

The final member of my team, and the true star of it. Latias is rapidly getting closer to stealing Dragonite’s status as my favourite Pokemon. This set, can potentially set up on, and outpace a large portion of the Metagame. Maximum investment in HP and Speed provide not only the necessary bulk Latias requires to stat up effectively, but also enables her to speed tie with any other Lati@s she may encounter. Several opponents have disconnected / forfeited after a few turns of Latias’ extremely annoying combination of Substitute and Recover, which frequently permits Latias to Calm Mind up slowly, but safely. Dragon Pulse is the obvious Mono-Attack of choice, given the fantastic neutral coverage it provides. Latias has single-handedly swept teams one she has a boosted up a few times. In my experience battling, Ferrothorn is the most common switch in to this, presumably expecting to absorb a Draco Meteor and Leech Seed / Thunder Wave in return. However, once Latias has a Substitute up, she can generally stall out Gyro Ball / Power Whip, and with a little prediction, can gain multiple Calm Mind boosts in the process.

Synergy

Dragon: Heatran
Ice: Heatran, Vaporeon
Dark: Heatran
Bug: Heatran


Previous Team Members

Swords Dance Lucario
Dual Screens Espeon
Bulky D.Dance Dragonite
Choice Band Scizor

 

[sandstreamftw]

its a solid team. The only changes i would make is have lucario be jolly so you won't be outsped by say other jolly lucarios. next replace vaporeon for jellicent. Jellicent can block fighting types and has acces to will-o-wisp taunt and recover and since you already have one levitater and ghost type replace gengar since hes redundant at this point with a mamoswine, he can use icicle crash and ice shard to take out those dragons like dragonite, and lastly give giga drain to celebi its more reliable and can recover the hp lost from life orb. aside from that good team.

 

[PKMN Breeder Stephen]

Thanks for the rate. About your suggestions, I really hate Jellicent... mostly because everyone and their mother's run it, but it does have a lot going for it I suppose. I have never used a Mamoswine, which set would you recommend? Choice Band/Life Orb? The recovery from Giga Drain seems redundant when one has access to Recover itself, also, the pure power of Leaf Storm is too tempting for me to drop I think. What are your thoughts on Psychic over Thunder Wave?

 

[Lemonade]

Opposing Swords Dance Lucario can be somewhat of a problem once Gengar is gone from the looks of things, as a +2 Close Combat or Ice Punch damages even your Vaporeon. This problem is very slight, however (Gengar has a pretty good chance of beating it, Vaporeon is fine as long as she doesn't switch in), so I would only recommend running Jolly on your Lucario to always beat other Adamants and have a small safety net against other Jolly variants. The decrease in power in the clutch situations you need it, IMO, is made up by the additional residual damage of Magma Storm (in a weird distanced-related way). Other than that, nice team!

 

[Cloud9.]

One major threat I see is rock polish terrakion. He can come in late game and KO all of your your whole team except vaporeon.
So I don't know, maybe SD scizor over
Just some food for thought.

 

[PKMN Breeder Stephen]

Thanks for the rates V0x and Cloud 9. I've been testing the team and due to the nature of my team, it likes to switch a lot and I find my self punished by entry hazards a lot. Should I get a spinner? Or would a simple Taunt be possible to stop Skarm/Thorn Spiking on me. I've also been testing Mamoswine and it really impresses me.
Also Cloud9, I used to use Choice Band Scizor instead of Lucario, so who should I replace to try him out?

 

[PKMN Breeder Stephen]

With the advice of sandstreamftw, I have made a change to the line-up of this team; Lucario is gone, and Mamoswine with in. Changes to the team are in the OP. I think overall Mamoswine works with the groups very well, granting an extra immunity for the team. Let me know what you think with regards to the new format of the team.

 

[blunder]

Nice Team you have here, But Magma Storm on Heatran is more of a double-edged Sword. There is Luck that you may hit it with its 75% accuracy if I recall correctly, but, if you miss, it could cost you your Heatran. Fire Blast is the way to go, but if you want to keep Magma Storm, You might want to try out Wide Lens

 

[Aichan]

Fire Blast is also bad on Heatran, as every attack move is, that does not have 100% accuracy. Go with Lava Plume (it also has a 30% burn chance to cripple opposing pokemon) The additional power Fire Blast has is not worth it due to lower accuracy and lower burn chance (because 10% burn never burns in reality so...) Go with Lava Plume.

 

[Moo]

Hey, I've got a few suggestions for your team.

First, definitely run Fire Blast on Heatran. It's its best move, as it has high power, and better accuracy than Magma Storm. Magma Storm isn't needed, because anything that you hit hard with a Fire-type attack will most likely die or be 2HKOed, and anything that switches into a Fire-type attack to take it will just take pathetic damage. Steel is awful typing to have, even with STAB, and you have to method of hitting opposing Heatran, which can switch in for free against you. Try Earth Power in place of it, as you will be able to it Heatran (and other Fire-types) and still have an attack against Tyranitar, even though you won't be hitting him hard either way.

That Mamoswine set looks pretty terrible. If you aren't using Life Orb on a Mamoswine, you're really doing it wrong. Life Orb gives you a power boost, which really is worth the recoil. Also, you have Wish support from Vaporeon, so you don't need to waste your time and a moveslot on Rest. Put Icicle Crash over it, because Mamoswine really needs it alongside Earthquake, because its powerful dual STAB combo is extremely effective. You only miss out on hitting Gyarados hard, but you have Stone Edge for that, which is otherwise completely useless. If you're looking for a replacement for Stone Edge, give Icicle Spear a try, as it can beat Substitute Pokemon (Breloom), and Multi Scale Dragonite.

Tyranitar and a combo of Rotom-W + Scizor can seriously hurt your team. To combat these threats, I suggest replacing Celebi with a Bulk Up Breloom.

Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 240 HP / 204 SDef / 64 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Bulk Up
- Seed Bomb
- Drain Punch

Breloom is great for stopping volt turn combos, and physical threats like Landorus and Tyranitar, which you're also quite weak to. Spore will stop your opponents momentum pretty easily, and Breloom can take a hit from Rotom-W thanks to the specially defensive EV spread. It can also outspeed and put Scizor to sleep, so it can stop the combo efficiently.

Good luck with the team, I hope I helped!

 

[PKMN Breeder Stephen]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I shall definitely do some testing of Fire Blast and Earth Power on Heatran, it makes sense I guess :)

And Moo, thanks for your in depth rate, its really good to see things you've missed. You're right, although Mamoswine is amazing, I do think Life Orb would make him all the more effective, and truthfully, I think I've only pulled off Rest & Heal Bell a couple of times, nice but not the most reliable strategy.

Furthermore, I'm really intrigued by your Breloom set, Breloom is a Pokemon I often overlook when considering a Team. That set looks pretty solid, and Sleep > Paralysis after all. Yeah one thing I thought this team was missing was another boosting sweeper, which seems to compliment Latias rather well. You're right when facing Landorus I generally have to rely on Vaporeon to take a pounding or sometimes get lucky, catching it with a Hidden Power Ice on the switch with Heatran. Celebi has proved quite disappointing of late, so I will look forward to play testing Breloom in his place.