A new generation of weather abuse

[SJCrew]

Bulbapedia lists "Heavy Rain" as the name for the weather effect we refer to as just Rain. Also, the Serebii article specifically states that it won't double speed on the turn Heavy Rain is summoned, which means you're not getting hit with Gyro Ball or something for insane damage the moment you set up.

 

[WarriorPrince]

Most of the speculation here is irrelevant. According to Serebii, Chlorophyll and Swift Swim no longer work in the Heavy Rain/ Clear Skies conditions brought about by Drizzle and Drought.

That means that Ninetails/ Politoed will still trigger abilities like Rain Dish and the water/ fire attack boost, but they won't increase anyone's speed.

http://serebii.net/abilitydex/swiftswim.shtml

lol. That has always been the description. It's been like that since Swift Swim was invented. It means you don't get the effects of Rain till the next turn.

 

[peng]

Everyone seems to be Hyping Weather Offense, but in my opinion Stall could get more interesting this Gen. Not only does Politoed get Drizzle, but Vaporeon and a few other Pokemon get Hydration, making them even more difficult to take down. I could see Rain-based stall getting popular, probably something like:

Forretress / Blissey / Mummy Pokemon (Desukan?) / Politoed / Vaporeon / Celebi

 

[haunter]

except that spin blocking will be likely no longer possible and that Lucario (just to name one of Gen IV best stall breakers) can easily 6-0 that team after a SD.

 

[ginganinja]

Yeah I think this Generation has really hampered Stalls abilities at the moment. Which is sad because even though i dislike stall I don't like seeing the demise of a playstyle. Anyway I can see Sand Storm becoming very popular with all the effects its giving.

 

[Myrrh]

Rain and Sunny day teams can now go defensive as well. With the eternal sun from Ninetales, pokemon like tangrowth and Leafeon with their leaf guard ability can protect them from status and also let them abuse rest for instant recovery. Similarly with Politoed, Lapras with hydration also gets to use the one-turn recovery in rest effectively and can work decently as a bulky water in the rain.

 

[oasis]

people want to make politoed and ninetails ubers , but the sand stream and snow warning user would still be free

hmmm

 

[peadawg14]

Vaporeon + Hydration means NO MORE TOXIC!!!!! Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bubbly]

Tangrowth is something I'm becoming really interested in now. Its got better physical bulk than Skarmory, and nice attack and special attack. It actually looks like being one of the best counters to Doryuuzu and friends in Sandstorm.

I'm not sure that stall is dead one way or the other. Before the inevitable bannings, it may suffer simply due to the ridiculous offensive pressures in the metagame. The 5th gen has introduced a fair number of potential stallbreakers (Sazando being the most hyped one) but things like that Steel/Grass type, should it learn some entry hazards, would be valuable additions to a team.
Personally, I can't really see the viability of SkarmBliss and similar continuing as a standalon walling duo.

 

[Dragonknight!]

I haven't read the thread, But im pretty sure weather effects will be the new core change. With swana's windstorm move, victini's fire platform, and more ability emphasis on weather, I'm willing to bet the change is weather.

 

[Ice-eyes]

I am so going to metagame against weather with this:

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Sand Stream
252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SpD
Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
Stone Edge
Crunch
Pursuit
Earthquake

Kerudio @ Swimming Goggles
Justice Heart
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Taunt
Calm Mind
Hydro Pump
Focus Blast

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

The thing is, people are still going to be in the mindset of previous generations, where weather wasn't so important, so I think the people who aren't used to the concept of weather being so common will be calling for it to be banned.

It's sort of like how people were whining about Pokes like Rhyperior, Roserade, Alakazam, etc. being UU. In previous generations, UU was deliberately made to be a lot weaker, so people just weren't used to the concept.

 

[Ice-eyes]

Shuckle, that's a valid point; however, some of us have played a lot of Ubers, where there is a lot of auto-weather, and that weather makes things like Kyogre, Ho-Oh, Kingdra, Palkia and presumably now Reshiram incredibly good.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Shuckle, that's a valid point; however, some of us have played a lot of Ubers, where there is a lot of auto-weather, and that weather makes things like Kyogre, Ho-Oh, Kingdra, Palkia and presumably now Reshiram incredibly good.

Yeah, that's true. The DPPt Uber players will be able to judge more objectively to start off with.

If every match since RBY had weather in, we'd just be used to it by now, so I think when we initially start playing Gen V, we should not go in with a mind-set of "Weather is strange", or "Sun shouldn't be popping up every other match" (Why not?).

I'll find it difficult to be honest, as I've got used to Sandstorm being everywhere, but not much else. It's just going to be part of Gen V's metagames. If weather does prove to be popular, we'll have to bear this in mind when building our teams, making sure our teams can function decently in all weather conditions.

 

[Aqueos]

Well dugtrio just got a much needed power boost. It might be ou again.

 

[Ace Emerald]

I think rain might be supreme just because it hits fire, ground, and rock for SE, almost all of them carry ice beam for grasses, and hits ice and steel for a STAB rain boosted neutral. SS isn't going anywhere because it will take a lot to shift T-tar from OU, and it won't be bad there, just maybe not as good as rain. Cloud Nine cannot reliably counter imo, but I am not suggesting weather is uncounterable. I think Politoad will become OU for usage alone, but Ninetails might have a solid home in UU. Of course, if there zre good sun cores, who knows, maybe Ninetails will be OU. I think weather will be more viable this gen then any other for sure. But a lot of winning with a weather team has to do with teambulding skills and prediction, and I can see well built Sun/SS teams destroying noobs with rain teams.

 

[GLS]

I've noticed one of Suns strengths is getting overlooked quite a bit. Synthesis/Moonlight/Morning Sun all healing for more on sun teams will be fairly nice for Cresselia or Umbreon. I mention Umbreon because of the potential ability to mean look your opponents auto-weather inducer and Baton Pass to something to KO it.

 

[Wishy]

Weather is gonna be an all out war for awhile, all about trumping your opponent and setting up your own field. Yes it might be hyper-offensive, but I think it's gonna take a lot more skill then just calling in weather and mindlessly sweeping. And then all the anti-weather teams that will probably spawn from that... I also think teams will have to pack Pokemon that can function in rain and without rain, and maybe things that can benefit from weather your opponent calls in (ie, Armaldo can work well in Rain with Swift Swim, but will also do well in sand).

Choice Scarf Politoed will be the best revenger on the likes of Doryuuzu and co.

 

[WolfricTheRed]

Well damn, 5th Gen actually made me make a Smogon account just to voice this idea.

Electrode's grin just got scarier.

Alright bear with me for a moment; with 5th Gen bringing both Aiming Mark and Drizzle Politoed, Electrode will probably become even more of a hassle due to the fact he also gets Aftermath now. Why? Well simply put the Trodeman only has to knock an opponent down by 75% of their health with his awesome STAB no-miss Thunder to render most counter-attacks moot, since Aftermath will take the other 25% if they try and take him down with a physical attack. Add to the fact he can still rely on Explosion with Ghosts no longer blocking it and he can now do some serious damage. His base 80 Special Attack might not be too bad considering the ramped up offense we'll no doubt see, but 140 Speed means he'll most likely hit twice on anything switching in to him, barring priority which is mostly physical. This will easily make him a huge threat to anything lacking Grass or a non-flying Dragon.

Here's just a basic setup I think we'll see until people start refining his EVs.

Electrode @ Aiming Mark
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk/ 48 SpA/ 208 Speed
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Thunder
- [M521] (The Electric U-Turn)
- Explosion
- HP Ground/Ice

Pretty straightforward I think. Thunder will hit hardest most of the time while [M521] will work as an excellent scouting move. Explosion lets him present his ever present present to your opponent while Aiming Mark makes it so Ghosts can't even soak it up. HP Ground is to hit Rock or Steel types that may try to switch into Explosion while Ice will let him deal with the new plethora of Dragons, but since this set will probably be more well seen on a Rain Team HP Ground will probably get used more.

 

[Surskit]

I think sandstorm will remain superior to the other forms of weather in gen 5 (this all refers to OU, really).
Firstly, sandstreamers are much more reliable in terms of their viability (tyranitar and hippowdon are simply tougher than politoed and ninetales). Tyranitar is incredibly common (and will be) on other types of teams, anyway, so your opponent can set up your weather for you in many instances. Also, tyranitar will easily beat ninetales and politoed, which will likely be common match-ups. Sp Def/HP EV investment will make tyranitar easily survive Surfs and Energy balls thrown at it, and the fact that tyranitar is slower than the other two makes its job even easier.
Also, the new abilities and abusers of sandstorm have made it incredibly versatile, stretching from hyper-offence (randorosu and friends) to heavy stall (shuckle and friends), making sandstorm teams more unpredictable. whereas rain teams will undoubtly be hyper-offence, and will be dealt with in the same manner each time, sandstorm teams will be able to work around individual pokemon with ease, and will be impossible to completely be prepared for. They could even be mixed teams, using stall pokemon such as shuckle and gliscor (now with poison heal for extra broken-ness :P) to support an unstoppable rankorosu or tyranitar sweep. I will definitely be using a sandstorm team first thing! :D

Well dugtrio just got a much needed power boost. It might be ou again.

If it is, it will only be in sandstorm. Shandeera will be the new trap-revenger, me thinks.

 

[Azlanslayer]

5th Gen really stops stall. With more powerful pokemon like Ononokusu and more, Stall is going to be (I dont know what to say). Anyways, Sandstorm dominates again and far more superior during this Gen. New abilties like Sand Throw and Sand Power makes Sandstorm even more scarier and versatile. If you don't know the effects, Sand Throw doubles speed in Sandstorm and Sand Power increase power of moves types: Rock, Steel, & Ground-type during Sandstorms. Pokemon like Doryuuzu (135 base atk) can be destroy a lot of teams (with support of course.) Special Defense boost and Sand veil also make sandstorm a powerful weather.

 

[SmileZ]

Everyone said Gen 4 would stop stall as well. I don't see it happening. I think weather based stall will definately start to take over though.

I think a team like -

Politoed @ focus sash/Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle

Vaporeon @ leftovers
Ability: Hydration

Tentacruel @ leftovers
Ability: Raindish

Breloom @ Choice band
Ability: Technician

Zapdos@ Leftovers
Ability: Lightning Rod

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp

Hmmm... Not enough entry hazards me thinks.. But the new abilities are really going to make things interesting.

 

[RacingFerret]

What I find interesting is that while sun and rain were always amazing, and now sand has been brought up to that power level with these new abilities and mon, hail has been left completely untouched. It's uses pale in comparison to the big three.

Lets look at the advantages of weathers:
Potential for doubling Spe (Sun/Rain/Sand)
Potential for status immunity (Sun/Rain)
Potential for increased Att (Sun)
Potential for increased SpD (Sun/Sand)
Potential for increased power of moves (Sun/Rain/Sand)
Potential for healing (Sun/Rain/Hail)
Potential for damage giving each turn (Sand/Hail)
Potential for increased evasion (Sand/Hail)
Boosted accuracy/less charge time for certain moves (Sun/Rain/Hail)

Hail was always the worst weather, as sand gave that SpD boost to rock types, and it has been left seemingly to rot. I wouldn't be suprised if it gets some of sand's new toys next gen or sooner. (The third game of the series' dragon is part ice. Would it be possible that they upgrade hail in that game, to make it different to the first two? Compatibility is a problem I know, but it is odd. Especially as the mascot of it will be part ice.)

 

[HiddenDragon72]

The new additions to take advantage of the weather looks promising.I think people will focus on rain and SS teams. Rain because water type has proven time and again how versatile it can be, and SS because of how it dominated gen IV, and from the looks of it SS will have a few new tricks to be wary of ;)

 

[Torchic]

Duggy can trap T-tar/Ninetales and Fireghost can trap Snower.
Go with shed shell on the weather controller would be helpful.