A possible new Hera counter, and it can even help set up.

SonicBlade

Heracross as we all know is a common OU sweeper who devastates many in the metagame. Many people come to believe that the only safe switch in is Gliscor as it can take Heras moves and laugh right back. But a new counter has risen to light and its name is Yanmega.


While at first appearence it doesn't seem to pose a threat, it can take down many Heras with ease. Most Heras you encounter will be the scarfing kind.To start off say you have something like Ttar out, obviously Hera is going to go for a CC and finish you off. Now you switch to yanmega on a CC which does 46-54 damage on a neutral nature in defense Yanmega.


Now the Hera user is thinking that one stone edge will end it. Now normally a Scarf Hera will still outspeed and KO you. Which is why you use protect first turn. Now that would be useless IF Yanmega's ability is overlooked. Speed Boost, an ability that is the core of many Ninjask. After one speed boost on a neutral speed nature and max speed evs and IVs mega you should out speed Scarfcross and use Air Slash for the OHKO. Air slash coming from a neutral nature sp attk Yanmega (thats 331 sp attk folks) deals 547-644 damage to a + sp defense natured Hera which is unlikely to come up anyway lol.

Its also not to bad at helping the team out also. After that speed boost it will most likely out speed anything your opponent brings out. Now it will most likely be something like Bliss or Rhyperior that they send to counter you. This is usually problematic but Yanmega can also learn Hypnosis before evolving.

Ahh hypnosis Gengar used to run rampant awhile back until it got an even larger special movepool this gen. Thats not to say Yanmega can't utilize it though.

Yanmega@ Wide Lens
Modest/Timid
252 sp attk 252 speed 6 hp

Air Slash
Bug Buzz
Hypnosis
Protect



Your standard 252/6 ev spread on most sweepers. Wide lens helps a bit with the accuracy problem on Hypnosis. Bug Buzz and Air slash are for STAB Hypnosis is for team support and protect is to trap Choice users and/or get a free speed boost. If you do manage to pull of Hypnosis you can usually switch to something else on your team and get one or two free turns of setup which can help immensly.
 
I kinda like the idea but would Yanmega get KOed when it is brought in? I know Close Combat does little damage as you said and if that doesn't do much i guess Meghorn doesn't do much then i guess you have to predict when a Stone edge is coming or not.I can't believe a stabed Close Combat does that little damage to a Yanmega
 
Wait...so Scarf hera uses CC, then tries to stone edge?

Ttar stands no chance what-so-ever against Hera, so why would a player expect it to be left in. The standard counters to hera are Gliz, Gengar, and now you think yanmega. Why would a skilled hera user not use stone edge, as it hits damage on all 3 [most notably genger and yanmega, not so much on Gliz].
 
I was using a yanmega with the same set as you (@lifeorb) got completely walled by a skarm, i cant imagine what blissey would do
 
Thats why you only try to sleep Blissey for a turn or two and switch to something else. And stone edge is pretty deadly which is why this set also takes alot of prediction.
 
While I agree with people that the strategy, as-is, is useless, I wonder if we could make a few adjustments to it to make it better...

First, lets get rid of that Wide Lens - it's useless, really, because the one move that benefits significantly from it, Hypnosis, goes from acc 70 to acc 77, which isn't that much of an improvement. Instead, I suggest going with a Charti Berry - it allows a once-off halving of a rock attack. With this, even with Stone Edge coming from a max-attack Heracross (no Life Orb or CB) and min HP min neutral Def Yanmega, it will be survived. Max HP, max-neutral Def Yanmega will survive a CB Stone Edge from Heracross (although you wouldn't really want to run that). To handle Life Orb Stone Edge, you can have max neutral Def, min HP.

Now, onto the moves. I think that U-turn would be a better choice than Bug Buzz, as Yanmega really doesn't want to be out there any longer than necessary, and I don't think Bug type moves are the way to go if you're trying to kill something. Alternatively, give it Toxic - that way, it uses Hypnosis on the first pokemon, then Toxic on the pokemon switching in, then Protect (unless you expect a switch-out, in which case you could Toxic again, or Air Slash).

So, if you're expecting Life Orb Heracross, here's the set I picture:
Yanmega @ Charti Berry
Speed Boost, Timid, 252 Def, 80 SpDef, 176 Speed
- Air Slash
- Toxic/U-turn
- Hypnosis
- Protect

176 Speed EVs gives you just enough to outspeed max-speed Hera, so with speed boost it outspeeds CS Hera, which would otherwise be a significant danger. With this setup, you have a 17% chance of surviving a CB Stone Edge on switch in. If you want to increase those odds, move the SpDef EVs into HP, which boosts it to a 54% chance (this is not accounting for Stone Edge's inaccuracy itself). You could also channel those SpDef EVs into SpAtt, which will boost Air Slash's strength by 6%, or into Speed so that you reach 317, which outspeeds most pokemon after the speed boost - although, it probably isn't necessary.
 
Iron Thorn said:
HOWEVER!

U-Turn is physical. With no Attack EVs and a Timid nature, it won't do poop.
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It's not supposed to.

U-turn is mostly about getting out of there quickly. It has the advantage of being able to do that last little bit of damage if the foe is at low HP, or to knock off a few HP on a pokemon that may have a Focus Sash (as it switches in, I mean).

Also, it gives Yanmega a decent attack against such pokemon as Alakazam (While avoiding a possible HP Fire - U-turn will do a healthy 65% minimum damage) or Weavile (avoids ice attacks (except Ice Shard), U-turn does just under 45% minimum damage).

But then, Toxic is probably the better option, anyway.
 
Aielyn said:
It's not supposed to.

U-turn is mostly about getting out of there quickly. It has the advantage of being able to do that last little bit of damage if the foe is at low HP, or to knock off a few HP on a pokemon that may have a Focus Sash (as it switches in, I mean).

Also, it gives Yanmega a decent attack against such pokemon as Alakazam (While avoiding a possible HP Fire - U-turn will do a healthy 65% minimum damage) or Weavile (avoids ice attacks (except Ice Shard), U-turn does just under 45% minimum damage).

But then, Toxic is probably the better option, anyway.
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What's the point? If he's been in a turn, he's already gotten a speed boost and should outspeed them both...and OHKO them easily with Bug Buzz. It may be frail, but 116 base special attack in tandem with speed boost is nothing to scoff at. It merely has the distinction of needing a Hidden Power to get through Skarm. Besides, if it sleeps Blissey, Bug Buzz is the one shot it has at brute forcing its way through the fat egg, if it comes to that. Double-status just seems a waste, considering there're much bulkier pokemon who can do that much better(like Venusaur.) Really, its major problem is its hideous typing. I wouldn't try and make it a Hera counter because that means it has to specialize itself so much it loses its point. It can get in on Hera(once, and only on CC, in most cases, because, once you do it and don't die, the surprise of Yanmega is gone) and menace it with Air Slash(whether or not Yanmega actually has Air Slash is moot, for the most part.) Then it goes about its business and hopefully you got rid of Blissey somehow....
 
Yanmega is not a Hera counter. It can't safely switch into Stone Edge if you mispredict. Hera's other 3 attacks do squat against Yanmega though, so there's a good chance you're switching in unharmed. Heracross won't EVER stay in front of Yanmega though, so after you get in and protect, use Toxic or Hypnosis to get the switch-in, imho.
 
But isn't a counter something that can switch in safely and scare it away?

Well, Yanmega can kinda switch in safely and it can really scare it away. So send in Blissey, then send out Yanmega, what are the chances of Heracross Stone Edging a Blissey.

After that, you send out Yanmega, Protect then either set up or destroy that Heracross.

Sweet thread.
 
If Yanmega is a Scarf Hera counter, than all ghosts are even better Scarf Hera counters. they can switch into a predicted Close Combat and then force a switch while they do whatever they want!

Yanmega can do well situationally against Heracross, but is not a true counter. also, you guys are forgetting Skarmory, who is also a viable Hera counter.
 
To be honest with you, I don't have many experience in online fighting (except for RBY...), but I would probably use Stone Edge if I where facing stuff like Tyranitar or Blissey. Close Combat would OHKO (not sure about Blissey), so I don't see the reason to have them around, hence why I would Stone Edge the incoming Pokemon.

A Rock resisting berry would be good though. And even if the Hera runs, you can predict Cross the next turn by sending something in that's fast and resists Stone Edge.

And I'm pretty sure that Close Combat deals a lot of damage to a Skarmory switch-in (albeit it with CB).
 
Close Combat from Heracross won't be liked by Skarmory, who takes around 50% from the move. I would say most ghosts like Mismagius / Gengar do very well as counters, immune to Earthquake and resistant to Megahorn
 
Gengar and Mismagius yeah are true counters. Gengar is immune to quake and CC, 4x resistant to Megahorn, neutral to Stone Edge, and OHKOs with Psychic. Mismagius does it all except resist Megahorn that well. I'd list Dusknoir too, but Dusknoir usually carries WoW, meaning a smart Hera can switch into a WoW and wreak some serious havoc with a Gust-boosted Megahorn.
 
stealth rock rapes yanmega. 46-54 damage doesnt seem like much, but when you switch in and half your health is gone it starts to get serious
 
Elminster12 said:
What's the point? If he's been in a turn, he's already gotten a speed boost and should outspeed them both...and OHKO them easily with Bug Buzz. It may be frail, but 116 base special attack in tandem with speed boost is nothing to scoff at. It merely has the distinction of needing a Hidden Power to get through Skarm. Besides, if it sleeps Blissey, Bug Buzz is the one shot it has at brute forcing its way through the fat egg, if it comes to that. Double-status just seems a waste, considering there're much bulkier pokemon who can do that much better(like Venusaur.) Really, its major problem is its hideous typing. I wouldn't try and make it a Hera counter because that means it has to specialize itself so much it loses its point. It can get in on Hera(once, and only on CC, in most cases, because, once you do it and don't die, the surprise of Yanmega is gone) and menace it with Air Slash(whether or not Yanmega actually has Air Slash is moot, for the most part.) Then it goes about its business and hopefully you got rid of Blissey somehow....
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If you're facing Blissey, then Bug Buzz isn't doing any more damage than U-turn. You put Blissey to sleep, then U-turn (doing a bit of damage), which then allows you to bring out a real Blissey-counter (assuming you're actually trying to take Blissey out). Bug Buzz, even at max SpA, does just barely over 20% damage at max damage (with 0 EV neutral SpDef) - what are the chances that Blissey stays asleep long enough to do anything? Meanwhile, if Blissey has max Def, U-turn still manages a respectable 18% max damage (plus you've just brought in a Blissey-counter onto a sleeping Blissey). If Blissey doesn't max out Defense, you'll do more damage with U-turn than with Bug Buzz.

And lets not lose sight of the fact that this Yanmega is intended for taking out Life Orb/CS Heracross, so we're probably not giving Yanmega max SpA (since it won't need it for Heracross, and there are better uses for it, like in Speed and Defense). I am sure that Venusaur would be a more efficient double-status than Yanmega, if that was all you were after. However, Venusaur can't do a double-status after taking out Heracross. With Yanmega, you can switch in on Heracross, kill it with Air Slash, use Hypnosis on whatever comes in after it's killed, then Toxic what they bring in after that, protect, then get the hell out of there. With one pokemon, you have not only taken out Heracross, you have put another pokemon to sleep, and poisoned/Toxic'd another one.

And it's not like this Yanmega can't take on other pokemon - he quite neatly takes out Sporepunch Breloom, for instance (it switches in to the Punch, of course).

Will this Yanmega take on Skarmory? Of course not - it will use U-turn and switch out before Skarmory has a chance to set up Spikes/SR, doing a measly 4% damage, but it's better than none.
 
me in that thing i did said:
Umbreon @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef -- Bold
Charm
Wish
Protect
Yawn

Let us crunch some numbers:

Adamant CB Close Combat/Megahorn after Charm: 55-64% -- Definate 2HKO.
Jolly CB Close Combat/Megahorn after Charm: 50-59% -- Possible 2HKO.
Adamant CS Close Combat/Megahorn after Charm: 37-43% -- 3HKO, very slim chance of 4HKO if it always does absolute minimum.

So there. Charms Hera on the switch in, Wishes, heals itself or something else. Yawns Hera on the switch in, lols at sleeping Hera, forces it to switch out. Wishes on the switch in, heals something.

That is 3 out of 4 motherfucker.
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Non-Hera bait. But Yanmega is ok too if you want to switch in I guess.
 
The biggest point of U-Turn is that it allows you to scout. You can see if your opponent is going to switch and what they switched to before bringing out your own guy.
 
Oh I was also going to suggest Focus sash as another item just incase you mispredict and come in on a SE which hopefully doesn't happen.
 
StarWizard said:
I'd list Dusknoir too, but Dusknoir usually carries WoW, meaning a smart Hera can switch into a WoW and wreak some serious havoc with a Gust-boosted Megahorn.
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It'll have to be immediately switched out and preserved for later, since Dusknoir is neutral to Stone Edge and resists its STAB attacks. Try Night Slash (Choice sets) and you're just asking to lose half your health to Pain Split, then easily switched into resistance while you're now stuck with a half-health, burnt Heracross with 3-4 turns of life remaining. Dusknoir could also pack Fire Punch.

Gengar's Defense is terrible (as is Mismagius') and will get eaten by Stone Edge on the switch-in. Dusknoir eats Megahorn/CC just as well but doesn't get torn up by Stone Edge. It even has Pressure, which does spell trouble for SE's meager 5-8 PP even if you can't quickly kill Heracross.

I'd drop Air Slash before Bug Buzz on Yanmega. Bug hits a ton of standard pokémon for heavy damage, such as Starmie or T-Tar, while Air Slash is mostly useful just for Heracross. For the Wide Lens thing, Air Slash is only 95% accuracy so it helps ensure perfect hit rate there aside boosting Hypnosis. U-Turn is a great move, but you don't have to feel compelled to use it just because it learns it; you can use both Air Slash and Bug Buzz, maybe even U-Turn still in the last slot.
 
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