A radical proposition: Camerupt

[X-Act]

So what exactly is the point of this thread, seriously?

In fact, what the fuck is this thread?

Do you seriously think that this thread will change the course of EVO1?

How the fuck did this thread get 100 posts without being locked?

 

[zfs]

For the people talking about the sanctity of the democratic process:

A. I've seen some posts that are concerned about the number of total votes in the Houndoom vs. Farfetch'd topic, and there is talk of foul play with alts. So, the democratic process is hardly perfect.

B. I've seen people in here state that their main reason for voting for one of the two choices was to block the other one. That doesn't speak very well towards the quality of the choices remaining on the table.

Also, in politics (something much more complicated than Pokemon), there are failsafes in place for instances where the people feel that they voted incorrectly, like the recalling process. If a poll was started, and a simple majority voted that they would rather start over than do a CAP with one of the two remaining choices, isn't that a fair, democratic decision?

Of course, like any system, this too would have problems. People could continue to suggest restarting (and do so in the future) simply because their candidate didn't make it into the finals of the selection process. These sorts of processes can always be tainted by partisanship (or fanboyism in this case, I suppose), but the main goal is still to follow the will of the people, right?

From this topic, it seems like a lot of people aren't pleased with a Houndoom/Farfetch'd finals. And no, I wasn't told by anybody to come here and support this topic. I'm insulted that anyone would even suggest that, honestly.

 

[tennisace]

A. I've seen some posts that are concerned about the number of total votes in the Houndoom vs. Farfetch'd topic, and there is talk of foul play with alts. So, the democratic process is hardly perfect.

Which I personally went through and checked, there wasn't anyone with a join date of when the poll started or later that I checked.

B. I've seen people in here state that their main reason for voting for one of the two choices was to block the other one. That doesn't speak very well towards the quality of the choices remaining on the table.

Which happens all the time in here and in the real world, "lesser of two evils".

Also, in politics (something much more complicated than Pokemon), there are failsafes in place for instances where the people feel that they voted incorrectly, like the recalling process. If a poll was started, and a simple majority voted that they would rather start over than do a CAP with one of the two remaining choices, isn't that a fair, democratic decision?

The majority of people probably wouldn't vote that, because not everyone who voted in the previous threads posted here.

Of course, like any system, this too would have problems. People could continue to suggest restarting (and do so in the future) simply because their candidate didn't make it into the finals of the selection process. These sorts of processes can always be tainted by partisanship (or fanboyism in this case, I suppose), but the main goal is still to follow the will of the people, right?

But the will of the people didn't originally want Camerupt, even when it was a legitimate option.

 

[zfs]

Which happens all the time in here and in the real world, "lesser of two evils".

True, but it happens in the real world out of neccessity. In politics, you will rarely ever find a situation where a voter supports one candidate, but would be okay with his opponent winning. Is it that farfetched (bad pun, I know) to think that there could be a situation where the final two pokemon would get well-rounded support, where people could say "You know, I voted for X, but I think Y would also be a damn good choice"? Because that certainly isn't happening at the moment.

 

[tennisace]

True, but it happens in the real world out of neccessity. In politics, you will rarely ever find a situation where a voter supports one candidate, but would be okay with his opponent winning. Is it that farfetched (bad pun, I know) to think that there could be a situation where the final two pokemon would get well-rounded support, where people could say "You know, I voted for X, but I think Y would also be a damn good choice"? Because that certainly isn't happening at the moment.

Actually I did see quite a few people saying that in the thread, the server, and the IRC channel. I personally would be happy with both. Its just that there are a bunch of people arguing that one is completely better than the other, which is fine too. Like this thread's op.

 

[X-Act]

The point is, there were way too many instances when I thought that my line of reasoning is right here on CAP... and yet it wasn't voted for. I didn't post a single thread about it though! Who cares if the democratic system might be wrong? Who cares if you have the belief that you're right? If people didn't vote for your belief, they didn't, and that's that.

Sorry if I sound like a douche, and I really don't want to fight with Gorm or anything, but who cares if you think we're going to waste time? If the majority wants to "waste time", then let's "waste time". I've had this happen to me way too many times before, but hey, I always respected the majority's decision. If you think that the "majority wins" policy is wrong, then I'm sorry, this subforum clearly isn't for you.

Sorry guys, but unless darkie or Doug want to reopen this thread, I'm locking this.

EDIT: Or Mekkah, lol.

 

[Mekkah]

Just posting to say I agree this lock. Maybe if the process wasn't fair, I wouldn't have. But it was.

 

[DougJustDoug]

When I first saw this thread, I was going to lock it straight up. I have a high regard for following the CAP process, and this thread basically says, "I don't care about the process. I have a good idea." We get this sort of thing all the time, but normally I delete the threads so they don't distract the community.

But, I sometimes get the impression that people think I am too rigid regarding the CAP process. I'm not interested in being a "Process Nazi", if the rest of the community feels like it is restrictive. I'm not going to lord the process over the community, if people would rather play it fast and loose around here.

I wanted to see what other members of the community would say to respected Smogoners asking to throw perfectly valid poll results out the window. Unlike many of the total fanboy renegade threads we get -- this one actually was motivated by concerns for metagame play. It raises a very interesting question of, "How important is it to have a structured democratic voting system in the CAP project?" I wanted to see if my opinions were in line with the rest of the community. So I left the thread open, and let people fight it out for a little while.

I'm glad that many other people came to the defense of the process. I am a strong believer that community voting is the bedrock of the CAP project. While it produces some wonky results, I think it is essential for maintaining community interest and involvement.

I'll admit there are many times I would love to throw out voting results and do things my way. But, if we allow that to happen, it weakens the community -- even if it produces a "better" Pokemon (as if that can really be measured anyway). The CAP Process and and the CAP Community are intrinsically linked. I don't think we can have one without the other. So, if I value the community, I necessarily must be willing to deal with occasional disappointment with the pokemon we create.

But, the pokemon aren't really the point anyway....

Despite the project's name, the goal is not to create Pokémon. The Pokémon that come out of the project are simply a by-product of the community construction process. The process is the goal -- with all the discussions and discoveries that go along with it. Like they say, "Life is about the journey, not the destination."