A thread about something almost universally hated!?

Camkitsune

Alright, this is something i've been asking a lot of people I know...
What is your opinion on Opera (as in The Marriage of Figaro, Carmen, et cetra)? It seems that most of the modern media seems to regard it as a stuffy, 'boring' art form intended only for the wealthy to show off how cultured they are by going to one. And yet almost anyone can recognize passages from, say, the Flight of the Valkaries (SP), Carmen, The Marriage of Figaro, or Pagliacci.
Then there is the modern parallel, the musical. These are considered to be much more accessable to the general public. Natrually, they've also been pidgeonholed by the average american, who may or may not have seen several of them (yes, Disney films count). And yet the only real differences between the Musical and Opera are that the latter usually requires a large orchestra, and therefore a place to fit the players all in.
So, what's your opinion?
 
I enjoy opera, for the most part. I will admit I'm not greatly familiar with it, but I love Verdi's work, as well as Orff's Carmina Burana.

Paul sings Nessun Dorma!!!!!
 
I'm just too impatient. I need something gripping, an intriguing storyline or exciting visuals or profound lyrics and they just aren't there. I generally can't stand live performances where I can't make any noise anyway (except comedy).
 
i don't like how the fat ladies sing tbh

it's just so...ugh

and they are fat too...that doesn't help matters much
 
Well the lyrics are pretty profound at times.. I mean, Wagner was a smart dude.. And he didnt spent 17 years twiddling his thumbs when writing Der Ring Des Nibelungen. He just wrote in German. If you want Opera in English then you have to accept it will probably be modern (and therefore almost unlistenable) or crap (John Gay, Handel).

But on the other hand, they are from a time when other forms of entertainment (TV) wasnt available.. And they really kicked the crap out of plays. It's just putting on operas is a lot more difficult than staging a play..

On the plus side, Opera is the most impressively difficult performing art by some margin.. And they usually dont spare much on the exciting visuals either, I mean after you spend the money on an orchestra and cast, you may as well go that little bit further.. But yeah, I wouldnt recommend going to the opera weekly like you might a movie, but it is definitely something worth checking out.. Just dont go to amateur productions or whatever..

Musicals however are unforgiveably bad. They are a desperate attempt to hold onto something that should have died like 50 years ago.. Basically there is no real reason for musicals to exist..

Have a nice day.
 
I had a negative view of opera - which grew out of the samples I have listened to during one of my music classes. It was stale and all about the same thing (particularly the 50 billion variations of the Orpheus myth I was forced to listen to)
However upon going to see an Opera performed (I had the opportunity to watch Bartok's Count Bluebeard's castle and Shoenberg's Erwantung) and I must say I enjoyed it immensely, perhaps it was because it didn't really have a plot and we had a blast trying to figure out what everything meant visually and musically. (although Erwantung was mostly loud dissonance, soft dissonance, high dissonance, etc)
It was pretty cool how they had subtitles flashing above the stage to tell us what the singers were singing.
 
Mostly I feel that opera is over-priced. But the two operas I have been to (Madam Butterfly and Eugene Onegin) were both brilliant and reasonably priced.
 
I will say that I am a big fan of operettas. Les Miserables, in my opinion, is one of the greatest things I've ever seen on a stage, and I've also seen Phantom of the Opera twice and Miss Saigon once. No, it's not "opera" in the true sense of the word, but it's in my language so at least I know what's going on.
 
Steeler36 said:
i don't like how the fat ladies sing tbh

it's just so...ugh

and they are fat too...that doesn't help matters much
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Most of them aren't all that fat, Especially in Motzart's works. Though the style of singing is more a matter of prefrence... Hell, some people like Throat Singing (See Pantera or most Death Metal).

The tricky bit about lyrics is that, in translating them, one inevitably looses the context of the original language. To use a perfect example that has nothing to do with opera, oftentimes when you see an anime where people are about to sit down and eat together, there comes an inexplicable moment where all of the characters say, in unison, "Let's Eat!" This is translated from the Japanese "Itadakimas" (pardon any imperfections in my spacing, it's been so long since i've had to write anything Japanese with english letters), which is sort of a non-religious form of grace.
In other words, oftentimes one misses out on the true artestry of opera because the language barrier is impossible for the average person to break without a lot of work.

There ARE good musicals (see The Demon Barber of Fleet Street, for example), it's just that they haven't had the grace of having time weed out the bad ones. This is why there are only a handful of classical composers that people remember: in theory the less skilled faded from memory. For example, does anybody here know Teleman or the baron Ditters von Dittersdorf?

And as for modern opera being unlistenable, I can't disagree, though atonal theory and its silly-ness is better left for another thread.
 
Camkitsune said:
This is why there are only a handful of classical composers that people remember: in theory the less skilled faded from memory. For example, does anybody here know Teleman or the baron Ditters von Dittersdorf?
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I know of Telemann, but somehow Ditters von Dittersdorf has passed me by. It's not quite accurate to say that people remember "only a handful": perhaps those who aren't into — or possibly even aware of — classical music might only be know Beethoven, Mozart and Bach; but that's true of all genres. I myself could not give you the name of a single Scandanavian death metal band, for example.
 
The fact is, Opera shouldn't be universally hated. It is due to a stupid public. Some of the most powerful, moving music is in operatic works such as Wagner's Ring, the most technically virtuosic in Mozart's Magic Flute (at least for the soprano). Of course, there will always be people who dislike it for what it is - something that they cannot understand. And, just as in any art genre, there are good and bad operas. If you really want to see a good opera in English, I'd recommend wholeheartedly Porgy and Bess, by George Gershwin. My parents recently went to see this, unfortunately I was playing on a gig elsewhere so I couldn't go with them, but they brought me the CD of the performance, and everything about it was brilliant. The only opera I've ever seen in full is the Magic Flute, however, I was probably too young at the time to properly appreciate it (being about 8 or something). Living in the North of England, we are rather culturally starved (although there are Rembrandts in the local art gallery at the moment, I still need to go and see that).
 
I'm a choir kid, so I may be a bit biased.

I really like (most) musicals. And from my experience I also like Opera. From my experience because I've only actually seen one...and to be honest I was asleep during most of the first act. The Barber of Seville, for those who are curious, I went with my schools choir down to San Francisco to see it.

The second act, however, was amazing. The stage was basically a big house with the wall cut out of the back, which would rotate as necessitated by scene changes. All subtitled very well, so you got the jokes quite a bit (there was one bit poking fun at how in Opera they often sing the same line repeatedly a few times, and that it takes a very long time to do so, in which the characters must leave the house quickly. They stood there stationary for a good ten minutes singing "We must go! We must leave!"). It didn't hurt that the setting was modernized, and the main character wasn't the stereotypical "fat lady singing" (although she was a tad larger than usual).

I can totally understand why people wouldn't like Opera though. I personally think it can be pretty fun though, if you make sure you pay attention and don't fall asleep.
 
I went to see an opera in my grade 12 class. But I don't think it was in English (French I think?). I was so very confused by what was going on. Something about the devil.
 
Yeah I know the one you mean, there was a heroic tenor, a beautiful soprano, a wicked alto, a bumbling father figure played by the bass, a love potion, some fairies and in the end we learn that love conquers all right?

Have a nice day.
 
Really, I haven't ever gone to an opera in my life, or even wanted to... the whole "opera is boring" thing is planted in your head when you're really young because it's made fun of by a lot of cartoons and etc.

After reading this thread, however, it actually sounds remotely interesting. I might just go see one someday.
 
When I was a child, my parents used to drag me to operas all the damn time. During those years, I was unable to appreciate the complexities of the pieces, and fell asleep often. Nowadays, though, I'd be happy to attend an opera or two, provided I had money. :/.

I did attend one or two free performances at UC Berkeley, though. Those were sweet.
 
Hipmonlee said:
Yeah I know the one you mean, there was a heroic tenor, a beautiful soprano, a wicked alto, a bumbling father figure played by the bass, a love potion, some fairies and in the end we learn that love conquers all right?

Have a nice day.
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Was the guy going to heaven at the end? I think that's what was happening at the end. If so, that's the one.
 
Sleep said:
Really, I haven't ever gone to an opera in my life, or even wanted to... the whole "opera is boring" thing is planted in your head when you're really young because it's made fun of by a lot of cartoons and etc.

After reading this thread, however, it actually sounds remotely interesting. I might just go see one someday.
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Nice to see that people's opinions can be swayed... Wish I could say the same for my parents, who refuse to believe that I'm ever right about anything. >.>;
 
I think Opera is pretty awesome. I have played some child parts in La Boheme and The Magic Flute, and those are probably my favorites that I have encountered.
 
I love light opera, esp. Gilbert and Sullivan. I starred as the Pirate King in my school's production of Pirates of Penzance, and it was the greatest theatriczal experience of my life.

Aside from G&S I've seen Carmen and La Traviata. Carmen was great because I actually knew and already loved the songs for it, and this interpretation of La Trav had some crazy orgy scenes. So of course it was entertaining too.

My secret goal in life is to be part of a Gilbert & Sullivan company someday.

Yeah, opera is great.
 
I am a semi-devoted Wagnerian, and I enjoy watching operas on TV/internet/etc, mainly because I don't have the money to go see one live.

But anyway, I love the "epic" and the "grand" and thus, opera in general appeals to me.

I'm also highly interested in vocal music (and looking into getting vocal training) so that is another source of interest.

I hate the way classical music in general is mocked in society. I tried to introduce it to people my age, and the universal response is "boring" or "slow" or "it puts me to sleep".

Even when I'm playing stuff like Mozart's Dies Irae (How the fuck does THAT put anyone to sleep) or the 4th movement of Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony.
 
I'm kind of indifferent about operas - if I get the chance to see one and I have nothing better to do I normally will, but on the same token I'm never going to be clamoring for tickets for one, either. I definitely prefer Musicals to them(which is where I would definitely place the excellent Les Mis and Miss Saigon that DM mentioned) in general, mostly because they ordinarily hold my attention a lot better. There's also the plus that unlike Opera, good musicals are still being created(with Wicked a few years ago being a pretty good example)...
 
IMO most people dislike opera because they only hear it, the experience of seeing an opera is what it's all about.

Although personally I prefer more symphonic instrumental music.
 
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