I don't think Drizzle Magikarp would have any use in OU if Politoed hadn't have Drizzle, because of weather wars. Different story if in Magikarp tier wouldn't have any weather inducer.
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Ability Tiering Thread and General Ability Discussion (Final Check)
- Thread starter forestflamerunner
- Start date
I don't think Drizzle Magikarp would have any use in OU if Politoed hadn't have Drizzle, because of weather wars. Different story if in Magikarp tier wouldn't have any weather inducer.
I disagree. Perhaps Rain wouldn't be as commonplace as it is now, but Drizzle Magikarp would still be used. Remember, weather teams are never about the weather inducer, they are focused on the other 5 team members. The weather inducer is really only there because it has to be there. It's nice that politoed isn't total shit, but really just about any pokemon with drizzle could work as a weather inducer.
I would like to nominate a few things:
Guts (would do quick feet as well, but I see I'm not allowed to): I know I'm going to take a LOT of heat for this one, but whatever. In reality, I simply don't believe that this is as good as people think it is. Sure, a pseudo-immunity to status is nice, but who in their right mind is going to spam will-o-wisp when they see a conkeldurr in team preview? Not me, that's for sure. If you hold a flame orb, you can't get the power boost from something like choice band or life orb, or the speed boost from choice scarf. Also, since this puts everything on a time limit (in the case of burns and poison) or a 25% chance to do nothing (paralysis), I simply can't see this competing with the other A-tier abilities. I'd rather have mold breaker or rock head, or something else of the like. B-tier.
Analytic: An ability ruined by awful distribution. Starmie and Porygon-Z are too fast, Magnezone is perceived to have a better ability (although I'm not so sure...), and Beheeyem is an inferior Gardevoir. However, just think if something like Conkeldurr got this. Sure, I'll take a free boost against anything not named Ferrothorn or Slowbro any day. A-tier.
Heatproof: Sure, it's not as good as flash fire or thick fat, but who cares? If something had this that didn't have a very high A-tier ability as well, we'd see the merits of this. Imagine something like Ferrothorn with this; it would be even harder to kill than it already is. A-tier
Cursed Body: I actually prefer this to Water Absorb on Jellicent. Why? A 30% chance to disable ANY move affecting the target is simply too good to pass up. Something can 3HKO or 2HKO it? Spam recover and wait for it to get disabled. Unless you're REALLY unlucky, it should get disabled before you die. B-tier, or maybe even A-tier.
Iron Fist: This is what is keeping Infernape in OU, IMO. Without it, it simply can't stand up to the power level of OU. Also, IMO, iron fist Conkeldurr is better than guts (you saw my opinion on that above). Iron fist should be at least at the level of guts, which I think should be B-tier. This is also at least the same as Reckless, which is also B-tier. B-tier for this as well.
Heavy Metal: This is worse than no ability, except in a very few cases (a.k.a. Aggron). Making you more vulnerable to a few common moves, while lessening damage from uncommon moves, makes this F-tier in my opinion.
BTW, Wonder Skin is listed as being in both B- and C-tier. Mistake? I vote for B-tier.
Guts (would do quick feet as well, but I see I'm not allowed to): I know I'm going to take a LOT of heat for this one, but whatever. In reality, I simply don't believe that this is as good as people think it is. Sure, a pseudo-immunity to status is nice, but who in their right mind is going to spam will-o-wisp when they see a conkeldurr in team preview? Not me, that's for sure. If you hold a flame orb, you can't get the power boost from something like choice band or life orb, or the speed boost from choice scarf. Also, since this puts everything on a time limit (in the case of burns and poison) or a 25% chance to do nothing (paralysis), I simply can't see this competing with the other A-tier abilities. I'd rather have mold breaker or rock head, or something else of the like. B-tier.
Analytic: An ability ruined by awful distribution. Starmie and Porygon-Z are too fast, Magnezone is perceived to have a better ability (although I'm not so sure...), and Beheeyem is an inferior Gardevoir. However, just think if something like Conkeldurr got this. Sure, I'll take a free boost against anything not named Ferrothorn or Slowbro any day. A-tier.
Heatproof: Sure, it's not as good as flash fire or thick fat, but who cares? If something had this that didn't have a very high A-tier ability as well, we'd see the merits of this. Imagine something like Ferrothorn with this; it would be even harder to kill than it already is. A-tier
Cursed Body: I actually prefer this to Water Absorb on Jellicent. Why? A 30% chance to disable ANY move affecting the target is simply too good to pass up. Something can 3HKO or 2HKO it? Spam recover and wait for it to get disabled. Unless you're REALLY unlucky, it should get disabled before you die. B-tier, or maybe even A-tier.
Iron Fist: This is what is keeping Infernape in OU, IMO. Without it, it simply can't stand up to the power level of OU. Also, IMO, iron fist Conkeldurr is better than guts (you saw my opinion on that above). Iron fist should be at least at the level of guts, which I think should be B-tier. This is also at least the same as Reckless, which is also B-tier. B-tier for this as well.
Heavy Metal: This is worse than no ability, except in a very few cases (a.k.a. Aggron). Making you more vulnerable to a few common moves, while lessening damage from uncommon moves, makes this F-tier in my opinion.
BTW, Wonder Skin is listed as being in both B- and C-tier. Mistake? I vote for B-tier.
I support iron fist, analytic, and cursed body nominations.
I don't agree with guts at all, guts can make Conkeldur an absolute monster peope have learned how to deal with it since early BW1, but its high use is justified. Its just not Conkeldurr either, but Heracross and even Swellow, they all love guts.
Im not to sure about heatproof, it doesn't exactly help out Ferrothorn, its still weak to fire at the end of the day, it just doesn't compare to the immunity abilities in A tier.
I have no idea what your going on about with heavy metal, it makes you weaker to grass knot and low kick, both of which are not common moves at all. Not only that but doubling ones weight interesting doesn't increase the damage output from grass knot and low kick that much. Look at the table on this page:
http://www.smogon.com/bw/moves/low_kick
Lets say your weight was 100, now its 200, the base power has increased a mere 20 points, that's not exactly F tier crippling. Not only that, but due to the way heavy slam works in relation to ones weight: http://www.smogon.com/bw/moves/heavy_slam your damage output can rapidly increase with heavy metal. For example, lets say your weight is a little over 100, and your opponent 50. The damage is 60, but double the weight and now the damage is 100, a 40 power boost.
I don't agree with guts at all, guts can make Conkeldur an absolute monster peope have learned how to deal with it since early BW1, but its high use is justified. Its just not Conkeldurr either, but Heracross and even Swellow, they all love guts.
Im not to sure about heatproof, it doesn't exactly help out Ferrothorn, its still weak to fire at the end of the day, it just doesn't compare to the immunity abilities in A tier.
I have no idea what your going on about with heavy metal, it makes you weaker to grass knot and low kick, both of which are not common moves at all. Not only that but doubling ones weight interesting doesn't increase the damage output from grass knot and low kick that much. Look at the table on this page:
http://www.smogon.com/bw/moves/low_kick
Lets say your weight was 100, now its 200, the base power has increased a mere 20 points, that's not exactly F tier crippling. Not only that, but due to the way heavy slam works in relation to ones weight: http://www.smogon.com/bw/moves/heavy_slam your damage output can rapidly increase with heavy metal. For example, lets say your weight is a little over 100, and your opponent 50. The damage is 60, but double the weight and now the damage is 100, a 40 power boost.
My thoughts:
Imposter: S Tier - Abilities that are so good that the ability will often make otherwise unusable Pokémon viable. It doesn't matter that things that already have strong niches without it and wouldn't be able to fill them with it, it's a good enough ability to turn pretty much anything in NU (outside maybe Shedinja and possibly a few others) into a deadly OU viable revenge killer.
Moody: I agree with you that Moody is a broken ability, but, once again, I go back to the S Tier definition. Sure, Moody may be the best S Tier Ability, but it still falls under the definition.
Flower Gift: Flower Gift actually works on both the holder of the ability and its partners, so it actually is useful in singles. I think whether a single boost in Attack and Special Defense in sun is worthy of A Tier could use some discussion though.
Analytic: I kind of agree with you that we definitely haven't seen Analytic distributed to anything that can or wants to abuse it to its full effect (and I agree I see the value in a discussion here), but I can still also see the argument for leaving it where it is. One of the ways we're supposed to be able to distinguish B Tier abilities from A Tier ones is that they require a more specialized stat spread. Analytic becomes less effective the more speed you have, and requires the bulk necessary to take the hits required for something that wants to go second. Also, this is just theorymoning but walls are also generally slow, so the things that you're going to be hitting harder are the things that are less bulky (of course this might be a bit different if the boost activates on switch outs, which I don't know if it does)
Shed Skin: I think a discussion is worthy here as well. The moveset data isn't up anymore in the usage stats, but about half of all Scrafty run Shed Skin despite having the A Tier ability Moxie. It comes down to how valuable you regard a 30% chance to be cured of status each turn, which in itself isn't that high, but rises to 51% over two turns, 65.7% over three, 75.99% over four, 83.193% over five, etc.
Infiltrator: I can see the point of a discussion here. I believe it comes down to how common one regards screens as a component of used strategies. If they're common enough, I could see the reasoning for putting it in B, but, if not, I believe it falls under C's mentioning of niche uses.
Inner Focus and Steadfast: Sure flinch isn't the most common thing, but with Jirachi on over 15% of teams, shutting down its paraflinch set for the most part is still a good niche to have. That's really all its good for in OU though outside of uncommon things.
Pressure: I could go either way on this one. It really depends on how valuable and large a niche you view stalling out low PP moves as
Iron Fist: Sure they do, but the boost is small, only equal to that from Expert Belt or the Elemental Plates. I'm not sure where to go here, but that should be taken into account along with the small number of moves that are boosted by it.
Pickpocket: Yeah I don't think this is that great an ability. Outside gimmicky gem sets, sash mons (maybe; does it work if sash was just consumed?), or berry sets you can't run an item to use it to its full effect, and would probably be better off running your own than stealing one from your opponent.
Vital Spirit / Insomnia: I actually have come to agree with this potentially needing a move. This is especially true because immunity to a status is, in my opinion, more useful more of the time than immunity to stat drops (Clear Smoke and White Smoke), an attack boost after stat drops (Defiant), dealing a little damage if your opponent is asleep (Bad Dreams), etc. Unfortunately, the rules of this phase of the discussion forbid voting on both Insomnia & Vital spirit and Defiant and Bad Dreams, so I'm not sure what we can really do about it.
Anger Point: Crits only happen 5% of the time though. Plus, the crit needs to be weak enough to not KO you. That seems in line with the "abilities [that] may come in handy once in a blue moon" in the D Tier description
Own Tempo: Pretty much what I said about Vital Spirit & Insomnia
Color Change: I don't feel strongly enough to state an opinion here. I think it's a bad ability, but I'd like to here what other people have to say.
On to my things I want to talk about.
1.) All of the status immunity abilities are C Tier while all of the big stat drop immunity abilities (including essentially Defiant since the only thing it's going to do that often is reverse Intimidate) are B Tier. As I mentioned earlier, I don't know exactly what to do about this since Insomnia, Vital Spirit, and Defiant are excluded from voting during this phase.
2.) Solar Power. I brought this up earlier and people dismissed it arguing that (a) the HP drop of 12.5% occurs very quickly and independently of whether your attack connects, (b) that only super powerful special attackers or ones with fire STAB could take advantage of it since anything else would die to easily against resists, and (c) that life orb is superior (as it’s not sun dependent) and you can’t run both effectively. I pointed out that (a) if you were worried about the HP drop you can run leftovers and live 16 turns (as opposed to life orb’s 10 attacks) and longer if you happen to be in when they change the weather, (b) if you’re worried about power, running specs on something with solar power gives anything with more than 53 Special Attack has more power in sun then itemless Deoxys-A, meaning anything with even decent Special Attack is going to be very powerful, and (c) that, while Solar Power may give only 1.15x more power than Life Orb, Specs Solar Power gives 1.73x more power, which is not at all equivalent. I’d also like to quote a point I raised comparing it and guts: “from my perspective the ability either makes you less frail than guts does (since you can get the boost even if you're running leftovers and will thus last longer than something with a status orb) or is more reliable than guts is (since you can control to an extent whether the sun is up but cannot control whether you're statused if you don't run a status orb).” Maybe there are other reasons not to move it to A tier or there are flaws in my reasoning, but I’d like to see them so this can stop bothering me at least.
That’s it for now, maybe more later.
Exactly, there's no point having something outspeed everything if it can do little anyway. The point I was making was, speed boost on something terrible is pointless, yet Drizzle still has a use on something terrible, as it brings rain no matter what the poke.
I didn't mean Magikarp would be OU, but he would definately be more useful then one with Speed Boost. Let's be fair nobody uses Politoed for anything other than Drizzle, but you have to try and make the most out of the poke nether the less, giving him a Scarf can make him a sort of effective revenge killer, giving him a second use. While I think any offensive based pokemon, and even some defensive ones, would rather have speed boost then drizzle, the pokemon has to have a use to actually benefit from the speed boosts in a substantial way.
But in weather wars, Magikarp resistance is almost zero. Politoed isn't that bad, it is really an another filler water type(counting if Politoed didn't have Drizzle)
Different out of weather wars, Snover is pretty horrible and it was usable in 4th gen UU/NU.
@ Jamiroquai, I agree, but exactly Politoed besides of being Scarf, could be Specs, defensive...
About Speed Boost, I think even defensive ones could benefit from the speed, moving first is great. But without doubt it cannot enter to the definiton of S-Tier.
Talking about Bad Dreams, I think it is a terrible ability. Well the idea is pretty good, but Sleep Clause ruins it, nobody is going to leave a sleep mon. It is a bit better due to Sleeptalkers, but crippled with the new sleep mechanics and nobody is going to leave a Sleeptalker in front of the pokemon with Bad Dreams' ability.
There is an ability of, well, at least is better than Keen Eye and at least does 12,5% of damage in the turn that the pokemon was put to sleep.
I find Inner Focus/Steadfast, not bad, but very "blue moon" ability because these "strategies" are rare.
It is important to stand out that Jirachi isn't that common paraflincher that it was, currently is more CM user.
It is a usually outclassed ability.
Iron Fist, I was thinking about it the other day, sure the boost is low, but the users usually carry the typical combo of Thunder Punch, Fire Punch and Ice Punch, and while 75 to 90 isn't very high, counting a superefective attack, raises it to 150->180, without counting boosting items.
However, this ability is usually outclassed, depending on the user.
Pressure, in defensive mons with Recover or the like, it's very good. Sure there is the typical phrase of "there are better abilities", but it shouldn't have to take off its merits.
I used Deoxys-D in OU several times, and this ability helped be, specially to stall out Reuniclus's CM PP quickly(with Taunt) or stalling out PP from Terrakion's Stone Edge, and not talking how annoying this ability could be in Ubers.
Also, I find Shell/Battle Armor underrated. Sure while it could be useful on every mon, except things like Shedija or Deoxys-A, offensive mons prefer another ability more useful in a long-term, but in defensive pokemon, while this ability is outclassed but many, it is still an option. How great is an ability that ensures that your wall isn't never to be hit by a crucial critical hit.
Shell / Battle armor are decent abilities, however I think they clearly fit the bill of a "better than nothing" ability. Realistically your pokemon would rather have pretty much any defensive ability even in C tier, being immune from crits is cool and all, but presses no serious advantage. Moving them also sets a terrible president, as like over half the abilities in D tier deal with critical hits in some way, and they don't have much of an advantage over lets say sniper or super luck which an offensive pokemon would like. Are they good abilities, yes, good enough for C tier, no.
OK well, we are nearing the end of this process so I thought I would just bring up a handful of Abilities that were previously mentioned in this thread but weren't brought up yet.
1. Illusion- Illusion is all about skill. If you know how to use Illusion effectively you can probably nab a surprise kill or two, but if you don't it i can be a total bust. Illusion is also one of the few abilities that becomes more effective as more pokemon on your team use it. Just imagine how hard it would be to face a team of six illusion Pokemon. Every time you attack, you are taking a shot in the dark as you try and decipher what exactly are you facing. I think this ability does deserve some discussion.
2. Trace- some people have said that Trace deserves to be moved up to A- Tier so I figure if this is your opinion you might as well speak up now. Trace is one of those abilities that is as good as the abilities in the metagame around it. for example, if a ton of people are using A ot B Tier abilities, Trace will be fairly effective, but if everyone is using, D or F Tier abilities, well, not so effective. In my opinion, if their was an ability that was worth tracing, the pokemon would prefer to have it naturally (if a Pokemon appreciated being able to Trace Moxie or Speed Boost, having Moxie or Speed Boost naturally would be better than having Trace. Some people may feel differently, so, like i said before, if that includes you, speak up or forever hold your peace.
3. Mummy- Its in a similar boat as Trace, so odds are if you think Trace should move up, so should this ability. Mummy is a bit harder to activate, but on the flip side it causes a lot of trouble for Pokemon who rely on their abilities to function.
1. Illusion- Illusion is all about skill. If you know how to use Illusion effectively you can probably nab a surprise kill or two, but if you don't it i can be a total bust. Illusion is also one of the few abilities that becomes more effective as more pokemon on your team use it. Just imagine how hard it would be to face a team of six illusion Pokemon. Every time you attack, you are taking a shot in the dark as you try and decipher what exactly are you facing. I think this ability does deserve some discussion.
2. Trace- some people have said that Trace deserves to be moved up to A- Tier so I figure if this is your opinion you might as well speak up now. Trace is one of those abilities that is as good as the abilities in the metagame around it. for example, if a ton of people are using A ot B Tier abilities, Trace will be fairly effective, but if everyone is using, D or F Tier abilities, well, not so effective. In my opinion, if their was an ability that was worth tracing, the pokemon would prefer to have it naturally (if a Pokemon appreciated being able to Trace Moxie or Speed Boost, having Moxie or Speed Boost naturally would be better than having Trace. Some people may feel differently, so, like i said before, if that includes you, speak up or forever hold your peace.
3. Mummy- Its in a similar boat as Trace, so odds are if you think Trace should move up, so should this ability. Mummy is a bit harder to activate, but on the flip side it causes a lot of trouble for Pokemon who rely on their abilities to function.
FI'm really sorry about that long absence. I know that i said voting would start in 2 weeks when in fact it ended up being a month. some IRL problems came up and i only had sporadic contact with my computer and honestly, at the time, this wasn't exactly a chief concern. Anyways, I don't expect too many people to still be too interested in this thread, but since we are basically almost done I figure we might as well try to complete the last lap. The nominations for this final voting period are Guts, Analytic, Heatproof, Solar Power, Cursed Body, Iron Fist, Heavy Metal, Illusion, Trace, and Mummy. the voting period will last 72 hours. please put your votes in bold. this is the home stretch. make it count.
My Votes
Guts: Do not change tier
Analytic: Do not change tier
Heatproof: Do not change tier
Solar Power: Do not change tier
Cursed Body: Change Tier
Iron Fist: Do not change tier
Heavy Metal: Do not change tier
Illusion: Change Tier
Trace: Do Not Change Tier
Mummy: Change Tier
My Votes
Guts: Do not change tier
Analytic: Do not change tier
Heatproof: Do not change tier
Solar Power: Do not change tier
Cursed Body: Change Tier
Iron Fist: Do not change tier
Heavy Metal: Do not change tier
Illusion: Change Tier
Trace: Do Not Change Tier
Mummy: Change Tier
Guts: Do not change tier
Analytic: Do not change tier
Heatproof: Do not change tier
Solar Power: Do not change tier
Cursed Body: Do not change tier
Iron Fist: Do not change tier
Heavy Metal: Do not change tier
Illusion: Do not change tier
Trace: Do not change tier
Mummy: Do not change tier
Everything's fine where it is, in my opinion.
Analytic: Do not change tier
Heatproof: Do not change tier
Solar Power: Do not change tier
Cursed Body: Do not change tier
Iron Fist: Do not change tier
Heavy Metal: Do not change tier
Illusion: Do not change tier
Trace: Do not change tier
Mummy: Do not change tier
Everything's fine where it is, in my opinion.
Guts: Do not change tier
Analytic: Do not change tier
Heatproof: Do not change tier
Solar Power: Do not change tier
Cursed Body: Do not change tier
Iron Fist: Do not change tier
Heavy Metal: Do not change tier
Illusion: Do not change tier
Trace: Change Tier
Mummy: Change Tier
Trace is the only one I think deserves to go up a tiers. The thing with trace is that it is really, really damn good against most decent Pokemon because most decent Pokemon have decent abilities. So many things get screwed over by trace it's pretty amazing, and is one of the main reasons that Porygon2 is as OU viable as it is. Hell, it even gives Gardevoir some utility.
Mummy, I'm not nominating to go up a tier. I'm nominating it to go DOWN a tier. Why? Well a couple reasons. One is that Mummy requires a contact move to hit the carrier before it activates, whereas trace activates as soon as the user is switched in. Mummy is totally useless against Pokemon without contact moves because of that. The fact that it requires contact to activate also means that the user needs to take damage before it reaps the benefits, which isn't good. Also, because opponents afflicted by Mummy can just switch out to remove it the effect is rarely taken advantage of, since in order to take advantage of it you have to get a Pokemon that can take advantage of it in on the afflicted Pokemon first, and if they're THAT heavily afflicted by it (and very few Pokemon are) they'll just switch out. If Mummy lasted throughout the whole match that'd be a different story, but since the target reverts to its natural ability as soon as it switches out I'm hard pressed seeing Mummy being helpful in the vast majority of situations.
Analytic: Do not change tier
Heatproof: Do not change tier
Solar Power: Do not change tier
Cursed Body: Do not change tier
Iron Fist: Do not change tier
Heavy Metal: Do not change tier
Illusion: Do not change tier
Trace: Change Tier
Mummy: Change Tier
Trace is the only one I think deserves to go up a tiers. The thing with trace is that it is really, really damn good against most decent Pokemon because most decent Pokemon have decent abilities. So many things get screwed over by trace it's pretty amazing, and is one of the main reasons that Porygon2 is as OU viable as it is. Hell, it even gives Gardevoir some utility.
Mummy, I'm not nominating to go up a tier. I'm nominating it to go DOWN a tier. Why? Well a couple reasons. One is that Mummy requires a contact move to hit the carrier before it activates, whereas trace activates as soon as the user is switched in. Mummy is totally useless against Pokemon without contact moves because of that. The fact that it requires contact to activate also means that the user needs to take damage before it reaps the benefits, which isn't good. Also, because opponents afflicted by Mummy can just switch out to remove it the effect is rarely taken advantage of, since in order to take advantage of it you have to get a Pokemon that can take advantage of it in on the afflicted Pokemon first, and if they're THAT heavily afflicted by it (and very few Pokemon are) they'll just switch out. If Mummy lasted throughout the whole match that'd be a different story, but since the target reverts to its natural ability as soon as it switches out I'm hard pressed seeing Mummy being helpful in the vast majority of situations.
Guts: Do not Change Tier
Analytic: Do Not Change Tier
Heatproof: Change Tier
Solar Power: Do Not Change Tier
Cursed Body: Change Tier
Iron Fist: Do Not Change Tier
Heavy Metal: Do Not Change Tier
Illusion: Change Tier
Trace: Change Tier
Mummy: Do Not Change Tier
I personally think Trace is one of the best abilities in the game. I was also unaware that Heatproof pokemon dealt 1/16th damage from burn. I'm sure many pokemon would love to have this ability. Finally, Cursed Body affects all moves that are thrown a pokemon's way. For Jellicent, it even gets some use over its A-tier ability Water Absorb. I think many pokemon would enjoy having this ability.
Analytic: Do Not Change Tier
Heatproof: Change Tier
Solar Power: Do Not Change Tier
Cursed Body: Change Tier
Iron Fist: Do Not Change Tier
Heavy Metal: Do Not Change Tier
Illusion: Change Tier
Trace: Change Tier
Mummy: Do Not Change Tier
I personally think Trace is one of the best abilities in the game. I was also unaware that Heatproof pokemon dealt 1/16th damage from burn. I'm sure many pokemon would love to have this ability. Finally, Cursed Body affects all moves that are thrown a pokemon's way. For Jellicent, it even gets some use over its A-tier ability Water Absorb. I think many pokemon would enjoy having this ability.
Ok, I don't have much time...
Guts: Do not Change Tier
Analytic: Do Not Change Tier
Heatproof: Abstain
Solar Power: Change Tier
Cursed Body: Change Tier
Iron Fist: Do Not Change Tier
Heavy Metal: Do Not Change Tier
Illusion: Change Tier
Trace: Change Tier
Mummy: Do Not Change Tier
Solar Power is pretty underrated because the only mon which has it sucks but even that mon is a bit usable(in NU) because the ability.
It is useful offensively and defensively. It requires sun to be useful but Hydration is the same.
I would ever use Cursed Body on Jellicent if there wasn't Scald everywhere.
Heavy Metal isn't that bad, but it has few(2) moves to abuse of and 2 that cripple it.And Steel sucks as an ofensive type.Analytic is like having a LO boost without recoil, but if the user moves second, with Curse (and Gyro Ball) could be abused. An overrated ability because now any mon which has it can't use it well, fragile and quick.
Trace is a strange case, the ability is as good as the abilities of the mons that the user is facing.Heatproof is decent, with burns everywhere, it basically nullifies burn damage when carrying Leftovers.
I have used Cofragigus recently in OU and the ability is sometimes useful, specially against Gliscor with Ice Fang.
Guts: Do not Change Tier
Analytic: Do Not Change Tier
Heatproof: Abstain
Solar Power: Change Tier
Cursed Body: Change Tier
Iron Fist: Do Not Change Tier
Heavy Metal: Do Not Change Tier
Illusion: Change Tier
Trace: Change Tier
Mummy: Do Not Change Tier
Solar Power is pretty underrated because the only mon which has it sucks but even that mon is a bit usable(in NU) because the ability.
It is useful offensively and defensively. It requires sun to be useful but Hydration is the same.
I would ever use Cursed Body on Jellicent if there wasn't Scald everywhere.
Heavy Metal isn't that bad, but it has few(2) moves to abuse of and 2 that cripple it.And Steel sucks as an ofensive type.Analytic is like having a LO boost without recoil, but if the user moves second, with Curse (and Gyro Ball) could be abused. An overrated ability because now any mon which has it can't use it well, fragile and quick.
Trace is a strange case, the ability is as good as the abilities of the mons that the user is facing.Heatproof is decent, with burns everywhere, it basically nullifies burn damage when carrying Leftovers.
I have used Cofragigus recently in OU and the ability is sometimes useful, specially against Gliscor with Ice Fang.
I wish I got involved with this thread earlier. Ah well.
Guts: Do not change tier (Physical Attackers would beg to have this so they don't have to deal with status)
Analytic: Do not change tier (Only works on certain Pokemon: You hit like a truck but you have to go last)
Heatproof: Do not change tier (It's not as good as Flash Fire, which is A tier, though it has some uses to stay B)
Solar Power: Do not change tier (It's kinda like Analytic: You hit like a train but there has to be sun and you'll lose health)
Cursed Body: Change tier (Underrated ability. Great on Froslass and Jellicent and can really mess with the opponent. Up to B)
Iron Fist: Do not change tier (Granted, it really helps Infernape but there's so many better options)
Heavy Metal: Change tier (Low Kick and Grass Knot are WAY more common than the moves that use the weight to their advantage. It does something but it's still kinda useless. Down to F)
Illusion: Do not change tier (Requires some skill to use though it can work quite well if played right)
Trace: Change tier (Situational, but it might work though it will lose the ability when the user switches out. Down to C)
Mummy: Change tier (Same as Trace. Down to C)
Guts: Do not change tier (Physical Attackers would beg to have this so they don't have to deal with status)
Analytic: Do not change tier (Only works on certain Pokemon: You hit like a truck but you have to go last)
Heatproof: Do not change tier (It's not as good as Flash Fire, which is A tier, though it has some uses to stay B)
Solar Power: Do not change tier (It's kinda like Analytic: You hit like a train but there has to be sun and you'll lose health)
Cursed Body: Change tier (Underrated ability. Great on Froslass and Jellicent and can really mess with the opponent. Up to B)
Iron Fist: Do not change tier (Granted, it really helps Infernape but there's so many better options)
Heavy Metal: Change tier (Low Kick and Grass Knot are WAY more common than the moves that use the weight to their advantage. It does something but it's still kinda useless. Down to F)
Illusion: Do not change tier (Requires some skill to use though it can work quite well if played right)
Trace: Change tier (Situational, but it might work though it will lose the ability when the user switches out. Down to C)
Mummy: Change tier (Same as Trace. Down to C)
Guts: Do not change tier
Analytic: Do not change tier
Heatproof: Change tier (What is this ability good for again?)
Solar Power: Abstain (I don't really know of my opinion on this ability)
Cursed Body: Do not change tier
Iron Fist: Do not change tier
Heavy Metal: Change tier (Useless ability.)
Illusion: Do not change tier
Trace: Do not change tier
Mummy: Change tier (It isn't a super-useful ability, but it can come in handy in certain situations. Very rarely useful, though.)
Analytic: Do not change tier
Heatproof: Change tier (What is this ability good for again?)
Solar Power: Abstain (I don't really know of my opinion on this ability)
Cursed Body: Do not change tier
Iron Fist: Do not change tier
Heavy Metal: Change tier (Useless ability.)
Illusion: Do not change tier
Trace: Do not change tier
Mummy: Change tier (It isn't a super-useful ability, but it can come in handy in certain situations. Very rarely useful, though.)
Guts: No change
Analytic: Change tier (on every single Pokemon that gets this, there are better options available, making it a c tier ability)
Heatproof: No change
Solar Power: No change
Cursed Body: No change
Iron Fist: No change
Heavy Metal: No change
Illusion: No change
Trace: No change
Mummy: Change tier (very rarely is there any use for this ability, only use for it i've seen was in cofagrigus vs. guts conkeldurr situations where you burn the conk and then it hits you and loses guts)
Analytic: Change tier (on every single Pokemon that gets this, there are better options available, making it a c tier ability)
Heatproof: No change
Solar Power: No change
Cursed Body: No change
Iron Fist: No change
Heavy Metal: No change
Illusion: No change
Trace: No change
Mummy: Change tier (very rarely is there any use for this ability, only use for it i've seen was in cofagrigus vs. guts conkeldurr situations where you burn the conk and then it hits you and loses guts)
We will now re-tier the following abilities:Klutz, Normalize, Soundproof, Toxic Boost, Cursed Body, Trace, and Mummy. This period will last 24 Hours. votes should look something like this for each ability:
Move (insert ability) to ________ Tier.
Be sure to make your votes in bold. Have fun
Move (insert ability) to ________ Tier.
Be sure to make your votes in bold. Have fun
Problem with this. We didn't vote to re-tier Normalize, Klutz, Soundproof or Toxic Boost. It's kind of undermining the democratic nature of this process if you don't give us the option to vote on it in the first place isn't it?
Klutz: D Tier Trick-orb/iron ball/whatever does not make up for the negative aspects of this ability. The fact that it does have a use should keep it out of F tier, but no higher than D.
Normalize: F Tier Seriously, being able to paralyze Ground types does not make up for having no coverage. At all. ON ANYTHING. Because you know, normal type Thunder Wave doesn't effect Ghost types instead. It's a value neutral trade off, and everything else is negative.
Soundproof: No Change Has its niche but it's particularly useful in most cases. C-tier is where it belongs.
Toxic Boost: B tier It's no Guts, but many a physical attacker could use it. Great for hit and run sets.
Cursed Body: B tier It's most analogus to Static and Flame Body, though its effects are not permanent it does allow some Pokemon to wall a lot better than they could without it. Or would if Jellicent didn't get a better ability in Water Absorb and the others who got it weren't ill-suited to walling in general.
Trace: A tier Trace is as good as the abilities around it, and there are always going to be good abilities around it so it's always good. It makes no sense to imagine a metagame where there are no good abilities because such a metagame does not exist. Even NU has intimidate, flash fire, water absorb etc. So it stands to reason that Trace should be A tier.
Mummy: C tier This ability is like poison point. It requires contact to work, and has an effect that only negatively affects about 20% of the Pokemon that get hit by it. Like others it has its uses, but it's very, very situational and usually pretty useless. Especially if the Pokemon carrying it is known to carry Mummy, which is obviously going to be the case unless we're talking about hackmons or something. You know, maybe just don't make contact with the Pokemon that's going to cause you to be hurt by the toxic orb your carrying maybe. Pretty easy to do.
@ Jimera0
Those four abilities received ties in earlier voting periods so this is more or less to settle those ties. I should have put them in the initial voting period but I forgot. Anyways, you can vote to put those abilities in any tier, even the one they are currently in (much in the same way you did for Soundproof). Sorry about that bit of confusion. Note you can only vote "Keep in same Tier" for Toxic Boost, Soundproof, Normalize, and Klutz and not for the other three abilities.
Those four abilities received ties in earlier voting periods so this is more or less to settle those ties. I should have put them in the initial voting period but I forgot. Anyways, you can vote to put those abilities in any tier, even the one they are currently in (much in the same way you did for Soundproof). Sorry about that bit of confusion. Note you can only vote "Keep in same Tier" for Toxic Boost, Soundproof, Normalize, and Klutz and not for the other three abilities.
Move Klutz to F-tier: would positively affect about 10 pokemon. F-tier
Move Normalize to F-tier: see klutz
Move Soundproof to D-tier: really, the only moves this helps against are roar and bug buzz. That's two moves out of about 100 competitively viable moves. D-tier.
Move Toxic Boost to B-tier: Flare Boost clone, should be in the same tier.
Move Cursed Body to A-tier: better than Water Absorb on Jellicent, a 30% chance to disable ANY move is too good to pass up.
Move Trace to A-tier: see Jimera0's post; he does a good job explaining it.
Move Mummy to C-tier: I'd rather have almost any B-tier ability than this.
Move Normalize to F-tier: see klutz
Move Soundproof to D-tier: really, the only moves this helps against are roar and bug buzz. That's two moves out of about 100 competitively viable moves. D-tier.
Move Toxic Boost to B-tier: Flare Boost clone, should be in the same tier.
Move Cursed Body to A-tier: better than Water Absorb on Jellicent, a 30% chance to disable ANY move is too good to pass up.
Move Trace to A-tier: see Jimera0's post; he does a good job explaining it.
Move Mummy to C-tier: I'd rather have almost any B-tier ability than this.
Move Klutz to D-tier. Requires Trick/Switcheroo to be useful. lol remember Golurk or Woobat, who never carry this ability.
Isn't useless, but has few niches and in the wrong mon is a negative ability.
In general this ability if it is a single ability is a lot bad that good.
It should stay at E-tier, below useless abilities such as Honey Gather.
Move Normalize to F-tier. No coverage. I think Steels are not poisoned from Normal Type poison, because they are inmune to poison status, but in 4th gen, Twineedle can poison Steel types. In LC Skitty can use it for STAB Sucker Punch, but that is about it.
Move Soundproof to C-tier. Remember that this ability provides an inmunity to Perish Song(the other mon would be Perish'ed)
A lot more useful in ADV because Skarmory usually carries Roar because in that gen Drill Peck+Whirlwind is incompatible and Baton Pass team with Mr. Mime was too easy to avoid phazing(some people carried HP Flying and WW for that)
Move Toxic Boost to B-tier.
Move Cursed Body to B-tier.
Frail mons can't abuse it well but at least isn't useless on them, it is 30% still. A general nuisance in general, specially to Choice users. I can't count how time I laughed when my Jellicent disabled Draco Meteor from Latios.
Move Trace to A-tier.
Maybe it seems that having a dynamic ability is worse than having a static ability, because it relies on circumstances, but since things like electrics have Volt Absorb or Lighting rod, Water, Water Abs.... provides an inmunity and an advantage to their STAB. Even in tiers where weather exists, is a nuisance copying things like Dry Skin, Hydration or Swift Swim or Sand Force for inmunity to sand's damage.
It is possible to choose what ability to copy for a purpose, for example if Porygon2 is burnt, use it against Celebi and switch out.
Move Mummy to B-tier. I'd rather to keep this ability on its original position, but this choice isn't available for this ability this round.
Isn't useless, but has few niches and in the wrong mon is a negative ability.
In general this ability if it is a single ability is a lot bad that good.
It should stay at E-tier, below useless abilities such as Honey Gather.
Move Normalize to F-tier. No coverage. I think Steels are not poisoned from Normal Type poison, because they are inmune to poison status, but in 4th gen, Twineedle can poison Steel types. In LC Skitty can use it for STAB Sucker Punch, but that is about it.
Move Soundproof to C-tier. Remember that this ability provides an inmunity to Perish Song(the other mon would be Perish'ed)
A lot more useful in ADV because Skarmory usually carries Roar because in that gen Drill Peck+Whirlwind is incompatible and Baton Pass team with Mr. Mime was too easy to avoid phazing(some people carried HP Flying and WW for that)
Move Toxic Boost to B-tier.
Move Cursed Body to B-tier.
Frail mons can't abuse it well but at least isn't useless on them, it is 30% still. A general nuisance in general, specially to Choice users. I can't count how time I laughed when my Jellicent disabled Draco Meteor from Latios.
Move Trace to A-tier.
Maybe it seems that having a dynamic ability is worse than having a static ability, because it relies on circumstances, but since things like electrics have Volt Absorb or Lighting rod, Water, Water Abs.... provides an inmunity and an advantage to their STAB. Even in tiers where weather exists, is a nuisance copying things like Dry Skin, Hydration or Swift Swim or Sand Force for inmunity to sand's damage.
It is possible to choose what ability to copy for a purpose, for example if Porygon2 is burnt, use it against Celebi and switch out.
Move Mummy to B-tier. I'd rather to keep this ability on its original position, but this choice isn't available for this ability this round.
Klutz was moved to D tier, Normalize was moved to F Tier, Toxic Boost was moved to B tier, Soundproof stayed in D tier, Trace was moved to A tier, Cursed Body was moved to B Tier, and Mummy was moved to C tier. With the conclusion of this last poll, we have successfully completed the entire Ability tiering process. I hope the journey was enjoyable for you all and i hope you learned some things along the way. I personally reconsidered several abilities and their uses over the last few months, and i am really glad that I started this thread and appreciate all the support you gave me. Maybe in the future we as a community can get together on another similar project in the future, but until such a time, fairly wells
There's a lot to cover, but i'm going to skip straight to the "obvious" choices
Move Sand Veil to A tier:
We all know what this thing has done to Garchomp, but its effects are equally devastating on other Pokemon such as Gliscor and even lower tiered Pokemon like Cacturne. It's useless outside of tier that doesn't utilize sand, but so is sand rush and that's A tier. It's often underrated, which is wrong imo; It's godlike with a certain playstyle and not that useful for others.
Move Illusion to A tier:
Why is this ability B tier? Illusion is found on a Pokemon that can't afford to make ANY mistakes, that's why it's commonly thought of as the "difficult to use" ability. The ability would be vastly different if you were to give Illusion to something like Terrakion or Garchomp it would be stupidly overpowered on them. You don't "need" skill to bluff with an Illusion Garchomp or Terrakion, one turn is enough for them to wreak havoc.
Move Solid Rock to A tier:
Solid Rock is a ridiculously good ability because it punishes you for doing what you're supposed to do in battle, hit Pokemon with super effective attacks. Solid Rock is the reason why people use Rhyperior in UU. It's typing its awful, but it's still used because it can tank ridiculously strong super effective hits. If you were to give Solid Rock to anything REMOTELY good you'd have a difficult time taking it down. Again, give this Garchomp or Terrakion and suddenly you have an extremely difficult Pokemon to counter. It's basically a pseudo Multiscale that works at ALL times, and we all know how powerful that ability is. Top tier ability, no about it.
Move Sand Veil to A tier:
We all know what this thing has done to Garchomp, but its effects are equally devastating on other Pokemon such as Gliscor and even lower tiered Pokemon like Cacturne. It's useless outside of tier that doesn't utilize sand, but so is sand rush and that's A tier. It's often underrated, which is wrong imo; It's godlike with a certain playstyle and not that useful for others.
Move Illusion to A tier:
Why is this ability B tier? Illusion is found on a Pokemon that can't afford to make ANY mistakes, that's why it's commonly thought of as the "difficult to use" ability. The ability would be vastly different if you were to give Illusion to something like Terrakion or Garchomp it would be stupidly overpowered on them. You don't "need" skill to bluff with an Illusion Garchomp or Terrakion, one turn is enough for them to wreak havoc.
Move Solid Rock to A tier:
Solid Rock is a ridiculously good ability because it punishes you for doing what you're supposed to do in battle, hit Pokemon with super effective attacks. Solid Rock is the reason why people use Rhyperior in UU. It's typing its awful, but it's still used because it can tank ridiculously strong super effective hits. If you were to give Solid Rock to anything REMOTELY good you'd have a difficult time taking it down. Again, give this Garchomp or Terrakion and suddenly you have an extremely difficult Pokemon to counter. It's basically a pseudo Multiscale that works at ALL times, and we all know how powerful that ability is. Top tier ability, no about it.