Hi all, for context, I've only been playing this tier for a few months now and the recent money tour was the first one I've ever participated in. I play ADV DOU mainly just because it's my favorite gen and I like Doubles more than Singles, so learning this enclosed meta and coming in as a complete newbie with pretty much no knowledge of how it played pre-Boom and Lati bans felt interesting.
Teams that I made, used, and won with in the recent ADV DOU Money Tour by zoe (Top 8). Special Thank You to Grandmas Cookin, oh the guilt, and Actuarily for helping me build some of my first teams, to Poli for helping introduce me to the tier, and to 2xNoodle for playing with me in practice and letting me save replays! I wouldn't have gotten this far without y'all!
Lead Bullmie with Celebi
Heal Bell Blissey and Crocune
Anti-Rain with Blissey and Crocune
Lead Bullmie with Metagross
Light Screen Blissey and Crocune
Rain
Lead Gyarapert with Flygon
Lead GyaraBull
Lead Gyaradactyl with Flygon
Lead Zapcune
Lead Gyaranine
I don't really like making or even know how to make VRs/Tier lists normally because I think they sort of narrow the context for the sake of easier visual literacy, but I thought I'd at least share my thoughts based on what I encountered during this tour. Specifically, I will only be talking about mons that I think might actually move up or down in their usage depending on how players utilize them in the future. IMO, there's not much to say about the high or low tiers as they are already very solidly well-established in the meta and will most likely not see much movement from their current positions unless something drastic happens (like they bring back Boom or something).
One of the rising stars I saw with the players I was matched against was Raikou. This is a mon I personally had very little experience with both facing and using prior outside of Rain teams where it's more of an appetizer than the main course, but on paper it should really thrive in the environment of ADV DOU since it is finally free from the threat of Dug in ADV Singles, and it absolutely does. Being able to outspeed and threaten both Bull and Zap (Arguably the best lead in the entire tier consisting of the 2 most overwhelming and overused mons) is crucial in its strength. A single CM or holding a Magnet gives it even more threatening, and sometimes even OHKO, potential if you pair it with Helping Hand Arc or Yama. But therein lies its weakness. Raikou does need quite a bit of babying due to the fact that it is very EQ vulnerable. I would say the one it has to watch out for the most is Aero, the fastest mon in the game that can easily OHKO it as long as the Aero hasn't been Intim'd. But that's also why it's not so hard to implement on most teams, what with Intim spam being so common and even pairing it with Fake Out Support from either Ludi or Yama can allow it to set up for free. On the subject of Ludi, of course, Raikou becomes the perfect fast Rain setter and Thunder spammer on Rain teams, something that was seen rather frequently during this tour due to the popularity of Amaranth's Gorebyss team. Another weakness you may have spotted is that due to strats like Lead Raikou needing so much support from specific picks such as Arc and Yama, you end up dealing with either a lead where both mons are weak to EQ, or a lead without Intim support, something to be aware of. Which is why Lead Rainkou with Ludi is so good, as Ludi not only provides Fake Out support, but is also both resistant to EQ while also being able to spam Hydro and Grass moves to OHKO any mons that threaten Raikou. With that said, I saw lots of different Raikous in this tour and plenty of them did not run any of the leads that I just talked about and still had decent results. Which means that this mon may not be as vulnerable or inflexible as one might think. Overall, Raikou is a bundle of surprisingly dense and powerful stats in ADV DOU. If you decide to run it, it can very easily either provide great support for the rest of your team or quickly gain momentum by dishing out fast and hard hitting damage in what is normally a low power meta as long as you know how to position it well.
Something you might notice as I continue discussing specific mons and their performance is how each consecutive mon seems to be a response/counter to the previous pick. And who better to start that trend off than our dear middle finger to every Electric spam, Marowak. This is a mon that I thought was highly underrated before this tour and not only did I end up bringing it on most of my teams (to great success I might add), but I also saw it being used by many others including my opps. With Lightning Rod and pure Ground typing providing complete Electric Immunity, it utterly shuts down any Electric attack (that isn't HP Electric) in a meta where Zapdos is king and Paraspam can be game ending, not to mention I just got done talking about how popular Raikou was becoming. Well, no more. With Maro on your team, you have absolutely nothing to fear. This mon is a popular pair up for all Water-types, such as Starmie or Suicune, but especially Gyarados who is allergic to Electric. "Gyarawak" allows you to provide support for Gyara to setup with DD while also spamming powerful STAB EQs without worrying about hitting your partner, and this also works for other Flying types like Aero, which is known for being exploitable due to how frail it is. Even with its low base stats, you can still build a very threatening Maro indeed. Especially since the one item everyone equips it with, the Thick Club, essentially gives it a pocket Huge Power. Maro also has access to more than just EQ for STAB, Bonemerang is a 2 times hitting 50 BP move that is exclusive to this mon, basically giving Maro a single target EQ that hits twice, damage calcs twice, and has a chance of crit-ing twice, all at the cost of 2 RN rolls on whether you miss or not. With 90 Accuracy, it's the player's choice whether to opt for this move over EQ or even have both on it at the same time, especially if you're that worried about hitting your partner, but the fact that you have this choice at all only increases Maro's viability even more. Ground STAB isn't the only thing great about this mon, it has a surprising amount of options available to it. To threaten Zap, Maro has access to either HP Rock (if you want consistent damage) or Ancient Power if you want another HP type (and if you hit that Omni-boost you become a serious problem for your opp even if you're slow and Intim'd). It also gets access to Counter and Icy Wind (seriously they gave this thing everything, 4 moveslot syndrome much?), providing utility by either slowing down the opponent's momentum or revenge killing hyper offensive setups. Though it doesn't change the fact that Maro's greatest weakness will always be the common threat of Superbi (CM Celebi). However, with things like Light Screen support and depending on how you build your own bulky Maro, it can actually potentially survive defensive Celebi's Giga Drain while also returning the favor with a hefty HP Bug. IMO this weakness is simply something you have to work with no matter what since Bi is on almost every team anyway. Utilizing good positioning with your Maro can be the most annoying thing your opp will ever encounter and the millions of options you have available to you in terms of building this mon to fit your specific needs easily earns it a spot on any team willing to try it.
Looky here, I just got done singing the praises of a Ground mon, and guess what's next? Starmie is another mon where on paper it has decent stats, coverage, and options, and therefore should be getting more usage, but doesn't seem to get much attention even though there aren't many other mons that can do what it does. For starters, it has the same Base Speed as Raikou, which means it easily outspeeds the majority of the meta aside from Aero, without sharing Raikou's crippling EQ weakness. It has insane coverage with STAB Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, HP Electric, Dual Screens, the list just goes on and on. This means it can also threaten the majority of the meta, including the aforementioned Aero since it can't be OHKO'd. Having Natural Cure means that it isn't forced to wield a Lum Berry, yielding the way to more useful items like Lefties or a Mystic Water. The issue on the floor is how much it's threatened by Zap and other common threats like Superbi (again). Even though it outspeeds, it cannot OHKO either of them with Ice Beam, but it can still do a decent chunk and sometimes that's enough. This is another mon that suffers from 4 move slot syndrome due to just how many things it gets, but that problem is easily solved when you realize exactly what purpose you want it to serve. Some ways I've seen it used is you can make it a fast bulky lead screen setter, go purely offensive, or both. Like Raikou, it's surprisingly not that frail, especially with both Intim and Maro support. Out of all the mons I've talked about so far, I've seen Starmie used the least, and even though I like to use it on my own teams, I agree that its neither the strongest nor the most viable mon out there. Still, there's nothing else quite like it in the current mon pool and I think there's a lot of potential here.
It's funny how each mon I talked about before is almost a reflection to how the meta might have slightly shifted over the course of the tour, as each one is a good response to the previous, but that trend stops here (kinda). There's really not much left to say about Aero tbh, but I wanted to ramble about it a little anyway. We all know this is the fastest mon in the tier, which means we know many of the speed tiers and breakpoints are balanced around this thing. We all know it pretty much has one set that everyone uses, which means we know how to counter it. What else is there to say? Well, I just wanted to add my perspective on the role of Aero on a team. IMO, Aero is not a real sweeper. It is almost never a true one shot wonder, not in a meta where it can't even always gurantee a kill on Zap with Ancient Power and especially not so if the Zap is even a little bulky or if the Aero has been Intim'd. The mileage you get out of this mon is solely dependent on how well you position it, usually in the late game. Aero can be used to force a switch early on, but its best usage is typically as a very fast vulture that picks off weakened foes. It can't truly threaten unless the opp has already received a certain amount of damage lest it be OHKO'd itself immediately after. I have had some games where this thing feels incredibly oppressive, and some where it does not. That said, I have come to see it as a sort of insurance. When I want to bring in the threat of a fast, decently hard hit that could potentially kill something that's just been sitting there enduring hits and dishing out damage from the opp's side, sometimes an Aero clean up is enough. But that still doesn't excuse its normally terrible switch in potential. This thing is made of paper and its typing only makes it good into EQ, as it cannot even handle a Bull's DEdge that well (but then again, what can amirite?). I honestly didn't respect Aero at first, but I've softened my views on it recently, as it still does certain things very well and there are times I feel like my team composition either becomes more, or would have been more, solid with an Aero on it. And that's usually a sign that the mon is still good for something. Arguably, part of taking your first steps into learning this meta is figuring out how to either maneuver your own Aero, or maneuver around your opp's Aero because of how careful the positioning of it needs to be to preserve its potential.
Analysis:
My summary of my thoughts on this metagame is, as it currently stands, it is incredibly exclusive. Very few mons can be used, and both the way they are used and their usage doesn't vary often. Any attempt at using mons that are too out there will be met with the crushing reality that you are just making things harder for yourself and is the equivalent of actively shooting yourself in the foot, but you can say this about pretty much any meta. It's only exemplified more than usual here because the pool of mons we get to choose from is so much smaller. And there is a benefit to this exclusivity. Each and every meta mon is designed to respond to each other perfectly in very specific ways and interactions, and when there are so few of them to consider, you can make incremental changes and strategies that can redefine how things usually pan out in a way that can pay off. Everyone already knows that the current ADV DOU's real main issue is that it's a chaotic RNG-ridden sloshfest where every 2X crit feels like your opp just personally reached through the monitor and slapped you five across the face, there are too many speed ties meaning your fate is left to a literal coin toss, being paralyzed feels like you just got diagnosed with the fastest acting strain of polio that would make even Christopher Reeve blush, and the monotony of an endgame usually being decided by 2 Celebis passive-aggressively staring each other down as they spam CM in one another's faces in a setup Cold War until they finally decide to attack and one is lucky enough to gut punch the other with one of the aforementioned crits. And you know what? I still like it more than any other gen I've tried because when things hit just right and you play a good game with a good opp, it can be really fun.
One of the rising stars I saw with the players I was matched against was Raikou. This is a mon I personally had very little experience with both facing and using prior outside of Rain teams where it's more of an appetizer than the main course, but on paper it should really thrive in the environment of ADV DOU since it is finally free from the threat of Dug in ADV Singles, and it absolutely does. Being able to outspeed and threaten both Bull and Zap (Arguably the best lead in the entire tier consisting of the 2 most overwhelming and overused mons) is crucial in its strength. A single CM or holding a Magnet gives it even more threatening, and sometimes even OHKO, potential if you pair it with Helping Hand Arc or Yama. But therein lies its weakness. Raikou does need quite a bit of babying due to the fact that it is very EQ vulnerable. I would say the one it has to watch out for the most is Aero, the fastest mon in the game that can easily OHKO it as long as the Aero hasn't been Intim'd. But that's also why it's not so hard to implement on most teams, what with Intim spam being so common and even pairing it with Fake Out Support from either Ludi or Yama can allow it to set up for free. On the subject of Ludi, of course, Raikou becomes the perfect fast Rain setter and Thunder spammer on Rain teams, something that was seen rather frequently during this tour due to the popularity of Amaranth's Gorebyss team. Another weakness you may have spotted is that due to strats like Lead Raikou needing so much support from specific picks such as Arc and Yama, you end up dealing with either a lead where both mons are weak to EQ, or a lead without Intim support, something to be aware of. Which is why Lead Rainkou with Ludi is so good, as Ludi not only provides Fake Out support, but is also both resistant to EQ while also being able to spam Hydro and Grass moves to OHKO any mons that threaten Raikou. With that said, I saw lots of different Raikous in this tour and plenty of them did not run any of the leads that I just talked about and still had decent results. Which means that this mon may not be as vulnerable or inflexible as one might think. Overall, Raikou is a bundle of surprisingly dense and powerful stats in ADV DOU. If you decide to run it, it can very easily either provide great support for the rest of your team or quickly gain momentum by dishing out fast and hard hitting damage in what is normally a low power meta as long as you know how to position it well.
Something you might notice as I continue discussing specific mons and their performance is how each consecutive mon seems to be a response/counter to the previous pick. And who better to start that trend off than our dear middle finger to every Electric spam, Marowak. This is a mon that I thought was highly underrated before this tour and not only did I end up bringing it on most of my teams (to great success I might add), but I also saw it being used by many others including my opps. With Lightning Rod and pure Ground typing providing complete Electric Immunity, it utterly shuts down any Electric attack (that isn't HP Electric) in a meta where Zapdos is king and Paraspam can be game ending, not to mention I just got done talking about how popular Raikou was becoming. Well, no more. With Maro on your team, you have absolutely nothing to fear. This mon is a popular pair up for all Water-types, such as Starmie or Suicune, but especially Gyarados who is allergic to Electric. "Gyarawak" allows you to provide support for Gyara to setup with DD while also spamming powerful STAB EQs without worrying about hitting your partner, and this also works for other Flying types like Aero, which is known for being exploitable due to how frail it is. Even with its low base stats, you can still build a very threatening Maro indeed. Especially since the one item everyone equips it with, the Thick Club, essentially gives it a pocket Huge Power. Maro also has access to more than just EQ for STAB, Bonemerang is a 2 times hitting 50 BP move that is exclusive to this mon, basically giving Maro a single target EQ that hits twice, damage calcs twice, and has a chance of crit-ing twice, all at the cost of 2 RN rolls on whether you miss or not. With 90 Accuracy, it's the player's choice whether to opt for this move over EQ or even have both on it at the same time, especially if you're that worried about hitting your partner, but the fact that you have this choice at all only increases Maro's viability even more. Ground STAB isn't the only thing great about this mon, it has a surprising amount of options available to it. To threaten Zap, Maro has access to either HP Rock (if you want consistent damage) or Ancient Power if you want another HP type (and if you hit that Omni-boost you become a serious problem for your opp even if you're slow and Intim'd). It also gets access to Counter and Icy Wind (seriously they gave this thing everything, 4 moveslot syndrome much?), providing utility by either slowing down the opponent's momentum or revenge killing hyper offensive setups. Though it doesn't change the fact that Maro's greatest weakness will always be the common threat of Superbi (CM Celebi). However, with things like Light Screen support and depending on how you build your own bulky Maro, it can actually potentially survive defensive Celebi's Giga Drain while also returning the favor with a hefty HP Bug. IMO this weakness is simply something you have to work with no matter what since Bi is on almost every team anyway. Utilizing good positioning with your Maro can be the most annoying thing your opp will ever encounter and the millions of options you have available to you in terms of building this mon to fit your specific needs easily earns it a spot on any team willing to try it.
Looky here, I just got done singing the praises of a Ground mon, and guess what's next? Starmie is another mon where on paper it has decent stats, coverage, and options, and therefore should be getting more usage, but doesn't seem to get much attention even though there aren't many other mons that can do what it does. For starters, it has the same Base Speed as Raikou, which means it easily outspeeds the majority of the meta aside from Aero, without sharing Raikou's crippling EQ weakness. It has insane coverage with STAB Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, HP Electric, Dual Screens, the list just goes on and on. This means it can also threaten the majority of the meta, including the aforementioned Aero since it can't be OHKO'd. Having Natural Cure means that it isn't forced to wield a Lum Berry, yielding the way to more useful items like Lefties or a Mystic Water. The issue on the floor is how much it's threatened by Zap and other common threats like Superbi (again). Even though it outspeeds, it cannot OHKO either of them with Ice Beam, but it can still do a decent chunk and sometimes that's enough. This is another mon that suffers from 4 move slot syndrome due to just how many things it gets, but that problem is easily solved when you realize exactly what purpose you want it to serve. Some ways I've seen it used is you can make it a fast bulky lead screen setter, go purely offensive, or both. Like Raikou, it's surprisingly not that frail, especially with both Intim and Maro support. Out of all the mons I've talked about so far, I've seen Starmie used the least, and even though I like to use it on my own teams, I agree that its neither the strongest nor the most viable mon out there. Still, there's nothing else quite like it in the current mon pool and I think there's a lot of potential here.
It's funny how each mon I talked about before is almost a reflection to how the meta might have slightly shifted over the course of the tour, as each one is a good response to the previous, but that trend stops here (kinda). There's really not much left to say about Aero tbh, but I wanted to ramble about it a little anyway. We all know this is the fastest mon in the tier, which means we know many of the speed tiers and breakpoints are balanced around this thing. We all know it pretty much has one set that everyone uses, which means we know how to counter it. What else is there to say? Well, I just wanted to add my perspective on the role of Aero on a team. IMO, Aero is not a real sweeper. It is almost never a true one shot wonder, not in a meta where it can't even always gurantee a kill on Zap with Ancient Power and especially not so if the Zap is even a little bulky or if the Aero has been Intim'd. The mileage you get out of this mon is solely dependent on how well you position it, usually in the late game. Aero can be used to force a switch early on, but its best usage is typically as a very fast vulture that picks off weakened foes. It can't truly threaten unless the opp has already received a certain amount of damage lest it be OHKO'd itself immediately after. I have had some games where this thing feels incredibly oppressive, and some where it does not. That said, I have come to see it as a sort of insurance. When I want to bring in the threat of a fast, decently hard hit that could potentially kill something that's just been sitting there enduring hits and dishing out damage from the opp's side, sometimes an Aero clean up is enough. But that still doesn't excuse its normally terrible switch in potential. This thing is made of paper and its typing only makes it good into EQ, as it cannot even handle a Bull's DEdge that well (but then again, what can amirite?). I honestly didn't respect Aero at first, but I've softened my views on it recently, as it still does certain things very well and there are times I feel like my team composition either becomes more, or would have been more, solid with an Aero on it. And that's usually a sign that the mon is still good for something. Arguably, part of taking your first steps into learning this meta is figuring out how to either maneuver your own Aero, or maneuver around your opp's Aero because of how careful the positioning of it needs to be to preserve its potential.
Analysis:
My summary of my thoughts on this metagame is, as it currently stands, it is incredibly exclusive. Very few mons can be used, and both the way they are used and their usage doesn't vary often. Any attempt at using mons that are too out there will be met with the crushing reality that you are just making things harder for yourself and is the equivalent of actively shooting yourself in the foot, but you can say this about pretty much any meta. It's only exemplified more than usual here because the pool of mons we get to choose from is so much smaller. And there is a benefit to this exclusivity. Each and every meta mon is designed to respond to each other perfectly in very specific ways and interactions, and when there are so few of them to consider, you can make incremental changes and strategies that can redefine how things usually pan out in a way that can pay off. Everyone already knows that the current ADV DOU's real main issue is that it's a chaotic RNG-ridden sloshfest where every 2X crit feels like your opp just personally reached through the monitor and slapped you five across the face, there are too many speed ties meaning your fate is left to a literal coin toss, being paralyzed feels like you just got diagnosed with the fastest acting strain of polio that would make even Christopher Reeve blush, and the monotony of an endgame usually being decided by 2 Celebis passive-aggressively staring each other down as they spam CM in one another's faces in a setup Cold War until they finally decide to attack and one is lucky enough to gut punch the other with one of the aforementioned crits. And you know what? I still like it more than any other gen I've tried because when things hit just right and you play a good game with a good opp, it can be really fun.
Teams that I made, used, and won with in the recent ADV DOU Money Tour by zoe (Top 8). Special Thank You to Grandmas Cookin, oh the guilt, and Actuarily for helping me build some of my first teams, to Poli for helping introduce me to the tier, and to 2xNoodle for playing with me in practice and letting me save replays! I wouldn't have gotten this far without y'all!
Lead Bullmie with Celebi
Heal Bell Blissey and Crocune
Anti-Rain with Blissey and Crocune
Lead Bullmie with Metagross
Light Screen Blissey and Crocune
Rain
Lead Gyarapert with Flygon
Lead GyaraBull
Lead Gyaradactyl with Flygon
Lead Zapcune
Lead Gyaranine
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