ADV OU GUIDE FOR ADV OPEN

Projectbetteryourself

Banned deucer.
DONE: U can ban! :)

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Ok, so as the ADV open has started I figured I might as well put my knowledge to good use and create a small guide for people who haven't touched the tier.


I. Differences in mechanics with newer generations

-BIGGEST MECHANIC:

Grass / Fire / Water / Electric / Psychic / Dark / Dragon / Ice moves are ALL special type while

Flying / Rock / Ground / Steel / Normal / Ghost / Fighting moves are all physical

Example. Crunch is a special attack so don't be a nub and use it on DD Tyranitar, you been warned!

Leftovers kick in at the start of the next turn. Say you kill a salamence with your tyranitar, after your opponent brings their next pokemon in only then do BOTH your leftovers activate.

No choice scarf, Life Orb or Choice Specs, only Choice Band which makes it harder to revenge using speed only. hence alot of teams are relatively bulky even if they are offensive.

Same mechanics as DPP:

- You can paralyze Electric types and sleep Grass types With spore/sleep powder.

- Sleep turns do not reset upon switching.

- Steel types resist Dark and Ghost type attacks.

- Ghosts can get trapped via abilities.

- Explosion halves the defense of the target.

-Sturdy ONLY protects against one hit KO moves such as Sheer Cold, Fissure etc.

- Volt Switch doesn't exist.

- Extremespeed has +1 priority, Eg. Weavile Ice Shard can outpace Dragonite's Extremespeed granted D Nite didn’t get any DD boosts/Agility to be faster than Weavile.

- No fairy types exist.

- No team preview.

- Encore lasts 2 to 5 turns while Taunt lasts for 2 turns.


II. Roles in ADV OU

http://pastebin.com/6hxRkU6S

III. Metagame knowledge in a pickle


http://www.smogon.com/dex/rs/tags/ou

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/adv-viability-ranking-ou.3503019/

Ok, where to start from.

  • Two trappers, Magneton and Dugtrio are very common. I'm pretty sure everyone knows what they do which is basically trap Skarmory/choice locked Metagross/Forretress/opposing magneton (Magneton) and Raikou/Celebi/Metagross/Tyranitar/Jirachi/Magneton/Heracross and any weakened mon in all honesty (Dugtrio). Therefore it is important to not bring in Pokemon weak to these two recklessly and it is a very common tactic to double switch anticipating a trapper to come in. Revealing each team member is super vital in ADV and dictates alot of the match.
  • ADV is much slower paced than other newer metagames due to the lack of Life Orb and other items in addition to the mechanics that prevent top tier threats such as Gyarados doing real damage. Therefore you must be able to play cautiously and not sack Pokemon randomly.
  • Balance really rules this metagame with the ability to pose a real threat whilst maintaining a solid defensive backbone.
How to play?

Depends on the style of team you are using. If you are using an offensive team you need to force switches, expect the opponent to perhaps bait your trapper early by bringing in their skarmory or whatever trap-prone mon and then double the next turn as you do bring your trapper. There are cases of where the trapper becomes trapped!

Stall teams require you to get up hazards quickly but safely, don't let Forretress take 3 hard hits or so just to get up 3 spikes when it is one of the primary counters to whatever is hitting it repeatedly. That offensive mindset can cause you to sack unneededly when using stall. Get up hazards followed by forcing switches by setting up with your blissey / Suicune or whatever, you wont necessarily be able to sweep with them first time round but you kinda force your opponent to bring out whatever counters they have in store and then play around them by racking up hazard and possibly sand residual damage.

Balance is the best playstyle as mentioned and usually has spikes on board. Get hazards up and simply start to abuse them by hitting with your choice banders/ eventually the so-called counters wont be able to come in more then twice usually as long as they're prone to spikes. Balance teams thrive on the trapper on board so make sure you make full use of it.

Be very wary of Baton Pass, not only as a method of passing boosts but as a method of luring Pokemon and trapping them.

I don't have the replay but turn xx I had my zapdos on a weakened Suicune, They needed Suicune to "counter" my leftovers Metagross and thus brought in their Magneton to take the hit, knowing I wont dare somehow read that and bring in my dutrio if i had one. I simply used Baton Pass predicting the switch which is a safe play considering I had a healthy Celebi, and then baton passed to my Dugtrio thus taking out Magneton. Thing is I now had a free reign of terror with my Skarmory who walled literally 3/6 of his team lol. Baton Pass is seen on Celebi, Zapdos and Vaporeon to lure things that Dugtrio shits on.

Common late-game sweepers:

http://pastebin.com/4LxUByzL


IV. Teambuilding in ADV OU

I'm pretty sure most people will simply borrow teams from well established players to avoid the hassle of building but it isn't hard at all to make a good team in this metagame. It is fairly balanced and one can make fairly underrated threats work well provided the correct support. Nonetheless this is for a high stakes tournament and it is best to save most of that creativity for other times.

Stall teams are very widespread and for good reason, there arent as many wallbreakers in other generations and with the lack of many items, trick, and insane offensive behemoths stall is very viable. However balance teams really have it easy, being able to exert good amount of offensive pressure whilst having a solid defensive backbone.

While it is hard to say there is a single formula which works for any teambuilding process, the good news is that you can use whatever you feel works for you and play with so long as it isnt something outrageously silly. Few examples below



Swampert / Tyranitar / Celebi / Magneton / Salamence / Suicune

Made it in 10 seconds by starting off with using a mixed Tyranitar to wallbreak, added a dd Salamence as a lategame sweeper, Swampert and Celebi make a great defensive backbone whilst Suicune provides additional defensive support and can set up. Magneton takes out Skarmory who stops salamence from sweeping.

A stall team..

Celebi / Dugtrio / Starmie / Swampert / Blissey / Skarmory

Another quick one, started by using a core of Blissey + Swampert + Celebi, added Skarmory for spikes, Starmie to spin and provide something relatively fast to hurt offensive threats and then finished with Dugtrio to take out Magneton's who will love to take out skarmory / Metagross / Mix tars etc.


See, teambuilding ain't hard!! :)

V. Sample teams

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ozymandias.3533733/ by Smurf / Golden Sun
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/querencia.3521102/ by McMeghan
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/nær-sólen-gar-niþer-for-evogher.3521490/ by BKC
http://pastebin.com/RCxAwLnK by SOMALIA
http://pastebin.com/5C8AWcK2 by SOMALIA

If you need more help feel free to PM me on Pokemon Showdown.

VI. Awkward Mons

There are a few underrated or very rare Pokemon however it is important to know what they do.

Tauros: Very good choice band Pokemon and lures in Skarmory / Forretress, both of which get trapped.
Breloom: Not as good as in gen 4 however can still spore and hit with Focus Punch, generally runs hp Ghost for Celebi and Gengar who otherwise wall it otherwise to hell and back.
Kingdra: Rain Dance + Hydro Pump = death. Very self explanatory, it wont be using Dragon Dance as both its STAB attacks are special.
Weezing: Decent defensive wall, Heracross is a beast and very underrated, this is one of the few Pokemon that can take hits from it well.

Last tip, please use a damage calculator in your battles, just because every Aerodactyl seems to be banded does not guranatee once in a while you wont encounter a taunt variant that'll *^%$ you up. Calcs are useful and can give you a rough idea on the item held, the ev spread and of course, whether you'll live in the worst case scenario.

I wanted to post this brief guide in hopes it helps...if anyone wants to add anything feel free to edit this or w.e. I only made this account to make this and it'd be banned soon anyways so it'd be best to catch me on showdown or skype:mi21081991 if you need more detailed explanation etc.
~SOMALIA
 
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You should probably have asked someone else to post it for you... Still, good job!

One thing though: I don't think stall is used a lot in modern ADV (well, depend on what you call stall). You are correct when you say that balance rule this gen.
 
Even though spikes aren't as prevalent as they once were, I think it should be important to emphasize that teams need to have some way of dealing with spikes, unless you know your opponent won't bring them. Be it magneton, a bunch of flyers/levitators, rapid spin, or just not giving spikers the chance to set up, every team needs to have something. Also if using forretress for rapid spin, you need some sort of way of dealing with gar. This being said of course, if your team is invested in using spikes, you can't just throw a spiker on there and call it good, your team needs to be able to deal with the things listed previously in order to abuse the spikes.

Otherwise great job!
 
I don't know if i missed it in your post, but one of the most important mechanics in ADV is the fact that the end of turn is declared the moment a Pokemon dies. This makes Explosion really exploitable as you can prevent your opponent from say setting up a second DD or getting up that sub. Makes trapping with Dugtrio that much simpler. This mechanic makes Double-Edge on Tauros and even DD Tyranitar a pretty decent option over the alternatives (i can remember two crucial games off the top of my head where a Tyranitar suicide saved me the game). Also gives you a reason to stockpile on Pokemon that will die on the next spikes switch in.

And some rules of thumb for new users when it comes to team-building:
1) Try to carry at least two rock resists otherwise Aero/Tyranitar will rip you to shreds. No way round that.

2) No matter what, a team without a proper Gengar check is bound to fail. Blissey/Regice/Snorlax are the safe bets usually. Celebi can be used in a pinch but you want an alternative to go with it as Gengar can sleep his way round it. Jolteon if you want a fast paced team fits the spot too. Restalk Magneton if you really can't afford a teamslot. Make sure you can outmaneuver Dugtrio switch-ins for the last.

3) Either prepare for dealing with Spikes or ensure your opponent never gets more than two layers down. First one can be dealt with by running Starmie/Claydol or running 5/6 fliers/levitaters in the team. The latter either by running Magneton or at least 5/6 of your team being mixed attackers.

4) Blissey is rarer these days, but definitely find your ways around it. Worst case scenario you are running 4/6 special attackers with no recovery moves against a Thunder Wave Bliss. Either pack your team with physical attackers that can setup on it or outmaneuver it with sandstorm/spikes + taunt to prevent it from recovering.

5) Never forget your Heracross counter. Had this happen to me on so many of my teams its not even funny. Skarmory is generally not enough as its usually paired with a pesky Magneton. Mence acts as a good check to it, Aero can revenge prior to Salac and Dugtrio can trap it after you sac something.

6) Lax/Cune checks. Skarmory is good against Snorlax but nowadays teams using lax have found their ways around it. Seed Celebi is pretty awesome against it for that matter. If you don't think you have room for a phazer (say you aren't using Spikes on your team) i'd suggest running two exploders to compensate for that. However Roar will save your ass more times than you'd give it credit for.

7) Last but not least, make sure you have an answer to boltbeam spammers and the electrics. Zapdos and Raikou can tear a team to pieces if you don't have a dedicated counter. Again, Snorlax/Bliss/Regice are the solid answers. Swampert/Flygon combined allow you to wall the respective Hidden Power variants. Steelix walls all common electrics but it can't really touch Zapdos in return. Camerupt is a pretty nifty Electrics counter that gets boom. Really hard to wall if you don't have say a Gyarados or a Mence.

More or less the first thoughts that come to my head when i build a new ADV team. I'd definitely encourage people to be creative, a pre-made team will only get you so far before you get heavily counter-teamed.
 
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I agree with everything said above, also add to the list checks to heavy offensive teams: Physical Offense, CMSpam and Baton Passing teams are all very threatening to a lot of teams and are very common at the higher level.

Physical Offense: Basically a stack of Physical attackers with a few glues to stabilise the team: Salamence, Metagross, Aerodactyl, Tyranitar, Snorlax and more all feature heavily on these teams, while glues are stuff like Swampert, Flygon, Magneton (to remove Skarm), and Zapdos (Toxics Pert and pressures other Bulky Waters and Physical walls. Against these Skarm is the no-brainer, but a lot of these have Mag or some other lure (CB Metagross for example), so you're gonna want some backup there. Swampert, Bulky WoW Gengar, Wish+BSlam Jirachi (beats Aero+CurseLax+MixMence) are some fun options to handle these. Relying on faster mons like Aero and Jolt to pick off weakened mons can work (don't use Dug as a surprising amount of these teams are airborne)

CMSpam: This thing went viral circa 201w after JabbatheGriffin posted this team using 3 CMers: Celebi/Jirachi and Suicune, all offensive, to overwhelm special walls and sweep late game. Raikou can work on these teams but it's a lot more offensive, you'll probably prefer the defensive utility of the former 3. As for checking these teams a special wall is obligatory: Bliss/Lax/Regice are common but there are ways around these so be careful. Zapdos can be handy as it stops Cele, shreds Cune and can annoy Jirachi, plus if you run Light Screen you have a lot more versatility. Lastly is the option of using faster mons: Flygon, Mence, Aerodactyl, and Dugtrio all work really well here.

BP Teams: Probably the most annoying to play against, as +2, +2 Metagross is so darn scary. Basically the principle behind these is to bring in Celebi, grab an SD, them optionally shred whatever switched in on if (assuming it's standard TTAR, Lax, Houndoom etc), or pass to an Agility Metagross who then takes you straight to the cleaners. Against these.....if you can Taunt the Celebi before it passes that's golden, problem is only one Taunter dares to take on SD Celebi and these kinds of teams will usually pack Mag to deal with it. Pert can still check Agility Metagross (sort of), Gengar can burn it if you're lucky, and if you can force it to explode that's also great. Meteor Mash accuracy also sucks as well so you can try to take advantage of that (that should be the last ditch option)

Hope I helped out, by explaining about some other fun playstyles and how to keep them from curbstomping you.
 
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