Lower Tiers ADV RU

[LpZ]

art by Gaboswampert
approved by Hiro'

Welcome to the official thread of the unofficial tier of ADV RU! A recent development based off of the large pool of rarely used pokemon and viability ranking of ADV UU, pokemon ranked C+ and lower end up here, as well as all the NU legal pokemon.
Here you will find resources such as Viability Rankings, Sample Teams, Set Compendium, Speed Tiers and the discussion about the metagame. You can have an extra taste of the tier joining our Discord server, where you can find people to discuss, play and build with, and just to have a good time. We hope you enjoy ADV RU!
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ADV Mechanics & Battle Clauses

• Species Clause: A player's team cannot contain two Pokémon with the same National Pokédex number.
• Sleep Clause: If a player has already put a Pokémon on his/her opponent's side to sleep and it is still sleeping, another one can't be put to sleep.
• Evasion Clause: A Pokémon's moveset cannot contain the moves Double Team or Minimize.
• OHKO Clause: A Pokémon's moveset cannot contain the moves Fissure, Guillotine, Horn Drill, or Sheer Cold.
• Endless Battle Clause: A player cannot intentionally prevent an opponent from being able to end the game without forfeiting.
• Baton Pass Clause: A Pokémon's moveset cannot contain the move Baton Pass.
• Arena Trap Clause: A Pokémon cannot have the ability Arena Trap.

ADV Mechanics:

• There is no team preview, your first Pokemon sent out is the first one in your team.
• A move being physical or special is determined by the type of the move.
  • Physical moves: Normal, Fighting, Rock, Ground, Ghost, Poison, Steel, Bug, Flying
  • Special moves: Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Ice, Psychic, Dark, Dragon
    • This means Hidden Power can be Physical as well as Special.
• Steel resists Dark and Ghost.
• Many items do not exist yet, notably Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, Expert Belt, Eviolite, and more.
• Grass-types can be affected by powder moves. Electric-types can be paralyzed by Thunder Wave.
• Rest and Sleep Talk work weirdly, read this post for more information.
• Explosion and Self-Destruct halve Defense in the damage calculation, so their powers may be listed as 500 and 400 respectively.
• Wish is not based on the user's HP and only heals 50% of the max HP of the receiver.

RUBL

Fearow
Ninjask
Jumpluff*

*This pokemon is not banned due to being problematic to the tier, it has just been decided to keep it away from the tier as it is a newcomer to ADV UU, once it gets playtime in UU and it is judged fair to drop it will be tested here.

List of Legal UU Pokemon

Absol
Aggron
Azumarill
Banette
Camerupt
Exploud
Girafarig
Hypno
Kabutops
Magmar
Mantine
Meganium
Mr. Mime
Ninetales
Persian
Politoed
Poliwrath
Primeape
Quagsire
Raichu
Rapidash
Sharpedo
Shiftry
Sneasel
Stantler
Victreebel

Viability Rankings

Pokemon are ordered within their ranks alphabetically. The list does not include every legal Pokemon.


S Rank
Glalie
Metang
Politoed

A+ Rank
Haunter
Ninetales
Persian
Raichu
Sableye

A Rank
Chimecho
Hitmonchan
Magmar
Primeape
Roselia
Stantler

A- Rank
Mantine
Mr. Mime
Poliwrath
Quagsire
Wailord

B+ Rank
Banette
Flareon
Girafarig
Huntail
Octillery

B Rank
Aggron
Golbat
Hypno
Kabutops
Kingler
Meganium
Relicanth
Sharpedo
Sneasel
Swalot
Torkoal

B- Rank
Camerupt
Exploud
Pupitar
Rapidash
Raticate
Shiftry
Victreebel

C+ Rank
Azumarill
Cacturne
Pelipper
Pidgeot
Pikachu
Sudowoodo
Vigoroth
Wartortle

C Rank
Absol
Bellossom
Lickitung

Sample Teams & Set Compendium

[click on the sprites for importable]
- Sunny Day Victreebel Offense by LpZ
- Salac Stantler Bulky Offense by EllingtonReborn
- SD Meganium Bulky Offense by Queen of Bean
- Flareon + Huntail Offense by EllingtonReborn
- Belly Drum Poliwrath Offense by EllingtonReborn
- Mr. Mime Balance by Tack
- Bulk Up Poliwrath Balance by EllingtonReborn
- Curse Quagsire Stall by Queen of Bean
- Lead Hypno Paraspam by Queen of Bean

Set Compendium

Speed Tiers

Speed	Pokémon	Base	Nature	EVs	IVs	±
590	Girafarig	85	Positive	252	31	+2
538	Girafarig	85	Neutral	252	31	+2
516	Shiftry	80	Neutral	252	30	+2
483	Raticate	97	Positive	252	31	+1
478	Mantine	70	Neutral	252	31	+2
478	Victreebel	70	Neutral	252	31	+2
475	Haunter	95	Positive	252	31	+1
475	Primeape	95	Positive	252	31	+1
475	Sharpedo	95	Positive	252	31	+1
469	Magmar	93	Positive	252	31	+1
446	Huntail	52	Positive	252	31	+2
442	Stantler	85	Positive	252	31	+1
426	Kabutops	80	Positive	252	31	+1
406	Huntail	52	Neutral	252	31	+2
388	Kabutops	80	Neutral	252	31	+1
344	Bellossom	50	Neutral	148	30	+2
339	Rapidash	105	Positive	252	31	0
333	Banette	65	Neutral	224	30	+1
331	Kingler	75	Neutral	140	31	+1
331	Pupitar	51	Positive	252	31	+1
330	Metang	50	Neutral	116	31	+2
329	Persian	115	Neutral	252	31	0
329	Sneasel	115	Neutral	252	31	0
329	Rapidash	105	Positive	216	31	0
328	Ninetales	100	Positive	252	31	0
328	Raichu	100	Positive	252	31	0
322	Poliwrath	70	Neutral	156	31	+1
322	Raticate	97	Positive	252	31	0
317	Haunter	95	Positive	252	31	0
317	Primeape	95	Positive	252	31	0
317	Sharpedo	95	Positive	252	31	0
313	Magmar	93	Positive	252	31	0
309	Pidgeot	91	Positive	252	31	0
306	Mr. Mime	90	Positive	252	31	0
306	Golbat	90	Positive	252	31	0
306	Pikachu	90	Positive	252	31	0
295	Stantler	85	Positive	252	31	0
295	Girafarig	85	Positive	252	31	0
284	Kabutops	80	Positive	252	31	0
284	Glalie	80	Positive	252	31	0
276	Hitmonchan	76	Positive	252	31	0
269	Girafarig	85	Neutral	252	31	0
269	Stantler	85	Neutral	252	31	0
262	Mantine	70	Positive	252	31	0
262	Victreebel	70	Positive	252	31	0
259	Kabutops	80	Neutral	252	31	0
258	Shiftry	80	Neutral	252	30	0
251	Hitmonchan	76	Neutral	252	31	0
248	Absol	75	Neutral	252	31	0
241	Meganium	80	Neutral	180	31	0
239	Mantine	70	Neutral	252	31	0
238	Victreebel	70	Neutral	252	30	0
232	Hitmonchan	76	Neutral	176	31	0
230	Kabutops	80	Neutral	136	31	0
225	Vigoroth	90	Neutral	36	31	0
223	Huntail	52	Positive	252	31	0
222	Banette	65	Neutral	224	31	0
222	Flareon	65	Neutral	224	31	0
221	Kingler	75	Neutral	140	31	0
221	Pupitar	51	Positive	252	31	0
210	Girafarig	85	Neutral	16	31	0
210	Hypno	67	Neutral	160	31	0
205	Politoed	70	Neutral	116	31	0
205	Chimecho	65	Neutral	160	30	0
205	Banette	65	Neutral	160	30	0
203	Huntail	52	Neutral	252	31	0
201	Glalie	80	Neutral	20	31	0
200	Poliwrath	70	Neutral	96	31	0
200	Mantine	70	Neutral	96	31	0
200	Meganium	80	Neutral	16	31	0
176	Wailord	60	Neutral	84	31	0
172	Exploud	68	Neutral	0	31	0
172	Chimecho	65	Neutral	28	30	0
172	Bellossom	50	Neutral	148	30	0
172	Azumarill	50	Neutral	144	31	0
172	Aggron	50	Neutral	144	31	0
171	Metang	50	Neutral	140	31	0
170	Hypno	67	Neutral	0	31	0
166	Roselia	65	Neutral	0	31	0
166	Flareon	65	Neutral	0	31	0
166	Pelipper	65	Neutral	0	31	0
165	Metang	50	Neutral	116	31	0
152	Wartortle	58	Neutral	0	31	0
149	Flareon	65	Negative	0	31	0
146	Swalot	55	Neutral	0	31	0
146	Relicanth	55	Neutral	0	31	0
139	Sudowoodo	30	Neutral	172	31	0
138	Camerupt	40	Neutral	88	31	0
138	Aggron	50	Neutral	8	31	0
137	Octillery	45	Neutral	44	31	0
137	Azumarill	50	Neutral	4	31	0
136	Metang	50	Neutral	0	31	0
136	Sableye	50	Neutral	0	31	0
117	Camerupt	40	Negative	4	31	0
106	Quagsire	35	Neutral	0	31	0
97	Sudowoodo	30	Neutral	4	31	0
96	Lickitung	30	Neutral	0	31	0
95	Quagsire	35	Negative	0	31	0
70	Quagsire	35	Neutral	0	31	-1
68	Torkoal	20	Negative	0	31	0

Challenge Command

/challenge gen3uu @@@ -Altaria, -Ampharos, -Arcanine, -Blastoise, -Clefable, -Cradily, -Electabuzz, -Electrode, -Fearow, -Feraligatr, -Gligar, -Golduck, -Golem, -Gorebyss, -Granbull, -Grumpig, -Hitmonlee, -Hitmontop, -Jumpluff, -Kangaskhan, -Lanturn, -Lunatone, -Manectric, -Misdreavus, -Muk, -Nidoking, -Nidoqueen, -Ninjask, -Omastar, -Pinsir, -Qwilfish, -Sandslash, -Scyther, -Slowking, -Solrock, -Tentacruel, -Vileplume, -Walrein, -Xatu

Tiering Council:
LpZ
EllingtonReborn
BigFatMantis
Queen of Bean
Tack
Feliburn

 

[EllingtonReborn]

WHEW I am very glad we got the thread up, this tier has been a huge delight to work on with LpZ! I'm really glad that we made eveyrthing come into fruition with the tour bringing us to this stage of development! I want to start off just by putting in my own PERSONAL VR with brief explanations on my placings, more detailed for the better mons and less detailed for the worse ones, you know how this goes.

S

Glalie is the definite best mon in the tier for me. Spikers are mandatory here and Spikes as a whole make up 50% of this whole meta and determine the entire earlygame strategies in top level ADV RU. Besides Spikes, Glalie is a great mon itself with its ability to wall haunter, waters, raichu, etc and keep up progress with boom. I rarely go Glalie-less and for good reason, every mon is better with Spikes up and Glalie is the most effective at setting them.

Its very funny because week 1 of ADV RU's conception I thought Politoed was bad. But no, its quite the opposite. Politoed is the best water in the tier, Damp is such an incredible ability in a meta a multitude of explosion mons, it hits pretty hard, and its quite bulky. Politoed has the perfect blend of offense by having perfect coverage and being hard to switch into, as well as defense because of its bulk, good resistances, and Damp. Just like how every team needs a Spiker, every team should have a water, and I'd say Politoed is the tried and true beast that makes ADV RU what it is.

Metang is a great tank that has a bevvy of resistances as well as strong physical STAB and boom, making it one of the best progress makers in the tier. Metang fits on every single team style and I really appreciate how much work it does on a game-to-game basis, as a defensive pivot, as a wallbreaker, or as a cleaner with Agility, and it can fulfill multiple of these roles in a single game. Metang is a goated gluemon, always in my S.

Sableye is one of the best walls in the tier because of no weaknesses and 32 PP Recover, similar to Toed many physically-based mons like Stantler and Hitmonchan will use Toxic to break down Sab, and it isn't entirely passive either because of Knock Off in a tier where Spikes are permanent and lots of offensive mons dont like switching into a SToss with a spike up. Haunter has been giving Sab a run for its money lately in the Ghost slot and in the official VR its basically right next to Haunter, but its undeniable that Sab warps the tier and has a large amount of notable threats to wall despite its ground neutrality.

A+

Haunter is an amazing offensive mon here, it is one of the best Spikes abusers, and it can trade itself 1 for 2 with Boom/DBond. It also serves as a very useful pivot to some key offensive threats like Stantler Persian Hitmonchan and CB Primeape, it mixes Sableyes defensive qualities well with Banette's offensive qualities, and if someone said that it were S I would not be one to judge.

The only Electric in the tier and amazing petaya sweeper, its speed and coverage lets it shut down a lot of offense. Lately i've been experimenting with Thief too to catch Glalie/Roselia/Quag switchins, Raichu's a great breaker overall and one that teams need to respect.

Best physical wallbreaker no doubt. Switching into Stantler is a very tall task because it has ways to mess with nNormal resists too, which means when you are in as a slower mon you have to be able to eat a hit from a mon that basically spams Explosion. Stantler also wins basically every interaction with faster things (that isnt CB Ape) at full health, only beaten by certain offense once it gets down to a certain range of Magmar FBlast or Raichu Tbolt. It does have issues with no immediate Speed control though if it doesn't use Salac.

Persian is the most defining lead in the tier rn as well as the best CB Normal. It has two lead sets that are consistent at beating other leads and have different forms of counterplay, and even as a backmon you are mostly limited to defensive counterplay besides of its blisteringly fast speed. I still consider Stantler the slighty better normal breaker but Persian is amazing both earlygame and lategame.

If you saw my early VRs you'd be like "woah what is swagmar doing down there?" I think its awkward speed missing the Haunter/Primeape benchmark gets the better of it, as well as there's Toed everywhere to mess with it. But no doubt, it still does Magmar things and is imo still the best fire that goes crazy in some endgames, its just that while more Fires shown themselves as viable, Fires have been nerfed by more Toed.

Ape is solid, its moreso that it lends itself to being constricting, you need something that speed ties or outspeeds it and you need a ground immune to pivot into it. CB is explosive, Bulk Up is quite good too. Even if i dont use a lot of Ape over Chan in my builds I respect it a lot.

A

Call me crazy but I think that Tales is overrated. Its offensive qualities come down to it being fast and able to take a hit. Its SpA is underwhelming even when it can OHKO Haunter w FBlast, Wisp can be evaded with Lum / a fire that trades well into it (flareon torkoal camel), and in general its only method of counterplay to waters is spreading passive damage. Other fires like Magmar and Flareon have things like TPunch or DEdge respectively for Toed, while still being able to Toxic walls if they want to, but Tales is very reliant on passive damage to make progress in a tier as fast-paced as this. I still think its solid though, it walls things, it wisps things, its a fire that threatens glalie/metang/haunter cores. I just dont think its on the level as the mons in A+ and you can call me crazy for thinking that.

Roselia falls under the same kind of overrated as Tales does, I dont really feel that comfy loading Tales/Rose/Chime balances consistently but that's me. Roselia really has to fight for the spiker slot over Glalie and Glalie makes more progress every time, its just that Rose walls things even in a fast paced tier, but Toed still 2HKOs it after spikes with ice beam. It has its places and I do think it's useful on some structures, its just my meta view that makes me less high on it.

2nd best lead, whoops ass with AOA sets, Mach as priority stifles the likes of Raichu Persian and Poliwrath, amazing offensive glue as a physical wallbreaker akin to Stantler. Just in A because it has common troubles with Sableye and this next mon......

Chimecho is one of the best Fighter walls and ground immunes, enables offense and defense well, very great source of glue as a team player (being one of the only viable clerics in the tier and great screens passer) and solo threat with CM. I would say it's the tiers best Psychic.

A-

Best win condition mon in the tier rn, both Belly Drum and Bulk Up. It's obscene how well this thing sets up on Glalie and Metang, Damp is just so good and I've made Poliwrath 6-0 on a whim numerous times.

Fire wall, Raichu wall, Metang wall, and this thing has Damp as a cursemon???? Quag is a great bulky water and Curse user, if Primeape isn't your reason for running a ground immune, this should be. The large lack of HP Grass in the tier (because Fires usually run HP Water and Raichu can run HP Ice for Rose) is great for Quag. It offers great walling compression but I usually find Toed easier to slot.

Offensive mixed wallbreaker, defensive wish passer, Flareon is both versatile and good at what it does, the fact that Toed cant switch into DEdge with a spike up really helps a lot of offensive mons that hate bulky waters like Huntail and Agility Metang. There's much more room for Flare to grow and I heavily underrated it when ADV RU was first being played.

Toed existing doesn't make Wailord unviable, there are definite situations where boom is useful such as Calm Mind users, WAbsorb Quag, and Meganium. I mean its still a bulky water with similar offensive stats, you dont lose too much not using Toed.

Less detail going onward...

B+

Nothing switches into Banette. It's an amazing wallbreaker and lead compared to other Ghosts. iirc this is the only physical attacker that consistently 2HKOs most Sab after spikes.

SubTox can actually a pretty dire situation if Mantine gets set up, I just dont like using it as a water even with its ground immunity because it loses to other waters. Rain might be worth exploring, defensive sets are trash.

Best rain sweeper in the tier and great endgame cleaner, but has some consistency issues with its bulky water removal-reliance and Hydro accuracy, might just be me though.

Sabs worst nightmare and great offensive tank outside of that, its slow but it eats basically every hit imaginable, and has good flexibility in its last moveslot between boom, SBall for Haunter/Chime, and counter.

Great defensive pivot for a fire into Hitmonchan and Metang and it booms too! Largely underrated mon; I would be clowned on just putting it here but I think Tork is very solid and I've been helping it develop.

B

A- is a stretch even to me. Mime is inconsistent but at least it sets up on Toed and stuff, I just am pressed to call it a great offensive mon when it only half-checks things and relies on hypnosis accuracy to save it against Metang and SBall Sab. Its still a good wallbreaker though I suppose, I just use Chime 80% more.

Walls the hell out of Chimecho and is a great cleaner with no Bulky Water/Hitmonchan standing in its way, its a good thing its stronger than Toed and has Crunch for SpDef drops. Frailty can get the better of it at times, though.

Solid lead even in the era of Persian/Hitmonchan. Its role is limited to lead and I dont put it in B+ because its job at its role is slowly fading to me, but who knows I might have some hope left still.

Swords Dance + EQ + Raichu check, pretty hard to kill without Toxic or a Fire too, but Meganium is limiting on the structures you build around it because of its Fire weakness.

Actually a great pivot to Normals, something I can say actually checks Stantler the most reliably, and is pretty solid into Fires too. Might be some potential to explore CB sets alongside Kabu and Aggron but I would say Relicanth hasn't proved itself too much and suffers from being Metang/Poliwrath food.

ANNOYINGGGGGGGG I'm jk at least unlike other wincons you can boom on it, but it can actually be dire to take it out if your CMer counterplay is Toxic, immunity to Sab's SBall is very unique.

B-

I didn't expect the cringe crab to be as good as it became, but its a good lead rn unironically with its EndSalac Flail set. Watching it go 6-0 in tour was a delight to see.

Vic has a pretty high offensive ceiling utilizing either SD or Sunny Day but bc Fires are pretty fast in RU, it can be hard to get Vic going until specific endgame situations, which is hard to do with not a lot of defensive utility to its name.

I don't see a lot of Apes run Rock Slide but if they did this mon is the sole reason why, pretty decent CBer even with Metang around. Ik QoB rly loves this thing but I just think Batzy is solid.

Bad Wish user unlike Flareon and not the best special wall you can ask for but its lead set is actually quite good. Its few losing lead matchups it has it makes decent progress into anyway, Hypno is generally a pain to play around and is a very effective Counter user.

Relic mon for sure and it can't really switch into or wall anything but I do think CB has revitalized my love for Camel, nailing Politoed for 70% makes it dangerous to switch into, and all that means is if you wear down any Damp mons enough its boom is very likely to connect when it comes back in. I think Camel as a lead might be brought back with the lesser popularity of lead Raichu and Octillery, but ig we'll just see.

I never would've thought Exploud would make it here, but its mixed SubToxic set is nothing to sneeze at when you get it set up. It's generally harder to fit over Stantler but it does have that better matchup into Metang Sab and the occasional Wisp Haunter.

Dash is the worst viable fire, usually outclassed by Magmar and Flareon. I place it here out of courtesy because of its Speed making it a decent Petaya user giving it much needed power. People really like Tales though.

Out of the entirety of the ADV RU playerbase I am the only belleiver and its a damn shame it is that way. Bell has a much easier time setting up over Vic because it makes better use of its resists, notably setting up on Toed, Petaya Raichu, and Quag. I do think that gives it more semblance of viability than some dogwater mon like Shiftry (who is the same in power but frailer and Hitmonchan Mach weak).

C+

Rocks are solid but are difficult to set up with, Sneasel is like Persian but without STAB and suffers a lot from Hitmonchan's prevelance, Vigoroth deserves experimentation with Bulk Up sets but Ghost's popularity gives it some 4MSS between EQ and SBall, Raticate is basically worse Persian but it has Guts and reliable priority.

C / UR

Idrc enough to talk about these mons much but u can prob draw your own conclusions, no I don't think Shiftry is very viable.

Lastly I want to share a couple of cool sets that I've been cooking up with brief rationale:

Silk Scarf Persian:


Persian @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Shadow Ball
- Fake Out

Most back Persian are CB because of the immediate power on STAB DEdge and its coverage, but I think Silk Scarf + Fake Out can be useful too, I don't trust CB Fake Out because you spend the next turn on the back foot, but with Silk Scarf you can reach certain KO ranges with Fake Out + DEdge, and still have all the coverage you want afterward.

Thief Raichu:


Raichu @ No Item
Ability: Static
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thief

Raichu's switchins tend to be bulky glue such as Glalie, Roselia, SpDef Metang, and Quagsire. Stealing their lefties with Thief can go a long way in wallbreaking for Raichu's offensive teammates like Chimecho or Huntail.

Mixed Sharpedo:


Sharpedo @ Salac Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Crunch
- Double-Edge
- Endure

You dont really lose much by going a -def nature, and DEdge pressures switchins like Politoed Roselia and Mantine pretty well. Ice Beam was the standard out of courtesy and is more useful into niche mons like Meganium and Golbat, but DEdge accentuates Shark being hard to switch into by dealing good damage mainly to the one thing that troubles its sweep, bulky waters.

Thank you for making it this far! Again like LpZ said join our discord server linked above and you'll see me theorycraft some of this cracked tech in real time. I hope that more people get into ADV RU and I'm excited for this tier's future!

 

[LpZ]

Hello everyone, I hope you all are having an excellent day! We wanted to let you know that we are holding our first community survey for ADV RU as we would love to know what are your thoughts on the tier so we can seek for improvement and create our next steps.

Feel free to fill it out until Saturday 11:59 +0.

CLICK HERE​

 

[LpZ]

Hello everyone, thanks for taking your time to answer the survey! Let's go to the results:

It has been shown that the playerbase enjoys the current state of ADV RU, reaching an average score of 8.12/10.

It has been shown that the playerbase finds the current ADV RU metagame competitive, reaching an average score of 7.88/10.

It has been shown that the playerbase thinks the current ADV RU metagame is a builder-friendly tier but it has room for improvement as expressed by its average score of 6.87/10.

Now for the written responses:

Do you currently deem any pokemon to be problematic for the tier?

For the most part it has been agreed that the tier is completely fine right now with no overbearing pokemon available, however there was a Poliwrath mention and a mention of a possibility to look into Damp which creates many checkmates situations. Damp is an ability much appreciated by Politoed and Quagsire, but since Poliwrath has gotten a mention in addition of Damp, which it has access, we will be taking a closer look into Poliwrath but of course not ignoring Damp's omnipresence.

What do you expect from ADV RU for 2024? Suggestions are welcome here!

There have been multiple suggestions on how to take the next steps. A repeated theme was about teambuilding-related projects, such as teambuilding guide and teambuilding competitions, we will definitively work to make those happen, I think that the guide is possible to work with as of now but the competition is gonna be considered in the future, we want to increase the actiivty of our ADV RU projects and gathering more playerbase to take part into those so we can have the best time possible doing that. A person suggested a team tour, development regarding Jumpluff, an article about ADV RU development and potential analysis, all of these are on the table and would be of immense help to further develop the tier, let's talk about each one. About the team tour: it is the most uncertain part on how to proceed with this, it would be a major help for the tier but we still have to look into our options and opportunities since we are still an up-and-coming metagame so we gotta make our search to see what we can do about that. About development regarding Jumpluff: this is happening very soon, in fact this is our next defined step, at first we did not drop Jumpluff to RU because it did not have too many opportunities to prove its worth (or the lack of it) in tourplay even though it got ranked within the ADV RU threshold of drops, ending the ongoing UUSD we are gonna test it in the tier and be very vocal about it and we would need for others to help with that too to have reliable data to keep it, but yes it is a very near reality. About the article: it is actually possible to make it real right now, we just gotta have to gather the right people to start the works, not much to say but personally speaking and not in behalf of the council, I don't know if its best to do it now or after the Jumpluff initial tests so we can make it as up-to-date possible with the newcomer around. About the potential analysis: again speaking by myself and not in behalf of the council, this one I'm more sure about waiting a bit until we can get the steam going again with numerous projects and continuous development, I don't think it is a good idea to start that after a single tournament, people may or may not agree but I, LpZ, would rather wait on those. Oh and s/o to the person that suggested a party.




That will do it for this survey, again we have many projects coming as we finally got more transparent about those in the survey results and everything indicates we are in the right path and we are in for a bright and positive 2024. Thanks everyone for reading and I`ll see you soon for our next project, the Jumpluff test!

 

[EllingtonReborn]

Personal Impressions on ADV RU: ​

Ever since our tour and crew battle ended I feel that our metagame knowledge has been set much more concretely, not only do we firmly know what is good and bad, we also know how each 'mon impacts lines and teambuilding. We are still open to innovation and there could be change as we drop mons like Jumpluff or the UU VR gets updated, etc. However, my main impression that I got is:

The meta feels a lil solved and has got more top-heavy.​

I feel like its been much harder to justify teams that arent lead Persian/Hitmonchan, Glalie, bulky water, ghost, Metang/Chimecho, filler. Those teams exist, however there's reasons alternatives rarely see use to me, eg. the spikers are noticably worse than Glalie, and the bulky waters are noticably worse than Politoed. What's consistent tends to stay consistent imo.

Maybe I don't want this to be a call for collective stagnation, rather maybe we can still find micro-optimizations in the meta that we have. I found little things such as Sub/Rest Politoed and Counter Magmar, but nothing rly shaping the meta as we used to find back in August through October.

I still think Damp is coming out on top always, our meta rn has been this upsurge of Toxic Glalie and Toxic Metang, and Sub Toed made me realize Damp mons are very capable of winning interactions by virtue of blocking status, the very thing that allows Glalie and Metang fighting chances against these mons. I know I am a loon for thinking Damp is over-the-top but I don't think these are signs of an exactly healthy meta. Politoed Poliwrath and Quagsire will still be great mons without Damp because they all have WAbsorb as another ability but I think Damp has been pushing its limits with the advent of Poliwrath and Sub Toed.

Anyways, I think there will be things to revitalize the meta going into 2024, hopefully we will get team tour play and possible drops. I still like the meta no doubt, but I think it's very safe to say we've exited the development era of ADV RU.

 

[EllingtonReborn]

Wanted to abuse my privilege of this thread existing to talk a lil more about the metagame and current findings, I still think the meta largely revolves around the good mons Glalie Toed Haunter Metang Sab and they still do centralize the metagame, but I have been looking into how to adapt the mons that dont see much play as well as how can we optimize the already good mons here, I made this entire spiel in the ADV RU Discord (pls join btw :D) and I played a couple games with ADV RU up-and-comer plznostep as well as a couple other people to practice the tier and just have fun! I'll go over the niche mons first and the good mons last.

Niche mons:


Pidgeot might still have a semblance of viability, its still C+/C tier at best but theres some good assets to consider, notably countering the significant uptick in ground/ghost coverage from Quagsire and Meganium, and being able to pivot into many other moves from Stantler Persian CB Fighters (even regular Hitmonchan tbh) and Banette. Its also important to mention that unlike Persian, Pidge has a better click with its secondary stab into ghosts that doesnt leave it suspectible to giving other normals free turns. It also has a spikes immunity which is great as a CB'er demonstrated by Golbat, and finallly, its just as hard to switch into as Persian. Obv the speed sucks, Primeape runs Rock Slide more often, Tales has a field day on it, but I think it works on certain structures and it isnt really too bottom-of-the-barrel as we thought it'd be.


Pelipper is a great fighter/bulky fire/metang answer, helping many pokemon like Chlorophyll Grasses and Rapidash. However, its RestTalk set ends up being very exploitable and bad stalk rolls in ADV is terrible. Maybe we can use surf ice beam toxtect instead?


CB Kabutops is quite the good lead, as long as you dont run into Primeape or non-Magmar counter leads youre essentially favored into almost everyone, importantly CB Persian with Brick Break, Hitmonchan with HP Flying, and Glalie Banette Torkoal naturally. You can also come in and out as needed to threaten basically everything, the threat in RU matches is proving to be worthwhile.


Shiftry might not be fully outclassed by Vic as it has slightly better special bulk for Toed and Raichu (with the right ev spread) and can set up freely on Haunter, but its lack of sleep/encore and brutal bulky fire/Hitmonchan weakness are things to consider.


Speaking of above, same applies to Cacturne as a spiker, spikes giga drain hp dark encore is surprisingly effective at spiking on things like Haunter Chimecho and Quagsire. It's still harder to justify than the holy Glalie but might work on structures that need an extra Haunter check, ground resist, and Encore disruptor.


Rapidash only has one good set and its the SubPetaya Sunny Day set, it weirdly works w Peli and other Toxic users to tear down Bulky Fires/Waters, and Its a lategame mon that beats other lategame threats like Liechi Persian and Petaya Raichu. Once the cards are in Dash's favor it can definitely start to cause havoc, I wouldn't entirely dismiss its presence in the tier even though its a one-trick ponyta.


Exploud has been working very well into Sab structures but its speed sucks and is just harder to justify over Stantler generally. Would love to see someone other than me use it though, just in case theres any breakthrough its Mixed SubTox set has to offer in any game.

Good mons:


Glalies most effective set in my experience is probably Toxic Sball but it could probably be Toxic Ice Beam too, hits Stantler meaningfully while maintaining a 2hko on Haunter and it can just boom on Chime/Mime. I think there might also be potential for boomless Glalie tbh. maybe spikes eq sball toxic? spikes sball toxic rest? who knows.

shhhh

spikeless glalie is usable too but thats a secret sauce for another time

Not a lot to talk about with Toed's set variation besides Hydro v Surf and HP Elec v HP Grass, Sub and Tect are Toed's best last moves but I think with Toed typically dueling other Toed and Stantler being a pain, Counter is also effective. Thief steals glalie/toed/spdef metang lefties but is probably the worst option besides Focus Punch. I rank them Sub, Tect, Counter, Hypnosis, Focus Punch, Thief.


Stantler is incredibly good. Not in a good like "oh yeah I respect it" kind of way. No, its insane. its seriously insane. Whyever people dont use Hypnosis and EndSalac Stantler is beyond me, there's a potential broken factor to it (not that its actually broken or banworthy but its really good), Stantler usually demands a single kill w regular Toxic/Twave sets, now it can demand more. Ik i'll just get "oh but Persian can do the same thing" but Persian is much more exploitable either in its power or its CB lock factor, Stanter is just.................... Stantler. Dont sleep. Put it at #6 over Persian.


SubLiechi Persian is good, please use it if your team doesn't like switching around too much.

That's all, have a good day play ADV RU :3

 

[LpZ]

Happy new year everyone! We want to wish everyone a great new year with lots of new accomplishments for you all, we hope to make 2024 a great one!

As for the first post of the year in here we are proud to announce our 2024 Tournament Schedule and consequentially our brand new Circuit for the tier (keep in mind this is unnofficial though).

RoA ADV RU Spotlight Tour (and ladder) - Signups are open now! - Hosted by Javi (TYPE C)
ADV RU Jumpluff Tour (Double Elimination) - February 19th - Hosted by EllingtonReborn (TYPE A)
ADV RU Single Elim Tour (Name TBD) - April 22nd - Hosted by TBD (TYPE B)
RUFPL - Around june/july
ADV RU Swiss Tour OR ADV RU Open (ADV Slam) - October 7th - Hosted by TBD (TYPE A)
ADV RU Circuit Finals - December 9th - Hosted by me

Type A - winner gets 500 points
Type B - winner gets 350 points
Type C - winner gets 200 points

The 16 people with the most amount of points qualify for the circuit finals, keep in mind this is what is planned but stuff on this post are still subject to change and we will keep you informed about those.

Let's make this a memorable year for ADV RU!

 

[EllingtonReborn]

CB Kabutops is quite the good lead, as long as you dont run into Primeape or non-Magmar counter leads youre essentially favored into almost everyone, importantly CB Persian with Brick Break, Hitmonchan with HP Flying, and Glalie Banette Torkoal naturally. You can also come in and out as needed to threaten basically everything, the threat in RU matches is proving to be worthwhile.

Everything I said about this, erase it from your memory. Prepare to see the optimized lead Kabutops.

Kabutops @ Choice Band
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Brick Break
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Aerial Ace

It would seem I just haven't looked enough at its movepool to realize it doesn't have 4MSS between HP Ground for Metang and HP Flying for Hitmonchan, no its movepool allows it to run Aerial Ace, which still OHKOs Lead Hitmonchan. I think the problem with lead Kabutops then was Rock stab is good and all but it couldn't hit all rock resists with one moveset. I solved that issue.

If I had to make a lead matchup list for CB Kabutops, it would probably be something like this:

Favored: Persian, Adamant Hitmonchan, Banette (62.5% chance to OHKO), Glalie, Torkoal, HP Ghost Kingler, Magmar, Camerupt, Pidgeot*
Neutral: Ninetales, Octillery
Unfavored: Primeape, Poliwrath, Stantler, HP Ground Kingler (bad), Hypno (without flinch), Azumarill*

*These are relatively experimental leads that havent seen much play but have sets that in theory make them viable.

Expect a personal ADV RU Lead Viability Ranking in the future, I think the lead metagame is very immersive in this tier and Kabutops is quite solid (not the best but solid).

 

[Oglemi]

Laddered a bit today and am having fun with the tier! Initial impressions are that the tier is very physically frail and fast, physical attackers are very dangerous and probably the best wincons and wallbreakers that you can go for. Primeape has been a standout to me as a CB breaker/sweeper. Meganium, Politoed, and Sableye seem to make a pretty good defensive core but I'm always looking to optimize.

Initial impressions lead me to believe that Metang is probably not an S rank mon, it's nice as a usable Steel and has Explosion which is dangerous, but it has not impressed me when facing it at all. I think it's just too easy to take advantage of, and getting hit for neutral or worse against the top special attackers in the tier mean its typing is actually not all that valuable outside of resisting both Normal and Rock. idk, still waiting to see it in an optimized way.

 

[EllingtonReborn]

Laddered a bit today and am having fun with the tier! Initial impressions are that the tier is very physically frail and fast, physical attackers are very dangerous and probably the best wincons and wallbreakers that you can go for. Primeape has been a standout to me as a CB breaker/sweeper. Meganium, Politoed, and Sableye seem to make a pretty good defensive core but I'm always looking to optimize.

Initial impressions lead me to believe that Metang is probably not an S rank mon, it's nice as a usable Steel and has Explosion which is dangerous, but it has not impressed me when facing it at all. I think it's just too easy to take advantage of, and getting hit for neutral or worse against the top special attackers in the tier mean its typing is actually not all that valuable outside of resisting both Normal and Rock. idk, still waiting to see it in an optimized way.

Very excited to see you loving the tier! I know you birthed ADV NU and im glad that you're having fun with a beefed up version of it! Just wanna touch up on some things...

Youre absolutely right that some of the best breakers happen to be physical, Normals and Fighters alike are good at breaking common cores (I am very high on Stantler rn which can just bypass either its defensive checks or its offensive ones). Lately I feel you're right about Metang, I think we did initially overrate it's ability to make progress, with things like Sub Toed, BU Rest Poliwrath, and Curse Quagsire taking complete advantage of its ability to only Toxic them it can definitely have its shortcomings and relies a lot on prediction and heavy support against Damp mons. It might not be top 5 anymore and I think I'm still optimistic enough to put it in top 10 but definitely not S anymore, I feel that tier is just taken by Toed and Glalie.

 

[EllingtonReborn]

Got knocked out of ROA Spotlight tour which was very fun, gz's to all of my opponents (that i played lol)! I figured I would take another opportunity to post more recent thoughts on the metagame, do note this is gonna be long and i mainly make this post because of a certain mon i will talk about later and as history preservation before we start the Jumpluff suspect tour. I think as more people have played the meta with the introduction of a temporary ladder we developed more feelings in terms of mons viability, and I want to compare it with the community VR we have rn. I'll go over general metagame thoughts at large, individual mon viability rank discussion, and individual mon set/meta development discussion. I won't post a new VR as I think it would be arbitrary to at this stage, and also I dont wanna go over every mon again lol.

Overall thoughts:
​

I think the metagame is in a good stage right now, big momentum swings are going to be a thing always and the lack of team preview is a benefit to every last in the tier, but with careful play there's still opportunity to make comebacks even on dangerous things like Petaya Raichu, Liechi Persian, Belly Drum Poliwrath, Salac Stantler, etc. Though what this tends to mean is that offense just dominates the tier right now, once you gain momentum its easy to keep it going, and this makes mons that rely on accuracy feel terrible (Metang, Magmar, sometimes Ninetales, especially Primeape, even Toed struggles if its running Hydro, but the main thing is Toxic). I've been very vocal about my opinion on this and this will get me haha reacts but i genuinely believe that Damp is a bad point for the tier rn, this is one thing leading to huge momentum shifts and why endure salac Haunter is as forced as it is. Every team has to bend over backwards to beat Sub Toed, once it started speed creeping everything is when it became a problem and it consistently takes 3 kills every game. You'd think to just say "just build better" but the amount of strain that Damp mons put on the teambuilder is next to none, everything that threatens Toed doesn't switch in. I can make a whole post about it but I choose not to bc discussion is kept to minimum about it for whatever reason. I just think that it harms the tier more than helps and that in comparison to NU, these are not healthy dynamics to have in a tier that can be as swingy as ADV RU.

Individual Viability:
​

Finally we get to the good stuff. I wanna just say what I feel should rise and drop and my explanations as to each.

S/A+ --> S-

I believe glalie and haunter form their own tier under Toed who is obviously the best mon in the tier atm, they make up 90% of all fundamental glue and are hard to drop because of their offensive/defensive utility alike. Sableye and Metang haven't been coming close.

S --> A

Every damp mon forces Metang into prediction reliance, it being forced into passive sets means its easy to take advantage of, it loses to plenty of lasts in the tier that aren't CB Persian, and it's just... not the splashable beast we thought it was? This sentiment has been shared across multiple people in ADV RU and although it has its good traits sometimes, Metang is 100% due for a drop.

A+ --> A

Great special breaker in its own right? Yeah! The most sound offensive mon? Nah probably not, Raichu has a good share of common walls and people have been more keen on offensively checking it. It just doesn't sweep quite as hard as Stantler or Persian for me to rank it with them.

A --> A+

You know how I feel about Stantler. It is god. Not the easiest mon to fit but one of the most if not the best effective physical breaker in the tier rn. Rise.

A --> B+

Surprisingly, no, this isn't the mon i wanted to talk about in my intro text, but believe me when I say Rose is both not a good mon to use in play and to have on a team over Glalie, it faces incredibly stiff competition and Sub Toed forcing it to interact instead of spike worsens that. It lacks the amount of good matchups Glalie has and for that reason it is far and away not on the level of any A tier rn.

A --> A+

Unlike Metang, Chimecho is actually great glue and can force its way into progress on a more consistent basis, just having tools for any part of the metagame is great, and i find it easy to throw on and be effective with. There are some people that just dont use this (which they should) but at the very least it is quite respected and could see a bump to A+.

A- --> B

There is a mon called Toed in the tier. Need further explanation?

A- --> C

THIS. THIS is the reason i made the intro text and the entire reason I am making this post. Let me give you a little bit of a rant about Mantine. A Rantine if you will.

I definitely thought this mon lacked promise when Magmar was thought to rule the tier like Toed is doing right now, but now with the metagame-warping Sub Toed joining the fray and Pelipper making its mark as a solid bulky fire/fighter check, there is no single reason to use this thing anymore. If you build your teams accounting for Sub Toed, you dont even have to think about SubTox Mantine, the counterplay comes naturally if not more, and Sub Toed getting on the field against Mantine essentially means gg. You should never be using Mantine like you would be using Toed, as it loses to the threats that a bulky water should be able to check such as other bulky waters, magmar, flareon, etc, and not having damp can harm its Metang matchup, so it really becomes..... why??? Are you using it as a rain sweeper? Huntail is right there being more powerful and lacking a 4x elec weakness. Defensive Mantine? Absolutely not, just use Pelipper. The only things that I will give Mantine over Pelipper is the slightly better Ninetales and Sharpedo matchup. Other than that? This mon sucks and I am not afraid to say that it should FALL hard in the viability rankings.

A- --> B

Please tell me the appeal to this thing. It is a solid CM sweeper but it has its faults and I think a lot of people overlook that. It does not deserve to be in the same tier as Quagsire. I have a much better time justifying Chimecho over Mime on much more teams and Mime has some places but its not that hard at all to check unless you're facing some turbo fat team.

B+ --> A-

Flareon's success has only increased since the last VR, it is very versatile in its offensive potential and hard af to switch into. I feel like Flareon and Magmar are around equal viability rn, which is crazy to think about when comparing it to August meta. Flareon is due to break out of B+ territory and more onto being a legit threat.

B+ --> B-/C+

Tbh I'm unsure if I want to go B- or C+ but Octillery has definitely fell off. It relies a lot on fishing for good lead matchups to get anything going,
offense has been dropping more metang and going a lead glalie/midgame flareon route. It's definitely not the lead it once was.

Big disclaimer I will be talking about how the entirety of B rank is an anomaly​

B --> B+

QoB has really made this thing pop off, I feel like when she started making more structures around it, there became more ideas on the types of builds you can fit it on, and its absolutely 100% something teams should account for, its definitely not on the lower level as some other B ranks besides Sharpedo which could also rise but i dont feel like talking about.

B --> C+

I was the first person to innovate this so I want to make it clear. Kingler is fishy. It's inconsistency leaves it to be with the C ranks.

B --> C+

This too. People have been spamming the Aggron paraspam on ladder so there has been talk of "Aggron is great actually" but I dont see it, you're checked by every part of the metagame besides winning with parahax against bad players. Giving Quagsire and Poliwrath completely free turns is terrible so this thing can actually sink your momentum in those matchups. For that I can't in good conscience rank it alongside more consistent picks.

B --> C

How was this thing B rank lol?? Theres no reason to use Sneasel over Liechi Persian. Its typing is terrible, not having STAB is terrible. Look at this calc and tell me this isnt pitiful: +1 252+ Atk Sneasel Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ninetales: 147-173 (51 - 60%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

if this is this mons offensive ceiling, I dont want it.

B --> C+

QoB shuns me for this take but I'm sry I dont get why use Golbat anymore. Haunter and Chimecho fulfill your same defensive roles while also finding opportunities to make progress. Golbat has the niche that its a CBer over them but I feel like you can also use a CBer like Persian or Primeape and be fine. Primeape is also running more Rock Slide so you can't say the defensive utility is entirely there either. Idk I dont feel like fitting it on most teams but I can kinda respect that it has tourney success.

B- --> B+

I can understand why this was initially ranked low as I didn't think Vic was that good either, but when I found out the 36 SpD EV tech I started to acknowledge Vic as a more legit threat because consistently setting up on Politoed makes a huge difference. Vic has two sets to account for in Sunny Day and SD. I am partial to Sunny Day because I see Vic as a lategame cleaner more than a midgame wallbreaker and your moveslot choices are more versatile. This thing poses a similar threat to Meganium, not with the bulk but with the offensive breaking power and unpredictability that make it quite good imo.

B- --> C

You don't see Sableye as much anymore and this things winrate since the start of the tournament has been consistently negative. I dont think there's a place for Pupitar in the meta atp.

B- --> C

It sucks because I don't want this mon to be as hyperspecific and with the meta as against it as it is, but Camerupt isn't good and doesn't have even the situational success of other B- pokemon like Exploud and Rapidash.

B- --> UR

There is no place for Raticate over Persian in modern ADV RU and it should not be ranked.

C+ --> B

I mentioned Pelipper in the Mantine segment and I have been having success with the kind of structures you would find Pelipper on. I think as people become more keen to it you'll have more people aggressively doubling into it or luring it with HP Elec Flareon/BU Rock Slide Primeape, but we haven't quite had that yet and I believe Pelipper not to be the most solid bulky water, but as a decent Toed alternative for Flareon, Fighters, and soft checking Normals.

C+ --> B-

I know that not everyone believes in the minor niche that Pidgeot holds as a CBer like I do, but what I'm saying is if we're keeping Exploud and Rapidash in B-, already two mons with shaky viability but a tinge of effectiveness that makes them see use, Pidgeot deserves to be there too.

C+/C --> UR

I dont think these mons are worth being ranked in the VR, Vigoroth has 0 usage for crying out loud and as far as i've seen 0 success. If Absol had any unexplored potential I think we would have found it by now, but there's no place for it in the meta. I have consistently beat it without any trouble when ppl decide "I will use this over Stantler, Persian, or Hitmonchan".

UR --> C+

Seadra is actually a solid lead with the current metagame, and I know I will get a lot of flack for saying that but it does many things Octillery wants to do both with immediate power and speed to attain revenge kills. Obviously it's not anyone's first lead choice but I think it should be given a shot and at the very least put on the VR. Definitely deserves it more than Wartortle.

UR --> C

plznostep has revolutionized stall and stall is shuckle. Pretty decent mixed wall and this is actually one of the best Stantler checks in the tier. Stall still sucks right now, but I would say that certain meta development makes me see it fit to be ranked in the official VR.

Individual Set Discussion:
​

I'll format this like I did my last set discussion post, this time though I wont say HP Flying Kabutops lol, very glad to see people running lead CB Kabutops though.


At first I dismissed HP Grass Glalie as a UU relic as its there just to hit Omastar, but recently I have started to see its benefits in full glory, as the 3HKO on Quagsire as well as breaking Poliwrath's Substitute might be what saves Glalie rn because it techs against Damp mons.


I hear people saying that Wisp is actually droppable on Tales, and while I don't personally agree on every level as it makes it threaten Stantler and Primeape as hard as it does, I see why that sentiment would come to be with people running Toxic Imprison, SubToxic, potentially ToxTect??? It's not a farfetch'd thing to do but Wisp is still good in its own right. One reason (the main) that people prefer Toxic it hurts Toed more with Spikes down, but also that it allows Tales to run HP Grass to not be quite as passive into waters, which I think it needs rn as I said in my VR post Tales doesn't have much meaningful ways to hit them. It loses out on HP Water for Fires but who cares when you can Toxic them right?


CB has become the standard lead set because it beats anything that's slower than it and forces switches to gain information about the opposing team quite well. However, it's because of this that Primeape has advantageous early-game lines. When I found out that Haunter Psychic has unfavored odds to OHKO Primeape, that turned a lightbulb on in my head that CB Primeape is bluffable. This meta development makes Lum Primeape a genuine lead consideration to add to its offensive unpredictability. When the item is revealed or damage rolls are revealed its more easy to play around but this thing is an early-game monster when it doesn't run into lead Persian.


Sub Imprison Banette is the new sauce. Sableye hoping to retaliate with Shadow Ball? Nope! Poliwrath looking to set up Sub + Belly Drum and hit with HP Ghost? Nope! Persian hitting you with either Shadow Ball or HP Ground? Nope, not if you set it up behind Sub! And when you do set up imprison, you get to make more subs! It's not a "new best set" but I think it could be a little bit hilarious if used over Endure Destiny Bond which inherently has more success.


It's a very minor development but even though I love HP Fire to hit Metang and other Grasses, there is potential worth exploring with HP Rock Shiftry to hit Fires, Golbat, and Pidgeot. Generally use Shiftry at your own discretion though, I won with it but its hard to make work.

Closing Thoughts (Re: ADVPL):
​

The final thing I want to say about ADV RU is that I want what is best for this tier's future, I am unsure as to whether this tier will make it into ADVPL or if our next big move has to be the Jumpluff suspect tour. The more the merrier, but I get if other tiers need the slot, as I would love to see an OU bo3 slot in ADVPL personally. My thoughts on Jumpluff is that its almost a surefire addition to the meta for me, its passivity makes it exploitable by some of the best mons in the tier but I don't think it'd be terrible like in UU, as Spikes are more permanent and there's minimal recovery/cleric options which makes Pluff's damage stick more. I have played a few games with it but I don't think it drastically impacts the meta. I also want one of our tours to suspect test Damp, if we dont move forward with banning it I will be surprised but I want to be vocal and say we should give it another honest look. I believe it contributes to the swingy-ness that the tier has and if we can mitigate that, it would be a good for the tier's quality of life. Thats all, thank you so much for reading one of my long and deranged ramblings again and if you want to build up hype for the Jumpluff suspect test go join our Discord! Amity out~