Lower Tiers ADV UU Metagame Discussion


Hello all, as the title states here this is just a thread to discuss ADV UU, something I've wanted to make for quite a long time now. This is inspired heavily (or more bluntly, the format will probably be similar to) Pak's ORAS UU thread, which you can find here. There were some requests for a thread like this to be made, given that while the resources have been updates recently after a few years, it is a bit hard to get into the tier as a newer player with an interest in it. There's an older thread somewhere in the forums back when this was a featured meta in the end of 2016, but that was a very very long time ago obviously and the thread is dead as you can imagine. This is my favorite tier so I wanted to share some stuff to hopefully entice people to give it a try, because it's a very intricate tier and in a way it's very rewarding to put very specific details into it, moreso than other tiers anyway. For people who have already had runs in the tier in any regard, this'll also serve as a place just to dump thoughts.

Resources:

UU Old Gens Hub - This includes both viability rankings (which ftr I hope to update to some extent with a few other people), as well as some sample teams to get started.

This section will be updated more later on, perhaps with some more references for introspection for the meta.
 
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I guess to start this off I'll talk about what are probably the most important aspects of the tier - this won't be new information if you've played even just a few games of the tier, because these things become very apparent very fast, but that also makes it worth going over. This post will be slightly more concise than ones that'll follow from me, and in the future I'm gonna go more in depth about the interactions that follow some of these. For now, this could probably be considered the "Essentials" in a short form, just to go over the basics.




Kangaskhan is the best mon in the tier by a significantly large margin, and it is pretty much necessary on every team. Again, this isn't anything ground breaking, but it can't be understated. It's necessary because Kangaskhan can fulfill a multitude of different roles, and does so consistently in every game it's in. Despite its Normal typing offering not much in the way of actual resists, its neutrality to almost everything in conjunction with its natural bulk makes it so that it can tank most hits with ease. In fact, aside from booms, the only non super effective attacks that can OHKOs a "standard" Kanga (this means having a significant amount of HP at the very least, after that the spread becomes much more customizable, which I'll get into in a later post about the Kanga trends) that are from noteworthy mons are CB Granbull's Double-Edge and Hydro Pump from a Mystic Water Omastar or Gorebyss in Rain. If it's a SpDef Wish Kanga, then the latter two don't cut it either. On the flip side, the movepool and offensive stats it has make it so that more often than not when it's in it's making progress. There are a multitude of ways to check any given set, but there's not really a flat out hard counter to it. An interesting thing to note is that while 90 Speed is very good in the tier, allowing it to outrun a lot of common offensive things like Gligar and the Nidos, in most cases you're generally forgoing a lot of that for the sake of HP investment. This is because even Adamant variants don't need much to outrun the common offensive threats. The most notable example for this is hitting enough to outrun Modest Walrein, which is important because Kanga is usually one of the more practical switchins to it. In essence, Kangaskhan is what makes the tier. It separates itself from everything else in the tier because of how splashable it is, and how much value you can get out of it.




Spikes are next here. The application of it in itself is obviously very straightforward, cause it's hazards and hazards are amazing, but the momentum aspects of it that comes long term is an interesting dynamic in itself. Omastar is pretty much the premier Spike setter. The bulk it has coupled with its ability to check a large portion of physical threats is enough to let itself set up hazards without too much cost, though this is pretty dependent on how defensive Oma actually is. You can usually opt for physically defensive sets with Protect and Toxic (somtimes Ice Beam somewhere), or more offensively oriented ones with any combination of Ice Beam / Toxic / Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric / Rain Dance - you can still run some of the offensive moves on physically defensive though and vice versa, these are just the "usual" move combinations. ProTox is so common for bulkier variants because the combination of those two moves make it relatively easy for Oma to take hits later on and punishes most typical switchins to it. Protect also helps to scout the occasional Choice Band user, which is nice because in those situations you're going to find yourself trying to dance around a lot. Meanwhile offensive sets are harder to get in but are way better at pressuring some bulky offenses - these sorts of things are dependent on team composition.

Beyond Omastar itself and its ability to set up Spikes, the way they actually play into the game dictates a lot of how momentum shifts. The most common switchin to Oma is Tentacruel, since it sponges most hits and is one of two of the tier's spinners. While it usually spins for free, the cost of that is that enables to get reliable checks in (this usually is Kanga, at least in the early game). They either get the Spike off or they try to punish for a bit of extra damage. At that point, you've gained an advantage in that they've either done no damage and are switching out with a bit less trouble, or they make it slightly harder for you but have to play the game longer with that hazard up, and even a single layer goes a long way in opening up for...just about anything, realistically, but most notably Scyther, Gligar, and the electrics. This makes it so that games are determined by who can make the most use of how they play Spikes and how they make use of them and / or prevent them from going up. That being said, going without Spikes isn't really unviable. On a personal level, for a while I had been playing to punish something coming in to deal with Omastar immediately as opposed to just getting a Spike up and then doing that same thing a bit later, just in a different manner. It makes a lot of difference to play it with a more gradual perspective in mind (though again, this may go differently depending on what type of team you're running). That being said, there are a few team archetypes that go without it and are still able to apply constant pressure. Not having Spikes just makes it so that you have to be a bit more careful in the early game.

You'll also notice that I included Qwilfish alongside Oma for this category. It's the only other Spiker in the tier (no Roselia does not count), but it is fundamentally different from Omastar, and have very little in common with each other aside from what's glaringly obvious. Qwilfish is only seen on very fast paced offensive builds that stack setup sweepers like Linoone and Scyther. It has a few nice attributes, mainly that it has access to boom which is always good as it can punish other leads that way - it also has Destiny Bond which functions similarly. The main issue, in contrast to Oma, is that it never actually stays alive and doesn't really have any defensive utility. It's still decent enough to get a mention here, though, since Qwil offenses have picked up some wins here and there, making it just a bit relevant to be included.



Unfortunately trying to find a graphic for Toxic corresponding to the XD games did not get anywhere so I guess just compiling the most "common" users of the move works instead. This is a pretty small sample though since there are a lot of mons that run Toxic. It's like Spikes in how good it is for pushing progression and momentum in your favor, but aside from the move distribution aspect, it's different in that it'll end up forcing scenarios that push the opponent into very constricting and awkward positions. As you force your opponent to make concessions based off residual damage, the easier it is to a) force them into revealing more of their team, both in what they show as an immediate reaction and what you can infer based off that information, and b) get things into position for whatever your own gameplan would be. I guess this is technically information that isn't really specific to ADV UU but I feel like it's very apparent here. Earlier I had said you can go without Spikes - you can't do the same with Toxic. If you're running Spikes, then you absolutely want Toxic because it's more residual damage, but if you're not running Spikes then you absolutely need Toxic, because if you are solely relying on immediate damage then you are going to fall behind. The impact Toxic has had for current metagame trends cannot be overstated. To put this into perspective, running a team where about 4-5 mons run Toxic is unironically a viable way to go about things because if you come unprepared then it becomes immensely difficult to make any sort of headway. I don't really want to claim it's brainless but in the right matchup it does relieve a lot of stress. In the same token, status absorbers, most notably Rest Kanga, and / or clerics have also become quite beneficial to run over the years due to this.

///


The last bit here I've kinda grouped together because the second part is largely a response to the first, and like Toxic this is a portion of what is actually available for these roles, but are the best at what they do. The first are your typical "sweepers"- I kind of hate that term here because it just sounds kind of dull and doesn't really encompass what it actually means to use them at their best as I'd like, but whatever. In the most straightfoward sense, they can break open in the early/ mid game or clean later on. Tentacruel is the most distinguishable out of all of these in that it can actually switch into things, which gives it far, far more utility and will probably be more of a presence throughout the game's entirety than the others. It's one of the best Omastar switchins, (though special variants do the job fairly better thanks to Giga Drain), is relatively hard to revenge kill thanks to its Speed, has access to Spin, and is still obnoxious to deal with thanks to how spammable Sludge Bomb is. Scyther is a bit easier to handle in some aspects in that its weaknesses are easier to exploit, but it's much stronger naturally, so you can still manage to find set up opportunities. Beyond this, the amount of tools that it can throw you are numerous, and dealing with it in a position where it's just come out in the game's later stages is usually risky. In that sense, Scyther is the most threatening "last" in the tier. The most notable of these sets are Reversal variants; these can range from Endure Salac or Sub Liechi, but both are incredibly potent. Putting it simply, if you are not prepared for it, Reversal Scyther has the potential to clean sweep regardless of how sizable of a lead you have. More traditional sets with both STABs and Quick Attack are fine too, and they don't hinge as much on the end game as Reversal sets do. Manectric is an interesting case in that it has all the On Paper tm tools to be truly dominating thanks to its Speed tier and solid coverage, but it can fall short without proper support since things like specially defensive Kanga, Hypno, and Cradily are all alright answers to it. However, Sub Petaya sets give a much needed boost to it, and with some chip on these mons it has the potential to plow through teams, Linoone is something that I haven't really considered that often, and to me isn't really amazing, but given its recent usage I do have to mention it, though there isn't really a whole lot to say...if you manage to get a Belly Drum up on a free turn, then it's very obnoxious to stop since it doesn't need much prior chip to OHKO everything, if at all I think. I don't rate it super highly because realistically, it's not something that should be boosting very often - against most bulky offense frameworks it's awkward to find opportunities to set up with, so most of its stock comes in punishing more slower, passive builds. Even then, stall teams will usually have tools to either put it on a timer and limit it or just phaze it entirely. Regardless, it has won a few games so it wouldn't be fair to not mention it. The common theme here with all of these mons is that while setting up with them might be risky in itself due to their frailty, they have the ability to shift the game's tide entirely.

Preventing these sweeps from occuring isn't impossible, or even that difficult by any means, but should it happen it's important to have an emergency button to press so that you don't just flat out lose. The most consistent way of doing so is priority, which isn't abundant in distribution, but is commonly found on some of the best Pokemon, and so carrying at least something that has it is a criteria I consider a must-have on bulky offenses these days. Scyther and Gligar both carry Quick Attack often, and Bulk Up (and the rare Choice Band) Hitmontop also can carry Mach Punch. It's important to note that with regards to Linoone, Extreme Speed doesn't have +2 priority in ADV, so faster Pokemon can still outrun it with priority, though you need to have a substantial amount, almost to the point where it's probably not worth it, to rk with Hitmontop.

Hopefully this post didn't drag on for too long and isn't riddled with grammatical errors or something, it took me longer than it should have to write this considering that it doesn't really make a super deep dive D:
 
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Alright, finally gonna make another post here. was planning to do one last week but then health related stuff came up D: Still not feeling best so ill make this one a bit short - I just wanted to talk about some recent meta trends within the past two team tours (UUPL and UUWC) that I think are worth articulating.


Vileplume @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Atk / 148 Def / 80 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed / Aromatherapy
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Moonlight / Leech Seed

I suppose the slashes are a bit awkward here, but this is a set that has cropped up a fair bit, and despite not being particularly stellar offensively, it's incredibly hard to handle for most teams. Been using it as a lead mostly but it can function in the backline too. It has just the right amount of tools to disrupt...more or less every team in some fashion lmao. It provides a lot of utility in that its defensive stats and typing (toxic immunity!!) allow it to comfortably switchin on a lot of the tier, barring obvious stuff like Scyther and Gligar. Beyond this, it has access to Leech Seed, which, while not always necessary, contributes heavily into the offensive pressure it provides. There are very little leech immunities in the tier, mainly itself and Cradily, and it in conjunction with Sludge Bomb makes it so that nothing is really safe against it. Of course, it does require some manuevering, and it is vulnerable to a sizable portion of offensive threats like Walrein and the Psychics, but even they aren't safe because the combination of Leech Seed and fishing for poisons, which it does so pretty well lol, makes it so that it can wear teams down early / mid game reliably while also enabling a lot of other Pokemon. Pairing this with Omastar is really nice (but then again, what isn't nice with Oma), because Spikes make this set even more annoying to play. I've slashed Aromatherapy here because having a cleric is obviously important for some teams and allows you to trade Toxics early on, and also covers you vs those weird Twave offenses. Moonlight gives reliable recovery since Leech can miss obviously, but if you are feeling a little more confident you can forgo it, and on the other hand this set doesn't always need Leech Seed so you can opt out of it if you just want to be more safe. It's a very comfortable fit for like any team.


Linoone @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pickup
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Def
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Ball
- Belly Drum
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Linoone hasn't really been a thing that's actively been considered over the past few years, but the uprising of it in UUWC has gained it some newfound relevance. There's not really a lot to say about it because the set itself is very straightforward, it functions the same way it has in modern tiers. This is mainly due to how the metagame has gravitated in a much more passive fashion, which allows it more free turns to set up. That being said, it still requires a lot of support - usually it's paired with Reflect users like Solrock or Hypno, or sometimes even both, thanks to its paper thin defenses. To a lesser extent, if you manage to get it low enough post Belly Drum you can revenge kill it with things like Scyther or Gligar thanks to Quick Attack (or to a much lesser extent, weird stuff like Mach Punch from offensive Hitmontop, which requires a pretty sizable amount of speed investment even just for sets like this one that don't run any Speed EVs). It kind of requires you to build the whole team around it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself thanks to its ability to just flip games around entirely, but sometimes the risks that come with it are too much to bear. Not gonna diss it too much though for sure, because as seen in some recent games if you aren't prepared for it in some way you are in deep trouble.
 
:rs/muk:
Muk is generally a mon that has been seen as somewhat of a fringe pick, but over the past few months it's had some great usage in a number of roles. Primarily, it serves as a special tank of sorts, since it's a great check to a majority of the special attackers of the tier - think electrics and Tentacruel. Alongside that, it has a pretty solid niche of being one of the few boomers of the tier. Explosion isn't really common these days, but well it's still pretty damn good for obvious reasons lol. There are only a few other things that run that in the tier, mainly Solrock, Electrode, and Golem, but those fulfill very different roles, so they're not very comparable to Muk. Also the rare Camerupt. Couple that with good coverage and broken ass STAB Sludge Bomb and you have something that, while not the easiest thing to fit on a team, enforces its unique role in a strong fashion. Gonna be talking about the two main sets it runs and how you'd fit it on teams (and thus it flaws, kinda).

It's very distinct in fitting it on teams in that, while not the hardest to break down gradually, it is a more solid cushion towards Petaya Manectric (other Petaya Electrics like Electrode and Electabuzz are not as common these days, but that's for another time), and unlike Vileplume, it doesn't really give a shit about any Tentacruel variants, barring the rare HP Ground on Druidcruel that has seen some usage in UUWC i believe? Nidoqueen has the potential to beat Tentacruel 1v1 as well, but the difference here is that you're not going to lose all your health and thus probably die to a layer or two of Spikes in the process once you're forced out by virtually anything faster. It also has the potential to 1v1 any non EQ variants of Walrein. This is really, really important in that, being able to fulfill the same role of other Poisons in just consistently fishing with Sludge Bomb, punishing most defensive counterplay (notably Hypno, one of the few Psychic types in the tier!) for most teams without a cleric, while being able to check a wide variety of special attackers AND having a Toxic immunity is what gives it such a big boon - in essence, the combination of these makes it deceptively obnoxious for most teams to deal with, especially in the early stages where Spikes aren't necessarily up yet.

Credits to Ark for both of these sets / EV spreads and the team that follows. Not going to rehash myself too much on what the moves do aside from the basics, but the spreads are very important here.


Muk @ Leftovers
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 212 HP / 116 Atk / 44 Def / 136 SpD
Brave Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Ice Punch
- Explosion

As mentioned before, Muk has a lot of coverage... or at the least, it has all it needs. It also gets stuff like Fire Blast, which doesn't actually do anything at all aside doing more to plume i guess even though you risk missing!! but for some reason it's on the calc. God bless the old meta because they always find ways to just blow my mind. It also can do HP Grass / Giga Drain shenangians to punish Omastar, but imo you're better off being directly threatening to Tentacruel than that, and again, fishing with Sludge Bomb is good enough anyway. It does depend on the team compositon. Ice Punch dicks Gligar and Altaria, and boom is self explanatory. To that end, the spread does a few things; after one layer of Spikes, it'll always live an Earthquake from unboosted Adamant Gligar. This in itself seems a little iffy, but similar to Nidoqueen interactions with Tentacruel, being able to trade removes a key piece on their team which allows you to clean up with a number of other stuff. Granted, unlike that, without any SpA investment you're not actually killing Gligar, but;

116+ Atk Muk Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gligar: 59-70 (21.6 - 25.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery


0 SpA Muk Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gligar: 221-260 (81.2 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


This makes it so that if it switches in, it's just flat out dying. Keep in mind this is not a cue to say "yeah just trade immediately" - in the flip side, you can't just immediately take that risk early on without knowing the rest of their team. On bulky offenses that rely on this + something like a Rest Kanga for a bit of defensive utility towards special mons, it's probably prudent to scout out the rest of their team before deciding to make those kinds of concessions. You also can't just assume Muk will be healthy the entire game, cause well after all Spikes are so dominant.

252 SpA Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 212 HP / 136 SpD Muk: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 212 HP / 136 SpD Muk: 176-208 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

92 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 212 HP / 136 SpD Muk: 105-124 (25.9 - 30.6%) -- 3.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

116+ Atk Muk Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Tentacruel: 205-242 (68.1 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


The teams you'll generally find this on are some slower bulky offenses - pairing this with the obvious things like Gligar is really nice as Muk checks most prominent Gligar answers. Having spinners is nice too cause Muk doesn't like them at all (this is probably what makes Vileplume better than it, as Moonlight makes it so that it's not entirely at mercy against aggressive play, as well as it being actually able to check Fightings). Tentacruel is pretty awkward with it, however, so you probably want to just use Hitmontop with it.

Muk @ Leftovers
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 212 HP / 136 Atk / 160 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Rest

Now, this set....is absolutely fantastic honestly. Like, it still faces some of the same issues that the other set does, but if you manage to get it going it is one of the best, if not the best, conservative wincons (the others being stuff like CM Slowking, Curse Walrein, and I guess CM Hypno? being the most common, though obviously there are others worth playing around with) in the tier, especially if they're lacking Gligar. While this set pretty much necessitates a spinner, arguably moreso than the above one, as well as Heal Bell, the framework that you kind of have to make with it is very much worth it. It couples the key factors of Muk, that being a roadblock to special attackers if healthy while also just spamming Sludge Bomb i promise this is the last time i say this, but also has much more staying power. To put it into perspective, if you get a Curse up while Hypno switches in, you have the potential to 1v1 it, as a non invested Psychic is most likely going to 4HKO.

0 SpA Hypno Psychic vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Muk: 132-156 (31.8 - 37.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 136+ Atk Muk Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Hypno: 181-214 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The attack isn't necessarily amazing odds when you factor in Protect, but with poison chances it's still great, especially considering most Hypno these days don't really run this much and prefer to go more in the specially defensive route for electric checking purposes i think?


You'll need to put in about 20 more SpD for it to go from 0.1 to 0...so yeah not worth it lol. Anyhow, that in itself is a huge gain to make given how a lot of Hypno teams are so reliant on it, and if you manage to get up anymore, well, against most standard teams they are either going to need to rely on their Gligar, or hax. That's how much of a strain this thing puts on. That being said, it does require you to make a more passive build overall, which isn't always the greatest (though this is partly biased on my end because I hate Altaria and whenever I use it it sucks). You are not going to just naturally have all the conditions given to you and it'll require some doing to really ensure the payoff, but that goes for other wincons as well.



This is a team that I and some others have used to success over the past few months made by Ark. It shows off the aforementioned support needed to make this Muk set shine. It is definitely slower compared to other teams, given its stall-ish nature, as the fastest mon is Altaria lol, but the defensive backbone given is strong enough to where it's not really damning, and most teams like this generally will not be focused around the sort of playstyle where a Scyther or a Manectric is gonna clean up. Anyhow, you're generally going to be trying to apply pressure early on with Walrein and Spikes, though nothing on this team is really that passive in a direct sense other than Altaria. You have a very solid backbone here with ProTox Oma and SpD Wish Kanga, with Hitmontop and Altaria preventing you from getting overwhelmed too much by Spikes and status spam respectively. You also have three Toxic users here which is obviously nice cause it's Toxic lol. Gradually, you're aiming to put yourself in a position where Muk can comfortably set up, though it does have breaking potential by itself so it's not going to be useless without one, after all it still has that defensive utility. There are a few edits you can make here - Rest Kanga works as well so you're not as reliant on Altaria for sponging Toxics, and you can run whatever on Walrein cause lol it has a ton of options. Earthquake, Toxic, and Roar are all fine here. If you do go EQ however you should probably go Brave for better Tenta insurance.

A few games with the team;

Bouff vs Thiago Nunes - This one really showcases what Muk can do as a wincon. Not gonna lie I definitely did not play my best here and it took me way too long to realize that Muk could 1v1 Hypno, but once Golem goes down gradually it became easier for me to get in a position where Muk could set up and it goes as planned. Was also kinda tilted sorry Thiago D:

eden vs Finding True Love - Very long winded one, but despite FTL's status spam sunny is pretty comfortable all around thanks to his defensive backbone. Muk is not too involved here, but it's still valuable in this matchup thanks to being a great answer to Lanturn, being more comfortable switching in to it than Kanga, as it can afford to get paralyzed way more than it thanks to it having Rest and uh, Kanga not having Rest.

BKC vs Hogg - Oma goes down very early in this one, but the early game Spike ended up being beneficial in the long run thanks to the nature of Hogg's lack of a spinner. The combination of Muk + Kanga + Altaria makes it difficult for Hogg to make progress (coupled with the freeze on Electabuzz). Muk does work nicely here through forcing Gligar to trade for damage on it after being weakened by constantly having to come in on Hitmontop after being poisoned. Having that alongside the SpDef Kanga turned out pretty nicely facing ElecSpam which is always a super threatening playstyle to come across, as after killing a weakened Muk, Electrode is forced to boom on Kanga. Really nice game that ends out pretty closely.
 
BUMP

edit: removing pastes of squads for now coz ngl kinda forgot uupl is coming up, but will put them back when I feel like it.

hello friends i played adv uu this year for uu snake (go dragonairs woo) and would like to share the teams i used + the small amount of metagame thoughts i had. i've always enjoyed this tier but this tournament took adv uu to the next level imo and i was happy to be a part of it.

plume tenta spikes.png


to start off the season i just wanted to start with something "solid." as vague as that is, solid to me in this tier is packing as many tools as possible. this team managed to utilize spikes, aroma, wish, and spin all while managing a fair amount of offensive presence. nothing special, just a balance attack hoping to wear down teams with kang / glig / tenta with spikes. might not be a secret anymore but i basically run qa on most of my gligs because its so useful as an emergency button, should probably start mixing in some iron tail.

amph + cm xatu.png

for this particular week i was up against star and while i firmly believe he's one of the best overall players on the site, i knew one advantage i might have was overall knowledge of the tier. he was probably going to be passed a team, so if i could build something solid with a few not-so-common sets thrown in i think id have a good chance. spd kang was something i hadn't used much at all (at this point) and that + heal bell ampharos felt like a good support start. amph is really hard to fit on spikes due to compounding ground weaknesses so i just went the spikeless route, relying on wish + heal bell + offensive pressure to give me an overall edge. he ended up bringing an interesting water spam, luckily walrein + kang + amph provided a perfect counterplay to this, especially with hp ice amph being able to lure glig.

manec nido scyther.png

at this point there were 2 pokemon i really wanted to bring that i hadn't yet: scyther and muk. both were threatening and useful enough to build solid teams around and i kinda just played with teammates until i felt comfortable with something. i really didn't have much omastar / spikes use in general from previous tours and i felt like now might be the time to break out as offensive a spikes scyther squad as i could muster. kang / scyther / nido / manec form as threatening of an offensive quartet as you can find in adv uu, and surprisingly enough provide equally important defensive counterplay to threats simply through typing and speed. omastar and walrein were just thrown on for spikes and as an overall glue, respectively. admittedly, walrein is a really bastardized set, but i needed to fit another glig check, tenta switch, and basically a mon that could check anything at least once. enter roar walrein. this way i could check what i want, abuse spikes through roar as well as get rid of any annoying opposing boosters, all while still providing offensive pressure with invested ice beam + eq coverage.

curse muk luna.png


if i didnt use it last week i was going to use it this week. muk, as ive alluded to before, is such an amazing mon. it's basically the snorlax of adv uu if snorlax didnt have to contend with sand damage. great stats, stab sludge bomb, all the coverage it needs to lure potential counters and explosion to round it all out certainly make it a top tier threat. traditionally, 2 atk curse rest would be the normal set. unfortunately, this kinda pigeon holes the rest of the team members you can possibly use. kanga + muk + a beller means you are most likely running altaria, it being the only beller that can reasonably check the grounds that give curse muk problems. apart from altaria being a complete shit do-nothing mon other than toxic and hb, it basically guarantees that you need spikes to gain enough offensive pressure, and from there you only have 2 slots to do what you want. don't get me wrong, i've seen this specific team structure work, it's just not really my style so i decided to look elsewhere. i still really wanted to use curse + 2 attack and realized that its poison typing provided built in protection vs the only status im really worried about. i slapped on protect > rest on muk, took some inspiration from a previous bouff squad i had, and felt comfortable putting together the rest of the mons. cm lunatone pairs incredible well with muk, providing boosting pressure from both attacking sides and luna being able to check non itail gligar with ease. spin tenta + golem provide much needed spin + the kang/ scyther check i needed, and sd reversal scyther is an amazing wincon in case everything else goes to shit.

double ground bouff.png

didn't have the motivation i usually have when it comes to building so i was going to bring a linoone squad for most of the week. last minute i pussied out because i didn't want to be a douchebag and i just loaded up a bouff squad that i altered a little bit to my liking. basically just a solid double ground balance. got slightly lucky with a speed tie vs qwilfish, otherwise gligar just cleaned tf up. also my first usage of 2 atk tox kang !

lannturn xatu queen.png

almost all of ftl's leads were waters or elecs and i had been wanting to run lanturn so i was like bop this is the week. lanturn automatically makes builds a little awkward because you're using a water slot on something that doesn't check grounds. oh well, slap on the best ground check we have in xatu and we're off to a cool start. lanturn / kang / xatu / oma came together pretty quickly and then i noticed nido slotted in nicely, specifically queen because i had formulated this particular set i wanted to try. i had a lot of trouble deciding on the last slot, i could use another glig check and i literally had never used a ghost before this so thought it might be time to throw in a spin block. again, this is the only set i'd really consider running on missy and i think it worked out pretty well.

sun offense.png

last week of the season. i actually had cooked this up the week prior but i promised ip that i wouldnt bring it vs ftl. this obviously is a far cry from what i've traditionally brought and definitely more on the matchup fishy side, but i had been wnating to bring magmar for a while, noticed it didn't really have much use for its 4th slot other than sunny day and thought why not push "sun" as far as i could go. charcoal magmar was the base, threw on vileplume to take secondary advantage of sun. oh and what other broken offensive threat might be able to? morning sun scyther lgi. kang + oma were just offensive staples to round it out and why not slap on electrode to just blanket check everthing with speed and explosion.

aggro scyth cb balance.png

i had a couple builds in mind for this because 1. it was playoffs and 2.bkc is probably the most respected overall adv player of all time. looking back on it, i wish i would of brought the spikes nido squad i had loaded in the back (fun fact: all previous attempts at bringing a nido of any sort had been unrevealed), but going into it i felt really confident in this pick. i wanted to use something with enough pressure to break thru defensive shit while simultaneously using some mons that bouff or bkc might not expect me to bring. tox kang had continued to pick up in usage and my rocker could use some variation, so i immediately thought about building around double cb aggron + scyther. i could use wish kang to keep them healthy and then just fill out the rest of the team with glue. overall i think this is a really unique team and banders need to be explored more in general. unfortunately bkc brought a really tight squadron with a good enough mix of defensive and offensive prowess to break through.

---

Metagame thoughts:

Leads
novel concept but the lead slots in adv uu tend to revolve around the 3 best mons in the meta. kang simply 1v1s most mons in the meta, fast or slow depending on the set, so naturally it flourishes when you're trying to gain an edge. omastar checks kang and is the best spikes setter in the tier so again, naturally, it also leans towards being a good lead. and then you have walrein, who similar to kang has the bulk + offensive fortitude to stack up well vs most threats. it can hold its own against kang (kinda) and obliterate oma with hp grass as well so it has that going for it. beyond those big 3, you have a branch-off of what i see as quality leads in adv uu. usually these are going to be your electrics and fighters. wanna deter oma / walrein and gain some offensive momentum? manectric and lanturn are your guys. also, if you didnt already notice, all 3 of the big leads are weak to fighting. so, while generally not as momentum grabbing as elecs (due to there being a bunch of diverse checks), fighters can fulfill a similar role.

KINGHASKHAN
there's not a ton i want to touch upon when it comes to kang; it being the best mon in the tier kinda speaks to how important it is anyways. despite this, i KEEP seeing people load up cb kang (it was brought twice vs me) and something needs to be said. i get that in a vacuum its a solid cber, but thats just completely ignoring how dominant a mon it is outside of being locked into a move. kang is so good because it kills everything and outlasts everything. you're trading all of its upside for a little extra power on a choice-locked normal attack. adamant double edge + coverage is still chunking whatever you could possibly need and you get to keep lefties + broken early bird rest. if you need fake out priority i would advise you to reverse and find another way to beat salac mons.

in terms of what sets kang should be running, it seems like the meta has basically devolved into 2 main sets: offensive and spd wish. offensive sets are your traditional adamant spread + whatever mix of bulk and speed your specific squad needs. i tend to lean towards outrunning neutral base 70s as a good midground no matter what. offensive is basically dedge / eq / rest / and a choice between sball or toxic. sball provides immediate answer to potential checks such as missy or the psy/rocks, while tox can help vs the same threats long term while also just providing good tox spam in general. spd sets were traditionally wish tox protect but as esche astutely pointed out, kang still has broken early bird rest so its hard to argue that wish + rest is is not the dominant defensive set with all the tox running around. that said tho, if you can fit a beller onto a squad (not hard), protect still has a ton of benefit.

Underrated Mons
just a quick rundown of some mons i think need some more use. xatu is numero uno on this list. it has a great speed tier, great offensive typing + ground immunity, and just a godly movepool. oh and have we covered broken early bird rest?. having said all that, it really only needs one set: cm/ psychic/ reflect/ rest. xatu absorbs status, checks gligar, can cm sweep, supports the squad with reflect (may i remind you best mon in the tier is kang), and outruns everything other than tenta + the 105 crowd. this mon is awesome and it's not getting the usage it deserves. ampharos is everything u want in a electric other than the speed. it has the highest spa stat in the tier, so even when you're running a bulk spread its doing damage. the main selling point is heal bell though, and as ill expand upon later, heal bell is good ! with waters being as good as they are and most elec checks being hp ice weak, amph provides a refreshing plug to some specific team arches. muk checks every non-psychic special attacker in the tier, is immune to toxic , and curse boosts with sludge bomb stab. this mon is always going to be a threat, and while teams might need to be more specifically tailored to support it, i believe its cemented itself as a base for one of the better team arches in the tier. slowking, in a similar vein, is a mon that can check a plethora of shit on the physical side while simultaneously cm boost with some great stabs. both really prefer heal bell support, but aside from that can be great standalone bulky boosters. lastly, golem is basically my plead that spikes (omastar) are 100% not absolutely needed in adv uu. on almost all of my non spikes teams, golem fills the kang + scyther check role. quakeedge coverage coming off 110 base atk is going to hurt everything, and tox protect just adds the bread and butter for it to check what it needs + annoy any potential switchins. it has the added bonus of being able to run rock blast as well, meaning its one of the best ways to check reversal scyther without random priority.


Overrated Mons
now for me to shit on some mons. hypno, despite my use of it week 1, has firmly proved that it is not of the top tier ilk anymore. once upon a time, i think people saw great spd stats + wish and automatically assumed it was the bee's knees. unfortunately, with toxspam being at an all time high and hypno having to check things with sheer bulk most of the time, its use has kinda faded out. not only that, but as was explained earlier, spd kang has quickly become one of its better sets, and on any team you're running that, hypno is just an afterthought. ive literally run misdreavus exactly 1 time in adv uu and that was to change up my scouts + wanting to try tox / psy / taunt / pain split, which is probably the only set i would run. i don't know why people run cm anymore, it doesnt have the power to back up its non-stab moves and just gets overrun by most of what it's trying to check or even spinblock. fearow is bad, scyther is going to be your offensive flyer + priority most of the time and if ur running scythe + fearow the team is already a bit iffy. solrock doesn't really check kang apart from explosion so i don't really get the use behind it, other than that lunatone is better. maybe cb can be cool on like a double rock cb squad (other rocks are probs better if you only want one rock bander) but ive yet to try out. ill never get blastoise usage because theres way better waters and if you want a water spinner tenta checks the grounds you wanna beat just by outspeeding them and is just better.
 
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Hi,

Considering this is the meta of the month, why is Baton pass chains allowed in this tier, full chains? This is all I keep seeing people spam and it's obnoxious and impossible to account for multiple abusers and passers that can be utilized. This meta would actually seem enjoyable if it wasn't riddled with these clickers and cheese factors. Thanks.
 
Hi,

Considering this is the meta of the month, why is Baton pass chains allowed in this tier, full chains? This is all I keep seeing people spam and it's obnoxious and impossible to account for multiple abusers and passers that can be utilized. This meta would actually seem enjoyable if it wasn't riddled with these clickers and cheese factors. Thanks.

putting it bluntly, as far as i know most if not all of the general playerbase would like it gone but with the lock for old gen lower tiers in place not much can be done about it (though id like to open that discussion back up, because there is a lot of stuff within these tiers that has no right being allowed, bp being at the forefront of them). the uu team tours currently have had it banned since 2018, pretty much for the reasons you've stated and that the methods of consistent (using that term loosely here) counterplay are pretty much roar and boom. for what it's worth, it's allowed in uu classic and had little to no usage there, but that's moreso because the players who made it far in that tour had almost entirely used teams that were built in respect to the team tour meta. i dont think there was any official agreement in the playoffs between anyone to not use bp but no one really likes using it because it's grating and unenjoyable. i'd honestly say that, despite having an unofficial ban, uupl / snake etc have more of an accurate representation of the tier in an ideal sense because well, that's what happens when you remove bp.
 
hello, wanted to do my own take on the adv uu viability rankings, which i see as out of date for the current adv uu meta (most notably due to the massive increase in prominence of vileplume). this isnt an official update, nobody else participated in this; i just wanted to move some mons around and see what i felt better about than the current VR. I inserted text blurbs where I felt like it, I think S through A+ is pretty much covered by Bouff's writeups so I talked more about the A rank mons.


S+
:Kangaskhan: Kangaskhan

S
:omastar: Omastar
:scyther: Scyther
:vileplume: Vileplume
:tentacruel: Tentacruel

S-
:walrein: Walrein
:gligar: Gligar

[BIG GAP]

A+
:hitmontop: Hitmontop
:nidoking: Nidoking
:misdreavus: Misdreavus
:ampharos: Ampharos - access to the very useful Heal Bell, great bulk + typing that lets it hold back and threaten offensive threats like Scyther, Swords Dance Tentacruel, and Walrein make Ampharos worthy of a big rise from B to A+.

A
:linoone: Linoone - BEAST with good support; does require support but can sweep with ease if it has it & is put in the right position
:grumpig: Grumpig - The lack of Psychic resists (and many relevant Psychic-weak mons) in the current metagame, unique, useful tools like Counter and Thief, and the ability to switch into Walrein well with Thick Fat make Grumpig worthy of a rise from B+ to A
:cradily: Cradily - Hard mon to fit on teams but very useful when it is; owned by Toxic, but as with Hypno below HBell support can go a long way. Holds back a lot of otherwise very threatening stuff late-game, and access to Recover is very rare in the tier.
:lunatone: Lunatone
:solrock: Solrock
:pinsir: Pinsir - Pinsir's also underappreciated; it doesn't like Scyther and Gligar forcing it out, but Scyther is possibly OHKOed on the switch by Rock Slide and Gligar is forced into a speed tie once weakened. Teams without one of those two fold to Pinsir extremely hard. Its bulk, high Attack, and SD make it a great mon at winning 1v1s.
:ELECTRODE: Electrode - I think Electrode is fairly underappreciated. It's the best offensive Electric to me; Booming in ADV is extremely threatening, its Speed tier gives bulky offensive teams a natural safety net against Tentacruel and non-Salac Berry Scyther (not Speed tie-ing this is a big advantage Trode has over other elecs!), and it can be a win-con itself if another teammate weakened checks like Vileplume and Ampharos.
:hypno: Hypno - down from its former place at top of A+, Toxic being everywhere really hinders its ability to wall things, but it has great bulk, useful support options, and can be supported with Aromatherapy to not be totally useless.
:granbull: Granbull - I find this mon only fits on normal spam, which I personally rate lower than Electric spam as an offensive archetype.
:manectric: Manectric


A-
:xatu: Xatu - rises all the way up from C+ due to the great speed tier, psychic's offensive properties as a typing right now, and access to Reflect, Early Bird Rest, CM, THief that make its flagship sets good.
:nidoqueen: Nidoqueen
:electabuzz: Electabuzz
:lanturn: Lanturn
:muk: Muk
:blastoise: Blastoise
:ninetales: Ninetales
:altaria: Altaria

B+
:slowking: Slowking
:sandslash: Sandslash <- near the top of B+ now, Vileplume being the most common grass means that EQ is threatening to much of the tier and slash has the bulk to take advantage of that
:primeape: Primeape
:qwilfish: Qwilfish - Spikes + HP Grass lead makes a ton of progress against standard BO
:gorebyss: Gorebyss - Rain is for sure underappreciated right now
:fearow: Fearow - relevant on normal spam offense, DEdge / Drill Peck / HPGround / Quick Attack is a big threat vs teams that can't keep Omastar healthy
:poliwrath: Poliwrath - BD is killer on HOs
:glalie: Glalie - has a relevant niche on HO / hard offense with Spikes + HP Grass; gets them up without having Qwilfish's frailty and weaknesses, which is useful when one anticipates you to bring a HO lead in a tournament setting and attempts to counter lead it

=== ngl I really dont care abt the mons below this point ===

B:
:hitmonlee: Hitmonlee
:sharpedo: Sharpedo
:aggron: Aggron
:golduck: Golduck
:magmar: Magmar
:golem: Golem
:camerupt: Camerupt
:quagsire: Quagsire
:clefable: Clefable
:kabutops: Kabutops
:banette: Banette
:meganium: Meganium
:shiftry: Shiftry


roast / discuss / ask away! one relevant note: the tier is very top heavy, so S tiers are a lot more relevant than the A tiers. There's a big gap between the mons in S- and A+, for instance.

sorry this post isnt super thorough, im busy, but i hope u all enjoyed seeing this laid out. PLEASE discuss what you think should be higher and lower, i'd def be interested to hear that!
 
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looks like a pretty solid update Expulso, def agreed that this needed some maintenance. just a couple of thoughts from my end…

although I agree that vileplume is plenty due for a rise, I think sitting with walrein / glig in S- is fine for it. while it’s a great general sponge and a capable offensive threat, I don’t think it defines the meta as much as oma / scyther / tenta do in the builder or in practice. in fact, for its defensive merits, it loses pretty hard to any of the top tier offensive mons that surround it in S anyways. really good glue mon, but that’s why I think it belongs with the 2 other rly good glues (walrein / glig).

as for other things that I think might be too high, although underrated for sure pinsir is def not A rank. it has to compete too hard with other mid speed tier SDers for a team slot, especially ones that help much more defensively (pinsir switches into basically nothing) and like u mentioned always runs the risk of being forced out by the 2 very common flyers.

blastoise and ninetales are ungood and I will die on this hill. toise is outclassed by other waters that actually do something and tenta is almost always a better spinner. I don’t rly get the use behind tales other than setting up a linoone sweep with fspin hypno maybe? idk doesn’t seem to fit on many builds, doesn’t rly check much and it’s offense leaves much to be desired. I’d probably use magmar if I wanted an offensive fire and that’s not saying much.

grumpig might be something I need to try more as you’re definitely not the only one talking about / using it, I’ve just always had a tough time justifying it over other cm psychics. lunatone, despite having a marginally worse speed tier, has better resistances and fares better vs spd kang and xatu has a way better speed tier, ground immune and rly nice tools in being able to fit reflect + eb rest. again, the bulk is nice and it’s been picking up in usage so maybe I’m missing something, but just a preference thing.

agreed that linoone deserves A rank, thing is absolutely insane. sure it needs support in the form of screens or intimidate, but if you can get a bd off it’s essentially gg. I think the reasonable things that can tank one of +6 espeed, sball, hp fight are like max def oma, golem, and walrein all near max health. other than that the counter play is jolly hitmonlee mach punch and cb scyth qa if low enough health? I actually think noone is bannable tbh, only reason it’s not more on the radar is because people have honor. there’s def an optimized build out there.

speaking of golem, I think ur selling it short on the “wouldn’t use” category. it’s the single best mon to slap on a team to simultaneously handle arguably the 2 most dangerous mons in the tier (offensive kang and sd scyther), most notably on omaless teams. in a similar vein, I’m not a huge fan of lefties sets like some others are, but I think cb aggron has use simply for being able to use spd kang as a free switch. still, very limited tho. the aforementioned hitmonlee also has a solid niche utilizing cb too, p good speed tier, huge atk stat and always useful priority.

———

overall a really good list, sorry I don’t have tier suggestions to back up my claims but I’d like to get my own rankings up soon
 
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Hogg

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Some general thoughts:

:muk: :electrode: :solrock:
Explosion in general has been really heavily on my mind lately when I think about ADV UU. We're in a pretty bulky cycle of the ADV UU metagame right now (interspersed with the occasional Linoone HO to keep you on your toes), and boomspam has been one of my favorite ways to break these teams down. It helps that really solid 'mons like Muk and Solrock get boom, so fitting on multiple boom users isn't that oppressive in the builder. Muk in particular is always really difficult to play around in practice, between the threat of a strong Sludge Bomb and boom. It's also why I think Electrode is easily the best electric (well, that and the fact that it actually reliably RKs Scyther, unlike the others...). I've built a couple of BO teams with dual Explosion and they've felt really strong to me in this meta.

:slowking: :lanturn:
I absolutely love specially offensive Slowking and Lanturn. They're surprisingly annoying to switch into, with Ice Beam from Modest Lanturn 3HKOing even SDef Plume and both Slowking and Lanturn able to do enough damage with their STABs to force most Kangas into Rest cycles. They also offer a lot of nice bulk to most teams. The fact that they're coming in and out, rather than being expected to sweep (please don't bother with Calm Mind on Slowking, it never works), means they don't mind Toxic as much as others either. In both cases I've mostly been running 2 attacks + status + Protect (TBolt/IB/Toxic/Tect on Lanturn, Surf/Psychic/TWave/Tect on Slowking), though 3 attacks is good too. Anyhow both have some very relevant niches over their main competition, Walrein, that make them viable alternatives that I think should be used more.

:kangaskhan:
Is it time for SubPunch Kanga to make a resurgence? For a while it was THE Kanga set, because it just crapped all over the Hypno/Plume balances that were everywhere. Things have stabilized quite a bit since then, and there is a very real opportunity cost to running any set that isn't 3 attacks + Rest (or 2 attacks + Tox + Rest for those cheeky folks who don't mind losing to Missy packing Rest, Sub, Taunt, Imprison or one of the many other ways it has of not caring about Tox). But I've still found myself tempted, because SubPunch has felt surprisingly potent against a lot of the teams I've been seeing in UUPL and ADVPL. Hypno usage is obviously way down, but then so is Roar Alt usage, and with things like Vileplume on the rise it still has a number of opportunities to get up a Sub and start collecting kills. I'm not convinced it's going to supplant offensive Rest Kanga any time soon, but it does feel like a good anti-meta pick right now.

Anyhow, I mostly agree with Expulso's ratings. I think that the meta will probably adjust to the Vileplume surge and we'll see it drop down to S-, but for now S feels fine. I think Banette deserves a bit of a rise. It may be frail, but with Insomnia and Ghost typing I don't usually struggle to get it in play, and there is very little that wants to switch into Shadow Ball/HP Fighting/WoW coming off of that Attack stat. It can also do niche stuff like Salac DBond, but really I think it's just a solid offensive threat that a lot of teams are underprepped for. I think Nidoqueen being two whole subranks below Nidoking feels wrong also. Both are really annoying to switch into, but Nidoqueen's bulk and access to Superpower are both really relevant reasons to run her over her more offensive brother. Honestly I usually prefer Queen to King these days, especially with Hitmontop usage so high lately. I also remain a huge Altaria fan and think it's a bit low (Bell/Haze/Roar support and the most reliable Gligar/Scyther check in the tier), but I know not everyone loves Puff the Magic Dragon as much as I do. Still, for all its complaints about passivity, with Spikes support and Roar it can become quite obnoxious, and Natural Cure is just so so good in a Tox-infested metagame like this.
 
I signed up just to ask this question. So I hope it is allowed. I was just wondering why certain Smogon profiles for Pokemon have recent updates with the changing meta, but others haven't been updated in like 10 years. Take Electrode for example. In both this thread - and the old ADV UU rank thread both threads seem to rank Electrode as a pretty viable UU Pokemon. Compared to other electrics in UU both threads agree it's easily better than Raichu. With some agreeing it's better than Ampharos and some put it around the same area as Electabuzz and Manectric or even higher than them. Yet, it's Smogon profile page states and I quote: ''Sadly, it is probably one of the worst Electric-types, possibly surpassing only Minun and Plusle.''

https://www.smogon.com/dex/rs/pokemon/electrode/uu/

This clearly isn't true, so why can't someone update Electrode's Smogon page with accurate information? A bunch of ADV NU profiles all got updated, but some UU Pokemon like Electrode haven't been updated in many years. People getting into new Pokemon gens for competitively play, or even those who are who are totally new to competitive Pokemon often use Smogon as a guide for movesets and to build teams. If a new player wanted to play ADV UU and read Electrode's Smogon description they would assume it's the worst Electric in UU and probably wouldn't use it, while these forums give a completely different picture. But the casuals won't be on the forums. ADV seems to be by far Electrode's most viable generation, but it's Smogon profile completely craps on it, probably written by someone who hates Electrode and never actually realised it's viability in ADV UU.
 

Ophion

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I signed up just to ask this question. So I hope it is allowed. I was just wondering why certain Smogon profiles for Pokemon have recent updates with the changing meta, but others haven't been updated in like 10 years. Take Electrode for example. In both this thread - and the old ADV UU rank thread both threads seem to rank Electrode as a pretty viable UU Pokemon. Compared to other electrics in UU both threads agree it's easily better than Raichu. With some agreeing it's better than Ampharos and some put it around the same area as Electabuzz and Manectric or even higher than them. Yet, it's Smogon profile page states and I quote: ''Sadly, it is probably one of the worst Electric-types, possibly surpassing only Minun and Plusle.''

https://www.smogon.com/dex/rs/pokemon/electrode/uu/

This clearly isn't true, so why can't someone update Electrode's Smogon page with accurate information? A bunch of ADV NU profiles all got updated, but some UU Pokemon like Electrode haven't been updated in many years. People getting into new Pokemon gens for competitively play, or even those who are who are totally new to competitive Pokemon often use Smogon as a guide for movesets and to build teams. If a new player wanted to play ADV UU and read Electrode's Smogon description they would assume it's the worst Electric in UU and probably wouldn't use it, while these forums give a completely different picture. But the casuals won't be on the forums. ADV seems to be by far Electrode's most viable generation, but it's Smogon profile completely craps on it, probably written by someone who hates Electrode and never actually realised it's viability in ADV UU.
A lot of past gen, especially past gen lower tier, analyses are very outdated due to not being updated in a long time as a result of the new current gen taking a lot of resources and these past gen analyses only getting updated slow but surely over the past like 2 or so years. So no, it wasn't because of some random bias against Electrode lol. For the past gens, especially past gen lower tiers, use the forums and discords dedicated to them to learn the current metagames proper.
 

vapicuno

你的价值比自己想象中的所有还要低。我却早已解脱,享受幸福
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I signed up just to ask this question. So I hope it is allowed. I was just wondering why certain Smogon profiles for Pokemon have recent updates with the changing meta, but others haven't been updated in like 10 years. Take Electrode for example. In both this thread - and the old ADV UU rank thread both threads seem to rank Electrode as a pretty viable UU Pokemon. Compared to other electrics in UU both threads agree it's easily better than Raichu. With some agreeing it's better than Ampharos and some put it around the same area as Electabuzz and Manectric or even higher than them. Yet, it's Smogon profile page states and I quote: ''Sadly, it is probably one of the worst Electric-types, possibly surpassing only Minun and Plusle.''

https://www.smogon.com/dex/rs/pokemon/electrode/uu/

This clearly isn't true, so why can't someone update Electrode's Smogon page with accurate information? A bunch of ADV NU profiles all got updated, but some UU Pokemon like Electrode haven't been updated in many years. People getting into new Pokemon gens for competitively play, or even those who are who are totally new to competitive Pokemon often use Smogon as a guide for movesets and to build teams. If a new player wanted to play ADV UU and read Electrode's Smogon description they would assume it's the worst Electric in UU and probably wouldn't use it, while these forums give a completely different picture. But the casuals won't be on the forums. ADV seems to be by far Electrode's most viable generation, but it's Smogon profile completely craps on it, probably written by someone who hates Electrode and never actually realised it's viability in ADV UU.
Writing analyses on-site takes quite a fair bit of work and everyone who writes these analyses contributes without any monetary reward. Whether these analyses are updated depends on the will of the metagame (in this case, ADV UU) community, or individuals in the community, to write.

Usually, I would move your post to the beginner's hub thread, but I'll treat this as a call for the ADV UU community to write and leave it here for their visibility.
 
I’ve made snark comments about it for a while, especially after the Conk ban in oras, but I think it’s time we had a real discussion about Linoone. This mon is absurdly broken when set up, easily plowing through most of the tier and not being able to be revenged due to espeed. Your outs essentially consist of full health max def omastar (oma is not a late game stash, it’s going to be chipped) cb qa scyther + making sure to get an attack in on linoone when setting up or like salac endure banette. Needless to say, this is a very limited way of dealing with linoone, essentially putting the onus of beating it on not letting it set up. This is also very hard not only because there is no team preview allowing you to prepare for Noone from turn 1 but also because there is ample amount of ways in the form of either screens or memento that can make the rats job even easier with minimal effort or repercussions. Noone offense has become the easy button for ADV UU and it’s kinda disgusting. I feel like this tier has grown a lot despite the relative top heaviness and is overall very enjoyable to play, but the looming possibility of getting nooned has definitely soured the competitiveness (sorry I hate this word but couldn’t think of something else) in my eyes.
 
I’ve made snark comments about it for a while, especially after the Conk ban in oras, but I think it’s time we had a real discussion about Linoone. This mon is absurdly broken when set up, easily plowing through most of the tier and not being able to be revenged due to espeed. Your outs essentially consist of full health max def omastar (oma is not a late game stash, it’s going to be chipped) cb qa scyther + making sure to get an attack in on linoone when setting up or like salac endure banette. Needless to say, this is a very limited way of dealing with linoone, essentially putting the onus of beating it on not letting it set up. This is also very hard not only because there is no team preview allowing you to prepare for Noone from turn 1 but also because there is ample amount of ways in the form of either screens or memento that can make the rats job even easier with minimal effort or repercussions. Noone offense has become the easy button for ADV UU and it’s kinda disgusting. I feel like this tier has grown a lot despite the relative top heaviness and is overall very enjoyable to play, but the looming possibility of getting nooned has definitely soured the competitiveness (sorry I hate this word but couldn’t think of something else) in my eyes.
I would agree with this. The main difference between prepping for linoone and prepping for other cheese is that Linoone has priority and high speed. You can't just throw hitmonlee, kanga, or hitmontop with a priority move like you can to handle end/rev mons. It's faster than every ghost and smacks with Shadow Ball. Linoone can run salac, lefties, or lum and you're basically guessing before you hit it with a move.
 
I think it's rather silly that people see no issue with most teams running Kangaskhan virtually unchallenged.

There are indeed some checks to the mon but there's nothing in the tier that could be used that would discourage anyone from including Kangaskhan on their own team.

Its nigh omnipresence isn't necessarily an indication of being "overpowered", as it is merely a strong and versatile mon in its own right, but the fact that you almost never need to second guess the decision to add it to your team seems to me to indicate a poverty of countermeasures in the tier that is directly related to the absurd composition of the UUBL banlist, which is too large and contains too many key mons which would go a long way in disrupting the current Kang-dominated meta.

This is an issue of variety. A tier becomes more interesting the more ways there are to play it. The current prevalence of Kangaskhan makes a number of potential picks in terms of mons and strategies already available in the tier less viable.

It's of course ridiculous to suggest banning Kangaskhan. But it's clearly in a league of its own that brushes up against the quality of mons directly excluded from the tier, and far above that of its lesser-picked tier-mates.

If it might be fairly havoc inducing to begin selectively freeing large amounts of UUBL mons into UU, given the disparity in quality among mons already in the tier, then it would seem to me that a move like introducing a Gen3RU could be called for.

Playing and spectating this tier myself in PS! room tours and friendlies, I've noticed certain mons are far more common and far more rare than others, for easily understood reasons (and the same obtains for Gen3NU, by the by). If certain mons effectively languish in a tier that they really can't hold their own in, which I absolutely do not see being the case in the current iteration of Gen3OU, it makes sense to me to move them to another tier.

Kangaskhan being a "glue" of the tier indicates to me that there's a lack of strong options within it. If you were to move Kangaskhan to UUBL and have that as a playable tier, you would absolutely not see it being the top dog, and in fact it would no longer be a virtually automatic and given team inclusion considering the availablity of checks and counters like Machamp, Blaziken, Registeel, and Regirock.

All this to say that although I have not experienced any discussions that may have occurred surrounding this topic, nor any arguments or rationale for either side other than what I have formulated myself, I find the sacred cow syndrome of UU here to be silly and even unjustified when its dominance is both artificial, not necessarily even exciting in terms of what it does for the game, and also even oppressive in terms of how it goes on to define team structure in a way that, again, makes certain options not as good since they cannot really deal with it.

Again, I am not at all proposing a Kangaskhan ban at all. I'm saying that UUBL should be reexamined for mons that would go a long way in disrupting the Kang meta, and if that means the viability of other mons in the tier would be (further) damaged as collateral, then perhaps it may be a good opportunity to create a Gen3RU beneath UU and above NU to give the outclassed another chance to shine.
 
I just finished with UUPL & ADVPL so I have a lot to a talk about, This post will mostly be about my metagame thoughts and any sets I think are cool.

:Kangaskhan: Most players are starting to stray away from offensive Kangaskhan to defensive wish Kangaskhan.
Wish Kangaskhan is the best set in the metagame rn due to how good it can keep all of her teammates alive, pokemon such as Granbull, Ampharos, Walrein and Tentacruel all greatly appreciate wish support making them very hard to KO.

:Aggron: Speaking of wish Kangaskhan rising in popularity, Aggron heavily benefits from this trend.
Aggron can practically permanently wall wish Kangaskhan which can make Aggron the biggest threat on the battlefield.
Not only it can wall wish Kangskhan it can also perma wall sludge bomb only Vileplume and CB Scyther which is fantastic.
Despite these great upsides, Aggron can also be the biggest match up fish in the tier, if the opponent decides to run EQ on Kanga, Aggron can render itself useless.
With that said, Aggron is a high risk, high reward pokemon that is mostly suited for tournament play.
https://pokepast.es/22615cf491ddf1d4

:Granbull: Granbull is absolutely fantastic rn and has a huge usage rise in UUPL & ADVPL.
Granbull's best set rn has to the bulk up rest set, not only this allows Granbull to be one the best Kanga counters but this set also allows Granbull to be a phenomenal wallbreaker.
If you pair Granbull up with wish Kanga and heal bell Ampharos, they will absolutely help enable Granbull to become the scariest mon on the battlefield.
https://pokepast.es/fff32d09b880cb91

:Glalie: Glalie has a huge rise in popularity ever since it became a popular lead in UU Snake, people are starting to prefer Glalie over Qwilfish on HO teams thanks to the better defensive typing Glalie offers of not being weak to ground and electric attacks.
Not only its a great lead but you can use it as a secondary lead for HO teams thanks to the rise in lead Pinsir and offensive Kangaskhan.

:Pinsir: Speaking of Pinsir, its one of the best leads you can use on a HO team.
it has no bad lead match up outside of Magmar and Ninetales which both of these pokemon are currently rare as a lead.
Pinsir's job as a lead is to do much damage as it can without losing any momentum, as previously mentioned it also allows Glalie to come in midgame rather than at the start as people are now starting to prepare for lead Glalie more often.
https://pokepast.es/587c91f056f7004f

:Sandslash: Sandslash is starting to appear on HO teams more often thanks to it's ability to switch into electrics types better and being a better alternative to Gligar on HO teams.
Not only its a better electric check but its is a lot stronger than Gligar too.
+2 252 Atk Sandslash Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Omastar: 338-398 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Gligar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Omastar: 280-330 (81.3 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
However Sandslash does have to be wary of the Petaya Electric sets so having a back up electric check or two is needed.

:Slowking: :Golduck: :Gorebyss: :Omastar: :Feraligatr:
Offensive set up waters are rising in popularity thanks to their ability to set up on Omastar, Gligar and Tentacreul depending on the pokemon.
Slowking is a great bulky cm user as its very hard to KO Slowking if unprepared, People are forced to run either CB Scyther, an electric, offensive Kanga, a back up explosion user or use a HO team just to deal with the monster that is Slowking
Golduck is a fast less bulky Slowking which has the ability to stop weather HOs which is a great niche to have.
Gorebyss & Omastar are significant rain dance cleaners, if unprepared both Gorebyss and Omastar can 6-0 teams with ease.
Finally Feraligatr gets a special mention as it is a great mixed sword dance user. Feraligatr has the ability to 2HKO defensive Kanga and having Hydro Pump allows Feraligatr to cover Gligar and Solrock.

:Vileplume: Vileplume is now starting to run Stun Spore as it allows Vileplume to slow down Scyther, Tentacruel & Gligar nicely not only for itself but for the whole team, mons such Granbull and Walrein greatly benefit that this trend is on the upward rise.

:Camerupt: Finally Camerupt is an underrated threat in the current metagame.
Camerupt currently shuts down every electric type in the tier and not only that but access to Fire Blast/EQ/Boom/Rest which is a nice combination to have.
I think its mandatory that Camerupt has a cleric and a wish passer to make it work.
https://pokepast.es/52e170877125efb8

I am excited to share that me and a lot of the ADV UU lads are working on a sample teams thread and a viability ranking thread.
Its about time that we finally get an updated VR + Sample team thread.
 

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