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UUBL ADV UUBL

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My thoughts on this tier are that it is fun and with a few tiering changes could be one of the better old gen lower tiers. Everything in this list is roughly ordered until B rank.

My opinions on some Pokemon that maybe need tiering action: I think the tier has to many Pokemon that require multiple checks on one team and in its current state it can be very difficult to answer them all adequately in the teambuilder. In an ideal world I think one of the following Pokemon should go.

Raikou- I don’t have a problem with Raikou personally I think it has enough checks in the tier and while it is centralising it is not overbearing. However if you don’t have the right checks or you get unlucky you can quickly get overwhelmed, this to me is just the nature of Pokemon though.

Medicham- this is probably going to be an unpopular opinion but I think Medicham is unhealthy for the tier. Unlike raikou it is extremely good at overwhelming its own checks by itself with its coverage and I think the only thing keeping it somewhat ok is from faster offensive Pokemon however due to its good bulk and typing not many of them threaten to ohko it and it can ohko most of them in return. Because of this I think its presence in the tier is unhealthy.
 
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UUBL_May2025.png


Might be some hot takes in here? Roughly ordered. I'll say I personally don't think Raikou is necessarily ban worthy, definitely annoying at times because of the risk of a bad paralysis or crit turn, but not that bad. I think after reading Dastardly's post and some reflection, I could see a Medi ban? Mixed Medi is definitely underutilized when it just demolishes the otherwise best physical wall in the tier in Weezing. Very strong mon.

Re: potential bans, I think Belly Drum is not healthy for the tier. It gives Smeargle two very dangerous sets in BD + BP vs a BD sweeper/Boom set that forces an obnoxious 50/50 where you can lose the game on the spot via BP or play a risky game vs the sweeper/Boom set and potentially lose your phazer (on top of spore shenanigans) opening you up to losing to another set-up sweeper. Belly Drum makes some bad mons like Linoone a very real threat in the end game especially with Gard screens + safeguard + memento support and maybe a pursuiter. While rarer, it can also be a notable threat on Yama and Marowak.

Personally, I don't love BP chains being open especially with Mime existing, but I'm much more concerned with BD atm.

Some explanations on tiering: Spikers are good mostly bc of spikes, but Oma + Qwil add more meaningful utility (former being an okay Nite check and Qwil can T Wave somethings + Boom/DBond).

Ursaring is dumb, but I'm willing to admit that's probably bc of my bias in preferred playstyle. 130 attack is wild though with Guts and multiple viable sets.

Espeon is strong as a CM passer who can threaten a scary Psychic against most phazers.

Rose is an interesting spiker bc of Rest + Nat Cure, but also sadly frail and slow. Can sometimes work, but I feel like it's inconsistent.
 
:rs/regice: :rs/registeel: :rs/regirock:
Lead Metagame: Standard Lead Options and Interactions

UUBL had a great showing with its very active ladder paired with two separate money tours running alongside another. The many Pokemon available in the ban list allow for a lot of flexibility and team styles in the builder. One exciting aspect of the builder is deciding what Pokemon to choose as your lead.

Picking your lead in any ADV tier is of utmost importance due to the fact that the first Pokemon selected in the team builder is always lead alongside there being no team preview. So how do you go about choosing your lead in such a busy tier list? The answer to this will depend a lot on the needs of your team, but a handful of Pokemon stand notably above the rest.


  1. :rs/raikou: Raikou matches up well against many of the other leads we will be mentioning today. Its bulk, speed, and special attack are enough to bully most other common leads. Raikou is bulky enough to take most hits, and hits hard enough to OHKO the common Spike leads within the tier outside of Glalie. Omastar, Qwilfish, and Smeargle all suffer from facing an OHKO, or allowing Raikou to get behind a Substitute. More often than not, a special wall like Chansey, Regice, or Registeel will be forced out to preserve these spongy leads. These factors make for a very reliable lead in Raikou when paired with Pokemon that can take hits or statuses that Kou would like to avoid.
  2. :rs/medicham: Medicham with a Choice Band, Baton Pass, and a decent Speed Tier to boot, give this Pokemon the traits that make up a terrifying offensive lead. Medicham boasts over 600 attack when running Choice Band which allows it to inflict a lot of damage from lead. It can even survive a Thunderbolt from Raikou and OHKO back with Brick Break. Focus Punch and Baton Pass can both punish predicted switches and give your team momentum.
  3. :rs/qwilfish: Qwilfish is the first utility Pokemon on this list thanks to its access to Spikes, Thunder Wave, Destiny Bond, and Explosion. Despite poor bulk, being a Water + Poison Pokemon provide Qwil great defensive typing against the other lead Spikers in Glalie, Omastar, and Smeargle. Its superior Speed compared to these three give Qwilfish the ability to bully the other Spikers. Explosions usefulness too can’t be overstated when it comes to breaking through walls like Chansey, Regice, or opposing Rapid Spinner like Tentacruel.
  4. :rs/hariyama:Hariyama may not be the most exciting pick, but this Pokemon is very consistent and reliable in the lead slot. Though the second Fighting-type on our list, Hariyama functions much differently thanks to its unique ability and access to Knock Off + Whirlwind. Turn 1 Knock Off is often a free click that can disrupt your opponent quickly. Hariyama has the bulk to survive any hit from even the strongest Choice Banded attacks from Medicham and attack back or even remove its item with Knock Off. It’s ability Guts also allow Hariyama to function as a reliable status switch in.
  5. :rs/omastar: Though UU, Omastar is another strong Spike setter on the list. For what Omastar lacks in utility moves like Qwilfish, it makes up for with its better bulk and offense. Spikes up can be the difference between a smooth victory or a tough battle ahead. Omastar’s job isn’t done once it gets a Spike up however. It also serves as a great Normal-resist and as a potential wincon through Rain Dance + Swift Swim. However, just like Qwilfish Omastar does not want to see Raikou in the lead slot.
  6. :rs/espeon: Espeon is the fastest and most reliable Calm Mind passer in the tier. On Special Offense teams, it can quickly start snowballing and become a hard threat to take down. Espeon’s speed is another great advantage that help the cat take advantage of Baton Pass as much as possible. It’s also nothing to scoff at offensively especially in the lead slot where Medicham and Qwilfish are so common.
  7. :rs/smeargle: We couldn’t have a lead discussion without mentioning the beagle. What is there to say? Smeargle wants to claim free turns through Spore and lay down Spikes or pass stats often in the form of a Belly Drum, Dragon Dance, or Tail Glow. But you really never know what moves Smeargle is running for certain which is what makes it such a powerful lead. However, it’s tragic flaws are being a bit too frail and despite decent Speed, it is outsped by leads that can OHKO it or take advantage of its common lack of attacking moves.
  8. :rs/tauros: Tauros plays similarly to Medicham but in the lead slot, but actually gets some added benefits with its access to immediately threatening and powerful STAB in Double Edge, alongside being in a much better Speed tier. Despite its great strengths, it is usually better used in a position where it can clean up towards end game, or help break through specific targets. Well built defensive teams can force Tauros to have to make risky predicts between Double Edge and Earthquake. Once you add Protect, and a levitating Ghost to the mix, Tauros struggles even harder.
  9. :rs/glalie: Glalie is maybe the most controversial pick. It isn’t a UUBL, not even UU. No it is NU, but that said, this Pokemon transcends tiers, even seeing time in OU. It does many things great. Glalie can outspeed and taunt most other Spikers other than Qwilfish. It speed-ties Dragonite and can OHKO with Ice Beam. It can set up its own Hazards, run Hidden Power Grass for Omastar, run Explosion as a catch all, or for offensive momentum. With decent Speed and bulk, Glalie will rarely fail to make at least some impact as a lead.

ADVBL offers some really fun and unique interactions in the lead slot that all start in the team builder. With a strong team to support them, any of these 9 leads can make progress towards winning in battle. While I only mentioned these nine, there are many other solid options that could go in the lead slot. Some honorable mentions include Donphan, Dragonite, Houndoom, Jynx, Lanturn, and Venusaur. Often these more niche options can be more effective and give you an edge on surprise factor alone. The nine listed above are all leads I believe are standard and could easily be understood and used by most new players. Hope this sparks some interesting conversation on what less standards leads others like to use.
 
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:rs/regice: :rs/registeel: :rs/regirock:
Lead Metagame: Standard Lead Options and Interactions

UUBL had a great showing with its very active ladder paired with two separate money tours running alongside another. The many Pokemon available in the ban list allow for a lot of flexibility and team styles in the builder. One exciting aspect of the builder is deciding what Pokemon to choose as your lead.

Picking your lead in any ADV tier is of utmost importance due to the fact that the first Pokemon selected in the team builder is always lead alongside there being no team preview. So how do you go about choosing your lead in such a busy tier list? The answer to this will depend a lot on the needs of your team, but a handful of Pokemon stand notably above the rest.


  1. :rs/raikou: Raikou matches up well against many of the other leads we will be mentioning today. Its bulk, speed, and special attack are enough to bully most other common leads. Raikou is bulky enough to take most hits, and hits hard enough to OHKO the common Spike leads within the tier outside of Glalie. Omastar, Qwilfish, and Smeargle all suffer from facing an OHKO, or allowing Raikou to get behind a Substitute. More often than not, a special wall like Chansey, Regice, or Registeel will be forced out to preserve these spongy leads. These factors make for a very reliable lead in Raikou when paired with Pokemon that can take hits or statuses that Kou would like to avoid.
  2. :rs/medicham: Medicham with a Choice Band, Baton Pass, and a decent Speed Tier to boot, give this Pokemon the traits that make up a terrifying offensive lead. Medicham boasts over 600 attack when running Choice Band which allows it to inflict a lot of damage from lead. It can even survive a Thunderbolt from Raikou and OHKO back with Brick Break. Focus Punch and Baton Pass can both punish predicted switches and give your team momentum.
  3. :rs/qwilfish: Qwilfish is the first utility Pokemon on this list thanks to its access to Spikes, Thunder Wave, Destiny Bond, and Explosion. Despite poor bulk, being a Water + Poison Pokemon provide Qwil great defensive typing against the other lead Spikers in Glalie, Omastar, and Smeargle. Its superior Speed compared to these three give Qwilfish the ability to bully the other Spikers. Explosions usefulness too can’t be overstated when it comes to breaking through walls like Chansey, Regice, or opposing Rapid Spinner like Tentacruel.
  4. :rs/hariyama:Hariyama may not be the most exciting pick, but this Pokemon is very consistent and reliable in the lead slot. Though the second Fighting-type on our list, Hariyama functions much differently thanks to its unique ability and access to Knock Off + Whirlwind. Turn 1 Knock Off is often a free click that can disrupt your opponent quickly. Hariyama has the bulk to survive any hit from even the strongest Choice Banded attacks from Medicham and attack back or even remove its item with Knock Off. It’s ability Guts also allow Hariyama to function as a reliable status switch in.
  5. :rs/omastar: Though UU, Omastar is another strong Spike setter on the list. For what Omastar lacks in utility moves like Qwilfish, it makes up for with its better bulk and offense. Spikes up can be the difference between a smooth victory or a tough battle ahead. Omastar’s job isn’t done once it gets a Spike up however. It also serves as a great Normal-resist and as a potential wincon through Rain Dance + Swift Swim. However, just like Qwilfish Omastar does not want to see Raikou in the lead slot.
  6. :rs/espeon: Espeon is the fastest and most reliable Calm Mind passer in the tier. On Special Offense teams, it can quickly start snowballing and become a hard threat to take down. Espeon’s speed is another great advantage that help the cat take advantage of Baton Pass as much as possible. It’s also nothing to scoff at offensively especially in the lead slot where Medicham and Qwilfish are so common.
  7. :rs/smeargle: We couldn’t have a lead discussion without mentioning the beagle. What is there to say? Smeargle wants to claim free turns through Spore and lay down Spikes or pass stats often in the form of a Belly Drum, Dragon Dance, or Tail Glow. But you really never know what moves Smeargle is running for certain which is what makes it such a powerful lead. However, it’s tragic flaws are being a bit too frail and despite decent Speed, it is outsped by leads that can OHKO it or take advantage of its common lack of attacking moves.
  8. :rs/tauros: Tauros plays similarly to Medicham but in the lead slot, but actually gets some added benefits with its access to immediately threatening and powerful STAB in Double Edge, alongside being in a much better Speed tier. Despite its great strengths, it is usually better used in a position where it can clean up towards end game, or help break through specific targets. Well built defensive teams can force Tauros to have to make risky predicts between Double Edge and Earthquake. Once you add Protect, and a levitating Ghost to the mix, Tauros struggles even harder.
  9. :rs/glalie: Glalie is maybe the most controversial pick. It isn’t a UUBL, not even UU. No it is NU, but that said, this Pokemon transcends tiers, even seeing time in OU. It does many things great. Glalie can outspeed and taunt most other Spikers other than Qwilfish. It speed-ties Dragonite and can OHKO with Ice Beam. It can set up its own Hazards, run Hidden Power Grass for Omastar, run Explosion as a catch all, or for offensive momentum. With decent Speed and bulk, Glalie will rarely fail to make at least some impact as a lead.

ADVBL offers some really fun and unique interactions in the lead slot that all start in the team builder. With a strong team to support them, any of these 9 leads can make progress towards winning in battle. While I only mentioned these nine, there are many other solid options that could go in the lead slot. Some honorable mentions include Donphan, Dragonite, Houndoom, Jynx and Lanturn. Often these more niche options can be more effective and give you an edge on surprise factor alone. The nine listed above are all leads I believe are standard and could easily be understood and used by most new players. Hope this sparks some interesting conversation on what less standards leads others like to use.

Donphan truethers where you at?

Qwilfish who? Catch this earthquake fool
 
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Here’s my first attempt at a UUBL tier list! God, this tier has so many fuckin mons to choose from. I really can’t say I’ve used most of these, and as such have to speculate based on my experience playing against them and watching replays from the recent discord tour. Honestly I didn’t build most of my teams for the tour, relying heavily on Melninja for support and input, so my VR will definitely be colored by the teams he built and what we built together.

I stopped ordering pokemon within tiers at around the end of B rank, I think at that point the placements are so close that I can’t make a definitive claim on what’s better or worse within a few spots.

:rs/raikou:

Raikou: At first when I started using the tiger during the ladder tour, I was a bit whelmed by sub cm. Everyone has to overprep for it so it was hard to consistently break with. What really unlocked the S tier potential for this mon was when I started messing around with other moves. Cm+roar is an absolute menace with spikes that makes very safe progress. Status raikou with toxic or twave has become my new favorite, with incredible flexibility for its 4th move. Raikou is a great fit on bulky teams that need some strong speed control to revenge mid speed breakers like houndoom, medicham, and need another option vs opposing raikou. With the right move, raikou can help check itself which is a bit of defensive utility that makes it very easy to fit on teams.

:rs/dragonite:

Dragonite: Can very reasonably be argued as #1, it’s a bit more splashable than raikou because of its better resistances to fighting, ground, and fire. It’s 4x ice weakness can cause it to get sniped at times, most of the time by itself running ice beam, but even then it can live some of these hits when ev’d properly. Heal bell is amazing utility that is probably the #2 reason it finds itself on over 3/4 of all teams. It’s not a particularly great solo heal bell user on bulkier teams imo, but it still enables a lot of builds. I think I ended up liking dnite more when, similarly to raikou, I didn’t try to shove dd, heal bell, or both on every team.

:rs/registeel:
Registeel: Mr. Steel clocking in for another a+ vr ranking in yet another tier, what’s new. Best steel type in the tier, and as such an amazing glue for bulky or more offensive teams.m depending on your set. I think you usually end up taking the Rest or Boom route with regi depending on the type of team you’re using, and curse sets appreciating either move. Mel put me onto amnesia registeel recently, which is actually super good even beyond being safer into raikou. Once I saw it 1v1 a houndoom at less than full, I knew regi was the goat. I don’t have it in S rank because I think it doesn’t mold the meta as much as the top 2, but it’s very close.

:rs/slowbro:
Slowbro: Not only does this mon check some absolutely game ending breakers, but it’s also maybe the best setup in the entire tier. It’s super easy to start trading with Bro once it hits +1, allowing it to eat a hit and ohko houndoom or start chipping down regice before switching out to finish the job later. Rest or twave are both great complimentary last moves, again sort of depending on your team’s game plan. If you want the paralysis support, there really isn’t anything that denies slowbro from doing so besides chansey. Slowbro is #4 because it’s typing is so so important to glue together a lot of teams that stack multiple ground and fighting weaks, giving the team playable matchups into rhydon and Marowak.

:rs/weezing:
Weezing: I think of its typing as pretty similar to Slowbro, and therefore it provides similar glue to teams. Ground immunity, a fighting resist, and no weakness to any physical attacking type. Weezing with only wisp and sludge bomb is somewhat abusable, namely by substitute grounds, Heal bell Dnite, and Omastar, but these can both be alleviated with the right hidden power as coverage. Weezing, like slowbro, is the lynchpin of so many defensive teams because of its ability to blanket check so many physical attackers. It's also spikes immune meaning it's easy to fit on teams that don't pack rapid spin and remains healthy even vs spikes teams with spinblockers. Removing Weezing is no small task for even a pursuit user like houndoom, who is 2hko'd by sludge bomb.

Boom is likely a bit underexplored on offensive teams, as it allows Weezing to drop pain split and pivot to being an offensive force and momentum grabber.

:rs/omastar:
Omastar: Spiker with a good defensive and offensive profile. Omastar is the first UU mon on this list because it plays well into the metagame right now, spiking on Dnite, Weezing, Registeel, , Steelix, and Chansey. That's me only pulling from the S and A rank mons on my list btw. Omastar has many more entry points beyond these meta staples. It's typing can be abused by hidden power, but that slot is often occupied by HP Ice for pokemon like Entei and Houndoom. Maybe it can be abused more and thus will end up lower as time goes on, or maybe it will creep higher as people start to rely more on spikes. It's speed tier is good enough to outpace base 50s, which can help pop up another spike vs Regice and Chansey.

:rs/Medicham:
Medicham: Great lead, CB provides crucial priority, and is strong enough that it can be the sole breaker on more defensive teams. Also a great engine for starting offense as it can scout switches with baton pass or substitute to ease prediction. I have personally used more cb because I think the immediate threat is so good and I love having even mediocre priority, but lum berry, leftovers, or pinch berries work in different roles.

:rs/Chansey:
Chansey: Honestly with no permenant sand + the lower power level of UUBL, chansey feels like it has OU Blissey's bulk. Less set variety of course since it can't use any special attacks besides maybe Ice beam viably, but even the status+seismic toss sets can provide enough threat to force pokemon out. I feel like its a lot easier to fit Aromatherapy in UUBL than on Blissey in OU because Chansey doesn't have to worry about being dug trapped. She's one of my favorite blobs to use in any tier I've played. Can be abused by pokemon with 101 sub like Rhydon and Entei, or setup sweepers like Scizor and dnite who don't mind status as much.

:rs/Houndoom:
Houndoom: Very strong breaker with good speed tier vs a lot of common wall breakers. It's by far the best user of pursuit and has tools to threaten all the physical walls in the tier. If you thought Blissey hated beat up, I shouldn't have to explain why Chansey is terrified of it. Doom also has a very consistent dual stab in Crunch with great coverage compared to other fires, so it doesn't have to rely on hidden power to hit its targets and can afford to fit the aforementioned beat up with pursuit. It also slams the other two fat special walls with its fire STAB. Will-o-wisp also gives houndoom an offensive and defensive weapon if the team doesn't particularly care about Chansey. Enables defensive teams that rely on spin or bulky offense teams that want to trap Weezing.

:rs/vaporeon:
Vaporeon: Pretty sure Vap used to be in the top 3 on the VR, and for good reason. The stats are just massive, offensively and defensively, and its mono-water typing makes it pretty hard to exploit. Just a classic bulky water that provides different utility compared to Omastar or Blastoise. Wish is pretty hard to come by so that's great, but one of my favorite uses for Vap is passing 101 substitutes like it can in OU, except this time I'm not even sure if Chansey could break a sub with tbolt even if it wanted to. Toxic, roar, haze, and ice beam can all be important depending on the team its used with. Poor Raikou matchup but its not like, instantly exploding to tbolt like most waters so it gets a bit of a pass. Amazing but sometimes you want a different water's utility, though it can definitely fit on teams with 2 of them.

:rs/Regice:
Regice: Special wall that's very hard to switch into without Chansey, twave with Ice beam is just not blockable otherwise. I might be lower on it than other but I think the toxic and spikes weaknesses are definitely notable. It's also weak to fire which means you probably need a backup vs them. Not a ridiculous ask but you can't just start throwing Regice on a team without considering it. I personally don't use the psych up sets and just try to build around raikou differently, but sometimes you just gotta do it. Clicking STAB ice beam is a top 5 feeling in mons so I will always like this guy.

:Rs/blastoise:
Blastoise: I orginally had toise even higher, but I do think that was a bitttt much. Not that much though, for the same reasons Vaporeon's mono water typing is good, it works about the same for turtle. Good stats means its able to take 1 hit from basically everythingand do something back, even if thats just removing spikes for its teammates. Very strapped for move slots but all of its options are good. Spins on omastar pretty easily just like in UU, and instead of Kanga it's letting in Chansey, which is a lot more manageable. Toxic, ice beam, refresh, earthquake, roar are all good choices. The speed tier is better than Vaporeon, which means toise is a better check to the strong ground types named Marowak and Rhydon compared to Vap and Slowbro.

:rs/steelix:
Steelix: Steel type that checks raikou with its typing rather than raw bulk. I'm debating moving Steelix down, because in a lot of ways it's a worse Registeel. its slower and way weaker to waters, or just special attackers in general. On the plus side, STAB eq is good for getting meaningful damage on switch ins like Omastar, and the physical bulk does let Lix check physical attackers better, so it does have a niche. Lix trades curse for roar, so it can phase threatening setup sweepers like scizor or dnite before they get out of hand.

:rs/qwilfish:
Qwilfish: Fastest spiker and has twave to threaten out different targets than Omastar, Qwil is great on offense and the speed makes it a solid lead. Has to be careful of lead EQs targeted at Raikou, though. Boom also gives it something to do basically every turn it gets to move. Maybe it should be lower, but I don't think viable spikers should really go below A tier.

:rs/glalie:
Glalie is back for a 4th appearence in an adv lower tier VR, because this fat fuck won't leave any of us alone. Yes, its typing gives it something unique over Qwil and Omastar, letting it stay in on raikou, and has eq to break its sub. Ice ground coverage is also pretty good vs Tentacruel and Donphan, while being faster than blastoise and Hitmontop to let boom rip whenever it needs to deny spin. Max HP Glalie can also take 1 boosted move and KO Dnite with Ice beam, letting it save boom for a slower target after.

Keeping it short for some of my favorite B ranks:

:rs/scizor:
Sd Morning Sun Steel Wing HP Ground is such a good bulky wincon, have been destroyed by it many times.

:rs/entei:
101 subs, Fire type that beats Chansey with good speed and bulk.

:rs/Rhydon:
101 subs, Edgequake with SD (or roar) kills everything and abuses Weezing without HP ice/grass.

:rs/Miltank:
Curse/Heal Bell/Milk Drink/Body Slam. less passive Chansey with better physical bulk and speed. Thick fat is great in this tier.
 
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Mel's UUBL May 2025 VR.png


Now that the UUBL tours have ended, I think it's time for me to share my thoughts on the VR. Tho I didn't win anything, I'm very happy with what I built for THE_CHUNGLER & how I could help them in their run. They played incredibly well & my teams were just a mean to showcase it.

Anyway :

raikou.png


Raikou is the best mon in the tier, no debate, I hate it in this tier, pls ban it,...
More seriously, this mon is truly broken. There is no true counter to Raikou & you can be sure it will be troublesome to your team. Tho I find it a bit easier to handle the more I play, but it's also cause I play 1 or 2 "hard" kou check in every team (cause you're forced to), but yeah this kinda sucks that it forces team slots so hard.
Kou's strongest sets truly are the ones that are not Tbolt/Sub/CM/Random HP, the strongest truly are Roar & Toxic variant that can take advantage of how bad Spinners are in this tier or that can force Chansey to not use Toss, which means almost guaranteed crit (which means free W). Also if you win the roar roll on oppo Kou you win the game.
EDIT : Roar is the best Kou coverage, because if you face Kou wall, you can roar it out. Then you have 80% to 100% chance to have smth that doesn't check you (depending on the team). Which means you either get a kill or force out the Kou check, either damaging it on the switch or boosting. You make progress anyway, & you'll never get roared out cause you're faster than everything. They can try to switch out so they can get the better odds to get their check in, but it's giving a 50/50 to Raikou (don't do that) & you lose momentum for nothing + spikes probably up + ff you face Kou, just bring Chansey + Steelix/Registeel.
It's not as versatile as Dnite in the builder, but it's way stronger than anything else in the tier with only 4ish different 4th move variants. (also easy to build around)

dragonite.png

Everybody loves Dnite. Easy to build around, fun to build & tweak to your likings, good af & most importantly not so hard to check (4x weak to ice), which makes it way healthier than the dog above.
Of course DDnite is very strong & can easily get out of hands if you don't do anything quickly. Flying + Ground coverage is insane & it's also helped a lot by the access to Ice Beam just to be sure Donphan can never be a Dnite check (and top tier).
Dnite also gets access to cool secondary coverage in case you don't want to run Ddance & prefer more balanced set like me. Fpunch is incredible into Regice, Oma & other stuff & Thunder is also very good to hit bulky waters that loves coming in.
The mon also gets utility like Heal Bell, Twave, Toxic, Roar, Haze,... if you need. Heal bell comes in the more often & it's rly good if you wanna run Wish Chansey for example.
Anyway love that guy, my Anti Dnite Dnite is my fav set.

registeel.png

Registeel versatility & incredible defensive potential is what makes it so good. You can lead with it, with things like twave, boom, counter, eq,...
You can curse sweep (tho it is not so good now). You can run some madman defensive set with Amnesia to be able to win vs Kou & Zam. Some good Rest heal can fit very well with heal Bell support. You can do what you want with it, tho its strength mostly comes from how it can check Kou thx to Toss/Eq. Love it.

medicham.png
Medi does too much dmg, only true check is weezing. Para flinch it & you win. Thankfully Dnite is in most teams to tank a hit or two & OHKO it.
This is my fav lead in this tier, good enough speed to OHKO most spikers & Fake Out can chip things or disable Slaking, while checking for lefties T1. Access to Sball makes it able to ruin Slowbro's life once it clicks rest.
TLDR dmg too big, can't check it indefinitely.

weezing.png

This is the mon who makes so many things thrash (hello crobat). Wisp / haze makes it a very good Curse/slow SD disabler. Typing & stats helps to check most physical threats (mostly Fighting types). You can custom it with Hp Ice if you need help vs Dnite or if you fear Sub Rhydon.
Just extremely solid.

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I'm the biggest Chansey spammer. Heal bell is very good. Also it's just the most consistent Kou check, until you get crit'd (at least 1/2games). Also checks so much things. Twave is incredible, you can run Toxic if you hate Donphan & Rhydon. If regice doesn't run boom, it's free. Heal Bell is ultra strong, you can also run Wish instead if you have another Heal Bell & need to give some support to Blastoise or smth.

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Love that bro. CM rest. This is good cause it checks Weezing & other bulky waters. Also you don't get OHKO'd by anything. Only problems are free Kou entry points, Chansey & Psych Up Regice. You can run Twave instead of Surf if you want to para spam, Fpunch can help vs Chansey/Regice Switch ins, but it's not that good.
Just play CM Bro everywhere, it's fun & good, I promise.

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Dnite Check, Dodrio/Tauros check, Best Spiker. Crit immune is cool. Cause of this thing my boy Tauros is not so good. Pairs perfectly with things like Weezing & Chansey.

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Kinda Kou check. Checks Dnites unless it's Fpunch (they should play it). Checks the water mons thx to Tbolt. You can rest for Status heal. Boom is cool. You can also play Psych Up if you hate Slowbro & Kou & wants to lose to chansey. I just prefer running Chansey/Registeel, but it's good.

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Thick fat is nice for Houndoom & Regice. Very cool lead thx to hp & movepool. Knock off is a free click that makes Weezing/Slowbro easier to handle. EQ for Kou. You can also get more utility with Whirlwhind, ResTalk, Counter,...
Play it on stall, on balanced, even on offense. It will always do smth. Tho I prefer Medicham as a fighting type cause unchecked, raw, faster dmg is often better.

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Bulky water that checks Dnite & Wish pass. Free Slowbro set up. Toxic forces rest on stuff tho.

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Very good Offensive spiker. Dbond can trade with Slowbro that's forced to come in. Boom can also trade with stuff. Twave is incredible support for a spiker lead, mostly on offense. Doesn't get OHKO'd by Medi, & it's faster, also poison point scare them from clicking Fake Out. You can also play CB.

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CM + Synchronize. You can Encore sometimes.

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Sub SD is so good lmao. Toss immuned, faster than most defensive mons, beats non Hp Ice Weezing. Gets some easy wins on some MU. Extremely good to switch into Chansey (unless they run Toxic)Also CB can be good.

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Steelix stocks are rising thx to 90% of HP on Kou being Ice. Nobody runs Water. OK Normal Check. Roar abuser. Forces out set up sweepers.

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Tentacruel is the best Spinner (which means how bad spinners are) It's the best cause it's not fucked vs popular Spikers. Non water weak Spiker is so important & having a Toxic immunity helps so much. Also Speed tier. It comes into Houdoom thx to great SpDef. Can get support moves like Toxic, Haze, Screens,...
Also you can try some SD sets.

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SD + Guts, easy switch in on defensive stuff & can do some cool sweeps thx to it's bulk. Sometimes it surprises Kou & Dnte & take some good kills with EQ/Return. Easy holes in teams, like coming into Toxic Chansey. Best Normal attacker.

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Blastoise. I think it's currently the 2nd best Spinner cause of things stated above for Tenta : It doesn't suck vs the 2 main Spikers.
Water resist is so important & it's also an actual soft Dnite check thx to Bulk & Ice beam.
Access to Refresh makes it easily viable vs defensive mons that rely too much on status. EQ being available is so good for Kou switch ins & to help threaten Qwil & Tenta who think they are free. You can also run Foresight shenanigans for funny spin on Ghosts.
Unfortunately it heavily relies on Wish support to work at it's full potential, but some teams can run it without, but needs to play very good/careful.

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Gonna End with Hitmontop, probably the strangest choice of the list, but I think it's coherent.Hitmontop Niche is sooooo good. It's a Spinner with intimidate & a PRIORITY MOVE. Priority moves are ultra rare in this tier. The most common one is Medi's Fake Out, but it's not so good cause it's always banded. STAB Mach Punch is very important, so you can apply pressure on around 1/4 hp fast threats. Also intim makes it a good lead. It puts you out of Kill Range from things like Medi, that you can kill instead with your CB Hp Ghost. Also you get the very important EQ, that will OHKO Kou lead.
Hitmontop is the role compression of your lead Fighting type with Spin, but that also wins a lot of very important lead MU for some reason.

That's it for now, I think the rest is pretty usual. If you need me to explain some specific postion of mons, or what's my opinion on some stuff, don't hesitate. I'll surely drop some of my fav teams here at some point. Some of them can prob be Sample candidate.
I love Entei, it's Healthy Kou that beats Toss.
 
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ADV UUBL has a lot of Pokemon, which has made making this list both really fun, and really tiring. That said I won't discuss anything beyond A to keep it brief. First off, what are my qualifications to even speak UUBL's VR? My tournament accolades are nonexistent but during my time with ladder, I managed to top 10/15 with multiple accounts, and even qualify for the ADV BL Ladder Tournament. I've built multiple sample teams for this tier and have helped others with their own team building and testing across a number of ADV tiers. And with that out of the way, it is no surprise which two Pokemon top the chart.

S+: :raikou::dragonite:

:rs/raikou: When this legendary enters the field you know exactly what it wants to do. And you will switch in your Special Wall Chansey or Regice thinking you have things under control. Then suddenly you notice your Raikou answers aren't so healthy anymore, three layers of Spikes are scattered across the floor, and Raikou just clicked Calm Mind on the switch and it's game over. Then remind yourself that this beast has a 90 / 75 / 100 split between it's defensive stats with 115 Speed making it far and away the bulkiest Pokemon in its speed tier.
:rs/dragonite: Despite being overshadowed by Salamence in OU, Dragonite is no slouch and could be argued over Raikou for the versatility it offers. Dragonite may be running a Dragon Dance Sweeper, a Cleric, a Mixed Attacker, a Substitute Focus Punch Mixed Attacking set, or even a Choice Band. In the right position, a single Dragon Dance can sometimes mean the game is won. Dragonite can fit nicely on many teams thanks to it's great stats and roles it can fill. This is a stark contrast from Raikou where the main decision is typically between Roar or Substitute.

S: :medicham::registeel::weezing::chansey:

:rs/medicham: Choice Band + Pure Power = Profit. This breaks through everything. It may struggle to deal with some well structured defensive cores with smart positioning, but this solution is temporary if Medi can either make the right click, or through support of it's team, be able to click whatever move it wants. Once the Ghost-type, or Fighter-resist are eliminated, the world opens up for Medicham. As good as Choice Band is, Medicham has the added benefit of being able to run a Salac Berry set, as well as a mixed set with Psychic to hit Weezing. Fake Out is another unique priority move in a tier where it is not very common amongst top threats.
:rs/registeel: Registeel is the defensive glue to many UUBL teams. For some, it is even the primary answer to Raikou in a tier that often demands more than one answer in the team builder. Registeel can get in the way of so many things that wish to cause progress and avoid status. Threats like Medicham desperately want to avoid a Thunder Wave as do the Fire-types that would also like to threaten Registeel. And if you fail to eliminate Registeel effectively, you better hope it doesn't have Rest to undo all of the progress you thought you made. As a result, Registeel can force your opponent to overthink and force their own misplays. With options like Curse + 2 Attacks, Restalk, Status + Seismic Toss, it always has a consistent way to make progress against much of the tier.
:rs/weezing: Weezing does so much as a defensive backbone in UUBL. With utility options like Pain Split, Will O' Wisp, and Haze, Weezing has an option for all types of opposing setup sweepers. More offensive sets can even run coverage moves to cover a variety of weaknesses. For example Hidden Power Ice to cover Dragonite, and Flamethrower to cover Scizor. Levitate to never have to worry about Spikes damage, and having great bulk and solid resists plus immunities make Weezing a very solid option on most teams.
:rs/chansey: While Chansey is a very simple Pokemon in terms of how it works, it doesn't need to be anything more. It can function as a Cleric through either Wish OR Heal Bell, that can spread Thunder Wave or Toxic status and hit most things for decent chip damage with Seismic Toss. More importantly than all of this, Chansey functions as one of the best defensive pivots in the tier by being able to take the brunt of special attacks and shed off status through Natural Cure.

A+: :regice::vaporeon::qwilfish::omastar::hariyama::Slowbro::tentacruel::dusclops:

The Pokemon in the A+ class have little to no drawback to using. All options listed possess excellent qualities both offensively and defensively that are expressed in battle consistently. Additionally, the Pokemon in this class can fit on many team styles without needing to cheat on certain matchups.

A: :Donphan::Blastoise::Miltank::Misdreavus::houndoom::alakazam::tauros::articuno::marowak::kingdra::scizor:

Class A is most aligned with my thoughts on Class A+, however with more restrictions. Pokemon in this class are less splashable, and may lead to unintended weaknesses in unexpected areas. For example, Kingdra might feel like dead weight against a team that is really well equipped to deal with rain. On top of that you're team was designed to support a Rain Dance sweeper in Kingdra. This dynamic leads to the Pokemon in this class being generally less consistent than those ranked above them.

To wrap it up, I think ADV UUBL is an incredible banlist tier but with the vast number of Pokemon, doing a ranking like this is extremely hard. I think to get a more accurate reading on the "pulse" of this meta, I would like to see an aggregate of the varying opinions of other players and finalizing this VR through some group of qualified voters. Hopefully with this, we can establish the most current VR possible before the start of ADVLTL I.
 
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Hello,

Thanks to the efforts of people like Teh and mason who granted us a ladder (which saw over 21 000 games played and a few more when it was still up in early April) and both forum and Discord tournaments, we had a massive surge in activity and interest in UUBL, as further shown by the recent wave of VR post in this thread! Thanks to everyone involved, and congratulations to the tournaments winners!

A couple more thanks to those who filled the survey shared in the above post. Here are the results:

On a scale from 1 to 5, how much do you enjoy the tier ?

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The overall reception of the tier currently is very positive, with the majority of voters labeling it as a fun metagame.

On a scale from 1 to 5, how "competitive" do you think the tier is ?

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While not as pronounced as the fun aspect, the majority of the playerbase also seems to think that the tier has decent competitive potential, which is pretty encouraging when it comes to the future of UUBL in tournaments.

Would you like to see ADV UUBL made into an official metagame in the future ? This could mean that the tier becomes frozen (can't lose or gain Pokemon to/from OU anymore, as well as losing Raikou, Regice, and Porygon2), featured in more official tournaments, but also that future rulesets would have to go through the usual Smogon bureaucracy (meaning, current ruleset an possibilities might have to change depending on what the tiering council enforces).

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This is a matter that is effectively being discussed in this policy review thread at the moment. This one is slightly more divisive as the looming loss of key Pokemon and perhaps clauses due to more strict policies compared to RBY tiering (unless that changes in the future) makes some players relunctant of fusing with UU (which is what becoming an official metagame having a spot in offical smogon team tournaments would entail). Nonetheless, the majority would still like to see UUBL establish itself as an official metagame, which presumably would translate to becoming the new ADV UU, minus a couple of Pokemon and once again some clauses, assuming ADV UU ruleset remains unchanged post the hypothetical nuclear UUBL drop.

Is there any Pokemon you think is unhealthy or banworthy in the current metagame ?

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Some players have voiced some complains on strong Pokemon like Raikou and Medicham, be it on this thread or in Discord forums. However, neither are close to reaching a majority of pro-ban opinion at the moment, so any tiering action on them is unlikely to happen, but as the metagame develops and gets more tournament traction and, perhaps eventually, a form of suspect test (JoaF suggested running a tour, maybe room tours, to test a no Raikou meta for instance), maybe they'll get the boot one day. Another ban detailed in the "Other" category that has been suggested is the move Belly Drum, specifically on Smeargle (which can use it alongside Baton Pass) and Linoone, which could be worth discussing in the future if the sentiment grows over time. One person nominated Dragonite, and a couple of other thought Baton Pass was deserving of a ban. Speaking of which...

Do you think further action is needed or desirable on Baton Pass ? Reminder: the current one restricts all manners of Speed pass (except moves like Silver Wind and Ancient Power alongside Baton Pass), Trap Pass (Mean Look/Spider Web/Block + Baton Pass), Smeargle + Ingrain, and allows only one form of stat boosting across the whole team.

What would be the ideal Baton Pass set of clauses for ADV UUBL ?

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Lumping these two questions together as they tell the same tale: the wide majority of the playerbase is fine with the current ruleset, so once again, unless there's a different consensus or some sort of restrictions enforced because the metagame ends up becoming official forcing a compromise on the playerbase, the BP set of clauses is unlikely to change anytime soon. There is still some support for Dry Pass only, and a couple of players in the "Other" category who asked for a ban on Mr.Mime, on Silver Wind and Ancient Power alongside Baton Pass, and a single voice for applying OU ruleset instead (which notably frees up Speed pass).

What's your opinion on Reversal and Flail ban ?

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Again, no changes planned on the subject of Flail and Reversal seeing that the overwhelming majority wants to keep those moves banned.

What's your preferred manner to refer to the tier ? (Aside from ADV UU)

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As long as it remains unofficial, our tier will still go by the name of ADV UUBL.


Again, thanks to everyone who took part in the survey and left positive feedback on the tier. You can expect a Viability Ranking update with ADVLTL on the horizon and everyone who submitted their own ranking. On the subject, here's mine as of now (ordered within tier, less sure within the B ranks and below):

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Medicham has risen to OU and will therefore no longer be legal in UUBL matches! Rest in peace funny monkey, you broke walls to an extent that was at least a little broken (but you'll be missed regardless.)

I think this is an overall positive change for the metagame though. Mainly, I think Medicham leaving will make it easier to defensively answer Raikou since a lot of the mons that do well into it (Chansey, Regice/steel, Steelix, Lanturn) get absolutely nuked by Medicham. There are still plenty of Fighting-type wallbreakers too, they just happen to be weaker initially and have a less oppressive speed tier.

Quick buffs/nerfs:

Buffs
  • Dragonite appreciates having the 80 speed tier be less crowded and it makes not running max speed less dangerous.
  • Weezing was Medicham's best defensive answer but I'd still say it's better here since it does better into every other Fighting-type (bar Blaziken) and doesn't have to worry about being nuked by Mixedcham.
  • All other Fighting-types (Yama, Machamp, Blaziken) get better here since the most splashable Fighter is gone.
  • Venusaur can now run specially-defensive sets much more easily now.
  • I think Offense teams are just overall better now since Medicham was extremely strong into them, even if Medicham was also an Offense staple.
Nerfs
  • Stall teams probably take a hit here, since most Medicham sets were prone to getting chipped down and needed to get value ASAP against defensive teams. Yama with Knock Off and Machamp with Guts and Bulk Up fare much better against slower teams and have much more longevity.
  • Regice and Fire-types don't appreciate Yama with Thick Fat being more relevant.
  • Raikou probably takes a hit here as well since it should be easier to slot in defensive checks for Raikou without having to commit to a full stall or semi-stall team.
That's all from me! Make sure to join the ADV UUBL Discord for live discussions and practice games if you're interested in seeing how the meta will shake up with a top mon gone.
 
Hello UUBL!
With a new UUBL tournament on the horizon complete with a Raikou ban, I'd like to take a moment to discuss Raikou in ADV UUBL; What it does, why people are frustrated with it, and evidence regarding how much it fits in.

Raikou's Presence in UUBL​

Raikou is currently ranked #2 in the UUBL VR, only outranked by Dragonite. According to the ladder stats from March, Raikou had roughly 40% usage (6% lower than Dragonite, at number 1, and almost 14.5% higher than Registeel at number 3!). What about Raikou makes it shine?
A look at Raikou's base stats already tells a story; At 115 base speed, Raikou outspeeds a vast majority of the format naturally. 115 special attack makes for a strong attacker on the rip that can break many walls. As well, being an electric type is particular fortuitous in UUBL; a lot of top pokemon are weak to electric. Raikou is particularly good into Vaporeon and Slowbro, and with your choice of hidden power you can also hit anything from Dragonite, Venusaur, Lanturn, and others. Notably, Omastar and Qwilfish are weak to electric which makes Raikou weirdly good at denying spikes.

However, Raikou's ace in the hole is Calm Mind. Once again, March's ladder stats show Raikou running Calm Mind 93% of the time. Why does Raikou run Calm Mind so much? Because with enough boosts, Raikou can leverage its natural stats to easily overcome just about any check or pokemon in general. Mons that check Raikou at +0 (Steelix, Donphan, Lanturn) eventually stop being checks at +2, +3, so on. Put another way, at +3 Raikou has no checks. This completely changes Raikou's dynamic in UUBL. You absolutely have to stop it immediately before it gets enough boosts. Raikou is incredibly good on spikes because it doesn't force switches, it demands them. But Raikou as previously mentioned also scares out most spikers. Raikou's access to Roar can also stop various boost sweepers and rack up spikes chip. All things considered, Raikou has a way of finding itself onto just about any team considering its skillset and it will work.

Raikou, by its presence, does tend to help offense more than slower teams. Bulky waters have to walk on shells around it, and spikes get a lot better with it forcing switches. Raikou is so good as a catch-all electric that the only other electric type that even sniffs viability in UUBL is Lanturn, who functions as a Raikou check anyhow.

Why is Raikou Controversial?​

Unlike Alakazam, which also holds a similar niche of a boost sweeper that eventually has no checks with enough boosts, Raikou is bulky. Alakazam dies to a swift breeze, but Raikou can survive a decent hit or two. Those 90/75/100 base defenses aren't just for show. Combined with Raikou being slottable on any team and you run into a situation where Raikou needs to be answered in the teambuilder, which becomes a problem after a little bit of investigation.

Raikou is capable of choosing which check it doesn't wish to engage with via its hidden power choice; HP Ice beats Venusaur and Donphan, HP Grass beats Lanturn, while HP Fire beats Steelix (and Registeel depending on the boosts Edit: HP Fire is worse than Tbolt against Registeel, but it is good for Venusaur). As well, although Raikou loses a lot of its steam when statused, Raikou can run substitute to completely invalidate that. Considering that a boosted Raikou can invalidate one of its checks just with HP type, and Raikou can crit to be bailed out of a bad matchup, It's become standard practice for teambuilders to run two hard Raikou checks per team. This is where the crux of the anti-Raikou sentiment really shows its head. Teambuilders and players don't want to be restricted by Raikou's presence.

Should Action be Taken Against Raikou?​

As a teambuilder, I am biased here in that I find Raikou quite annoying to prep for. Nevertheless, there are very real reasons to want Raikou to stay in UUBL. In June's poll on the tier, 75% of respondants said Raikou was not unhealthy or banworthy. However, in the time since minds are slowly shifting on the topic (mine included). People in the UUBL discord server (especially given the influx of new people and activity) are shifting more anti-Raikou with time. Yet, there are still voices that wish to keep Raikou. Often, it's arguments against enabling bulky waters and stall, especially since bulky waters have great options for shrugging off counterplay. There's a legitimate reason to think that stall or slower teams would become hard or even impossible to answer properly without Raikou threatening them. UUBL already tends towards a slower playstyle and this might push the tier to fully being stall focused.

The UUBL discord server decided to answer this question by running a tournament of our own with Raikou banned. It only had 23 games total, but it shed some light on what the meta might look like. You can find the usage stats, replays, and other neat information here! Notably, the median and average turn length(s) only increased by 4 to 5 turns respectively. Bulky waters did absolutely get better, and status control got much better.

Ultimately, the tour seemed very healthy, and players/spectators overwhelmingly voted that it was a positive experience; Either more fun or healthy. This seems to imply great promise for future Raikouless endeavors, but with the small sample size, anything could happen.
For now, I lean towards being anti-Raikou, but more data will be much appreciated. Luckily, the new forum tour should grant just that and more. I look forward to seeing what will come of it. Hopefully this post and data will be seen as enlightening for all involved.
 
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Hello UUBL thread,

With a new tournament without Raikou on the horizon and recent events featuring UUBL like ADVLTL, I made a VR update based on every submissions that were shared in this thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed! However, since all these VRs were made in a metagame with Medicham, the official VR deviated a bit from the estimated aggregation of some Pokemon placement. Medicham was a very common and impactful Pokemon, so its departure affected the ranking of some individual Pokemon, and more could move up and down in response to this metagame shift in the future. I won't go over every VR changes that happened since I also ordered the Pokemon within subtiers this time instead of ranking them alphabetically like before, I'll just highlight some noteworthy impacts of Medicham's departure

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Competing Fighting-types
The other metagame defining fighters would realistically have dropped a subrank based on their average ranking, but even if they each serve different purposes than Medicham, I decided to keep them in their previous sub rank since they now face less competition as Fighting-types. Hariyama is now arguably the most well rounded fighter in the tier, Blaziken is now one of the remaining few decently fast fighters that can make Dragonite wary of trying to challenge it, and Machamp is now the strongest wallbreaker of its typing. Medicham's departure also made other previously unranked fighter easier to fit. A few players experimented with Hitmontop as a bulky spinner with nice utility tools that does well against spikers (some even ranked it very highly, but I'd need to see more of it). Hitmonlee is a more offensively inclined spinner with similar matchups and a good speed tier, even outspeeding Qwilfish and threatening to spin or EQ before it can retaliate. Finally, Poliwrath has some toughs matchups but can abuse some common Pokemon like Vap, Oma, and non WoW Houndoom while threatening common fighter answers like Dnite and even Weez and Qwil with its special coverage. We may see a greater variety in both individual and set usage in the future.

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Normal-types
While they have sufficient power to break through the same Fighting-weaks Pokemon like Medi did, the other fighters remain easier to handle comparatively, so Medi's departure logically benefits some of the Normal Pokemon that were scared of it. Chansey would have risen regardless of Medi's presence going by the rankings, but Miltank would likely have fallen a subrank by that same metric. Medi's departure is quite a boon for it as most of the other fighters that don't hold a Choice Band or boosting move become unreliable at forcing Miltank out after a Curse and can quickly get overwhelmed. I also keep seeing Curse Miltank performing well in-game in a very consistent manner. Ursaring is a bit of different case that thrives mostly against stallish, slow builds, but it might have a better chance at accomplishing something against more offensive teams if they don't pack a strong and faster Fighting-type as often as before. Finally, Slaking might have not reached that ranking based on everyone's submissions normally, but the few times I saw it in-games it was always hard to prevent it from picking a KO and no longer having to worry about dealing with the looming Medicham on the Truant turn only plays in its favor.

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Fighting- checks
One thing that made Medicham difficult to handle compared to other fighters was the sheer strength of its coverage, even on neutral targets. Its Shadow Ball made bulky Ghost- and Psychic- types unreliable against it, and the speed tie with Dragonite threatening a OHKO with CB boosted Rock Slide was also massive. Dragonite now becomes an overall better Fighting- check with most of them being slower than even Adamant variants and much less threatening with Rock Slide. Dusclops, Slowbro, Misdreavus and other Pokemon are much less afraid of the much weaker HP Ghost that are not always easy to fit on fighters' moveset (although they still need to respect it especially if boosted), and even Venusaur now can more easily afford to invest in Special Defense and still remain decent against fighters. Weezing also no longer has to worry about a potential STAB Psychic. None of the listed Pokemon placement here had their ranking directly influenced by Medicham leaving, but this could change in the future.

UUBL is still susceptible to be affected by tiering shifts in the future, for better... or worst. I personnally don't have a strong opinion on Medicham no longer being there, but it certainly eases teambuilding at times. Regardless, the same might happen to the other Pokemon who has seen a good share of complains as well: Raikou.
 
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Hello UUBL!

One of our new players surfnWOB has gone to the trouble of compiling data from UUBL's replays from November 2nd to the 13th, and Pakota~Moet helped with the sheet as well. The data may be from friendlies and test games but many of these players have been practicing the raikouless meta from the discord's October Raikou banned mini tour and are now testing teams for the upcoming Raikou is Kill tour. It's our hope that this data may help illuminate emerging trends in an early raikouless meta to provide a leg up for those practicing. Please keep in mind the sample size and nature of the games played and take this for what it is. Big thanks to surfnWOB and Pakota~Moet for their contributions!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...LtJjSON-Ys/edit?gid=1723992498#gid=1723992498
 
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UUBL Raikouless Predictions
As the UUBL tournament gets going, I'd like to use existing data to make some predictions about how it might fan out compared to tourneys with Riakou.

The metagame changes a lot without Raikou as you might imagine. The UUBL discord ran a tournament without Raikou, and some interesting conclusions can be drawn from this. With a small sample size, some guessing inevitably has to be done to fill in the gaps (mostly by looking at friendly replays and extrapolating meta trends; Friendly replay stats from beyond November 13th are currently missing).

Notably, the metagame only ends up a little slower (as mentioned in my previous post, 4 turns longer via the median and 5 turns longer on average). Heal bell ends up more common, and water types much better without very strong checks to them (most waters also perform great role compression such as Omastar being the best spiker, meaning you may end up stacking waters without realizing).

Now, some specific rises/falls that occured:
Lanturn

LANTURN
Without Raikou, players scrambled to find a good replacement electric. Lanturn, at first, was somewhat dismissed since it's mostly used currently as a Raikou check (immune to tbolt, resists HP ice). Without Raikou, it's not entirely unreasonable to assume Lanturn would fall in usage, as another electric rose up to take Raikou's place. Although mons like Electabuzz and even Pikachu were tested, thus far they've been relegated to niche usage on very specific teams. Lanturn, however, seems to have taken up the mantle instead. In Raikou's meta, Lanturn is ranked 31st. In Raikouless, based on tourney usage, Lanturn rose to #3. That's a rise of 28 spots! It's not hard to see why: On top of being a decent electric, Lanturn is very well suited for a metagame with bulky waters and heal bell. Lanturn, being a water type itself, resists water. This allows it to scare out most of the dangerous water type threats such as Vaporeon, Slowbro, Tentacruel, and Omastar. Resistance to boltbeam allows Lanturn to come in on Regice, a very popular special wall, and spread twave or toxic. Lanturn's ability allows it to come in on enemies with electric coverage and even heal; making it a good partner to bulky waters. And since Lanturn is bulky itself, it can benefit from heal bell support by running rest.
Alakazam

ALAKAZAM
Although it didn't perform very well (~38% WR), Alakazam rose to #4 in usage. With CM, Zam functions very similarly to Raikou (who's absence leaves a vacuum), although Zam is far more frail, but possesses far greater coverage and utility options. Zam terrorized friendlies leading up to and during the tour. Based on its WR though, Zam still fails to live up to the terror instilled by Raikou.
Articuno

ARTICUNO
Articuno currently resides in B tier alongside Lanturn. Currently ranked 56th, Articuno has seen a lot of usage in Raikouless, mostly due to the efforts of Pakota~Moet experimenting with it. Articuno has a lot to love in Raikouless, although almost exclusively on semi-stall or stall. Notably, it's a special check immune to ground (making it better into spikes compositions), that carries heal bell, roar, and haze. A little experimentation has even been done using Extrasensory to hit poison types and hidden power grass to hit omastar and lanturn. This made it an attractive option over Chansey, who lacks phazing and is rather passive. Double bell compositions (yes those are real) almost always run Articuno as a secondary heal bell user.
Sceptile

SCEPTILE
Sceptile was brought very rarely in the Raikouless tourney, and wasn't brought to friendlies for a long time. This was a massive oversight on everyone's part. Sceptile, especially as a lead, tore apart most of the structured Raikouless teams like they were paper. Leaf Blade deals high damage to most water types, sub/endeavor can usually break a special check, leech sets massively pressure passive mons, ect. Sceptile beats most common leads, too; Omastar is scared out, Lanturn also takes too much, and you can use substitute to see what CB mons lock into (especially relevant for Slaking). Teams now specifically craft to avoid losing to Sceptile.
Slaking

SLAKING
Continuing with the trend of offensively-oriented mons rising, Slaking got scarily good. With more mons running lots of rest and heal bell, less are running protect as a form of chip healing. This leads Slaking to tear holes in defensive teams, usually eliminating an important mon with every missed prediction. Alongside Alakazam, Slaking exists to fill a vacancy left by Raikou leaving.
Steelix

STEELIX

To finish off, probably the most significant drop is Steelix. Steelix is A- tier normally, alongside Donphan and Slowbro. Without Raikou, Steelix drops to almost no usage. Steelix, unfortunately, fails to stand out compared to Registeel, who has a far better movepool. Steelix's current niche is checking Raikou; Being immune to Tbolt and toxic, and being neutral to HP Ice. Without the very thing it's meant to check, Steelix seems in a weird limbo where the only reason to use it over Registeel is higher physical defense, stab earthquake, roar, and rock head. Poor Steelix :(

Conclusion
Although various conclusions about the meta, such as certain moves or types becoming better, can be gleaned, I would moreso like to highlight something else about Raikouless that seems more exciting; It's not fully developed. Sceptile, for example, seemingly came out of nowhere due to a lack of development. There's a chance some random mon could end up rising a lot without Raikou; IMO there's a chance Lapras or Gardevoir could end up rising next. Make sure to keep an eye out in Teh's UUBL tournament to follow along, and if you're in the tournament already, perhaps you could be the one to develop a mon next!
 
Last edited:
Heard through the grapevine that steel and kou are rising. Putting my 2 cents in that cloy, who is ranked well below both, should drop accordingly.
For what I know nothing is set in stone yet but a lot of the community does lean towards making them rise. Seems like by the time I try playing this meta again it will be basically completly different ahah.

Also hi bud, hope you doing well :quagchamppogsire:
 
ADV UUBL 'Raikou is Kill' Tournament - Replays & Usage Statistics :Dragonite::registeel::weezing:


+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Lead | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Lanturn | 25 | 13.44% | 52.00% |
| 2 | Qwilfish | 20 | 10.75% | 50.00% |
| 3 | Omastar | 18 | 9.68% | 61.11% |
| 4 | Swellow | 10 | 5.38% | 90.00% |
| 5 | Smeargle | 9 | 4.84% | 22.22% |
| 6 | Typhlosion | 9 | 4.84% | 55.56% |
| 7 | Slaking | 9 | 4.84% | 44.44% |
| 8 | Vaporeon | 8 | 4.30% | 62.50% |
| 9 | Sceptile | 8 | 4.30% | 37.50% |
| 10 | Hariyama | 8 | 4.30% | 62.50% |
| 11 | Dodrio | 7 | 3.76% | 14.29% |
| 12 | Regice | 6 | 3.23% | 66.67% |
| 13 | Glalie | 5 | 2.69% | 40.00% |
| 14 | Registeel | 5 | 2.69% | 40.00% |
| 15 | Venusaur | 4 | 2.15% | 50.00% |
| 16 | Dragonite | 4 | 2.15% | 25.00% |
| 17 | Alakazam | 4 | 2.15% | 50.00% |
| 18 | Tauros | 3 | 1.61% | 33.33% |
| 19 | Marowak | 3 | 1.61% | 66.67% |
| 20 | Donphan | 3 | 1.61% | 33.33% |
| 21 | Machamp | 2 | 1.08% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Houndoom | 2 | 1.08% | 50.00% |
| 23 | Armaldo | 2 | 1.08% | 50.00% |
| 24 | Espeon | 2 | 1.08% | 50.00% |
| 25 | Lapras | 2 | 1.08% | 50.00% |
| 26 | Kangaskhan | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 27 | Electrode | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 28 | Sharpedo | 1 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 29 | Arcanine | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 30 | Jynx | 1 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 31 | Roselia | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 32 | Tentacruel | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 33 | Scizor | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Dragonite | 106 | 56.99% | 44.34% |
| 2 | Registeel | 79 | 42.47% | 44.30% |
| 3 | Weezing | 60 | 32.26% | 41.67% |
| 4 | Vaporeon | 47 | 25.27% | 51.06% |
| 5 | Chansey | 42 | 22.58% | 50.00% |
| 6 | Omastar | 41 | 22.04% | 63.41% |
| 7 | Lanturn | 41 | 22.04% | 48.78% |
| 8 | Alakazam | 36 | 19.35% | 41.67% |
| 9 | Houndoom | 35 | 18.82% | 48.57% |
| 10 | Donphan | 27 | 14.52% | 55.56% |
| 11 | Regice | 27 | 14.52% | 40.74% |
| 12 | Regirock | 27 | 14.52% | 62.96% |
| 13 | Qwilfish | 25 | 13.44% | 44.00% |
| 14 | Sceptile | 24 | 12.90% | 54.17% |
| 15 | Miltank | 23 | 12.37% | 56.52% |
| 16 | Machamp | 21 | 11.29% | 38.10% |
| 17 | Ursaring | 21 | 11.29% | 61.90% |
| 18 | Articuno | 21 | 11.29% | 52.38% |
| 19 | Venusaur | 19 | 10.22% | 57.89% |
| 20 | Blastoise | 18 | 9.68% | 55.56% |
| 21 | Hariyama | 18 | 9.68% | 55.56% |
| 22 | Smeargle | 17 | 9.14% | 47.06% |
| 23 | Tentacruel | 16 | 8.60% | 43.75% |
| 24 | Tauros | 16 | 8.60% | 37.50% |
| 25 | Slaking | 16 | 8.60% | 43.75% |
| 26 | Haunter | 15 | 8.06% | 46.67% |
| 27 | Blaziken | 13 | 6.99% | 30.77% |
| 28 | Dusclops | 13 | 6.99% | 61.54% |
| 29 | Slowbro | 12 | 6.45% | 75.00% |
| 30 | Dodrio | 12 | 6.45% | 33.33% |
| 31 | Armaldo | 12 | 6.45% | 41.67% |
| 32 | Typhlosion | 11 | 5.91% | 63.64% |
| 33 | Swellow | 10 | 5.38% | 90.00% |
| 34 | Marowak | 9 | 4.84% | 88.89% |
| 35 | Umbreon | 9 | 4.84% | 22.22% |
| 36 | Kingdra | 8 | 4.30% | 25.00% |
| 37 | Misdreavus | 7 | 3.76% | 57.14% |
| 38 | Entei | 7 | 3.76% | 28.57% |
| 39 | Steelix | 7 | 3.76% | 28.57% |
| 40 | Solrock | 7 | 3.76% | 42.86% |
| 41 | Scizor | 6 | 3.23% | 16.67% |
| 42 | Hitmontop | 6 | 3.23% | 50.00% |
| 43 | Lapras | 6 | 3.23% | 33.33% |
| 44 | Banette | 5 | 2.69% | 60.00% |
| 45 | Jumpluff | 5 | 2.69% | 60.00% |
| 46 | Glalie | 5 | 2.69% | 40.00% |
| 47 | Slowking | 5 | 2.69% | 40.00% |
| 48 | Linoone | 4 | 2.15% | 25.00% |
| 49 | Crobat | 4 | 2.15% | 50.00% |
| 50 | Arcanine | 4 | 2.15% | 50.00% |
| 51 | Hitmonlee | 4 | 2.15% | 100.00% |
| 52 | Sableye | 4 | 2.15% | 100.00% |
| 53 | Kangaskhan | 3 | 1.61% | 33.33% |
| 54 | Exeggutor | 3 | 1.61% | 66.67% |
| 55 | Zangoose | 3 | 1.61% | 33.33% |
| 56 | Gardevoir | 3 | 1.61% | 33.33% |
| 57 | Lunatone | 3 | 1.61% | 33.33% |
| 58 | Girafarig | 2 | 1.08% | 0.00% |
| 59 | Golduck | 2 | 1.08% | 100.00% |
| 60 | Trapinch | 2 | 1.08% | 0.00% |
| 61 | Espeon | 2 | 1.08% | 50.00% |
| 62 | Vileplume | 2 | 1.08% | 0.00% |
| 63 | Roselia | 2 | 1.08% | 0.00% |
| 64 | Quagsire | 1 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 65 | Poliwrath | 1 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 66 | Electrode | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 67 | Feraligatr | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 68 | Rhydon | 1 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 69 | Sharpedo | 1 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 70 | Cacturne | 1 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 71 | Clefable | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 72 | Cradily | 1 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 73 | Sandslash | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 74 | Jynx | 1 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 75 | Diglett | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 76 | Manectric | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 77 | Walrein | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 78 | Ampharos | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 79 | Lickitung | 1 | 0.54% | 100.00% |
| 80 | Crawdaunt | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
| 81 | Ludicolo | 1 | 0.54% | 0.00% |
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I enjoy this tier a lot, and since I haven’t played many games so far this tour due to activity wins, I wanted to take a look at trends so far. Figured I may as well share here for anyone interested. This will be continuously updated as the tournament progresses.
 
Dropping some shit i been using

|| Jumpluff Dossier ||

Jumpluff 1 @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 156 HP / 176 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Sleep Powder
Stun Spore
Substitute
Leech Seed

Jumpluff 2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 160 HP / 32 Atk / 100 SpD / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
Sleep Powder
Substitute
Leech Seed
Hidden Power [Flying]

Jumpluff HO @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 156 HP / 136 SpD / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Sleep Powder
Encore
Stun Spore
Leech Seed

(Jumpluff) Spikes @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 156 HP / 176 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Sleep Powder
Leech Seed
Substitute
Encore.

Paraspam Glue:
Sometimes I crank the spdf up on this mon and drop sball for seismic toss or toxic.

Kangaskhan (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 212 HP / 100 Atk / 172 SpD / 24 Spe
Adamant Nature
Body Slam
Rest
Wish
Shadow Ball

+2 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 212 HP / 172 SpD Kangaskhan: 299-352 (74 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
100+ Atk Kangaskhan Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 253-298 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Sub Users:
Obviously use sub Wak.

Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
Substitute
Focus Punch
Rock Slide
Earthquake

Alakazam @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA
Calm Mind
Substitute
Psychic
Hidden Power [Water]


Dragonite @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 8 HP / 248 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Dragon Dance
Substitute
Hidden Power [Flying]
Earthquake

Rapidash #1 Subpasser @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Fire Blast
Toxic
Substitute
Baton Pass


I think I prefer the sub set to this one, but before I landed on that, this worked well. The bulk + dedge liechi combo lets it reliably take out quite a few checks.

Dragonite @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Atk / 136 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
Dragon Dance
Double-Edge
Earthquake
Hidden Power [Flying]

252 SpA Vaporeon Ice Beam vs. 252 HP 30 IVs / 136 SpD 30 IVs Dragonite: 326-384 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Thoughts on Raikouless
Resources below
I was gonna post this after the tournament; there's still 2-3 sets left, but I feel like I've seen my points validated enough so far


I'm just gonna be up front about this- plus Raikou is better than no Raikou and I will spend this post trying to convince you of the same. I know it's long, tl;dr is in conclusion.

I don't want to be a doomer and say that the tier sucks without Raikou and it's all bad, because it's not. But I feel like I need to get a lot of complaining out because not everyone sees the issues. This cannot possibly be the tier's peak form. I feel like the tier has some shenanigans that might need some attention.

When Raikou was being played, I was on the fence in action against it. I didn't think Raikou was terrible, but was worried about what the meta would look like without it, for reasons completely different than what I've written below. At first I went into Raikouless thinking "okay so this isn't that bad." Then I started noticing little things that I could sweep under the rug. But watching, building for, and playing battles in the tournament focused my eyes onto things I had already been thinking but refused to acknowledge (below). Eventually I decided Raikou was more fun. I thought I was alone in switching back to the Raikou side, but I was surprised to see Wenderz actually support Raikou sentiment and say that another part of the community also collectively didn't find issue with it.

Click to expand
The first and most obvious observation is that the meta is too wide. It feels very difficult to try and cover everything in 6 Pokemon. Everything has a direct counter; for example, Chansey hard walls a lot of special attackers, but if it's in against Houndoom or there's a Diglett, suddenly your wall is totally broken. Sceptile handles a lot of Pokemon, but if you send in an Arcanine Sceptile is toast. And you can go on for just about any Pokemon in the tier. This isn't inherently bad, like for example Blissey should be able to consistently hard check regular Zapdos, or Gholdengo should be able to handle Corviknight. But the issue is that the UUBL threats aren't centralized, and neither are the responses- in type, moves, strategies, or stats. It's hard to not be able to think of something that hard counters any given team, and it's hard to know what you'll need to counter in the first place.
This eventually boils down to "well I just lose if they have this." Which is not fun when that happens. It's like running a mini matchup fish every game.
Observation 2, related, is that if you have an equally pieced team as your opponent, the mental strategy of how to win becomes a very long game that you have to think about on every turn. I don't want to do that every game, sorry. But when I don't have to think, it's because I had [x Pokemon] and they can't get past it, or vice versa.
Observation number 3 is that all the fast Pokemon are not great. The tier doesn't have a real Aerodactyl or Gengar or Agility Metagross comparison. The fast Pokemon all have substantial weaknesses. Tauros is fine, I guess.
This results in a very slow (speed stat, not pacing) meta. My last game in the tournament I got swept by Machamp and Marowak. Like, really? Base 55 destroyed my team?
Normally I feel like a healthy gen 3 meta has a bell curve of stall to balance to hyper offense. The lack of truly good fast Pokemon makes it feel like the bell curve is upside-down. The triangle is like "offense beats balance, stall beats offense... But stall also beats balance." The only reason UUBL hasn't become stall oriented is most likely due to the majority of players not wanting to load it. But then stall isn't even that good because it's the most susceptible to observation 5 (we'll get there). Which circles back around to offense, creating either end being high and balance low.
BTW I don't think that freeing any form of reversal/flail or speed pass will actually accomplish anything to solve this.
Observation 4, I'd like to now address another massive power imbalance in the Raikouless meta: paralysis. You'd think that removing a fast threat that often runs a paralyzing move itself would lower that. But consistently, I'm mildly frustrated by the amount of Body Slam and Thunder Wave that I use and run into, and Heal Bell and Natural Cure only go so far, despite how common they are, even so common that double Bell isn't crazy. Think of how many Pokemon become unrealistically difficult to deal with if you're being paralyzed, for example Slowbro, or Substitute, or Marowak, or DDragonite teams. Reversal/Flail and speed pass do not solve this issue either. I hesitate to call this an issue, as paralysis spread and management is a skill, but let's be honest paralysis can be pretty nuts at times. Not everyone likes having to roll the dice for Lanturn Thunderbolting into your +2 attack HP Ground Scizor or whatever and you get paralyzed into full paralysis.

Sidebar, I didn't know where to put this, so it's going here. Without a ladder, this tournament feels like half the story. Being able to prep for specific opponents doesn't really explain the whole situation. I feel like Dark Catman made a good point in saying that this tier is a little ridiculous because his teams do very well on ladder but he just gets counter teamed every tournament (see observation 1). A bit of hyperbolic example though, since Dark Catman has only ever played with like 4 teams in almost a year, but the point stands. Having a tour with so many drop outs and remaining players who are familiar with each other only shows what's good, not what's consistent.
Let me take a moment to illustrate what I'm about to go into:
We've all found spoiled food in the fridge. We understand that that's just naturally gonna happen, throw it out and move on. Eat something else. Our first thought isn't "the fridge is broken."
Similarly with Pokemon, if a game is spoiled by an unlucky turn, we know that that's naturally gonna happen, throw it out and move on. Keep playing.
But how many times are you gonna find a piece of spoiled food before you do suspect there's a deeper issue with the fridge? It doesn't have to be the whole fridge, but if like 4 things you just looked at are being thrown out, there might be a problem.
I'm not saying all the battles were spoiled by a bad turn, but go back and look at all the games in the tournament to see how many times Miltank was one (1) body slam paralysis away from ending the game. Or how many times a crit bailed a completely hopeless matchup. These aren't exclusive to UUBL, they're in literally every format. But Raikouless ADV UUBL seems to accentuate these situations to a more noticable degree. I've been finding it a little more difficult to stabilize after something like this happens than I do in other tiers, but maybe that's only a thing for my building.
Observation 5) this isn't just talking about rng, having 1 free turn or 1 turn of anything unexpected happening swings the game massively. For example, in game 3 of me vs Azure, he brought pretty dang close to the exact team needed to lock out my entire squad. But Alakazam lands focus punch turn 1 and the situation turned into "I would have to throw to not win anymore." Is that fair? You could chalk this up to playing skill, but should he have ever expected focus punch? Even if focus punch was in Alakazam's top 4 most used moves, does it make sense to expect that vs Hariyama? Alakazam didn't even have to stay in, let alone make a prediction. Trying to justify building for a swing that massive is impossible (see issue 1).
There is seldom a situation where you're immediately disadvantaged in front of a sweeper and the best solution is to *not* go into the Pokemon that's on your team specifically to deal with that sweeper. Any decision can lead to immediately losing something vs Alakazam in general, it's like the king of getting free turns in. And because of how wide the meta is, typically unexpectedly losing your answer to a Pokemon collapses your team under its own weight because you don't have enough breathing room to cover everything with more than 1 Pokemon. How often should we expect a fringe move to come out to clear a game? Every Pokemon? Because it only takes 1 at any point. How many times does a single unexpected turn flipping a game happen before you suspect that there's an underlying issue? I'm not sure I'm saying this is widespread, but I'm not convinced there's not a possibility of it happening.
Maybe these are all just opinion, so take loosely.
These issues all happen in Pokemon in general, but are noticeable as they all stack together in a single format. This is compounded by these issues feeding into each other. Paralysis gives free turns, which enables a Pokemon to get past its checks unexpectedly, which is a problem when the wide meta with few speed control options prevents much else from stopping it on a team.
So how does Raikou's presence alone solve all this?
Raikou is the key that unlocks every door and that's a good thing. I'll actually even use the criticism of the Raikou meta to show why it is healthy.

Opposition to Raikou say the following:
It's too centralizing
You need too many checks for it
It's too strong for the tier
If you get a sour turn vs Raikou it just runs you over even if you brought the right stuff

The centralization of Raikou makes team building easier. Someone put it as "Raikou is the no fun allowed Pokemon." And that's what it is. It prevents fringe usage. But it's not like everything is only 1 team that everyone uses. There are a few "actually, fun is allowed" Pokemon that throw Raikou teams into disarray, they just require planning, and it's not like Raikou can't still stop them. There was more variety with Raikou than people like to say. But you could at least expect what you're getting into with Raikou and 2 Raikou checks being the big thing.

I'd argue that you need something this strong to control the proportionately large amount of chaos. You don't need to give meter maids tear gas and riot shields, but it's also a little crazy to suggest to a zoo that their 12ft pits with an electric fence on the other side is too overbearing when your gerbils only need a plastic bin. Like yeah, most animals (tiers) don't need that level of domineering control, but some do.
In relation to how this controls paralysis, Raikou might spread it sometimes, and it doesn't do much to paralysis spreaders (though substitute and rest on a fast, bulky Pressure user certainly helps), but it does steam roll the paralysis abusers. Ursaring and Marowak for example need some supreme positioning to not get Raikou'd.

In Raikouless, getting a sour turn against anything gets your team run over. If Raikou crits or para-full-paras Chansey at least you have a backup ready to go. That is not the case here. This further centralizes not just the tier's Pokemon, but the rng, because Raikou is the only Pokemon where rng mattered for. So you can look out for it and have a plan already premade. Not so in Raikouless. The unexpected can happen at any point, whereas the unexpected only matters when Raikou is in the field.

Except, also yes, Raikouless is the same because you can't afford 1 normal resist. So Raikou plus 2 checks just turned into maybe Tauros plus 2 checks.

Because Raikou borderline answers everything, it's what keeps the tier stabilized. But of course there will be complaints against it when it's the only thing that matters. You'll notice the stuff happening with it more often simply because it's everywhere and critical to its meta.
I didn't think Raikou was even that broken because having 2 Raikou checks on your team controlled it to being on a regular Pokemon's level without being overly restrictive on anything else because you can stop Raikou from doing something to them. On the field Raikou isn't that imposing. Just on ⅓ to ½ of your team. The other ⅔ or ½ can be whatever. Compared to OU, that's a lot of the team dedicated. Like, having no answer to Skarmory will probably lose to Skarmory. But Skarm doesn't need 2 answers. Similar to Tyranitar. So Raikou looks a little silly in comparison. But then compare it to other formats. GSC OU needs the whole team to work around Snorlax. RBY needs very restrictive structure around Tauros and Snorlax. Often, it's a core of 3 and then 3 others, like how I've just described Raikou UUBL. And it's not like Raikou is running insane moves like Jirachi in DPP. Raikou runs fairly honest moves, the only problematic one being 10% para from Thunderbolt. It can run Thunder Wave, but that's not even a great move for it, given its checks.

Unfortunately, because it's ultimately up to OU whether Raikou stays or goes, keeping it may just be kicking the can down the road. I don't for sure know why Raikou and Registeel haven't risen to OU yet, but I think key OU tours are happening soon, and maybe we'll see additional considerations that might cement them in. We'll see what happens in that situation. But the current state of Raikouless UUBL suggests that consistent team building is gonna evolve into some post-modern "gotcha" or paraspam offense. Games often feel very RBY-esque where you have 1 sleep sack and 3 paralyzed Pokemon while you try to creep in a heal bell or something.
What would be my solution to healthy Raikouless? I think team preview would greatly help. I'm not gonna elaborate much here though because that's literally never going to happen.
I also like the idea of like how VGC is divided. "UUBL regulation c and regulation d" lol. Use the legalities from specific time periods. Or, divide it into side a and side b, where each division has a carefully selected half of the UUBL/UU Pokemon in order to narrow the threat list. But neither of those are even close to being in the cards either. Other than that, just play what's fun. I don't think there's a way to reasonably ban or unban anything to actually help the pain points here. Action on Thunder Wave helps half of one of these points, but exasperates the wide meta issue.
Ban Thunder Wave?
Goldmason:
:v4:

What do you think? Is this a me problem? Am I too lost in the sauce? If so, at least keep an eye on these and see if the issues happen going forward





Personal Raikouless VR

my-image (1) (2).png

(Ignore all Pokemon in D, included just to reflect what's on the current one and needs to go)


S
I do not think anything is worthy of S. Dragonite is unquestionably the best in the tier, but is it as better than Articuno or Sceptile as Houndoom is better than Nidoking or Glalie?

A+
:Dragonite: Dragonite fits on any team style and can accomplish what you need it to, but it's limited by Pagophobia into half the tier. Also a Tyranitar situation where it needs 2 Dragon Dances to be undefeatable but does not do much at 1.

:Miltank: Miltank needs to be respected at this point. It will no longer be a forgotten Pokemon that steals games because it wasn't prepped for. I think most builders should be considering Miltank on both sides of the field as the meta goes on. Body Slam with no attack investment is literally enough to sweep against resists. Heal Bell and Milk drink are broken. Its ability lets it stay in vs a lot of things like Regice and Arcanine. It's so fast that even after a curse with 0 speed EVs it's still faster than a lot of bulky mons. You think a ghost type or Regirock will save you until it cracks out Shadow Ball or Earthquake. Can potentially stall rain. This Pokemon has a lot. Miltank/Tauros/Dodrio are the trifecta of offense, at least one will be on a team.

:Registeel: Registeel isn't as threatening in itself anymore, but it enables teammates enough to keep in A+. It leaving with Raikou will not affect much tbh. Waters get better; the rich get richer.

:omastar: Omastar having normal resistance is massive in its viability. It is the best spiker, hands down. Doesn't always stay around for long, but guarantees it will do something relevant every game it's in.

:Lanturn: Lanturn. One of the biggest winners here. There was debate about what happens to Lanturn when its one role disappears- would it drop off? Would it function as a bulky water in a heap of other bulky water options? Turns out it's actually really good as an electric type (though the sheer lack of other viable options certainly helps it). Lanturn can probably be expected on every team. It doesn't have a ton of sets, but it's got just enough variety and perfect coverage that it doesn't feel like it loses much running any of them. Counters are very telegraphed, status being its number one issue in a tier packed with clerics. Good in early, mid, and late game. Big glow up, not unreasonable to put it in top 3.

:Vaporeon: Vaporeon is solid offensively and defensively. The majority of its immediate threats being weak to Toxic is fortuitous. This Pokemon helps make games longer for teammates that need that

:Marowak: Marowak comes in, clicks Double Edge, leaves. Comes in again, clicks Substitute, wins the game.

:Chansey: Chansey no longer has to pray for no rng vs Raikou and is now allowed to be more of a special pillar on a team rather than a tent pole. Still very exploitable though. Ice Beam is a valid consideration.

A
:Alakazam: Alakazam comes in and makes guaranteed progress, assuming you're playing against Houndoom well. Its biggest weakness is being autocorrected to Alabama or Alaskan on mobile

:Sceptile: Sceptile is a trade machine, able to take positive k/d often. Thank the Lord endeavor and leech seed are exclusive to each other. Because it has Substitute endeavor/leech leaf blade, it's a bit limited on move 4. Could see some experimentation. Swords dance feels like a trap but maybe someone could make it work.

:Houndoom: Houndoom utility checks a lot of Pokemon and can be offense on its own merits for a few turns. Will o wisp feels extremely useless on this Pokemon, don't use it.

:Articuno: Articuno LOVES this meta. It's got one job and it does it well, but also has the stats for a creative set on occasion, such as a hidden power that hits its enemies or phys def investment. If Registeel goes too, Articuno might be a staple.

:Tentacruel: Tentacruel is the best spinner, period. Its typing allows it to farm turns against Articuno and Vaporeon, as well as damage and sludge bomb poison chance against whatever comes in. High speed with mixed offense means it doesn't mind if it hits a sour turn against a switch-in. I personally think Swords dance is more valid on tentacruel than Sceptile. In general, tentacruel just makes responding to it kinda awkward

:Venusaur: Venusaur is a good sleep setter. I'd argue the best. Sub seed on top of that is annoying, but also, like tentacruel, can be awkward to respond to because it's probably physical but your physical answers don't love the type matchup. Plus switching sets up half of the sub seed. Best answer is probably Armaldo

:Armaldo: Armaldo is a good physical answer that has a variety of sets. Rapid spin is obvious, and players have used it to success, but apparently I personally can't build a team where Armaldo is good at spinning. It will get a decent amount of turns in regardless of what you want it to do, you just need to make sure it actually does something with those turns.

A-
:Slowbro: Slowbro can spiral an opposing team fast with calm mind, forcing them to scramble a plan together if they didn't build for it. Snowballing Slowbro can turn a midgame into the last few turns. The trickiest part is figuring out what 2 attacking moves you want on it. Psychic flamethrower is my favorite, but ice beam and surf are also good. Even mono Slowbro with psychic can work, especially if Registeel leaves

:Espeon: Espeon is just an Alakazam that doesn't have to worry about Houndoom, but less set variety means it can't guarantee progress. Still good though.

:Weezing: Weezing might be a little high here, the longer things go on in the meta, the less it's needed. Haze and will-o pain split are needed for some things but comes with guts liability, especially because sludge bomb can also poison. Otherwise, really good vs a handful of things and poison is an ok offensive type when you can burn Registeel. Registeel leaving will probably sink weezing's usefulness.

:Swellow: Swellow starts the normal spam and guts clump of Pokemon in my vr. Swellow stands above them, but only if it's burned or poisoned. If you can't get it statused it's just okay. Sub Endeavor is a real set. But if it's guts offense, it's gonna start making motion and can be hard to answer.

:Dodrio: Dodrio is *imo* the best normal spammer because Drill Peck can answer Scizor and Armaldo. Spikes immune. Best when paired with more physical offense, can't really be the sole attacker on a team. Miltank/Tauros/Dodrio are the trifecta of offense, at least one will be on a team.

:Tauros: Tauros is the same thing but a bit bulkier and outruns dodrio. These two are very similar in viability.

:Typhlosion: Typhlosion I put in the middle of the physical spam here, which is probably higher than most would put it. I just think it's one of the strongest special finishers because of its speed and coverage thanks to thunder punch and focus punch.

:Hariyama: :Ursaring: :Machamp: Guts clump- all do similar things but hariyama has more variety, so I put it on top of them (apart from swellow). Hariyama is good knock off user, lead Pokemon, Articuno and Fire check, etc. You can assume it's thick fat, but guts is also valid. The other 2, Ursaring and Machamp, are great stall breakers and can carry a team offensively in the early and mid game. Have the edge over swellow vs thunder wave because they're already so slow.

:Blastoise: Blastoise is a good spinner with enough bulk and compatibility to run other support moves like roar, toxic, haze, yawn, refresh. With torrent it can do decent damage, but at that point your spinner is basically gone.

:Donphan: Donphan is a really good spinner as well. It's more offensive than the others, with enough bulk to stay the whole game with wish support. Immune to twave is huge. But there's a lot of water types. Because of those 2 team requirements, it feels less self sufficient. As good as Blastoise basically.

:Qwilfish: Qwilfish is an okay spiker that can get one or two layers and trade with self destruct or destiny Bond, spreads paralysis also. Gets free turns vs Vaporeon and Articuno for more layers if it has some way of healing.

:Regice: Regice is a good special wall, but its vulnerability to toxic, the low usability of opposing special attackers that don't resist ice, and the rise of physical attackers has hurt its usefulness. Raikou being replaced with Lanturn as an electric kinda ruins Regice, who really doesn't want to have to take that interaction. Fire types strangely feel fine in the water-guaranteed meta, therefore Regice feels like it has to tiptoe around what it can actually do.

:Misdreavus: Misdreavus is a good answer to a lot of choice banders.

:Dusclops: Dusclops has more staying power than Misdreavus. Will-o has guts liability. Spin blockers feel difficult to fit outside of stall.
B+
:Regirock: Regirock is a strong physical check but has very limited staying power. It could use a lot of experimentation still.

:Umbreon: Umbreon. Sometimes it's the roadblock, sometimes it's the car. It can hard wall some teams, but its limited offensive options get free turns against itself often. Extremely polarizing matchup fish

:Arcanine: Arcanine is good, extreme speed is a strong check to a lot of Pokemon. Thief is its second best move imo. The problem is all its other stuff. It feels like it doesn't get the value that its stats and ability suggest. Miltank really farms this thing.

:Rhydon: Rhydon is good as a Chansey response and thunder wave immune Pokemon. Choice band and 404 sub are both good choices, but the amount of water types and donphan are tough for it. Rock Head Double Edge is probably a must.

:Entei: Entei is actually really good, but it needs very specific scenarios to get in and start going. Fresh in on Chansey is one of them. But trying to switch this guy into anything is a doomed scenario, save like Arcanine or something. Miltank is also quite a hurdle.

:ampharos: Ampharos might be a little low here, because its ability, heal bell, and electric offense are really good traits. But it doesn't have the bulk to be so slow, and opposing lanturn borderline requires it to have hp grass, restricting its ability to run anything non-standard.

:Roselia: Roselia having aroma therapy, leech seed, spikes, natural cure, and 100 special attack carry it higher than it really should work on paper. Very limited in how you can use it though. It's like Chansey, but if it had no defensive value or wish. I'm probably very biased for it, it should not be this high but I'm not moving it. Realistically it should be B-

:vileplume: Vileplume is a better aroma therapy Pokemon than Roselia. Not great into a lot of things, but it's okay if you're running out of options on a team and need its specific typing with a cleric. Very limited use cases though. If you've sussed out ice beam on Vaporeon, Blastoise or Lanturn, vileplume can help the team a lot there. Also good vs weezing and Chansey. Basically the anti-wall wall. Do not compare to Venusaur, they do different things.

:Kingdra: Kingdra is the best rain Pokemon, but Vaporeon Chansey and lanturn ruin its rainy day parade.

:Crobat: Crobat is good, but whatever it locks into can be abused.

:hitmontop: Hitmontop is the third best physical offense spinner. A little bulky, but it can get turned around on really fast. Only advantage is stab brick break being decent and Mach punch as a priority to deal with endeavor.

:Hitmonlee: Hitmonlee is really good based on its speed tier, paralysis immunity and physical prowess. But it has extremely few turns on the field before it's tapping out.


B
:Nidoking: Nidoking has a lot of positive traits- basically status immune, mixed offense, poison point to get around sub, good speed tier.. but it can't have it all. It's the classic "jack of all trades, master of none."

:glalie: Glalie is the most unique spiker. Ice beam, earthquake and explosion put on offensive pressure but none of these are enough in the current meta to make a significant dent.

:smeargle: Smeargle you know what it does. Spore into spikes or belly drum.

:haunter: Haunter feels like the best it can hope for is destiny bond. It doesn't get a lot of turns, and it can't do a huge amount with them. Fragile spin blocker is also not super placeable in a wide meta.

:Blaziken: My feelings on Blaziken have not changed. On paper it's the best fire type because it also has fighting stab, and the best fighting type because it can also hit hard with special attacks. But the type chart is all its really has; taking it off of paper and playing it in the meta leaves it very lost.

:Steelix: Steelix is fine but almost everything has a move that hits Steelix. So it's kind of fallen off the face of the earth. A good Miltank answer, I guess. If Registeel is taken up to OU, we might see a Steelix Renaissance (but I'll probably take Aggron first)

:golduck: Golduck- I was skeptical of Celdanami's calm mind golduck propaganda but the results came in and it's actually very usable.

:Lapras: Whether or not Lapras will be good remains to be seen, but doubtful with both Articuno and Lanturn doing its jobs for it. Maybe it's the role compression your team is looking for though

:ludicolo: Ludicolo is in a tough spot because it's also a good rain Pokemon and sub leech user, and matches well into the water types, but idk. The rest of everything going on like physical offense and substitute and paralysis makes it hard to use.

B-
:sharpedo: Sharpedo in B and I am not joking. Sharpedo feels like it broke free of its shackles as a frail mixed attacker and found itself in a perfect meta for it to be threatening but not predictably occurring. Requires certain teammates, hates that it really wants choice band, and needs like 20 more EVs to work with, but overall a fair pick that could be explored. Matches well to ohko most of the lead Pokemon, and teammates can easily check the few leads that have advantage over it.

:slaking: Slaking having a slower speed stat meta benefits it. Slaking having such a polarized offense vs stall meta gives it a place but hurts it.

:Scizor: Scizor probably very low here, but I feel like the amount of Pokemon that can do about 50 to it prevent it from getting going. But if it can find 1 or 2 free turns, it's a menace. Maybe could move up to B+ actually

:solrock: Solrock is a good choice band user that checks most physical attackers. Limited options for itself and on teams, but it can be a good temporary check.

:Lunatone: Lunatone is the most used calm mind passer because sharing its physical checking ability with solrock and special defense boosting means it can get a lot of attempts in. Unfortunately it still gets washed by Vaporeon and other roar users.

:cacturne: Cacturne is usable and good, I promise. Sub punch with leech and another move is good, just don't expect it to be a spiker and you're set. Can still run spikes if wanted though. Ranked low just because there's a few Pokemon that it just can't get through like weezing or Articuno or tentacruel. Most teams will have at least one thing good vs cacturne, but it's still good into the rest of the team. There is definitely a team out there that can solve cacturne for UUBL and I'd be interested in finding it

:linoone: Linoone has it much harder now that the meta has widened out. You can no longer expect the opponent to have something it can drum against. It can still work, but it's the greatest matchup fish of the format.

:Slowking: Slowking is worse Slowbro. But slowbro is so good that having a worse one isn't bad. It's just a question of why use it when slowbro is an option.

:Gardevoir: Gardevoir can be used to check Vaporeon and lanturn. Its best use is full of support options, because just calm minding has better options.

:poliwrath: Poliwrath is where I'm deciding bottom of the barrel is. It can do things on paper but it's like Blaziken where it's not great when you actually go to use it. Definitely doesn't do nothing though.
C+
:Diglett: Diglett can grab Chansey, but Chansey isn't ubiquitous. Same but even worse with Houndoom. It can get a Lanturn without sub, I guess.

:kangaskhan: Kangaskhan... Actually kanga can probably be moved up to B- or somewhere (I made the image a few weeks before writing this). Like Umbreon, it either walls or gets walled.

:hypno: Hypno is the other calm mind passer.

:jynx: Jynx can't really fit enough options. Not even 4mss, it's struggling to get 1 of its moves to be good because the sets often dictate that it can't do more than 1 thing it's good at.

:Mr mime: Mr mime can cheese on a well built team but you'd have to be Archimedes to design something where it's usable.

C
:sableye: Sableye is actually the best spin blocker, but doesn't do much apart from blocking rapid spin. The other ghosts can accomplish more.

:Exeggutor: Exeggutor is at, like, that point in the beginning of a race where the runners raise their hips just before the start. It's not moving, but if something changes, Exeggutor might start running, Houndoom be darned

:porygon2: Porygon2 is worse Gardevoir.

:electrode: Electrode is a Swellow answer and of course gets rain on track. Other than that, Ampharos is an option. But rain isn't terrific and not everyone uses Swellow.

:Jumpluff: Jumpluff is fast, spike immune Venusaur if Venusaur forgot its offensive moves at home

:quagsire: Quagsire checks Tentacruel, Registeel, and Lanturn unless it's Toxic. That's about it.

C-
:Cradily: Cradily can switch into a normal type and get a free move in. But it doesn't get its good moves this gen. Can recover against the bands.

:Nidoqueen: Nidoqueen could fit in some teams as a status immune body slam paralysis spreader. Eq also gets some chip in.

:ninjask: Ninjask can work as speed control, but its only place is vs offense in late game

:Electabuzz: Electabuzz and Pikachu are fast electric types but there's better options to work around water types. Still usable regardless

Unranked

:Trapinch: Trapinch is almost useless now. It still has Registeel and Alakazam over Diglett most of the time, but it's not worth an entire slot for that.

free-trash-can-icon-svg-download-png-2727406.png
Grumpig is genuinely unbuildable garbage. Some ZU Pokemon are literally better options than this fat pig




Some sample teams by me, adjusted after more people looked at them:


Semistall plus normal breakers
:Dodrio: :Dusclops: :Umbreon: :Omastar: :Donphan: :Miltank:

https://pokepast.es/e13c6b92246692d5

Double leech seed
:Sceptile: :Vaporeon: :Venusaur: :Omastar: :Misdreavus: :Miltank:

https://pokepast.es/0094639630727018

Spikeless offense
:Dodrio: :Vaporeon: :Alakazam: :Donphan: :Dragonite: :Registeel:

https://pokepast.es/0ade009d057a1783

Lanturn defense (you may want to consider replacing weezing with another normal resist like Registeel)
:Lanturn: :Weezing: :Dragonite: :Armaldo: :Houndoom: :Chansey:

https://pokepast.es/3124a76af3513db4
 
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