Tournaments ADVLTL I Format Discussion

I am a firm believer in bo3 Doubles, and the inclusion of Doubles in the tour as a whole.

ADV Doubles by nature just has a good bit of rng involved, unlike singles coming back from an untimely crit is wayyy more difficult, thanks to the lower amount of turns + zapdos 2HKOing most mons in the tier; so a tbolt crit = an ohko most of the time, with around the same amount of opportunities for this rng as the average singles battle. I cannot tell you how many times someone has either crit my zapdos through light screen, or how many times I’ve missed 3 hydro pumps in a row, or aerodactyl being the annoying piece of garbage it is flinching my +2/3 setup sweeper to death with rock slide LOL
ADV Doubles also has a ton of room for creativity (hp electric arc, agility metagross, hp bug on literally any phys attacker, etc) when it comes to building and the metagame has been developing a lot over the past few weeks/months thanks to doubles derby, so a bo3 environment gives more opportunity for weird sets/mons to shine and very entertaining to watch
ADV Doubles was also excluded from this year’s ADVPL, and the only other tours we have that include adv dou are doubles derby (a team tour with an extremely high barrier to entry thanks to the single adv slot on each team), the invitational for winning one of the dou cups, and adv dou cup, so we are somewhat lacking in tours that players of the tier can play in.
I love this tier to bits and I really wish it got more representation in the adv community, bc right now I feel people are dismissing it thanks to the ban on explosion making the tier “boring to watch” and “bland”, (both not true imo but tbf I have a ton of bias towards this topic of discussion)
I really do not care for orre colo and it is inferior to doubles imo, but there is a big enough community for it to have a slot in the tour, and (preferably) have them both here.
TL;DR make adv dou bo3 and maybeee have it along side orre, not replacing it.
 
couple things here

DOU should be swapped with Orre. Meta is dead and nobody wants to play it since Explosion got banned.

Rand Bats should 100% be Bo3

ADV Tradebacks has no place in this tier as Solomods/petmods completely defeat the point of this tournement.

ADV 200 is definitely worth considering over something like Randbats, RU, UU, LC, Etc. Im not entirely sure what the playerbase is like but if it's anything that could garner interest cutting a Tier that's been included in its Home metas PL and ADVPL would fit the actual narrative of this tournement.
 
have Orre instead of Doubles. Consider Draft over Rands. Rands is cool but I’d like to see how Draft does in one of these tours and it’d be cool to include it here. I like Rands but it’s unfortunately the only one of the remaining tiers that can reasonably be cut for Draft, and you def don’t want 12 slots with six teams so gotta keep it at 10.

Other than that mostly subscribe to what BP said
 
Genuine discussion time.

Orre Col > LC
200 > Rands

Gotta leave the Lower Tiers Alone so i wanna cut the two tiers that shouldnt be here.
Doubles stays. Yall are downright abusive to it for no real reason. Its a good format, maybe try it out sometime.
Orre Col has a ton of support behind it, and doesnt have much overlap with the Doubles playerbase.
200 is this months roa spotlight and this type of tour is perfect for it considering its playerbase is already kinda part of the overall adv sphere.

LC should be cut due to having a little bit of overlap and tbh i dont think LC deserves a slot more than Orre, DOU, or 200 does, plus it gets a ton of tours anyways.
Rands should be cut because like, cmon.

Bo3 for every single tier as a base would be nice as who doesnt want more games? Also this tour is made to like, spotlight the other tiers. How can we do that with so little games smhsmh.
 
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I much prefer Orre to DOU and think that there is enough community support behind it to warrant inclusion.
However, I do think it would be a little weird for Smogon's doubles format to not get included in this tournament for the reasons Politoad listed.
I agree with Soda_Esti's reasoning for 200 as well.

I cannot speak to LC or other formats on the list of 10 in the OP, but with multiple valid competitive options and not enough slots I'd suggest cutting randoms. If LC isn't deemed viable or has enough inclusion in other Smogon tournaments I would say that it and rands should be replaced with Orre and 200. If not, then I would cut randoms still and propose including Orre instead, although I do think Orre/DOU/200 competing over two available spots warrants discusison.
 
BP said:
DOU should be swapped with Orre. Meta is dead and nobody wants to play it since Explosion got banned.
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not really true, ADV DOU is relatively popping and had a good showing in the doubles derby that just finished. Orre is sick too and with all the positive reception it's getting it should get a slot no doubt, but DOU still has a solid playerbase that stands on its own and is perfectly capable of delivering quality games especially in a 6-team environment.

ADVDOU also already got cut from like fucking everywhere other than Derby so I really think it'd be nice to have it feature in a tournament like this. Ultimately there's like seven million tiers worth inclusion and Orre seems to be more popular and if there's no space for DOU that's understandable, but it would still suck and the meta is not "dead" (boom ban was dumb tho)
 
Does the Core Metagames list apply to Gen 3? The more I think about it, the more odd its seems to include almost all of the Core lower tier formats but possibly exclude one or two others. If those Core Metagames listed on that section of Smogon applies to ADV I think that, based on the initial list proposed in the OP, those 7 cores plus UUBL (given how extensive the UUBL tier is in ADV) should be locks for a lower tier league with discussion being around filling the last two slots.

I come from the Orre community myself, but the more I think about it the more uncomfortable I am with most of the suggestions so far being to include Orre at the exclusion of DOU. Orre has a large and active enough community and a strong enough metagame to warrant inclusion on its own merits without the conversation needing to be immediately jumping to targeting another format, let alone one that might be considered a Core meta on a list full of all the other Cores. I get that both are doubles formats so it makes sense to compare the two; is everyone acting on an unspoken or outside precedent that this LTL only include one doubles format?
 
I would of course support a gen 3 random battle slot, but I might be the most biased person in the room. My perspective is this:

Upside: Gen 3 rands is probably one of the most played tiers of gen 3 other than OU. It also does not have a slot in any other tournament series that I know of outside of the random battles community, and if there would be one place to do so, it would be this tournament.

Downside: It's still random battles, and would be the only slot not having to prepare, draft or scout, which could end up making this slot feel pretty isolated from the rest of the formats.

Personally would be hyped to see its inclusion, but I think the arguments against it are also pretty reasonable. But as I stated before, if it were to ever be included anywhere it would probably be here.
 
I think having ADV DOU and Orre Colosseum both in the tournament, if possible, would make a lot of sense. One of the common complaints you'll hear from the other tier slots in these tournaments is that they can't really help the doubles slot and they're on an island. Conversely, as a doubles player who has played in tournaments like ADVPL, ORASPL, SMPL etc in the past, I feel like I'm basically playing an individual tournament with all the pressure of team tour expectations tagged on. It would be pretty nice to have similar formats in the tour from a player experience because the two tiers are similar enough that any player good enough to be drafted for one can support the other, and managers no longer have to do the annoying 3k doubles support thing.

The tiers are mechanically unique enough (see below) in a lot of ways that it won't be close to doubling up (no pun intended) on the same meta, but I think having both in this tournament would greatly improve the experience of each, so please consider having them both included.

DOU:
-Mythicals legal (Celebi is the big one here)
-No team preview, dedicated lead metagame
-6v6
-No item clause

Orre:
-Team Preview, potential for OTS
-4v4
-Lati twins & boom legal
-Item Clause
 
I think ADV 200 and Draft would be cool additions to the format as they don't see play pretty much anywhere in team tournaments
 
Alright I got 8 reacts on my last post which is low effort so let's see how many I get on this slightly higher effort one

I'm in favor of cutting both RU and NU from this tour because of their inclusion in ADVPL and the monumental amount of support they receive from their home tiers respectively. Both of these metagames are included in like 3-4 different tours within their home tiers alone. Moreover this allows for a more dynamic and newer tournement to form. These two slots open up Orre AND DOU inclusion. For the remaining slot I'm heavily in favor of Draft or ADV 200. Randbats is also cuttable but not preferred as randbats is just low effort and an easy flex slot for managers.


My Ideal format (looks gross now that I've put it here)

6 Teams, 10 Slots
ADV Ubers
ADV UUBL
ADV UU
ADV Draft
ADV Randbats (bo3) / 200
ADV PU
ADV ZU
ADV LC
ADV DOU
ADV Orre

If anything gets cut I think UU and Ubers are uncuttable as they are the "epitome" of Lower Tiers. I'd also like to disagree that Hoenn Gaiden and other PM/SM's should be included. I think slotting those over other "unofficial" lower tiers is goofy.

EDIT: NVM my format is turbo garbage GL

Drop Randbats for Orre and find some way to slot Draft
 
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I do not think orre should replace doubles ou they both offer something different and unique and doubles ou was already cut from advpl. It would be nice to see the two alongside each other.

Also I disagree that the explosion ban makes DOU boring, I personally hate explosion in doubles.

Orre is also a good format but I’d include it over randoms not DOU.
 
This is going to be called ADVLTL and not ADVOMLP, so in my opinion, petmods and similar things shouldn’t be included. Similarly, the two original low tiers (Ubers and UU) should always be part of the lineup.


Regarding the Doubles format, I prefer Orre, but we could include both if it works out. I don’t think overlap is an issue, since Orre has a solid playerbase on its own, and with boom ban now they are more separate, so there’s more room for both.


A good format would be the next one:

ADV Ubers
ADV UUBL
ADV UU
ADV Draft
RS 200
ADV PU /ADV DOU /ADV RU
ADV ZU
ADV LC /ADV DOU /ADV RU
ADV Orre
ADV NU/ADV DOU /ADV RU
 
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Lhions said:
This is going to be called ADVLTL and not ADVOMLP, so in my opinion, petmods and similar things shouldn’t be included. Similarly, the two original low tiers (Ubers and UU) should always be part of the lineup.


Regarding the Doubles format, I prefer Orre, but we could include both if it works out. I don’t think overlap is an issue, since Orre has a solid playerbase on its own, and with boom ban now they are more separate, so there’s more room for both.


A good format would be the next one:

ADV Ubers
ADV UUBL
ADV UU
ADV Draft
RS 200
ADV PU /ADV DOU
ADV ZU
ADV LC
ADV Orre
ADV NU/ADV DOU
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Generally agree with a lot of the sentiment, but my mate you forgot ADV RU in the next ones format even as a slash tier. IMO RU is the most fun ADV lower tier atm, but regardless of my personal opinion it’s also very popular and should definitely be included in any iteration.
 
BigFatMantis said:
Generally agree with a lot of the sentiment, but my mate you forgot ADV RU in the next ones format even as a slash tier. IMO RU is the most fun ADV lower tier atm, but regardless of my personal opinion it’s also very popular and should definitely be included in any iteration.
Click to expand...
yeah, mb
 
Love seeing gen 3 rands getting some love!

I will say it should absolutely be bo3 or bo5 to minimise matchup bs which can happen all to often in rands.

It's always fun when communities overlap too, I will def sign up for the slot should the decision makers choose to include it!
 
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