Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Congratulations to Arushi for winning this weeks VotW with their Zygarde submission. GarbodorIsHot and Velvet Blood came tied second for their sets this week. Hall of Fame entries and Leaderboards have been updated here.
This is a counter, Kyogre literally cannot touch Ferrothorn outside of CM/Spout. Leech + Leftovers allows you to heal off virtually all the damage Kyogre deals (it becomes a 5HKO or 4HKO 21% of the time) - Protect allows you to infinitely wall it, furthermore Leech Seed allows you to chip it helping to put it in range for a KO for another pokemon. Ferrothorn can just switch into Kyogre and proceed to either lay hazards or just spam leech seed annoying all switchins and in general being a huge nuisance for the other team. Gyro/Power Whip can be used, doesn't really matter with the Kyogre set given above, Power Whip is more useful for CM + Spout/Specs sets.
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 123-144 (34.9 - 40.9%) -- 21.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery and Leech Seed recovery - this doesn't account for protect, with protect Kyogre cannot break ferrothorn
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 90-106 (25.5 - 30.1%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery and Leech Seed recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (102 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4- Def Kyogre-Primal: 63-75 (18.4 - 21.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leech Seed damage
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4- Def Kyogre-Primal: 296-350 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Definitely not a mon you see too often. Even with the powerful Choice Specs set; spam ice beam until opponent gets frozen etc. etc. much skill, Kyurem-White is hardly noticed or touched by 99% of competitive AG players. Though when it comes to countering Kyogre-Primal, this mon is pretty much one of the best at doing it
Resists Water
Resists Electric
Can not be frozen
Can recover any damage off with Roost and Leftovers
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-White in Heavy Rain: 135-160 (29.8 - 35.3%)
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-White: 100-118 (22 - 26%)
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-White: 60-71 (13.2 - 15.6%)
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Kyurem-White in Heavy Rain: 107-126 (23.6 - 27.8%)
yea only way to kill this is to -def drop 19 times or thunder then get 23 paras, gg
SM's Pet Slug (Gastrodon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Confide
- Earth Power
- Recover
- Toxic
Is it viable? Big fucking yes. Gastrodon takes Origin Pulse and Liquidation like they're nothing (literally) and with an immunity to Thunder as well, that really leaves its only option as Ice Beam, which Gastrodon also takes close to nothing from. And to add insult to injury, even IF Gastrodon is frozen, it'll be a while before Kyogre kills it, assuming it isn't dead to Toxic damage before then.
Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
this shit gets rocks so that's a reason to use this over gastro, eq means it doesn't get trapped by m gar, rest is recovery to wall pogre and Toxic is to wear Pogre down + anything that thinks it can switch in to this. Pogre's Ice Beam is a 4hko due to max hp and spdef, so it can reliably keep resting against Pogre while it gets worn down by Toxic. No CM on this Pogre variant means that it doesn't have to worry about Pogre setting up, so I declare this Pokémon a counter for this particular Pogre set. Calcs below:
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Seismitoad: 119-141 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Seismitoad Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyogre-Primal: 112-133 (32.8 - 39%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
So dry skin means that heliolisk heals 1/8 every turn from rain and also acts as water absorb for kyogres stab water moves.
Heliolisk cannot be para'd and eerie impulse connects with kyogre all heliolisk needs to do is substitue
An alternative set could use a Aspear Berry and protect to guarentee an eerie impulse into substitute turn 1 resulting in the kyogre not being able to break the heliolisks substitute and just protect subing thundering until the kyogre is dead.
Heliolisk outspeeds kyogre and will go first and eerie impulse.
Calcs after eerie impulse
-2 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 152+ SpD Heliolisk: 57-68 (17.3 - 20.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
- 0 SpA Heliolisk Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 168-200 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (otherwise)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An alternative set could use a maranga berry and charge however it is possible to get frozen turn 1, the odds are still extreamely slim with dry skin recovery after the charge +spdef boost and the maranga berry spdef boost but I guess its still possible to lose.
Even if it is frozen ice beam will be doing between 17.3 - 20.7% each subsiquent turn which will mean actually killing heliolisk whilst dry skin recovery is taking place is extrodinary.
Before charge and maranga berry:
- 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 152+ SpD Heliolisk: 113-134 (34.4 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Dry Skin recovery
After charge and maranga berry
- 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. +2 252 HP / 152+ SpD Heliolisk: 57-68 (17.3 - 20.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
- +2 0 SpA Heliolisk Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 338-398 (99.1 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (if turn after charge)
- 0 SpA Heliolisk Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 168-200 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (otherwise)
- +2 0 SpA Heliolisk Parabolic Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 200-236 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Definitely not a mon you see too often. Even with the powerful Choice Specs set; spam ice beam until opponent gets frozen etc. etc. much skill, Kyurem-White is hardly noticed or touched by 99% of competitive AG players. Though when it comes to countering Kyogre-Primal, this mon is pretty much one of the best at doing it
Resists Water
Resists Electric
Can not be frozen
Can recover any damage off with Roost and Leftovers
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-White in Heavy Rain: 135-160 (29.8 - 35.3%)
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-White: 100-118 (22 - 26%)
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-White: 60-71 (13.2 - 15.6%)
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Kyurem-White in Heavy Rain: 107-126 (23.6 - 27.8%)
yea only way to kill this is to -def drop 19 times or thunder then get 23 paras, gg
So Primal-Ogre is the second hardest Pokémon in the game to truly counter (the first being Smeargle, which is truly impossible to counter). Primal-Ogre is just so strong with rain-boosted Water-type attacks, as well as it’s very strong Ice- and Electric-type coverage attacks. On top of all that, it could viably be running physical or mixed sets, Toxic, or Rest Talk CM to beat anything that tried to counter one set of course it could just freeze/Sheer Cold everything too goddammit. Essentially everything is just a check until the set is fully revealed. Being we have knowledge of this Primal-Ogre’s set (expert-level scouting!), allow me to introduce LOKB.
Japanese Denim (Kyurem-Black) @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Roost
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power / Hidden Power [Fire]
One of the most powerful of OU balance-breakers makes an appearance as an offensive check to one of the most powerful of AG wall-breakers. Big, bad Black-Kyurem is a monster, with a meaty base 125/100/90 defensive spread. Kyurem-Black resists Water- and Electric-type attacks and cannot be frozen by Ice Beam or hit by fucking Sheer Cold. Kyurem-Black is able to directly switch-in once (1) to a Primal-Ogre attack, out-speed, and scare it out.
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black in Heavy Rain: 207-243 (52.9 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (ez pz)
4 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyogre-Primal: 364-429 (106.7 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kyurem-Black does all this while threatening all of its supposed switch-ins:
4 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 242-286 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 749-889 (117.7 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 153-183 (34.5 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 307-367 (69.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 361-429 (102.8 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Groudon-Primal: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Steel: 205-244 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 208-250 (59 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-Black: 306-361 (78.2 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So dry skin means that heliolisk heals 1/8 every turn from rain and also acts as water absorb for kyogres stab water moves.
Heliolisk cannot be para'd and eerie impulse connects with kyogre all heliolisk needs to do is substitue
An alternative set could use a Aspear Berry and protect to guarentee an eerie impulse into substitute turn 1 resulting in the kyogre not being able to break the heliolisks substitute and just protect subing thundering until the kyogre is dead.
Heliolisk outspeeds kyogre and will go first and eerie impulse.
Calcs after eerie impulse
-2 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 152+ SpD Heliolisk: 57-68 (17.3 - 20.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
- 0 SpA Heliolisk Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 168-200 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (otherwise)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An alternative set could use a maranga berry and charge however it is possible to get frozen turn 1, the odds are still extreamely slim with dry skin recovery after the charge +spdef boost and the maranga berry spdef boost but I guess its still possible to lose.
Even if it is frozen ice beam will be doing between 17.3 - 20.7% each subsiquent turn which will mean actually killing heliolisk whilst dry skin recovery is taking place is extrodinary.
Before charge and maranga berry:
- 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 152+ SpD Heliolisk: 113-134 (34.4 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Dry Skin recovery
After charge and maranga berry
- 252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. +2 252 HP / 152+ SpD Heliolisk: 57-68 (17.3 - 20.7%) -- possibly the worst move ever
- +2 0 SpA Heliolisk Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 338-398 (99.1 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (if turn after charge)
- 0 SpA Heliolisk Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 168-200 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (otherwise)
- +2 0 SpA Heliolisk Parabolic Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 200-236 (58.6 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
this shit gets rocks so that's a reason to use this over gastro, eq means it doesn't get trapped by m gar, rest is recovery to wall pogre and Toxic is to wear Pogre down + anything that thinks it can switch in to this. Pogre's Ice Beam is a 4hko due to max hp and spdef, so it can reliably keep resting against Pogre while it gets worn down by Toxic. No CM on this Pogre variant means that it doesn't have to worry about Pogre setting up, so I declare this Pokémon a counter for this particular Pogre set. Calcs below:
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Seismitoad: 119-141 (28.8 - 34.1%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Seismitoad Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyogre-Primal: 112-133 (32.8 - 39%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
This project has the objective of building an archive of checks and counters and has had this rule since the beginning. If you aren't going to follow them please do not post at all. If the thread is made into a joke of meme sets it will inevitably end.
Since everyone is posting their meme check I thought I would post mine
The first thing of note is ludicolo's grass/water typing allows it to 4x resist kyogre's water attacks while staying in neutral damage range for Thunder and ice beam.
The best move kyogre has against ludicolo is Thunder but once leech seed is up ludicolo can heal up all damage by protecting the next turn
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ludicolo: 133-157 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Rain Dish recovery, Leftovers recovery, and Leech Seed recovery
But if you need to kill kyogre quickly
4 SpA Ludicolo Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 158-188 (46.3 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leech Seed damage
I don’t think much needs to be said here. This thing checks POgre pretty reliably, coming in on anything but ice beam on a good read, or just coming in for free at some point and one-shotting it with dragon ascent. So yeah. MRay is really good. What else is new?
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Confide
- Heal Bell
- Toxic
It walls, it stalls, and when I face it I end up consuming massive amounts of alcohol. BlissTina/ChansTina was a classic back in generation six, and it's a fun niche pick to use occasionally but has dropped down in usage due to Mega Gengar, so Blissey is generally preferred. Just maybe pair this with shuca Tyranitar and hope the Mega Gengar doesn't have substitute (it does).
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 229-271 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 261-307 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 195-229 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 34.1% chance to 3HKO
Oh, and don't let rocks go up. But if you're using a Chansey you're probably using some form of degenerate trash stall, so hopefully that shouldn't be an issue. And don't get crit. Or a defense drop from liquidation. Something is telling me that this is an atrocious pick. Why didn't I pick Primal Groudon.
Vote for Chansey because I need the prize money so I can feed my starving family of five. I'm a very desperate man.
This project has the objective of building an archive of checks and counters and has had this rule since the beginning. If you aren't going to follow them please do not post at all. If the thread is made into a joke of meme sets it will inevitably end.
Ok im unsure how tf this has stayed but reserving pdon
Ok im here now yippee
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
-filler
-filler
-filler
This is a COUNTER. It comes in, either blocks water, or takes an ice beam comfortably, then promptly kills
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 4- Def Kyogre-Primal: 333-393 (97.6 - 115.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Groudon-Primal: 117-138 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
^official
meme check of the day:
Groudon @ Choice Band
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
-filler
This lunala set can check pretty much any variant of Primal Kyogre barring rest calm mind variants by using toxic and then spamming roost to reactivate its shadow shield. The Evs ensure that roost+lefties puts you back up to full after taking a full Hp water spout, and the speed makes you faster than 252 +spe ogre/pdon.
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 216 HP / 92 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala in Heavy Rain: 223-263 (47.5 - 56%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 216 HP / 92 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala in Heavy Rain: 164-193 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- 69.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Shadow Shield Lunala in Heavy Rain: 141-166 (30 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 94-112 (27.5 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 Atk Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyogre-Primal: 434-512 (127.2 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Kyogre-Primal Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zekrom: 228-270 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zekrom: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
you can switch in freely (make sure u dont get frozen thoooo!), you have recovery, you can ohko the POgre any time you want.
Toxic + Fog is cool too but we dont rlly need that to check this POgre set.
I dont think I have to explain much owo
edit: its a counter I guess, since you can reliably switch in and recover your HP back.
This is literally a copy paste
Arceus-Dragon @ Draco Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Recover
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp / Filler
Dragonceus resists Water STAB, outspeeds Kyogre, and doesn't get 2HKOed by Ice Beam, while it can slowly whittle Kyogre down with Judgment or if it carries it, Toxic.
0 SpA Draco Plate Arceus-Dragon Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 102-120 (29.9 - 35.1%) -- 16.1% chance to 3HKO
0- SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dragon: 168-198 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dragon: 168-198 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Palkia @ Psychium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Block
- Thunder
- Spacial Rend
- Surf
Palkia completely walls any Pogre set whether it's physical or not.
Heal Block to block Pogre from resting smh I won't let you win CM Pogre.
Also, Z Heal block boosts your SpA stat to +2 letting you OHKO Pogre very easily.
Here are some calcs:
+2 252 SpA Palkia Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 354-418 (103.8 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Palkia Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal in Heavy Rain: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Palkia Spacial Rend vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 241-285 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia in Heavy Rain: 48-57 (14.9 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia in Heavy Rain: 73-87 (22.7 - 27.1%) -- 45.3% chance to 4HKO
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. -2 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia in Heavy Rain: 97-115 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 38.8% chance to 3HKO
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. -6 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia in Heavy Rain: 195-229 (60.7 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO LMAO NOOB
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Palkia: 118-139 (36.7 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Palkia: 144-170 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Palkia in Heavy Rain: 81-95 (25.2 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
I'm too lazy to make a set invested on SpD to check that Thunder even hard, so do it yourself and give me the vote. =.=
This project has the objective of building an archive of checks and counters and has had this rule since the beginning. If you aren't going to follow them please do not post at all. If the thread is made into a joke of meme sets it will inevitably end.
This is a counter, Kyogre literally cannot touch Ferrothorn outside of CM/Spout. Leech + Leftovers allows you to heal off virtually all the damage Kyogre deals (it becomes a 5HKO or 4HKO 21% of the time) - Protect allows you to infinitely wall it, furthermore Leech Seed allows you to chip it helping to put it in range for a KO for another pokemon. Ferrothorn can just switch into Kyogre and proceed to either lay hazards or just spam leech seed annoying all switchins and in general being a huge nuisance for the other team. Gyro/Power Whip can be used, doesn't really matter with the Kyogre set given above, Power Whip is more useful for CM + Spout/Specs sets.
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 123-144 (34.9 - 40.9%) -- 21.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery and Leech Seed recovery - this doesn't account for protect, with protect Kyogre cannot break ferrothorn
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 90-106 (25.5 - 30.1%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery and Leech Seed recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (102 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4- Def Kyogre-Primal: 63-75 (18.4 - 21.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leech Seed damage
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 4- Def Kyogre-Primal: 296-350 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Definitely not a mon you see too often. Even with the powerful Choice Specs set; spam ice beam until opponent gets frozen etc. etc. much skill, Kyurem-White is hardly noticed or touched by 99% of competitive AG players. Though when it comes to countering Kyogre-Primal, this mon is pretty much one of the best at doing it
Resists Water
Resists Electric
Can not be frozen
Can recover any damage off with Roost and Leftovers
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-White in Heavy Rain: 135-160 (29.8 - 35.3%)
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-White: 100-118 (22 - 26%)
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-White: 60-71 (13.2 - 15.6%)
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Kyurem-White in Heavy Rain: 107-126 (23.6 - 27.8%)
yea only way to kill this is to -def drop 19 times or thunder then get 23 paras, gg
Reserving Kyurem-Black :p
So Primal-Ogre is the second hardest Pokémon in the game to truly counter (the first being Smeargle, which is truly impossible to counter). Primal-Ogre is just so strong with rain-boosted Water-type attacks, as well as it’s very strong Ice- and Electric-type coverage attacks. On top of all that, it could viably be running physical or mixed sets, Toxic, or Rest Talk CM to beat anything that tried to counter one set of course it could just freeze/Sheer Cold everything too goddammit. Essentially everything is just a check until the set is fully revealed. Being we have knowledge of this Primal-Ogre’s set (expert-level scouting!), allow me to introduce LOKB.
Japanese Denim (Kyurem-Black) @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Roost
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power / Hidden Power [Fire]
One of the most powerful of OU balance-breakers makes an appearance as an offensive check to one of the most powerful of AG wall-breakers. Big, bad Black-Kyurem is a monster, with a meaty base 125/100/90 defensive spread. Kyurem-Black resists Water- and Electric-type attacks and cannot be frozen by Ice Beam or hit by fucking Sheer Cold. Kyurem-Black is able to directly switch-in once (1) to a Primal-Ogre attack, out-speed, and scare it out.
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black in Heavy Rain: 207-243 (52.9 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (ez pz)
4 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyogre-Primal: 364-429 (106.7 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kyurem-Black does all this while threatening all of its supposed switch-ins:
4 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 242-286 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 749-889 (117.7 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 153-183 (34.5 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 307-367 (69.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza-Mega in Strong Winds: 361-429 (102.8 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Groudon-Primal: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Steel: 205-244 (46.1 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 208-250 (59 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Kyurem-Black: 306-361 (78.2 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Since everyone is posting their meme check I thought I would post mine
The first thing of note is ludicolo's grass/water typing allows it to 4x resist kyogre's water attacks while staying in neutral damage range for Thunder and ice beam.
The best move kyogre has against ludicolo is Thunder but once leech seed is up ludicolo can heal up all damage by protecting the next turn
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ludicolo: 133-157 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Rain Dish recovery, Leftovers recovery, and Leech Seed recovery
But if you need to kill kyogre quickly
4 SpA Ludicolo Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 158-188 (46.3 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leech Seed damage
I don’t think much needs to be said here. This thing checks POgre pretty reliably, coming in on anything but ice beam on a good read, or just coming in for free at some point and one-shotting it with dragon ascent. So yeah. MRay is really good. What else is new?
I nominate this fat piece of shit Chansey.
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Confide
- Heal Bell
- Toxic
It walls, it stalls, and when I face it I end up consuming massive amounts of alcohol. BlissTina/ChansTina was a classic back in generation six, and it's a fun niche pick to use occasionally but has dropped down in usage due to Mega Gengar, so Blissey is generally preferred. Just maybe pair this with shuca Tyranitar and hope the Mega Gengar doesn't have substitute (it does).
252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 229-271 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 261-307 (40.6 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Heavy Rain: 195-229 (30.3 - 35.6%) -- 34.1% chance to 3HKO
Oh, and don't let rocks go up. But if you're using a Chansey you're probably using some form of degenerate trash stall, so hopefully that shouldn't be an issue. And don't get crit. Or a defense drop from liquidation. Something is telling me that this is an atrocious pick. Why didn't I pick Primal Groudon.
Vote for Chansey because I need the prize money so I can feed my starving family of five. I'm a very desperate man.
Ok im unsure how tf this has stayed but reserving pdon
Ok im here now yippee
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
-filler
-filler
-filler
This is a COUNTER. It comes in, either blocks water, or takes an ice beam comfortably, then promptly kills
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 4- Def Kyogre-Primal: 333-393 (97.6 - 115.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Groudon-Primal: 117-138 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
^official
meme check of the day:
Groudon @ Choice Band
Ability: Drought
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
-filler
This lunala set can check pretty much any variant of Primal Kyogre barring rest calm mind variants by using toxic and then spamming roost to reactivate its shadow shield. The Evs ensure that roost+lefties puts you back up to full after taking a full Hp water spout, and the speed makes you faster than 252 +spe ogre/pdon.
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 216 HP / 92 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala in Heavy Rain: 223-263 (47.5 - 56%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 216 HP / 92 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala in Heavy Rain: 164-193 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- 69.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Shadow Shield Lunala in Heavy Rain: 141-166 (30 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 94-112 (27.5 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
damn, I really wanted to submit Zygarde 3 times in a row :(. Anyway, heres a cooler dragon:
4 Atk Teravolt Zekrom Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyogre-Primal: 434-512 (127.2 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Kyogre-Primal Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zekrom: 228-270 (56.4 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zekrom: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
you can switch in freely (make sure u dont get frozen thoooo!), you have recovery, you can ohko the POgre any time you want.
Toxic + Fog is cool too but we dont rlly need that to check this POgre set.
I dont think I have to explain much owo
edit: its a counter I guess, since you can reliably switch in and recover your HP back.
This is literally a copy paste
Arceus-Dragon @ Draco Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Recover
- Judgment
- Will-O-Wisp / Filler
Dragonceus resists Water STAB, outspeeds Kyogre, and doesn't get 2HKOed by Ice Beam, while it can slowly whittle Kyogre down with Judgment or if it carries it, Toxic.
0 SpA Draco Plate Arceus-Dragon Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 102-120 (29.9 - 35.1%) -- 16.1% chance to 3HKO
0- SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dragon: 168-198 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0- SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Dragon: 168-198 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Palkia @ Psychium Z
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Block
- Thunder
- Spacial Rend
- Surf
Palkia completely walls any Pogre set whether it's physical or not.
Heal Block to block Pogre from resting smh I won't let you win CM Pogre.
Also, Z Heal block boosts your SpA stat to +2 letting you OHKO Pogre very easily.
Here are some calcs:
+2 252 SpA Palkia Thunder vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 354-418 (103.8 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Palkia Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal in Heavy Rain: 162-192 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Palkia Spacial Rend vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 241-285 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia in Heavy Rain: 48-57 (14.9 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia in Heavy Rain: 73-87 (22.7 - 27.1%) -- 45.3% chance to 4HKO
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. -2 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia in Heavy Rain: 97-115 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 38.8% chance to 3HKO
4 Atk Kyogre-Primal Liquidation vs. -6 0 HP / 0 Def Palkia in Heavy Rain: 195-229 (60.7 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO LMAO NOOB
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Palkia: 118-139 (36.7 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Thunder vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Palkia: 144-170 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Palkia in Heavy Rain: 81-95 (25.2 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
I'm too lazy to make a set invested on SpD to check that Thunder even hard, so do it yourself and give me the vote. =.=
1. AGL (Best-Ogre-Counter-in-the-Game™ for a reason)
2. Write-in: Game Moderator (Slug is widely agreed upon to be good in AG)
3. Icemaster (Can get frozen)
