Aggron: Discussion

[Yoko Rains]

I'm not saying Aggron should compete with Rhyperior, just saying that it could be capable of doing its job to a lower extent in lower tiers.

And dude (cornflake), I'd highly appreciate if you can please keep your personal opinions (that are off topic) to yourself, this thread seems to be going more toward accusing me, and less toward the topic. If a mod sees this, go ahead and lock it if you want.

Thanks again for the help with tiers Dragontamer.

 

[cornflake]

Hmm...Aggron 121.92 112.14 125.59 117.82Rhyperior 121.78 114.36 125.45 119.77

Actually, as far as defense tiers go, aggron is better by .24 tiers. Translated to a more recognized form... that means, Aggron takes 2.3% less damage than Rhyperior does to similar attacks.

You have to take weaknesses into account. Aggron is taking 4x from Fighting and Ground while Rhyperior is taking 2x.

As for the OP, this discussion was flawed from the beginning as you had no real reasoning as to your point.

 

[Yoko Rains]

My reasoning is all in the first post of the thread. And Rhyperior has 4x weakness to Water and Grass, don't forget. May not be as bad as Ground and Fighting, but still pretty bad.

 

[cornflake]

Yes but Grass and Water are so fucking easy to predict.

Whereas Fighting attacks are often 'snuck on' pokes to surprise walls etc.

 

[Yoko Rains]

Not always, there are mixed sweepers out there (I don't know about water, but grass yes). Abomasnow utilizes both of its STAB's in its mixed set (Blizzard and Wood Hammer).

And thats why I'm saying Aggron should be able to pull off some tanking in the UU environment, not OU.

 

[Boxes]

No hell no, good defense but HELL NO, lol, it has 4x weakness, with ry's abilty, it has none.

 

[Yoko Rains]

[sarcasm] But Rhyperior is immune to everything right? [/sarcasm]

I'm not directly comparing Aggron with Rhyperior (explaining this for the 100th time in this thread). I'm saying that Aggron could be capable of, to a much lower extent, play Rhyperiors role somewhat in UU. I know that he won't be very usable in OU.

 

[Kingdrom]

You say "to an extent". Aggron, while it has slightly better typing, still falls to Quagsire, Primape, and the three Hitmons in UU.

One of Aggron's merits is Focus Sash+Metal Burst, while it only works once, works decently (especially in the battle tower). Otherwise Aggron plays Rhyperior's role in UU quite fine- trying to tank while being bait for any pokemon using a SE special attack.

 

[imgty]

aggron have endeavor, so he is defenately not the UU of rhyperior

 

[Yoko Rains]

@ Kingdrom, yeah what you say makes sense. It still could damage those guys somewhat though with its STAB moves =/

@ imgty, ....what...?

 

[obi]

There isn't a problem with new people making threads if they are using it to ask a question rather than explain a strategy rooted in misconception, cornflake, and I have no idea what made you think otherwise.

Yoko Rains, part of the reason this topic hasn't been so successful is that you haven't defined what you consider Rhyperior's role to be.

One role is a Swords Dance sweeper. Obviously, Aggron can't fill this role because it doesn't have Swords Dance.

Another role is a CB sweeper (that can use resistances to come in). Aggron has its share of resistances, but they are oriented in such a way that most Pokemon that are resisted with one attack will hit it super effective with another attack. Moreover, Aggron has significantly less Attack. Rhyperior gets STAB EQ, one of the best STAB attacks to have, and can support this with STAB Rock and Megahorn, which together hit every Pokemon at least neutral (I'm pretty sure on this one). Aggron's STAB Steel is irrelevant because Steel sucks as an offensive type, especially when you have STAB Rock. Aggron does get Ice Punch instead of Avalanche, but Ice Punch off Aggron's Attack is (I think) weaker than Rhyperior's unboosted Avalanche.

 

[Yoko Rains]

There isn't a problem with new people making threads if they are using it to ask a question rather than explain a strategy rooted in misconception, cornflake, and I have no idea what made you think otherwise.

Yoko Rains, part of the reason this topic hasn't been so successful is that you haven't defined what you consider Rhyperior's role to be.

One role is a Swords Dance sweeper. Obviously, Aggron can't fill this role because it doesn't have Swords Dance.

Another role is a CB sweeper (that can use resistances to come in). Aggron has its share of resistances, but they are oriented in such a way that most Pokemon that are resisted with one attack will hit it super effective with another attack. Moreover, Aggron has significantly less Attack. Rhyperior gets STAB EQ, one of the best STAB attacks to have, and can support this with STAB Rock and Megahorn, which together hit every Pokemon at least neutral (I'm pretty sure on this one). Aggron's STAB Steel is irrelevant because Steel sucks as an offensive type, especially when you have STAB Rock. Aggron does get Ice Punch instead of Avalanche, but Ice Punch off Aggron's Attack is (I think) weaker than Rhyperior's unboosted Avalanche.

Hey Obi! Yeah I've listed most of that stuff on my first post (no Swords Dance, STAB EQ, Megahorn, etc etc).

As for Rhyperior's role, well in my view, he seems to be a tank. He takes some physical damage and dishes out some physical damage of his own.

Aggron has the ability to do that somewhat, just to a much lower extent.

And Steel doesn't really suck that much..I mean, Gross has Meteor Mash, and many people use that move. Its just that when compared with Rhyperior and his STAB's, it seems a lot less.

 

[Deck Knight]

And just as a note:

I like Aggron. I think its design is awesome, I think some of its potential is underutilized, but it has absolutely no comparison to Rhyperior as far as function.

My experience with Aggron has been one of its most useful moves is Thunder Wave. Rock/Steel is a weird type to be carrying Thunder Wave, and it catches most off balance even if they know Aggron can do it. Switching your sweeper into Aggron means you risk killing its speed (unless it's Golem for some reason.)

It can also Subpunch fairly well and STAB Stone Edge is a decent backup.

Hey Obi! Yeah I've listed most of that stuff on my first post (no Swords Dance, STAB EQ, Megahorn, etc etc).

As for Rhyperior's role, well in my view, he seems to be a tank. He takes some physical damage and dishes out some physical damage of his own.

Aggron has the ability to do that somewhat, just to a much lower extent.

And Steel doesn't really suck that much..I mean, Gross has Meteor Mash, and many people use that move. Its just that when compared with Rhyperior and his STAB's, it seems a lot less.

Groos has 130 Base Attack, 100 BP and STAB going for it. The reason it's decent on Groos is because it has so much power behind it that it can maul whatever it hits even if it resists (one good thing about Steel: nothing is immune to it). If it gets an Attack boost game over.

 

[Yoko Rains]

Oh yeah, I definitely know it is no comparison to Rhyperior.

But see, I'm not trying to ask whether Aggron can kick Rhyperior out of the #1 OU tank spot, I'm simply wondering/thinking if Aggron can be the Rhyperior of UU. And I honestly think it can, since there are quite few less threats in UU.

 

[Bam]

Still reading the rest, but I noticed you missed Power Whip.

 

[CWW]

Yeah, I had fun walling Curselax with Aggron in ADV. Or it had EQ and got walled by McGar. Also, random Blisseys without Seismic Tosses. You don't see these a lot anymore, except Obi's Blissey but Flamethrower will break Aggron's sub every time.

As for UU, it laughs at choice banded birds, but it can't do much against Ground types. Unless you make it Quiet with max SpA and Ice Beam/Blizzard/Surf to kill Golems and Sandslashes lol.

 

[Deck Knight]

Oh yeah, I definitely know it is no comparison to Rhyperior.

But see, I'm not trying to ask whether Aggron can kick Rhyperior out of the #1 OU tank spot, I'm simply wondering/thinking if Aggron can be the Rhyperior of UU. And I honestly think it can, since there are quite few less threats in UU.

But see, you didn't read the rest of my sentence which said "as far as function."

Aggron and Rhyperior are completely different. Aggron is a psuedo-support pokemon that makes great use of Thunder Wave, Toxic, Taunt, Endeavor and such, while having enough power to serve as a credible offensive threat in certain situations. Rhyperior is a wallbreaker with some level of tanking ability.

The only thing the two have in common is Rock typing and a few design elements.

Aggron causes more havoc in UU paralyzing things and Subbing on pokemon that can't immediately deal with it than it does trying to smash through things with Choice Banded attacks.

 

[cornflake]

Yoko I don't mean to bash you so don't get that impression. I just couldn't see the reasoning behind this discussion. You see, you ask if Aggron can serve as a UU Rhyperior but never defined what Rhyperior/Aggron is supposed to do. They both run very different sets at times so it's like comparing apples to oranges. Aggron will not, then, serve as a UU Rhyperior. If you're looking for a UU Rhyperior, look towards Golem.

 

[Yoko Rains]

Golem, hmm I'll check him out. Thanks for the advice cornflake.

Well, what I personally thought Rhyperior's job is is being a tank. Something that can take serious physical damage, and then retaliate with some lethal physical hits of its own. Thats what I think Rhyperior's job is.

And then seeing Aggron's similar stats, I thought it might be capable of doing the same thing, but to a much lower extent due to having not so great typing, etc.

I never thought for a second Aggron was on the same level as Rhyperior. But I definitely did consider Aggron to be Rhyperior's lesser counterpart in a way =/

 

[cornflake]

Well I was just using common sense as Golem and Rhydon were used interchangeably in RBY and Golem still retains Rhydon's basic abilities, but Rhydon went off and evolved.

 

[Yoko Rains]

Well your common sense makes sense, I kind of like Golem's base stats (not as much as I like Aggron though).

 

[cornflake]

computer's slow, mind posting Golem's base stats vs. Rhyperior's?

 

[Yoko Rains]

Sure, that shouldn't be a problem at all:

Golem:

HP: 80
Attack: 110
Defense: 130
Sp. Attack: 55
Sp. Defense: 65
Speed: 45

Rhyperior:

HP: 115
Attack: 140
Defense: 130
Sp. Attack: 55
Sp. Defense: 55
Speed: 40


They both have the same exact weaknesses.

Golem is basically an Aggron with lower defense, but better typing.

 

[cornflake]

Or rather a watered down version of Rhyperior, perfect for fulfilling his role in UU as a tank that dishes out some serious damage. Well, there you go. You've found your UU Rhyperior, after some debate, and everything works out.

 

[Yoko Rains]

Lol yeah, I guess you have a point there. Can Rhydon also work in UU? I hear someone mention him earlier on this thread. Would he even be considered a UU Pokemon? I don't really know how pre-evo's would fit into the tiers.