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Alakazam (Gen 4, Anti-Lead)

That's not true at all. No support option can kill Houndoom and Steelix, or do 50% damage to Umbreon / Registeel. The main reason I think a second attack should be slashed in alongside Taunt is that without one, Alakazam's usefulness is severely compromised outside of the lead position. That might sit well with some people, but not others, including me. And I personally would never run Taunt on a set like this, as I don't think it is worth sacrificing Alakazam just for that.
Counter OHKOs all 3 of them if they use any dark attack or Gyro Ball/EQ or Iron Head respectively.
 
That's not true at all. No support option can kill Houndoom and Steelix, or do 50% damage to Umbreon / Registeel. The main reason I think a second attack should be slashed in alongside Taunt is that without one, Alakazam's usefulness is severely compromised outside of the lead position. That might sit well with some people, but not others, including me. And I personally would never run Taunt on a set like this, as I don't think it is worth sacrificing Alakazam just for that.

70% to KO a Houndoom without Sucker Punch, deal decent damage to Umbreon and Registeel, and KO Steelix (which is irrelevant anyway because you can KO with Counter) over stopping Froslass from setting up Spikes? Good luck. Even if it had 100% accuracy, Taunt would still be superior. Encore is it's "out of lead position" move. It stops all set up sweepers just like that. Or you can try to Focus Blast Houndoom, and break it's sub 70% of the time. Of course the other 30% you're just going to lose Alakazam, and possibly more, but it seems "some people" (including you) would be OK with that.

You're going to need a lot more impressive facts to justify losing to the most dangerous lead in the metagame.
 
70% to KO a Houndoom without Sucker Punch (or on the switch?), deal decent damage to Umbreon and Registeel, and KO Steelix (which is irrelevant anyway because you can KO with Counter) over stopping Froslass from setting up Spikes? Good luck. Even if it had 100% accuracy, Taunt would still be superior. Encore is it's "out of lead position" move. It stops all set up sweepers just like that. Or you can try to Focus Blast Houndoom, and break it's sub 70% of the time. Of course the other 30% you're just going to lose Alakazam, and possibly more, but it seems "some people" (including you) would be OK with that.

You're going to need a lot more impressive facts to justify losing to the most dangerous lead in the metagame.

If the opponent is faced with this Alakazam as a lead, in a bad match-up, and has a Houndoom in the wings, they will bring it in for sure. This is because the Houndoom user has absolutely nothing to lose from doing this, and potentially everything to gain. With Focus Blast you completely remove that level of certainty for the opponent. For everything else, Focus Blast is good for when you are at 1HP or otherwise and they come in to finish you off. With only Psychic as an attack, you can't do much or anything back while they kill you, but with Focus Blast you stand a good chance of putting a sizeable dent in them before going down, which can be crucial in some situations. If everybody is so confident that Focus Blast is such a bad idea on lead Alakazam that nobody will carry it, then nobody will hesitate in bringing out their Houndoom or whatever else. Even with the moved slashed as an 'inferior' second option, it helps the set in general by making it more unpredictable in practice.

As for Froslass, I just use Psychic to 2HKO whenever I happen to come across one with Alakazam. If you want to take a giant risk with Taunt in order to prevent any layers of Spikes going down then fine, that's why Taunt is the main option. But that's certainly not the way I play; I'm not going to risk the very real threat of Shadow Ball + Ice Shard, or just Ice Beam to ruin my Sash, to use the highly predictable Taunt in order to possibly stop one poxy layer of Spikes, when I can just go for lots of guaranteed damage. You argue with percentages of failure, but I know for sure that 70% is greater than 50%. I never talked about slashing anything alongside Encore, so I don't know why you brought up that stuff about Sub Houndoom.
 
If the opponent is faced with this Alakazam as a lead, in a bad match-up, and has a Houndoom in the wings, they will bring it in for sure. This is because the Houndoom user has absolutely nothing to lose from doing this, and potentially everything to gain. With Focus Blast you completely remove that level of certainty for the opponent. For everything else, Focus Blast is good for when you are at 1HP or otherwise and they come in to finish you off. With only Psychic as an attack, you can't do much or anything back while they kill you, but with Focus Blast you stand a good chance of putting a sizeable dent in them before going down, which can be crucial in some situations. If everybody is so confident that Focus Blast is such a bad idea on lead Alakazam that nobody will carry it, then nobody will hesitate in bringing out their Houndoom or whatever else. Even with the moved slashed as an 'inferior' second option, it helps the set in general by making it more unpredictable in practice.

As for Froslass, I just use Psychic to 2HKO whenever I happen to come across one with Alakazam. If you want to take a giant risk with Taunt in order to prevent any layers of Spikes going down then fine, that's why Taunt is the main option. But that's certainly not the way I play; I'm not going to risk the very real threat of Shadow Ball + Ice Shard, or just Ice Beam to ruin my Sash, to use the highly predictable Taunt in order to possibly stop one poxy layer of Spikes, when I can just go for lots of guaranteed damage. You argue with percentages of failure, but I know for sure that 70% is greater than 50%. I never talked about slashing anything alongside Encore, so I don't know why you brought up that stuff about Sub Houndoom.

While this has devolved fully into pointless theorymon, I would reply that in the worst possible case, they switch to Houndoom, you use counter, if they use Dark Pulse/Fire Blast, you Encore, lessening prediction. If it's Fire Blast, for isntance, you can set up SD Gatr or Sub-Punch Azumarril as they threaten the switch with AJ.

Shadow Ball + Ice Shard is virtually non-existant. I faced it once with my zam lead and everyone seems to be using standard or proslass now. Even so, it won't get spikes out and there's a myriad of things that can set up on a Froslass that doesn't have taunt and doesn't pose the threat of spikes.
 
I sort of see what you're getting at, but it is still far too situational and inaccurate too be slashed imo. And I'm pretty sure saying "well it makes the set more unpredictable by putting this "inferior" move in the analysis" is really a terrible reason to add it in. In fact I think that goes against the whole point of all analyses. We are not trying to trick people into using Focus Blast some of the time in order to make one option more unpredictable. We are trying to give the readers the most accurate description and most viable move sets.

Also, you really underestimate Spikes. Stopping Spikes is one of the main reasons to use Alakazam.
 
I sort of see what you're getting at, but it is still far too situational and inaccurate too be slashed imo. And I'm pretty sure saying "well it makes the set more unpredictable by putting this "inferior" move in the analysis" is really a terrible reason to add it in. In fact I think that goes against the whole point of all analyses. We are not trying to trick people into using Focus Blast some of the time in order to make one option more unpredictable. We are trying to give the readers the most accurate description and most viable move sets.

Also, you really underestimate Spikes. Stopping Spikes is one of the main reasons to use Alakazam.

While there's a difference between a 70% chance to hit and a 100% chance for a move to work based on a specific situation (this applies to Counter, and Encore I suppose), I don't think that Focus Blast can be considered any more situational than most of the non-damaging moves on the set. Lemmiwinks's use of the term "inferior" wasn't to say that Focus Blast is never a better option than a support move as you implied. Pretty much all Smogon sets have second and sometimes third options for moves- saying that Focus Blast shouldn't be a second option because it generally isn't as useful as the first option isn't enough of a reason to preclude it.

Honestly, has anyone reading this thread used Encore? If you consider stopping Spikes to be a priority, I'm taking that to mean that you would Taunt Froslass and any lead that can learn Spikes on the first turn. Not only is that extremely predictable, but that leaves you with nothing to Encore. I understand the use of Encore later in the game if you can get Alakazam back in safely, but as a lead, what Pokemon would you use Encore against that you wouldn't Taunt first? Any lead that has entry hazards would be Taunted, correct? So that leaves stat-boosting moves and actual attacks that you would have to be hit by, then cause to hit you again if you wished to Encore them. The only exception that I'm aware of is Sucker Punch, and that move makes Focus Blast an even more attractive option. With Encore, you could try to stall out Sucker Punch's PP (giving both sides a free switch after the second turn- and a smart opponent can get their Pokemon in after the first failed use of Sucker Punch, while you'd have to Encore again if you want to ensure Alakazam's survival, causing it to be faced with yet another counter, and the knowledge that you probably couldn't hit their Dark-type, or you would have). Otherwise, you have no means of retaliation against Sucker Punch users beside switching, which results in a double switch in a best case scenario.

To sum that up, choosing to have both Taunt and Encore means that the only purpose of Encore in the beginning of the game is to possibly give a teammate a free switch-in at the cost of Alakazam's life. The only exception is Sucker Punch, which will lead to a double switch at best, once again.

So if Focus Blast is at least as effective as Encore in those situations (lacking Encore, Alakazam could spam Counter to the same effect as Encore against Sucker Punch users as long as it has its sash intact, and if not, it would likely get Pursuited), and can also help against Pursuit users once Alakazam's sash is gone, I'd say that it should either warrant a spot behind Encore, or better reasons as to why it shouldn't. I don't get how either Focus Blast or Encore is inherently more unpredictable than the other, but if both options are viable, then unpredictability is never a bad thing.

Edit: I just saw this post.

70% to KO a Houndoom without Sucker Punch, deal decent damage to Umbreon and Registeel, and KO Steelix (which is irrelevant anyway because you can KO with Counter) over stopping Froslass from setting up Spikes? Good luck. Even if it had 100% accuracy, Taunt would still be superior. Encore is it's "out of lead position" move. It stops all set up sweepers just like that. Or you can try to Focus Blast Houndoom, and break it's sub 70% of the time. Of course the other 30% you're just going to lose Alakazam, and possibly more, but it seems "some people" (including you) would be OK with that.

You're going to need a lot more impressive facts to justify losing to the most dangerous lead in the metagame.

I agree that Taunt is a necessary move on this set in most cases. If Taunt as not used, Encore could be used for similar purposes (you could attack on the first turn and then Encore a support move), but like d2m has mentioned many times, the purpose of this set, as an anti-lead, is to stop hazards from being placed and defeat as many common leads as possible. Taunt ensures that no hazards will be laid on the first turn barring a bizarre Choice Scarf lead or speed tie with Dugtrio. Encore doesn't aid in preventing hazards, while Focus Blast allows Alakazam to beat more leads than Encore would, so by your criteria, Taunt and Focus Blast are better moves for a lead Alakazam. However, as long as the set has Psychic, it can 2HKO Froslass, and I don't understand how keeping Alakazam alive and its Focus Sash intact in exchange for letting the opponent get one layer of Spikes down, then lose their lead, would be considered "losing".

As for the example given, I haven't seen a Houndoom in weeks at least, and I've never even heard of Substitute being used on it, so I'm not quite sure that is relevant. (Not saying I know everything, but I've been playing a lot this month, so if it was common, I should have seen it at least once.) You said Encore is Alakazam's "out of lead position" move. So you would have to either switch it into Houndoom, or have a Pokemon get killed by it already. I don't think there's a reasonable situation when switching Alakazam into Houndoom is the best option. So for the situation in your example to occur, your opponent would have to use the relatively rare Houndoom, and have it use Substitute (which not on its common movesets). This opponent would also have to kill one of your Pokemon and not get its Substitute broken. That is the definition of situational.
 
iliketurkeybacon said:
To sum that up, choosing to have both Taunt and Encore means that the only purpose of Encore in the beginning of the game is to possibly give a teammate a free switch-in at the cost of Alakazam's life. The only exception is Sucker Punch, which will lead to a double switch at best, once again.

If you mean "at worst", then yea. At best, your opponent will switch out of their Dark-type Pokemon and you can nail their switch-in with a STAB Psychic, or you switch and your opponent doesn't risk the switch. At worst it's a double switch. What does Focus Blast do in that scenario? At best, it gets you OHKOed.

Encore works as a mid-late game stop for almost all set up sweepers. Focus Blast does absolutely nothing that you don't do with any of your other moves. Houndoom isn't even an exception, because it can simply Sucker Punch and OHKO you rather than set up or attack you. I brought up Houndoom in the first place because it was the only Pokemon you almost had an argument for.

Letting your opponent get at least one layer of Spikes defeats the whole purpose of using Alakazam. You might as well use some other lead if you aren't interested in stopping the most dangerous lead in the metagame. Froslass can set up a layer of Spikes and switch out if you aren't going to Taunt it, meaning it can come in again and screw over one of your Pokemon with Taunt, Destiny Bond, or even another layer of Spikes.

Alakazam's strength comes with its Speed and support movepool, not in 70% accurate attacks that will cost you a couple Pokemon quite often rather than Encore which stops Sucker Punch and Substitute Sweepers. Saying Encore is as effective as Focus Blast in any scenario is completely inaccurate.
 
If you mean "at worst", then yea. At best, your opponent will switch out of their Dark-type Pokemon and you can nail their switch-in with a STAB Psychic, or you switch and your opponent doesn't risk the switch. At worst it's a double switch. What does Focus Blast do in that scenario? At best, it gets you OHKOed.

Unless you're thinking Lemmiwinks and I have the exact same argument, almost all of your post is filled with inaccurate assumptions. You say that Sucker Punch is a double switch at worst? If you want to Encore it, you have to cause it to fail at least once, or have it hit you by choosing Psychic, even though it can't touch most of Alakazam's counters. For the sake of this argument, I'm assuming you won't be using an attack that the opponent is immune to to allow them to hit you with Sucker Punch, which would allow you to Encore it, but at the cost of your Focus Sash if it remains. Therefore, you would have to use Encore/Taunt/Counter if you predicted a Sucker Punch. All three have the same initial effect of causing Sucker Punch to fail, and Counter is likely the best choice if Alakazam's sash is intact, so you can Counter back any other physical move in case you predict wrong.

So in this example, your opponent uses Sucker Punch, and you use Counter. It is very possible to force a double switch by using Encore and forcing them to fail Sucker Punch again, but that is just that- a double switch. Saying that you can hit an opponent switching in with Psychic is a really, really bad assumption in my opinion. Your opponent would know all your moves now (besides Psychic) if you Taunted on the first turn to prevent hazards, then the Dark-type switched in (it won't happen every time, but Taunt has been stressed as a priority, so I think this situation is pretty reasonable), you used Counter to cause Sucker Punch to fail, and then Encored the Sucker Punch. If you use Psychic in that situation, not only are you forfeiting your Focus Sash if the Sucker Punch user stays in, but you will be hitting your opponent's second counter to Alakazam if they switch out. Guess what? If the opponent has another Dark-type, a Psychic-type, or even Aggron, you can't do anything to it (besides Counter a physical attack if your Focus Sash is intact, but I'm not arguing that that move isn't useful). So, best-case scenario, you nail your opponent's second choice of switch-in to Alakazam with a Psychic, a move that should be expected given that they saw all your other moves. Worst case, like I said before- once your opponent has their Sucker Punch fail once, the logical thing for them to do would be to switch out, since Dark-types trap Alakazam, not the other way around. This sounds like an even better idea since you'd be forced to Encore that turn unless you want to take your chances with Pursuit. Also, just like you said that you could hit a switch-in with Psychic, the absolute worst thing to happen would be the Encored Sucker Punch user staying in, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that won't happen often.

Now about Focus Blast in that scenario. "At best, it gets you OHKOed." Come on. That is a terrible... generalization maybe? It really just seems to be plain incorrect. If you don't have your Focus Sash intact when a Dark-type comes in and you lack any sort of attack that hits them, you're dead as long as they use Pursuit. If you have your sash up and you Focus Blast, you will deal a lot of damage to every Pursuit user but Spiritomb. Yes, it has 70% accuracy, but you aren't forced to use it- in fact, as long as Alakazam has its sash intact, Counter is clearly a better move than Encore and Focus Blast on the first turn that a Sucker Punch user comes in. If you keep using Counter, as long as the opponent doesn't have any special attacks, you'll either get a kill or force them to switch before losing all their Sucker Punch PP.

Encore works as a mid-late game stop for almost all set up sweepers. Focus Blast does absolutely nothing that you don't do with any of your other moves. Houndoom isn't even an exception, because it can simply Sucker Punch and OHKO you rather than set up or attack you. I brought up Houndoom in the first place because it was the only Pokemon you almost had an argument for.

This is another example of an untrue generalization. I agree with the first sentence, but that is only true if you can get Alakazam back in the game unscathed, or keep it alive in the first place. The second statement is just... wrong. I don't know where you get your giant Houndoom movesets from, but if it has Sucker Punch, it will likely also have Pursuit. The same strategy applies with every opponent. Just because Focus Blast could go on the set doesn't mean that you'd use it when you would use Encore. If the Houndoom uses Pursuit and Alakazam doesn't have its sash intact, you're dead either way. I'd prefer to get a hit on Houndoom unless it uses Sucker Punch, which it doesn't usually have even on physical sets. If Alakazam still has its Focus Sash, then you can use non-damaging moves if you're really scared of Sucker Punch, but there is nothing to stop it from pummeling you with Dark Pulse. In that situation, I'd rather use a super effective attack on a frail Pokemon than assume it will use an uncommon attack from its lower attacking stat. But you still have both options with Focus Blast.

Letting your opponent get at least one layer of Spikes defeats the whole purpose of using Alakazam. You might as well use some other lead if you aren't interested in stopping the most dangerous lead in the metagame. Froslass can set up a layer of Spikes and switch out if you aren't going to Taunt it, meaning it can come in again and screw over one of your Pokemon with Taunt, Destiny Bond, or even another layer of Spikes.

I think you confused me addressing counterarguments with my argument. I think "defeats the whole purpose of using Alakazam" is very debatable, but I'm not disputing that Taunt should be a move on this set. However, I will say that while Alakazam can stop Froslass from putting up Spikes, just as you said that Froslass can switch after the first Psychic if you choose to attack, if that matchup is so one-sided, an opponent would be better served by switching Froslass on the first turn into one of the many things that don't fear Psychic. Either way, Taunt is a good move for the set, and otherwise it wouldn't really be an anti-lead.

Alakazam's strength comes with its Speed and support movepool, not in 70% accurate attacks that will cost you a couple Pokemon quite often rather than Encore which stops Sucker Punch and Substitute Sweepers. Saying Encore is as effective as Focus Blast in any scenario is completely inaccurate.

This is the third example I've quoted where you touted your opinion as fact. "Alakazam's strength comes with its Speed and support movepool" is entirely an opinion. Those are strengths, but it also has the highest special attack out of any UU Pokemon. Just because you think that Alakazam's good support movepool and STAB attack are the only plausible options on this set doesn't make that a fact. Focus Blast will cost you a couple Pokemon quite often? Are you serious? One move on a lead that you don't have to use will cost you multiple Pokemon frequently? That isn't true for any Pokemon, barring Choiced Pokemon in unlikely situations. Counter and Taunt thwart Sucker Punch as well, Counter rebounding any other physical attack and Taunt also stopping Substitute. "Saying Encore is as effective as Focus Blast in any scenario is completely inaccurate." If you mean that one attack can never be as useful as another, that point by itself is almost never true. Then when you compare an attack that can actually hurt Steels and Darks to one that only helps after they already used a non-attacking move, it's obvious that Focus Blast can be useful in situations where Encore won't be. The opposite is also true, but your one-sided opinions do nothing to support your argument.
 
Unless you're thinking Lemmiwinks and I have the exact same argument, almost all of your post is filled with inaccurate assumptions. You say that Sucker Punch is a double switch at worst? If you want to Encore it, you have to cause it to fail at least once, or have it hit you by choosing Psychic, even though it can't touch most of Alakazam's counters. For the sake of this argument, I'm assuming you won't be using an attack that the opponent is immune to to allow them to hit you with Sucker Punch, which would allow you to Encore it, but at the cost of your Focus Sash if it remains. Therefore, you would have to use Encore/Taunt/Counter if you predicted a Sucker Punch. All three have the same initial effect of causing Sucker Punch to fail, and Counter is likely the best choice if Alakazam's sash is intact, so you can Counter back any other physical move in case you predict wrong.

No you don't, you can just Encore it. It's quite simple:

Pokemon X uses Sucker Punch
But it failed!
Alakazam uses Encore

Pokemon X's Sucker Punch is now Encored. It didn't need to use Counter. It may take some prediction, but it still is possible and probable.

Again, just because it's the "best case scenario" for your argument doesn't mean it's the "best case scenario".

iliketurkeybacon said:
So in this example, your opponent uses Sucker Punch, and you use Counter. It is very possible to force a double switch by using Encore and forcing them to fail Sucker Punch again, but that is just that- a double switch. Saying that you can hit an opponent switching in with Psychic is a really, really bad assumption in my opinion. Your opponent would know all your moves now (besides Psychic) if you Taunted on the first turn to prevent hazards, then the Dark-type switched in (it won't happen every time, but Taunt has been stressed as a priority, so I think this situation is pretty reasonable), you used Counter to cause Sucker Punch to fail, and then Encored the Sucker Punch. If you use Psychic in that situation, not only are you forfeiting your Focus Sash if the Sucker Punch user stays in, but you will be hitting your opponent's second counter to Alakazam if they switch out. Guess what? If the opponent has another Dark-type, a Psychic-type, or even Aggron, you can't do anything to it (besides Counter a physical attack if your Focus Sash is intact, but I'm not arguing that that move isn't useful). So, best-case scenario, you nail your opponent's second choice of switch-in to Alakazam with a Psychic, a move that should be expected given that they saw all your other moves. Worst case, like I said before- once your opponent has their Sucker Punch fail once, the logical thing for them to do would be to switch out, since Dark-types trap Alakazam, not the other way around. This sounds like an even better idea since you'd be forced to Encore that turn unless you want to take your chances with Pursuit. Also, just like you said that you could hit a switch-in with Psychic, the absolute worst thing to happen would be the Encored Sucker Punch user staying in, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that won't happen often.

Counter doesn't make Sucker Punch fail, it makes it hit you. This has made it quite evident that your post is a bunch of theorymon. That's why Encore is needed to deal with Sucker Punch rather than just letting yourself faint with a 70% accurate attack...

Also, when you say "At best", you should mean "at best". You didn't mean at best, because that's a pretty bad result from Encoring Sucker Punch because your opponent is actually forced out, you can stay in and Taunt all day until they struggle. You have the upper hand in that scenario, so at "Best", either you switch out and they don't, they switch out and you hit them with Psychic, or last but not least you just stay in and make them struggle.

iliketurkeybacon said:
Now about Focus Blast in that scenario. "At best, it gets you OHKOed." Come on. That is a terrible... generalization maybe? It really just seems to be plain incorrect. If you don't have your Focus Sash intact when a Dark-type comes in and you lack any sort of attack that hits them, you're dead as long as they use Pursuit. If you have your sash up and you Focus Blast, you will deal a lot of damage to every Pursuit user but Spiritomb. Yes, it has 70% accuracy, but you aren't forced to use it- in fact, as long as Alakazam has its sash intact, Counter is clearly a better move than Encore and Focus Blast on the first turn that a Sucker Punch user comes in. If you keep using Counter, as long as the opponent doesn't have any special attacks, you'll either get a kill or force them to switch before losing all their Sucker Punch PP.

The only thing that is incorrect is the fact that you think Counter avoids Sucker Punch :(. If you drop Encore for Focus Blast, as you are suggesting, you will lose to basically every Sucker Puncher if your sash isn't intact or if you get lucky and avoid Pursuit when you switch out.

iliketurkeybacon said:
This is another example of an untrue generalization. I agree with the first sentence, but that is only true if you can get Alakazam back in the game unscathed, or keep it alive in the first place. The second statement is just... wrong. I don't know where you get your giant Houndoom movesets from, but if it has Sucker Punch, it will likely also have Pursuit. The same strategy applies with every opponent. Just because Focus Blast could go on the set doesn't mean that you'd use it when you would use Encore. If the Houndoom uses Pursuit and Alakazam doesn't have its sash intact, you're dead either way. I'd prefer to get a hit on Houndoom unless it uses Sucker Punch, which it doesn't usually have even on physical sets. If Alakazam still has its Focus Sash, then you can use non-damaging moves if you're really scared of Sucker Punch, but there is nothing to stop it from pummeling you with Dark Pulse. In that situation, I'd rather use a super effective attack on a frail Pokemon than assume it will use an uncommon attack from its lower attacking stat. But you still have both options with Focus Blast.

But that very very uncommom scenario does not outweigh the benefits of using Encore. Period. What happens if you have Blastoise or Milotic in, and your opponent sends in Raikou. You need Alakazam to beat it with Encore otherwise you essentially lose the match (a set up Raikou is almost impossible to stop once it's set up).

Heysup said:
This is the third example I've quoted where you touted your opinion as fact. "Alakazam's strength comes with its Speed and support movepool" is entirely an opinion. Those are strengths, but it also has the highest special attack out of any UU Pokemon. Just because you think that Alakazam's good support movepool and STAB attack are the only plausible options on this set doesn't make that a fact. Focus Blast will cost you a couple Pokemon quite often? Are you serious? One move on a lead that you don't have to use will cost you multiple Pokemon frequently? That isn't true for any Pokemon. Counter and Taunt thwart Sucker Punch as well, Counter rebounding any other physical attack and Taunt also stopping Substitute. "Saying Encore is as effective as Focus Blast in any scenario is completely inaccurate." If you mean that one attack can never be as useful as another, that point by itself is almost never true. Then when you compare an attack that can actually hurt Steels and Darks to one that only helps after they already used a non-attacking move, it's obvious that Focus Blast can be useful in situations where Encore won't be. The opposite is also true, but your one-sided opinions do nothing to support your argument.

I know it's an opinion, but it is one based on evidence, experience, and the purpose of this set.

If you don't carry Encore, so many Pokemon can just simply destroy your team if you don't manage to predict right every time and get Alakazam in to Taunt.

Alakazam isn't a suicide lead, it's an Anti-lead. This means it beats (via KO and Taunt) most other leads, meaning it will stick around longer than suicide leads (such as standard Froslass).

Encore gives you a chance to be semi-productive late game while Focus Blast just makes Alakazam dead weight (hitting Steels and Darks (who carry Sucker Punch) 70% of the time isn't exactly "encouraging" compared to stopping Pokemon like NP Missy, SubCM Raikou, SD Venusaur, Sucker Punchers, etc). Focus Blast leaves you essentially defenseless against Sucker Punch (which you'll realize as soon as you see that Sucker Punch is activated by Counter).

Obviously there are some (very few) random situations where Focus Blast would have been worth the move slot, but it doesn't do anything even remotely as useful as Encore. Since that's what your suggesting it's slashed with, I see no reason to add it.

This is my last post on the matter I've said all I can say ^_^
 
Can you explain how Sucker Punch and Counter interact? I was under the impression that, as it's a non-damaging move, Counter causes Sucker Punch to fail. So from your post, I guess I'm wrong- but you're saying Counter both allows Sucker Punch to work and doesn't redirect it? In terms of Encore, I understand that it causes Sucker Punch to fail and forces it to be used multiple times, but if the opponent is using Sucker Punch, then you can switch out with slightly less benefit and much less risk. You could also Taunt Sucker Punch if you were really concerned about opponents setting up a Substitute as you escape. In that specific situation, Encore is often useful, but Focus Blast can help as well, and it applies in many other situations, just like Encore does. I'm not even arguing that one is clearly better than the other, but I do believe that both are reasonable options. And yes, most of what I said has been theory, although I have tried Alakazam but didn't like it, due to some reasons I've cited. Debating over these theories more is a bad idea, but can you or d2m show me a log where you've actually Taunted a lead, damaged/Countered something, and been able to come back and Encore a set-up sweeper? Or even two of those.
 
X Used Sucker Punch
Alakazam took 100% damage.
Alakazam...focus sash.
Alakazam used Counter.
X dies a horrible death.

I'm not slashing focus blast in. End of story. Stop discussing it.
 
X Used Sucker Punch
Alakazam took 100% damage.
Alakazam...focus sash.
Alakazam used Counter.
X dies a horrible death.

I'm not slashing focus blast in. End of story. Stop discussing it.

So... you just disproved Heysup's point, I think... or what he said about Counter didn't apply to me. Either way, my statement about Counter is then true. And yeah, I've accepted that you won't change your mind about Focus Blast despite the only viable use for Encore being after Alakazam switches out, assuming it Taunts a lead, doesn't get attacked first turn, and takes it out, and a Pursuit user doesn't switch in. That's fine, I won't pester you guys any more after this, but one log displaying Taunt and Encore both being used successfully might give your point more credibility. I know that I'd have to convince you guys that Focus Blast is viable to put it on, and I haven't, but it would be nice if you could show me how each of those moves could be useful.
 
He disproved my point? I wasn't going to post again but claiming you are right when you were clearly proven wrong, then saying I was wrong is just...annoying?

Here is just one example of you saying "Counter makes Sucker Punch fail" out of maybe 10-ish times.

iloveturkeybacon said:
Therefore, you would have to use Encore/Taunt/Counter if you predicted a Sucker Punch. All three have the same initial effect of causing Sucker Punch to fail

While I said:
Heysup said:
Counter doesn't make Sucker Punch fail, it makes it hit you.

So in that situation that he pointed out, Sucker Punch clearly hits you, it does not fail. You said the latter, while I said the former.

I apologize if you were just genuinely confused about this, but I doubt it...it isn't complicated stuff lol.

Also, since your suggesting Focus Blast based off of theorymon (clearly due to the Sucker Punch thing), it would be nice if you posted logs as well. That's probably the only way to convince d2m and myself (among others) that Focus Blast is viable.
 
I said in my last post that I'm done trying to convince you guys that Focus Blast should at least be an option. I said that I was wrong about Counter not hitting the opponent, but my previous statement that d2m reinforced my point when he clarified that Counter does redirect Sucker Punch is true. Obviously, you wouldn't use it if you don't have your sash intact, but otherwise, it still makes it a solid option to use if you expect Sucker Punch and would rather KO the opponent than get a free switch or something. I mistakenly thought that it would cause Sucker Punch to fail without tipping your opponent off that you had Encore, but that is the only aspect of my misinterpretation of Counter that made any difference in what I posted, and you wouldn't attempt to Counter when Alakazam has 1 HP anyway. Saying that d2m disproved your point was also wrong, though. What I guess I meant is that he disproved what I thought was your point. When you said that Counter avoids Sucker Punch, I thought that you meant that Counter would be a bad idea to use when you expect a Sucker Punch, even with a Focus Sash intact, but that is not the case. To clarify things, I wasn't aware that Counter is considered an attack for the purposes of Sucker Punch, and saying that "Counter causes Sucker Punch to fail" or anything similar was incorrect. When I said that Counter is probably the best option against an opponent with both Pursuit and Sucker Punch with Alakazam's Focus Sash intact, that still seems to be correct.

And yes, it would be nice if I posted logs showing Focus Blast being a viable option. Besides the part where I said I don't want to waste any more time convincing you guys, I don't use the lead Alakazam set at all anymore because I don't feel that it is very effective, with or without Focus Blast. Just like I don't feel like I have to post logs, you guys don't have to either. I just said that it would be nice and would perhaps convince me (and prove to others) that this set is somewhat viable. No hard feelings or anything, I just don't see that. Thanks for explaining the mechanics of Sucker Punch/Counter, and I will happily eat my words if I can see reasonable evidence of this set working a few times.
 
[SET]
name: Anti-lead
move 1: Taunt/ Encore
move 2: Reflect/Light Screen
move 3: Counter/ Focus Blast
move 4: Psychic
item: Focus Sash
ability: Inner Focus
nature: Timid
evs: 252 Spe/252 SpA/4 HP

Taunt AND Encore is meh. You either prevent setup or you can setup something of your own. Why wouldn't you run Psychic?
 
I know I can't speak for d2m, Heysup, or anyone else, but I think the consensus was that Taunt, Psychic, and Counter should definitely be on the set, although the last spot is Psychic/Reflect/Light Screen in the OP. And I share your opinion on Taunt/Encore being redundant, but I already said my piece.
 
Taunt and Encore are for completely different situations. Taunt prevents hazards/screens, Encore prevents Sucker Punch, setup later in the game, and setup by Dark types (i.e. Crotomb and NP Houndoom that get in on you easily). Encore is also useful for locking someone into Pursuit (if you're going to die anyway) so anything that resists Dark can set up easily.
 
This situation is turning into something really familiar...

This really isn't worth arguing about (I've learned my lesson), so you might as well make the set:

[SET]
name: Anti-lead
move 1: Taunt
move 2: Encore / Focus Blast
move 3: Counter
move 4: Psychic

Dual Screen should have it's own set anyway.

People seem to be "eh" about Encore, and seem to think Focus Blast is good, you might as well slash them, even if it's for the wrong reasons sometimes you need to do it.

Of course I disagree with Focus Blast being on the set, ever, but that's how it is.
 
Why exactly would you choose not to run Encore on this Alakazam? With Zam being the fastest user and being life-saving in so many situations, it is probably Zam's best asset, and to not run it would be crazy. Well, that's just my opinion anyway, and I guess I can't argue if some people disagree. All I will say is, if Focus Blast is going to go on the set, I'd rather it at least be a second option over both Encore and Taunt, so that people can decide for themselves which one they'd prefer to drop if going for the second attack.
 
Why exactly would you choose not to run Encore on this Alakazam? With Zam being the fastest user and being life-saving in so many situations, it is probably Zam's best asset, and to not run it would be crazy. Well, that's just my opinion anyway, and I guess I can't argue if some people disagree. All I will say is, if Focus Blast is going to go on the set, I'd rather it at least be a second option over both Encore and Taunt, so that people can decide for themselves which one they'd prefer to drop if going for the second attack.

Running a second attack at the expense of being useless as an Anti-lead (lacking Taunt) or losing team support (encore to set up or to prevent an opposing sweep) is never worth it. The situations where a second attack is useful are too few and far-between to justify damaging what is already a solid set.

I'm considering even dropping the screen option because it is quite inferior to the Psychic set, Focus Blast would be even more inferior to the set.
 
[SET]
name: Anti-lead
move 1: Taunt
move 2: Encore
move 3: Counter
move 4: Psychic / Reflect / Light Screen
item: Focus Sash
ability: Inner Focus
nature: Timid
evs: 252 Spe/252 SpA/4 HP

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Alakazam's blistering Speed and access to Taunt make it a prime candidate for preventing entry hazards from being set up by opposing leads. It outspeeds all of the common UU leads barring Electrode and can thus prevent all forms of entry hazards.; although a Jolly Dugtrio can use Stealth Rock if it wins the speed tie, though that situation is exceedingly rare.</p>

<p>The EVs are fairly straightforward: maximizing Alakazam's Speed and offensive ability, with the remainder placed in HP. For sets that run Reflect or Light Screen over Psychic, the Special Attack [you can't abbreviate in an analysis!] EVs are not needed and can be replaced with HP EVs. Optionally, dropping the Defense IV to 0 can give you a small boost to Counter's power.</p>

<p>While seemingly unorthodox, Counter is the main attack move of the set. Taunt ensures that the opposing Pokemon will use an attack move, thus removing most of the prediction necessary to use Counter. Due to Alakazam's extreme physical frailty, Counter will almost always net an OHKO on a Pokemon that attempts to KO it with a physical attack. This is especially effective against leads like Absol [now that Honchkrow is BL you need to use a different example here, Absol comes to mind immediately as a strong Pursuit user but its your call] who use Pursuit, and leads that use a super effective U-turn like Uxie, Mespirit, and Ambipom. Counter combined with Inner Focus also prevents Fake Out leads from breaking your Focus Sash, providing clean OHKOs on lead Ambipom, Persian, and Kangaskhan. Counter also defeats many of the primary switch-ins to Alakazam's other sets, such as [you just used "like" so many times in this paragraph that I felt like another word / phrase was needed] Umbreon, Drapion, and Honchkrow.</p>

<p>Encore provides an answer to set up leads and Baton Pass leads, preventing them from being able to utilize any boosts they may accrue; however, the true power of Encore comes in conjunction with Taunt and the Focus Sash. If Alakazam successfully prevents entry hazards with Taunt, it [avoid using the same term for a Pokemon twice in the same sentence] can come back into play even at 1 HP and Encore many dangerous set up sweepers like Nasty Plot Mismagius and Calm Mind Raikou. Encore also serves as an answer to Sucker Punch, allowing Alakazam to avoid the damage and get a free switch out of the deal.</p>

<p>The last move is open for interpretation. The preferred move is Psychic, as it gives Alakazam reliable offensive power as well as a way to hit specially-based leads like Froslass (who is 2HKOed even with max HP EVs) and Moltres. It also allows Alakazam to perform minimal revenge kills later in the game as Psychic hits common threats such as Venusaur and Hitmontop for super effective damage. Other options include Reflect and Light Screen for team support. The fact it can only carry one at a time and cannot have Light Clay with this set means that they are a somewhat inferior option, but Taunt and Focus Sash virtually guarantees that it will get its one screen up, allowing you to set up a sweeper or entry hazards easily.</p>

<p>This set's worst nightmare is Spiritomb because it is immune to both Counter and Psychic and can hit Alakazam hard with a STAB Pursuit, Shadow Ball, or Shadow Sneak. The only way to effectively eliminate this set is for a lead to U-Turn to Spiritomb with Pursuit. This set also doesn't like being tricked a Choice Scarf by Uxie or Mespirit, although most tend to set up Stealth Rock or U-Turn instead.</p>

<p>With Alakazam preventing entry hazards, Stealth Rock weak sweepers like Life Orb Moltres and Nasty Plot Houndoom can easily come in without having to worry about losing 50% and 25% of their HP respectively. Houndoom is especially good because it can set up on all forms of Spiritomb with impunity [Hidden Power Fighting Spiritomb?]. Light Screen variants work very well with Rock Polish Rhyperior and Aggron, as they can set up on Spiritomb (but be careful of Will-O-Wisp if you do not have Lum Berry) and other physical attackers that commonly take out Alakazam, while Light Screen prevents Milotic and other physical tanks (who commonly use special attacks) from KOing them outright. Reflect versions are perfect with Sub/CM Raikou as it prevents Spiritomb from being able to break its Substitute with anything, and allows him to survive an non-STAB Earthquake from most anything in the tier.</p>

Changes in blue
Removals in red
Comments in brackets and green

Good job, Colonel M seems to have forgotten about this, but after to implement my grammar checks then you should PM him and see if he can upload it! ;)
 
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