All the Gengars I've seen beg to differ (Dusknoir pops up on frequent occasions as well). Besides, don't most Medichams use Choice Items?
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Alert: Use Brick Break on Medicham. *Info inside*
- Thread starter futuresuperstar
- Start date
All the Gengars I've seen beg to differ (Dusknoir pops up on frequent occasions as well). Besides, don't most Medichams use Choice Items?
As your opponent "catches on" and switches into things to deal with it, it's not like you have to stay in with medicham. CB'ers/scarf'ers switch a lot. As they try and move in their ghost, you simply outpredict and use another attack. It's not hard at all.
EDIT: I also dont think this warrants it's own discussion as people that feel too strongly on either side won't budge. I feel it's just best for people to use what suits them best. Something like this probably won't resolve before it gets locked. However, the discovery of a few things were interesting and nice to know for the future..
EDIT: I also dont think this warrants it's own discussion as people that feel too strongly on either side won't budge. I feel it's just best for people to use what suits them best. Something like this probably won't resolve before it gets locked. However, the discovery of a few things were interesting and nice to know for the future..
True, but what if they suspect you have it on the first turn?
*Take anything I say with a grain of salt. I'm extremely biased against Hi Jump Kick*
I'd rather take the risks involved with using Hi Jump Kick, Brick Break is alot weaker and on a pokemon like Medicham you want to be hitting as hard as possible. Using Brick Break over Hi Jump Kick will just be a matter of preference (Reliability over Power) and people will pick which one they want to use depending on how much risks they want to take
I completely agree not using high jump kick. brick break is probably the best option for medicham now... the other useable STAB-moves are force palm, which wouldn't do enough damage, but may be effective for slower teams. Drain punch heals you. This is still worse than brick break since medicham needs to hit hard, and doesn't have enough staying power. so in the end, brick break seems the best move left.
I used HJK in ADVANCE because Brick Break is too weak, let alone in D/P with the buff to the jump kick attacks. :/ Breaking screens so rarely comes into play that you can almost completely ignore it. Of course, the risk/reward is now higher with an even better BP and the fact the ever-present Dusknoir these days (as well as some Gengar) now makes you kill yourself. Meh.
Power matters even if you have an SE attack on your opponent. Since your Choice item will lock you in (and when isn't Medicham using CB/Scarf?), you can't just decide, "Hey, it's Suicune. I'm going to stop Brick Breaking it and start Thunderpunching it!" The power is essential every single time, as it gives you a much better shot at sweeping immediately instead of being forced to switch out because you took wussy-ass Brick Break and you can't kill the thing your opponent just sent out. I learned my lesson enough in Advance and it's only worse now -- Brick Break's lack of power will get you killed far more often than HJK crashing will.
For those of you weirdos seemingly advocating Medicham as wholly superior to Electivire, Electivire isn't forced to wear a Scarf to not be woefully slow and is bolstered by Electric attacks, including T-Wave. That said, if you want to run an Expert Belt or Life Orb Medicham for some reason (it's too slow), there's a reason to use Brick Break I suppose.
Poliwrath sure doesn't! He doesn't get the Kicks either. He can't even Drain Punch or Force Palm. :(
Power matters even if you have an SE attack on your opponent. Since your Choice item will lock you in (and when isn't Medicham using CB/Scarf?), you can't just decide, "Hey, it's Suicune. I'm going to stop Brick Breaking it and start Thunderpunching it!" The power is essential every single time, as it gives you a much better shot at sweeping immediately instead of being forced to switch out because you took wussy-ass Brick Break and you can't kill the thing your opponent just sent out. I learned my lesson enough in Advance and it's only worse now -- Brick Break's lack of power will get you killed far more often than HJK crashing will.
For those of you weirdos seemingly advocating Medicham as wholly superior to Electivire, Electivire isn't forced to wear a Scarf to not be woefully slow and is bolstered by Electric attacks, including T-Wave. That said, if you want to run an Expert Belt or Life Orb Medicham for some reason (it's too slow), there's a reason to use Brick Break I suppose.
Poliwrath sure doesn't! He doesn't get the Kicks either. He can't even Drain Punch or Force Palm. :(
Too bad Medicham doesn't get Close Combat, but then again that'd kinda be overkill.
After reading that post, I agree with you. If your prediction's good enough, it shouldn't matter which fighting move you run because those that would be fainted by it will faint regardless, with maybe a few exceptions. Ghosts are growing even more common, along with protect, so that's a genuine point to make in my eyes.
EDIT. Seems I was under the influence of tired when I wrote that...but I still agree. Yeah, Medicham can't take a sweeper hit, but it can switch into something like Blissey, whereas if it's getting HJK damage, it has a harder time.
Lol can you imagine Bliss with Protect? Ultimate HJK bane.
After reading that post, I agree with you. If your prediction's good enough, it shouldn't matter which fighting move you run because those that would be fainted by it will faint regardless, with maybe a few exceptions. Ghosts are growing even more common, along with protect, so that's a genuine point to make in my eyes.
EDIT. Seems I was under the influence of tired when I wrote that...but I still agree. Yeah, Medicham can't take a sweeper hit, but it can switch into something like Blissey, whereas if it's getting HJK damage, it has a harder time.
Lol can you imagine Bliss with Protect? Ultimate HJK bane.
lol i remember that battle FSS. I thought that was the funniest thing ever. but despite that, i dont think you should replace HJK with BB. For one thing, knowing your opponent has a ghost allows you to predict easier. Since gengar is the most common ghost type, using Psycho Cut as prediction instead of HJK or even BB allows you to KO the incoming Gengar. Then once the Gengar is dead, you can freely excercise you HJK rampage. Also, my starter was extremely unconventional using the Protect. 99% of the time, you can predict a protecting starter and thus just not choose to use HJK or just switch out. It may have been the funniest thing to watch you Madicham die this way, but in most cases, HJK will help you more than hinder you. And besides, when was missing a move never suicidal. I mean, if i miss an important Stone Edge using DD TTar against a Gyarados, you can call it siucidal right there.
If they were the same base power as ADV I would defo use Brick Break, but the extra power is worth it!
I suppose Enemy is somewhat right. Perhaps I just had a horrible experience under my belt, haha.
Wasn't it confirmed Mind Reader can Be Baton Passed on Advance and D/P?
Protect is rare in 1 vs 1. Also, you don't have to use Hi Jump Kick every single time after you realize they have something with protect. Use his other 3 moves. A decent point though.
And after you learn they have a ghost on their team, use psycho cut or his other 2 moves to scout for switch-ins. (If he is choice-item'd, just use the move and switch out if it is not enough damage) This is the only true point you made.
Fly? Dig? Dive? No. No one should be using these, and if you are fighting someone who uses these, you can still win 5-6.
Ok... How did he survive the Self-destruct/Explosion? Momento would lower your damage (lol). Heal wish and lunar dance aren't used at all. If they did a strong recoil move and died from it, how did Medicham survive?
Let's take mr. sandbag, he has 500 hp and 250 defense. Primape and Medicham will now attack it. (252 adamant, sexy!)
Medicham used Brick break! 156-184 damage.
Primeape used Close Combat! 176-208 damage.
Uh oh. Primeape out-damages Medicham's Brick break. At least Primeape doesn't get anything better than Medicham, right? What? More speed, Stone Edge, AND U-turn? We're better off using Primeape than if we use Medicham with brick break? Damn.
Medicham used Hi Jump Kick! Medicham's attack missed! It kept going and crashed! (104-122 damage!)
C'mon Medicham, step it up.
Medicham used Hi Jump Kick! 208-244 damage.
Oh there we go. His minimum is the same as Primape's MAXIMUM. Good thing Hi Jump Kick was powered up in 4th gen.
Bottom line: I'm really bored.
Protect is rare in 1 vs 1. Also, you don't have to use Hi Jump Kick every single time after you realize they have something with protect. Use his other 3 moves. A decent point though.
And after you learn they have a ghost on their team, use psycho cut or his other 2 moves to scout for switch-ins. (If he is choice-item'd, just use the move and switch out if it is not enough damage) This is the only true point you made.
Fly? Dig? Dive? No. No one should be using these, and if you are fighting someone who uses these, you can still win 5-6.
Ok... How did he survive the Self-destruct/Explosion? Momento would lower your damage (lol). Heal wish and lunar dance aren't used at all. If they did a strong recoil move and died from it, how did Medicham survive?
Let's take mr. sandbag, he has 500 hp and 250 defense. Primape and Medicham will now attack it. (252 adamant, sexy!)
Medicham used Brick break! 156-184 damage.
Primeape used Close Combat! 176-208 damage.
Uh oh. Primeape out-damages Medicham's Brick break. At least Primeape doesn't get anything better than Medicham, right? What? More speed, Stone Edge, AND U-turn? We're better off using Primeape than if we use Medicham with brick break? Damn.
Medicham used Hi Jump Kick! Medicham's attack missed! It kept going and crashed! (104-122 damage!)
C'mon Medicham, step it up.
Medicham used Hi Jump Kick! 208-244 damage.
Oh there we go. His minimum is the same as Primape's MAXIMUM. Good thing Hi Jump Kick was powered up in 4th gen.
Bottom line: I'm really bored.
That shuts down my (admittedly biased) argument. I'm just not using Medicham, then. Thanks for the damage calculations! :)
As far as Fighting types who can't take a hit, I'll stick with good old Infernape.
Of course he won't survive an explosion. More likely, someone switches in a Ninjask in the late game to die on stealth rock and take the medicham down with it.
HJK is still much better. It's just got downsides you need to be aware of.
I'd had lower accuracy moves screw me over once too many, but considering this at least packs 100 power without something like Cross Chop/Stone Edge level accuracy, its pretty decent, sure the side effect is nasty, but with Medicham if you miss you are dead anyway.
Also an accuracy boosting item may work with HJK, except not on Medicham which really only has a few moves that would benefit. The chans and Lucario on the other hand have plenty of moves in addition to HJK like Blaze Kick and Iron Tail for Lucario that become usable with an accuracy boost. It beats the residual damage of a Life Orb and grants the same flexibility.
Also an accuracy boosting item may work with HJK, except not on Medicham which really only has a few moves that would benefit. The chans and Lucario on the other hand have plenty of moves in addition to HJK like Blaze Kick and Iron Tail for Lucario that become usable with an accuracy boost. It beats the residual damage of a Life Orb and grants the same flexibility.
Yeah, I believe so... and with STAB it's 150 now, isn't it? Well, anyhow, Brick Break would also get STAB too right? Though that actually makes HJK better:
75*1.5=112.5
100*1.5=150
150-112= 38
So it's more like a 38 Power difference, which is pretty huge. I think I'd go with HJK, though I guess it really is a matter of opinion. If you feel safer going with Brick Break... meh. I guess, though I don't know. I mean, Hi Jump Kick isn't the only move you have as others have pointed out.
Hmm, Nintendo decided to make it so the user takes recoil damage if Hi Jump Kick is used against a Ghost type? That wasn't there before in advance. I guess they added it to counter balence the extra BP? Don't know if the Dive/Dig scenario was in advance. Nobody uses those moves. The explosion scenario is pointless since Medicham won't survive an explosion from anything unless your opponent is using really low level pokemon. I don't use Medicham much but Hi Jump Kick never screwed me up in advance so I'll still use Hi Jump Kick.
Kromlech is right. The only protect you will see in 1vs1 is on Mixpert or on something like Yanmega.
The only ghosts you will see are Gengar, Dusknoir and maybe Mismagius. Perhaps just play careful and scout there team for ghosts first. If they have one then do your best to predict it, if not, then HJK freely!
The only ghosts you will see are Gengar, Dusknoir and maybe Mismagius. Perhaps just play careful and scout there team for ghosts first. If they have one then do your best to predict it, if not, then HJK freely!
Unless she's Focus Sashed of course.
Otherwise, it applies to other things.
For example, going before Cham and killing yourself with Recoil or whatever.
I agree that I prefer those 37 points over the unlikely chance, but brick break is nice to consider,
as it has the bonus benefit of breaking screens, and an additional 10% accuracy.
I lead with a Scarfcham, and the amount of times HJK got me the win FAR exceeds the amount of times it wound up killing me. But I HAVE lost a match to a Bliss who I missed HJK on. Man, that was bad...
Anyway, I prefer HJK over BB because if you're going to go with something that weak, you might as well just use another Pokemon in general, such as sweeping Gallade. Sure, HJK is a bit on the risky side, but the rewards are far greater if it hits. You just have to be careful with what you use it on.
Anyway, I prefer HJK over BB because if you're going to go with something that weak, you might as well just use another Pokemon in general, such as sweeping Gallade. Sure, HJK is a bit on the risky side, but the rewards are far greater if it hits. You just have to be careful with what you use it on.
