Intim Corv doesn't seem like great answer given all good Hatterenes have mystical fire and Lucario can be OHKOd by +1 LO Modest DKiss
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AAA Almost Any Ability (BANS ALREADY?! See posts #974 and #985!)
- Thread starter Isaiah
- Start date
i mean i got to 1600's with team so i think im fine
Can you now vote on ghold, it has new checks now such as GoodraH and av meloetta
Please every time i build a dumb ho team i realize that what i need in my last slot is ghold please release my golden panacea
Here's what Gholdengo's offensive sets can do to both.
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 364-429 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Gholdengo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 210-248 (57.6 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Gholdengo Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 222-263 (60.9 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hex MGLO set that beats Iron Moth)
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 308-363 (76.2 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Steelworker Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 344-407 (85.1 - 100.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Gholdengo Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Meloetta: 269-317 (66.5 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Goodra-Hisui Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 150-178 (47.6 - 56.5%) -- 83.6% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 154-182 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO (Granted it can still pivot out, although I also ran Sub Gholdengo before)
Doesn't seem too balanced to me, but I guess it has to give up more to be all-out offensive?
don't mind me, just here to post some pre-home thoughts
i both really like and hate this core at the same time. i really like it because it makes building teams simple, easy, and makes the tier inviting to newcomers. just slap on these three mons, a breaker, your choice of gambit/scream/tink, and filler, and bam! you have a solid team. but i also hate the core because, between the inherent options these three mons have, you're very hard-pressed to find consistent and reliable counterplay to a core like this. again, this is both good and bad: good because this means you can't mu fish this core easily, making the tier more competitive, but bad because as centralizing as this core is, it's also quite constraining. this isn't me saying that this core is broken and we need to take tiering action, but it's more that the pre-home metagame lacks sufficient options to deal with the core. personally i've been using intimidate corv + regenvest chomp + modest moth but there are plenty of more things this core can run, like va corv, sd chomp, more defensive moth sets, bu immunity corv, lo regen chomp, hadron moth...the list goes on. it's a net neutral for the tier imo but i would love some more ways to deal with it in builder.
probably the best breaker in the tier rn. or maybe progress maker is the better term. either way i find this mon to be super consistent and flexible, with the only drawback in builder being that you give up the ability to run another good mon like treads or garg. i've really been liking ada sor boots sets for their longevity and ability to abuse coverage on switch-ins like ceruledge (broken mon btw) and non-ee dirge, but band/scarf sets are very good funny button clickers/speed control respectively that are solid leads as well, considering you're almost always getting momentum + chip with it. bu sets also sound very scary on paper, but so far i haven't seen anyone make it work since furscales meta. maybe a jolly spread with cc/leech/sun? not sure what ability it would run though.
okay i apologize for underrating talonflame, this mon is cracked and possibly the best wincon in the tier. offensive counterplay is pretty dire considering the lack of scarfers as well as the only faster mons being chien-pao and jolteon, which have their respective drawbacks, so it's really easy to just run into a match where you know you're the fastest thing there. because of this, it can dedicate moveslots to annoying defensive checks like wbb corv and non-ps garg with taunt/wisp respectively. with the massive pex nerf it lost one splashable check that it had last gen, and combined with the lower power level of the tier and bb having 24 pp, it's easy for it to wear down its own checks and just outright win later on. cool mon, would love to see it used more in ompl.
these mons are...annoying. they're not really broken and there's a clear cost to using them in the builder, but they have a very small selection of mons that can beat them, and not running them + giving them a single free turn (which isn't hard considering they set up on most corv) can mean you lose on the spot. i feel like they're stifling creativity in the tier with their limited amount of counters and near lack of defensive checks. i would say this is also a symptom of pre-home meta lacking options, but also because prankster haze is frankly quite bad after the recovery nerf, so it's kinda just "random dazzling mons or scream tail" for chesnaught and "dark-types that aren't weak to fairy or shadow ball blissey" for polteageist. it's like how hariyama and to some extent houndstone forced you to run a counter AND keep it healthy the entire time or else you lose. probably mildly unhealthy mons but idk, would like to see what home brings before having a firmer stance.
to end this post with some sets, i think mold breaker wisp is an underrated progress making tool. the most common fire checks on teams are wbb corv, regen chomp, and roaring moon, and each of them are significantly neutered by a burn. with mold breaker you ignore purifying salt too, so things like ps garg get neutered for teammates like moth or talonflame. the downside is that you are probably running two fire types, but with ground and water immunites everywhere i find this to be a small issue. the evs on ceruledge are a bit weird but guarentee you live 2 quakes after a +2 bitter blade from defensive chomp, meaning you can 1v1 it after a few interactions at the cost of some speed. you could also run more speed on dirge but the spread i used is outdated and i can't think of a good benchmark for it.
i both really like and hate this core at the same time. i really like it because it makes building teams simple, easy, and makes the tier inviting to newcomers. just slap on these three mons, a breaker, your choice of gambit/scream/tink, and filler, and bam! you have a solid team. but i also hate the core because, between the inherent options these three mons have, you're very hard-pressed to find consistent and reliable counterplay to a core like this. again, this is both good and bad: good because this means you can't mu fish this core easily, making the tier more competitive, but bad because as centralizing as this core is, it's also quite constraining. this isn't me saying that this core is broken and we need to take tiering action, but it's more that the pre-home metagame lacks sufficient options to deal with the core. personally i've been using intimidate corv + regenvest chomp + modest moth but there are plenty of more things this core can run, like va corv, sd chomp, more defensive moth sets, bu immunity corv, lo regen chomp, hadron moth...the list goes on. it's a net neutral for the tier imo but i would love some more ways to deal with it in builder.
probably the best breaker in the tier rn. or maybe progress maker is the better term. either way i find this mon to be super consistent and flexible, with the only drawback in builder being that you give up the ability to run another good mon like treads or garg. i've really been liking ada sor boots sets for their longevity and ability to abuse coverage on switch-ins like ceruledge (broken mon btw) and non-ee dirge, but band/scarf sets are very good funny button clickers/speed control respectively that are solid leads as well, considering you're almost always getting momentum + chip with it. bu sets also sound very scary on paper, but so far i haven't seen anyone make it work since furscales meta. maybe a jolly spread with cc/leech/sun? not sure what ability it would run though.
okay i apologize for underrating talonflame, this mon is cracked and possibly the best wincon in the tier. offensive counterplay is pretty dire considering the lack of scarfers as well as the only faster mons being chien-pao and jolteon, which have their respective drawbacks, so it's really easy to just run into a match where you know you're the fastest thing there. because of this, it can dedicate moveslots to annoying defensive checks like wbb corv and non-ps garg with taunt/wisp respectively. with the massive pex nerf it lost one splashable check that it had last gen, and combined with the lower power level of the tier and bb having 24 pp, it's easy for it to wear down its own checks and just outright win later on. cool mon, would love to see it used more in ompl.
these mons are...annoying. they're not really broken and there's a clear cost to using them in the builder, but they have a very small selection of mons that can beat them, and not running them + giving them a single free turn (which isn't hard considering they set up on most corv) can mean you lose on the spot. i feel like they're stifling creativity in the tier with their limited amount of counters and near lack of defensive checks. i would say this is also a symptom of pre-home meta lacking options, but also because prankster haze is frankly quite bad after the recovery nerf, so it's kinda just "random dazzling mons or scream tail" for chesnaught and "dark-types that aren't weak to fairy or shadow ball blissey" for polteageist. it's like how hariyama and to some extent houndstone forced you to run a counter AND keep it healthy the entire time or else you lose. probably mildly unhealthy mons but idk, would like to see what home brings before having a firmer stance.
to end this post with some sets, i think mold breaker wisp is an underrated progress making tool. the most common fire checks on teams are wbb corv, regen chomp, and roaring moon, and each of them are significantly neutered by a burn. with mold breaker you ignore purifying salt too, so things like ps garg get neutered for teammates like moth or talonflame. the downside is that you are probably running two fire types, but with ground and water immunites everywhere i find this to be a small issue. the evs on ceruledge are a bit weird but guarentee you live 2 quakes after a +2 bitter blade from defensive chomp, meaning you can 1v1 it after a few interactions at the cost of some speed. you could also run more speed on dirge but the spread i used is outdated and i can't think of a good benchmark for it.
Let me re-educate you all on a great set of different times! This will probably be one of the last posts and I am unsure how relevant this will be in a little under 2 days but regardless I want to write so I will. Made it to top 10 with this set so I can say with assurance that it works well in practice, not just theory.
The set in question is....
Fluffy Polteageist
Polteageist @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp
- Strength Sap
Set is basically you spamming Wisp or setting up versus stuff that can't realistically break you. Corviknight is a free switchin even if WBB, Sap Strength keeps you healthy and Hex + Wisp is a great combo that deals great damage due to high natural SPA even uninvested. You can wisp incoming Roaring Moons and cripple them beyond repair and use them as a platform to setup more. Biggest dangers to the set are obviously WBB Kingambit, and Iron Moth both of which are immune to Wisp spam and can tank a few Hexes.
Lack of speed EVs is intentional, you need the max investment for many important 2hko's and potential 1hko's, sacrificing the defense opens you up to easier breaking which is a no no.
Calc's below:
The set in question is....
Fluffy Polteageist
Polteageist @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp
- Strength Sap
Set is basically you spamming Wisp or setting up versus stuff that can't realistically break you. Corviknight is a free switchin even if WBB, Sap Strength keeps you healthy and Hex + Wisp is a great combo that deals great damage due to high natural SPA even uninvested. You can wisp incoming Roaring Moons and cripple them beyond repair and use them as a platform to setup more. Biggest dangers to the set are obviously WBB Kingambit, and Iron Moth both of which are immune to Wisp spam and can tank a few Hexes.
Lack of speed EVs is intentional, you need the max investment for many important 2hko's and potential 1hko's, sacrificing the defense opens you up to easier breaking which is a no no.
Calc's below:
252+ Atk Life Orb Quaquaval Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 125-147 (38.5 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Quaquaval Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 226-267 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 88-103 (27.1 - 31.7%) -- 33.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 88-103 (27.1 - 31.7%) -- 33.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 198-234 (61.1 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Slither Wing U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 60-71 (18.5 - 21.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Slither Wing U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 91-108 (28 - 33.3%) -- 90.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 208-245 (64.1 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 277-327 (85.4 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Meowscarada Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 265-313 (81.7 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Meowscarada Flower Trick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Polteageist on a critical hit: 288-339 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 283-334 (87.3 - 103%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 109-129 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- 22.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Polteageist: 127-151 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Quaquaval Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 226-267 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 88-103 (27.1 - 31.7%) -- 33.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 88-103 (27.1 - 31.7%) -- 33.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 198-234 (61.1 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Slither Wing U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 60-71 (18.5 - 21.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Slither Wing U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 91-108 (28 - 33.3%) -- 90.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 208-245 (64.1 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Slither Wing Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 277-327 (85.4 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Meowscarada Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 265-313 (81.7 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Meowscarada Flower Trick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Polteageist on a critical hit: 288-339 (88.8 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 283-334 (87.3 - 103%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Polteageist: 109-129 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- 22.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Polteageist: 127-151 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
A handy checklist of all the broken shit that Home will give us
I just felt like making it. Lmk if I missed anything, will add it on later
Enamorus
- It's kinda like Lele but just, faster. Like, a LOT faster. SFLO rips through everything. Also great Triage sweeper. Abuse it while you still can.
Sneasler
- Literally nothing switches into CB Sneasler. If you think you do, Dire Claw. Also consider SD here.
Ursaluna
- Snorlax if it was good. Could go a lot of things, TriageDrum, 4 attacks, RegenVest, SD 3a, and more.
Arcanine-Hisui
- Saying this thing hits like a nuke would be an understatement. It 2HKO's a +2 Corv with MGLO Head Smash. Just make sure you have speed control.
Basculegion-M
- Spams Wave Crash and not much else. Does get Head Smash, so might be a good MGLO user, but lack of physical Ghost STAB outside of Phantom Force really sucks.
Electrode-Hisui
- Super fast MGLO user with Volt and Grass STAB. Feels like it'll be Kilowattrel but good.
Enamorus-Therian
- The ultimate Triage sweeper. You better have a damn good plan for this one, or else you are completely and utterly fucked.
Goodra-Hisui
- Great offensive RegenVest candidate, but lacks a switch move. Maybe MGLO Steel Beams too, but probably not.
Meloetta
- Another really good RegenVest candidate, this time having U-Turn! Probably the only "check" to half the special attackers that're releasing with home.
Moltres-Galar
- Seems to have an otherworldly matchup against everything except the RegenVests and Triage Enamorus. Just sets up for free and clicks buttons real good.
Muk-Alola
- A pokemon with Knock Off AND Toxic? In gen 9?! It's a dream come true! RegenVest is also really fucking good.
Volcanion
- Specs go brr. Boots also go brr. You click buttons and then win from there.
Zapdos
- THE RETURN OF THE KING. It lost Weather Ball, but that's no worry, for it still has Hurricane. Goodbye, Kilowattrel, you won't be missed.
Zapdos-Galar
- Basically does the exact same thing it did in gen 8. If you go CB, everything gets OHKO'd. If you go MGLO, everything get 2HKO'd. Maybe it's too much now, idk.
Mew
- Mew lost a lot and really didn't get much to make up for it. I don't think it's gonna be too good, and certainly not the #1 mon in the meta like in gen 8.
Landorus-Incarnate
- It has Nasty Plot, but lost a lot of what makes it good. I don't think it's gonna be very viable.
Landorus-Therian
- This is a weird one. On one hand, it's Landorus, and it can still click U-Turn and Earthquake really good. On the other hand, that's all it can click, because it lost Knock Off, Toxic, and Defog. It'll probably be pretty good, but I don't have high hopes for it.
Zamazenta-Crowned
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I just felt like making it. Lmk if I missed anything, will add it on later
Enamorus
- It's kinda like Lele but just, faster. Like, a LOT faster. SFLO rips through everything. Also great Triage sweeper. Abuse it while you still can.Sneasler
- Literally nothing switches into CB Sneasler. If you think you do, Dire Claw. Also consider SD here.Ursaluna
- Snorlax if it was good. Could go a lot of things, TriageDrum, 4 attacks, RegenVest, SD 3a, and more.Arcanine-Hisui
- Saying this thing hits like a nuke would be an understatement. It 2HKO's a +2 Corv with MGLO Head Smash. Just make sure you have speed control.Basculegion-M
- Spams Wave Crash and not much else. Does get Head Smash, so might be a good MGLO user, but lack of physical Ghost STAB outside of Phantom Force really sucks.Electrode-Hisui
- Super fast MGLO user with Volt and Grass STAB. Feels like it'll be Kilowattrel but good.Enamorus-Therian
- The ultimate Triage sweeper. You better have a damn good plan for this one, or else you are completely and utterly fucked.Goodra-Hisui
- Great offensive RegenVest candidate, but lacks a switch move. Maybe MGLO Steel Beams too, but probably not.Meloetta
- Another really good RegenVest candidate, this time having U-Turn! Probably the only "check" to half the special attackers that're releasing with home.Moltres-Galar
- Seems to have an otherworldly matchup against everything except the RegenVests and Triage Enamorus. Just sets up for free and clicks buttons real good.Muk-Alola
- A pokemon with Knock Off AND Toxic? In gen 9?! It's a dream come true! RegenVest is also really fucking good.Volcanion
- Specs go brr. Boots also go brr. You click buttons and then win from there.Zapdos
- THE RETURN OF THE KING. It lost Weather Ball, but that's no worry, for it still has Hurricane. Goodbye, Kilowattrel, you won't be missed.Zapdos-Galar
- Basically does the exact same thing it did in gen 8. If you go CB, everything gets OHKO'd. If you go MGLO, everything get 2HKO'd. Maybe it's too much now, idk.Mew
- Mew lost a lot and really didn't get much to make up for it. I don't think it's gonna be too good, and certainly not the #1 mon in the meta like in gen 8.Landorus-Incarnate
- It has Nasty Plot, but lost a lot of what makes it good. I don't think it's gonna be very viable.Landorus-Therian
- This is a weird one. On one hand, it's Landorus, and it can still click U-Turn and Earthquake really good. On the other hand, that's all it can click, because it lost Knock Off, Toxic, and Defog. It'll probably be pretty good, but I don't have high hopes for it.Zamazenta-Crowned
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Hoopa-U is on the initial banlist. Regular Hoopa will be allowed, though.A handy checklist of all the broken shit that Home will give us
I just felt like making it. Lmk if I missed anything, will add it on later
Enamorus
Sneasler
Ursaluna
Arcanine-Hisui
Hoopa-Unbound- lol. lmao, even.
Basculegion-M
Electrode-Hisui
Enamorus-Therian
Goodra-Hisui
Meloetta
Moltres-Galar
Muk-Alola
Volcanion
Zapdos
Zapdos-Galar
Mew
Landorus-Incarnate
Landorus-Therian
Zamazenta-Crowned
my b, been edited out, thanks
With all the Home hype i think i wanna just talk about some of the mons in this current metagame before it changes. Sometimes its hard to remember how exactly you felt about one specific metagame many formats back. Even now i can forget how exactly it was with furscales, or in the tusk dengo metagame. Call it record keeping, of my own personal record.
Hes him, back again for another gen. And by that i mean hes not him, again. The same old dies really easily to things it should beat. However, fluffy is him. Its like pretty wild, like playing with furcoat. You eat up banded Sor double shock. Im not a fan of intim personally even though majority of people are. The only relevant thing its better vs is Chien-Pao. WBB is cope and loses to most of the fires and the main fire (moth). However it stops some sets/mons (skeledirge) people trying to get greedy with. Volt Absorb is kinda neat sometimes for blocking iron treads not really worth it though. Sadly ends up simply necessary on most comps to beat stuff like Meowscarada
This may just be the best mon in the tier. Its either this or Corv and that only gets nominated based on usage. It puts in insane amounts of work every game. It fits on literally every team and is likely the best offensive/defensive partner for whatever fun mon youre trying to build with. Best pivot in the tier, checks so much defensively. The offensive sets are kinda mid but Desolate Land Boots FieryDance/Discharge/U-turn/MorningSun is broken. I've been really liking bulky modest lately but any ev spread works. With rocks up and u-turn you can really do the thing and beat things over long games. I've literally broken Goodra + Garg + WBB cores with this before. It also plays in a non passive way, and you can do stuff like bring it into Corv or a wishing scream tail to not let the opponent gain any real initiative where they otherwise would have.
I was really high on this mon earlier and its still the best regen and is great and all but kind of leaves you vulnerable to volt-turn as really its only flaw. Also because of its prevelance it can get fished on typing by stuff like Hydreigon. Best and really the only comfortable Moth check in the tier which will always proppel it up. Also loses to Corv really badly but only if they have the fishy breaker like Hydrei and you dont have counters in the back. Otherwise you get free turns and some teams cant meaningfully punish. Its fun staying in on Pixilate Scream Tail to get free rocks. He takes all the punishment in the tier and gets up the hazards, over and over. Sometimes with defensive SD it wins over a super long game if you have built the team well around it.
Propaganda time but this mon sucks. But its also really broken. But no it sucks(exagg, playful). The yin-yang of it. It walls literally every mon ever made even on super-effective hits (walls kingambit lol) and passes wishes to stuff like Kingambit. But at the same time it lets support utility mons have their way with it and saps momentum. Sometimes the opponent cant do anything with that, and then it puts in insane value. But othertimes esp vs good players its just kinda there as you go to it every turn and get nowhere. Its so passive and weak that you can fish vs it with everything, and make random pivots and such around it to deny the wish pass. Also it has to play really scared of knock and status and hazards/chip as sometimes it only "beats everything" by taking 45% from each hit. Still gives you like remarkable consistency however esp vs ladder and like a lot of (bad) teams simply cannot do anything about it. CM should never win the game but again it sometimes sweeps bad teams (or HO teams, this mon MURDERS HO). It definitely warps the tier around it however and i have to give it the props it deserves. Oh yeah dont use Pixilate its bad, stop. (Use unaware Sylveon its better)
i wanna like it but this mon mid i just go to my fluffy rocky helmet body press Corviknight and it does nothing (biased). Its cool it can break on well made HO and stuff but i feel like you really gotta be skillfull with it and put that work in to get value out of it. WBB is cool and sometimes with +2/+2 it sweeps teams but ive always thought you shouldnt bring fire moves if you cant handle WBB gambit. WBB also falls prey to the classic discharge paralyze U-turn chip cycle from Moth. Also the physical fires randomly carry HJK/CC.
This mon is kinda cracked it kills everything ever except intim/fluff corviknight but then it kinda falls into the same interactions we had in gen 8 with stuff vs intim corv except this time you have to carefully conserve your one powerful knock off. Very fast mon too.
This mon is Broken i am ever confused on how it sees low usage. It flat out 6-0s too much stuff. Scream Tail does not save you from this. Garganacl (sans powergem) is setup fodder. Often it is the fastest mon on both teams. Bulk up/Brave bird/Roost + Wisp/Taunt is like Heracross2.0 said the best wincon in the tier. It also leverages its fast speed and good resistances to help out the team. And spreads burns. It can really get annoyed by something like a Corviknight pivoting to a scarf Rotom-Wash, however that can always lose to a teched Flare Blitz which should be explored as an option more probably idk. If its WBB Corv, youre kinda cooked but oh well. (They need to be Bulk up/idef to beat you but all WBB corvs should be that, also taunt beats WBB Corv). The disrespect is crazy too, i feel like im the only person running powergem on everything for it. Contrary to popular belief i am Talonflames Strongest Soldier currently not @UT.
This mon got the GLOW UP. It was kinda whatever but as this current meta develops more and stuff like Great Tusk and Gholdengo gets banned it gets more and more cracked. Its flat out the best raw physical attacker. Great typing/bulk lets you get in on stuff like Chomp for relatively free. First Impression revenges everything. Then you can U-turn on their switch-in (jk there is no switchins just kill them with CC).
Banded CC pops Corviknight, and if it doesnt then Flare Blitz super does. Nothing really takes this you kinda just have to pivot around and stuff. Also the strongest stab U-Turn ever. I think you should not bother with any of that Mglo etc stuff. Just go raw Sor/Tinted band and watch things drop. Like someone else said earlier "if you have rocks up and have a slither wing on your side you just win". Scream Tail admittedly does wall this pretty okay though.
Chien Chien isnt real and then i disrespect it in building and then lose to it. But oh wait theres a Scream Tail here nvm it does nothing again. Banded Sor/some equivalent i think is the best set the rest lose to Corviknight too easily.
I really like this mon, underrated af. It preys on the current fire checks being "handle it spdef chomp, scream tail, or wbb corv ig" With the MGLO SD/FlareBlitz/HJK/U-turn set which i think is the best. I can see some kind of desolate land set also working though. Its so fast and solid enough bulk to really annoy those Corv/Chomp/Moth/Scream + 2 filler attackers teams. It keeps up momentum vs a lot and you can lead it pretty comfortably. Pairs amazingly with Moth. Overall though might be worse than Talonflame. I just like it personally. Feels real good to use a Cinderace without Zapdos in the picture.
This mon sucks shouldnt even be A- tier youre playing 5-6 if they brought a regen ground, or a mglo mon. Garganacl sweeps low-mid ladder really badly though. It holds the niche of being a psuedo blissey in that its the only thing with enough raw spdef to take stuff like a Hydreigon Dark pulse. But like its so exploitable, really is just that.
Kinda does its thing idk i feel like it lost all its niche when Gengar and Hizo got banned.
This mon used to be a terror. But now i think its gotten a bit worse with so much Intim Corv/Iron Moth usage. However it can still beat both of those which is cool. Theres a lot of teching to be done with the moveset like SD + Brave Bird, SD + Spin + Stabs, Raw Brave Bird, anything with setup/taunt/spin/etc/etc it learns every good move. I think it mainly just lost its niche when Slither Wing became the premier fighting type. The MGLO utility really clean though
this mon is the GOAAATT. It knocks, it spins, it gets up rocks, and it volt switchs. Somehow fit EQ into that and you have the utility king. Nothing Scream Tail hates seeing more than this guy. You give him turns, he does everything with them. Earth Eater single handedly destroys those Corv/Chomp/Scream balances. So so so many Corviknights knocked off, then gotten rocks up on, then volt switched down to 14% until they sack it.
Earth Eater Treads is why i run Liquidation on almost all my Garchomps, i cant be giving him turns for that free and that easily. You will most likely win the hazard game if you have treads on your team.
hes cool but kinda mid still loses to spdef chomp (ik it can beat it but at the same time too much effort on top of all the other factors). He finds himself on a lot of Offenses though because of the defensive utility in the typing. Sometimes Bitter Blade wins.
hes also cool but kinda mid idk i just personally never really found a right comp with him but others have. Always somehow bulkier than you think but at the same time not as bulky as you think.
etc. Really annoying special breakers because good typing and the special counterplay overall is pretty meh rn. Hydrei especially hard to punish with no tapus + pink blobs bad
Speaking of which i think this mon is bad. Isaiah will disagree with me and find it a way onto his teams. I feel like it loses to Iron Moth too much but thats probably fixable in the builder but at the same time with what. If it beat Iron Moth easier id like it more.
Cool stuff really unique and valueable typing Treads kinda does what it does better though (but fairy/steel is a valid niche)
this mon really fell off and it makes sense because regen grounds destroy it but at the same time i feel like its so warping in that it forces those onto everything and its underrated (its bad though because garchomp tier but man). That Sub IDBP set however though is pretty hilarious that i invented btw (but idt anyone cared at the time so not really)
Underrated: Anything with Technician Loaded Dice + setup damn they annoying but thats a me issue.
I think if this metagame were to develop further more optimized volt-turn or mini volt-turn cores would get better and more effecient. Even now i feel stuff like
and gets better and better.
TLDR: So yeah thanks for not reading all these words! (i dont blame you). I just felt like talking about pokemon. To those reading in the future and in the past and present, this is just one persons opinion and bias's. Also sorry for not going through every mon i got like most of them though!
Hes him, back again for another gen. And by that i mean hes not him, again. The same old dies really easily to things it should beat. However, fluffy is him. Its like pretty wild, like playing with furcoat. You eat up banded Sor double shock. Im not a fan of intim personally even though majority of people are. The only relevant thing its better vs is Chien-Pao. WBB is cope and loses to most of the fires and the main fire (moth). However it stops some sets/mons (skeledirge) people trying to get greedy with. Volt Absorb is kinda neat sometimes for blocking iron treads not really worth it though. Sadly ends up simply necessary on most comps to beat stuff like Meowscarada This may just be the best mon in the tier. Its either this or Corv and that only gets nominated based on usage. It puts in insane amounts of work every game. It fits on literally every team and is likely the best offensive/defensive partner for whatever fun mon youre trying to build with. Best pivot in the tier, checks so much defensively. The offensive sets are kinda mid but Desolate Land Boots FieryDance/Discharge/U-turn/MorningSun is broken. I've been really liking bulky modest lately but any ev spread works. With rocks up and u-turn you can really do the thing and beat things over long games. I've literally broken Goodra + Garg + WBB cores with this before. It also plays in a non passive way, and you can do stuff like bring it into Corv or a wishing scream tail to not let the opponent gain any real initiative where they otherwise would have. I was really high on this mon earlier and its still the best regen and is great and all but kind of leaves you vulnerable to volt-turn as really its only flaw. Also because of its prevelance it can get fished on typing by stuff like Hydreigon. Best and really the only comfortable Moth check in the tier which will always proppel it up. Also loses to Corv really badly but only if they have the fishy breaker like Hydrei and you dont have counters in the back. Otherwise you get free turns and some teams cant meaningfully punish. Its fun staying in on Pixilate Scream Tail to get free rocks. He takes all the punishment in the tier and gets up the hazards, over and over. Sometimes with defensive SD it wins over a super long game if you have built the team well around it. Propaganda time but this mon sucks. But its also really broken. But no it sucks(exagg, playful). The yin-yang of it. It walls literally every mon ever made even on super-effective hits (walls kingambit lol) and passes wishes to stuff like Kingambit. But at the same time it lets support utility mons have their way with it and saps momentum. Sometimes the opponent cant do anything with that, and then it puts in insane value. But othertimes esp vs good players its just kinda there as you go to it every turn and get nowhere. Its so passive and weak that you can fish vs it with everything, and make random pivots and such around it to deny the wish pass. Also it has to play really scared of knock and status and hazards/chip as sometimes it only "beats everything" by taking 45% from each hit. Still gives you like remarkable consistency however esp vs ladder and like a lot of (bad) teams simply cannot do anything about it. CM should never win the game but again it sometimes sweeps bad teams (or HO teams, this mon MURDERS HO). It definitely warps the tier around it however and i have to give it the props it deserves. Oh yeah dont use Pixilate its bad, stop. (Use unaware Sylveon its better) i wanna like it but this mon mid i just go to my fluffy rocky helmet body press Corviknight and it does nothing (biased). Its cool it can break on well made HO and stuff but i feel like you really gotta be skillfull with it and put that work in to get value out of it. WBB is cool and sometimes with +2/+2 it sweeps teams but ive always thought you shouldnt bring fire moves if you cant handle WBB gambit. WBB also falls prey to the classic discharge paralyze U-turn chip cycle from Moth. Also the physical fires randomly carry HJK/CC. This mon is kinda cracked it kills everything ever except intim/fluff corviknight but then it kinda falls into the same interactions we had in gen 8 with stuff vs intim corv except this time you have to carefully conserve your one powerful knock off. Very fast mon too. This mon is Broken i am ever confused on how it sees low usage. It flat out 6-0s too much stuff. Scream Tail does not save you from this. Garganacl (sans powergem) is setup fodder. Often it is the fastest mon on both teams. Bulk up/Brave bird/Roost + Wisp/Taunt is like Heracross2.0 said the best wincon in the tier. It also leverages its fast speed and good resistances to help out the team. And spreads burns. It can really get annoyed by something like a Corviknight pivoting to a scarf Rotom-Wash, however that can always lose to a teched Flare Blitz which should be explored as an option more probably idk. If its WBB Corv, youre kinda cooked but oh well. (They need to be Bulk up/idef to beat you but all WBB corvs should be that, also taunt beats WBB Corv). The disrespect is crazy too, i feel like im the only person running powergem on everything for it. Contrary to popular belief i am Talonflames Strongest Soldier currently not @UT. This mon got the GLOW UP. It was kinda whatever but as this current meta develops more and stuff like Great Tusk and Gholdengo gets banned it gets more and more cracked. Its flat out the best raw physical attacker. Great typing/bulk lets you get in on stuff like Chomp for relatively free. First Impression revenges everything. Then you can U-turn on their switch-in (jk there is no switchins just kill them with CC). Banded CC pops Corviknight, and if it doesnt then Flare Blitz super does. Nothing really takes this you kinda just have to pivot around and stuff. Also the strongest stab U-Turn ever. I think you should not bother with any of that Mglo etc stuff. Just go raw Sor/Tinted band and watch things drop. Like someone else said earlier "if you have rocks up and have a slither wing on your side you just win". Scream Tail admittedly does wall this pretty okay though.
Chien Chien isnt real and then i disrespect it in building and then lose to it. But oh wait theres a Scream Tail here nvm it does nothing again. Banded Sor/some equivalent i think is the best set the rest lose to Corviknight too easily. I really like this mon, underrated af. It preys on the current fire checks being "handle it spdef chomp, scream tail, or wbb corv ig" With the MGLO SD/FlareBlitz/HJK/U-turn set which i think is the best. I can see some kind of desolate land set also working though. Its so fast and solid enough bulk to really annoy those Corv/Chomp/Moth/Scream + 2 filler attackers teams. It keeps up momentum vs a lot and you can lead it pretty comfortably. Pairs amazingly with Moth. Overall though might be worse than Talonflame. I just like it personally. Feels real good to use a Cinderace without Zapdos in the picture. This mon sucks shouldnt even be A- tier youre playing 5-6 if they brought a regen ground, or a mglo mon. Garganacl sweeps low-mid ladder really badly though. It holds the niche of being a psuedo blissey in that its the only thing with enough raw spdef to take stuff like a Hydreigon Dark pulse. But like its so exploitable, really is just that. Kinda does its thing idk i feel like it lost all its niche when Gengar and Hizo got banned. This mon used to be a terror. But now i think its gotten a bit worse with so much Intim Corv/Iron Moth usage. However it can still beat both of those which is cool. Theres a lot of teching to be done with the moveset like SD + Brave Bird, SD + Spin + Stabs, Raw Brave Bird, anything with setup/taunt/spin/etc/etc it learns every good move. I think it mainly just lost its niche when Slither Wing became the premier fighting type. The MGLO utility really clean though this mon is the GOAAATT. It knocks, it spins, it gets up rocks, and it volt switchs. Somehow fit EQ into that and you have the utility king. Nothing Scream Tail hates seeing more than this guy. You give him turns, he does everything with them. Earth Eater single handedly destroys those Corv/Chomp/Scream balances. So so so many Corviknights knocked off, then gotten rocks up on, then volt switched down to 14% until they sack it. Earth Eater Treads is why i run Liquidation on almost all my Garchomps, i cant be giving him turns for that free and that easily. You will most likely win the hazard game if you have treads on your team.
hes cool but kinda mid still loses to spdef chomp (ik it can beat it but at the same time too much effort on top of all the other factors). He finds himself on a lot of Offenses though because of the defensive utility in the typing. Sometimes Bitter Blade wins. hes also cool but kinda mid idk i just personally never really found a right comp with him but others have. Always somehow bulkier than you think but at the same time not as bulky as you think. etc. Really annoying special breakers because good typing and the special counterplay overall is pretty meh rn. Hydrei especially hard to punish with no tapus + pink blobs bad Speaking of which i think this mon is bad. Isaiah will disagree with me and find it a way onto his teams. I feel like it loses to Iron Moth too much but thats probably fixable in the builder but at the same time with what. If it beat Iron Moth easier id like it more. Cool stuff really unique and valueable typing Treads kinda does what it does better though (but fairy/steel is a valid niche) this mon really fell off and it makes sense because regen grounds destroy it but at the same time i feel like its so warping in that it forces those onto everything and its underrated (its bad though because garchomp tier but man). That Sub IDBP set however though is pretty hilarious Underrated: Anything with Technician Loaded Dice + setup damn they annoying but thats a me issue.
I think if this metagame were to develop further more optimized volt-turn or mini volt-turn cores would get better and more effecient. Even now i feel stuff like
and gets better and better. TLDR: So yeah thanks for not reading all these words! (i dont blame you). I just felt like talking about pokemon. To those reading in the future and in the past and present, this is just one persons opinion and bias's. Also sorry for not going through every mon i got like most of them though!
LatiasDigs
formerly digitalson
I made a previous post about triage ursaluna, since then i have refined the sets to be way better and the one made to kill scream tail actually does now (wow!)
both sets can break fluffy corv, body press fluffy corv has a chance but needs to make correct decisions
Errata: i have discovered that the fast set does not actually need eq, rock slide+gunk shot covers every thing you need it to, thus *both* set variants can kill stail, thus the sets have been renamed after the ev spreads
Ursaluna @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Def / 72 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 17 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Gunk Shot
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Def / 72 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 17 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Gunk Shot
Ursaluna @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 108 SpD / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Rock Slide
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 108 SpD / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Rock Slide
both sets can break fluffy corv, body press fluffy corv has a chance but needs to make correct decisions
Errata: i have discovered that the fast set does not actually need eq, rock slide+gunk shot covers every thing you need it to, thus *both* set variants can kill stail, thus the sets have been renamed after the ev spreads
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I just ran into groudon on the ladder. Is it supposed to be legal? https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1874192294
THE AAA COUNCIL HAS UNANIMOUSLY VOTED TO BAN GROUDON
No this was an error, thank you for pointing it out; will hopefully be fixed soon.
Home's Finally Out and the meta (especially ladder) is certainly different. Lot of HO as to be expected with new toy syndrome and before the initial bans, yet despite that have hit 1600 with these two teams
For the First Team I wanted to test out AV Goodra, and its actually pretty solid as an RegenVester with its typing and huge Special Defense. The Tran Set was to test it out vs things like Garchomp but unfortunately I've not run into any so far. I opted to go unaware for Corv in anticipation of Ursaluna being spammed which has turned out to be right, and in general is pretty good vs Hyper Offensive teams. Enamorus is a special breaker that can also break most of the special walls with its coverage and superpower, while Quav is another Physically defensive mon that can check things that Corv Can't like Slither Wing, Pao and H-Arcanine. Talon I opted for the last slot as a potential Win Con and also something that can "check" the standard enamorus set.
Inspired by some discussions I decided to build a Serene Grace Dire Claw Team. Sneasler with the set can be pretty funny hitting corv or other steels with Dire Claw and inflicting status across a team, though will probably need to run Swords Dance > Substitute if it wants to actually break stuff. Arcanine-Hisui is a cool Rocker that can actually threaten Corviknight, and Magic Guard Head Smash/Flare Blitz is always fun to click. Corviknight and Enam are the same set as the first team, and I opted to use Meloetta as my RegenVester as it can switch-in and threaten both enams with psyshock and can also uturn which is a big boon. Garchomp is another pysdef mon to compliment corv and also a spike setter so that its teammates can abuse hazard chip or even itself with Dragon Tail.
Some more elaborate thoughts on certain mons:
- Maybe it's just my teams that I run that do naturally well vs it but I don't find it overly busted as of right now. Dire Claw RNG is annoying sure but it's not really going to be breaking past Corv or Fluffy Mons unless it's SD and can get some luck involved. It's coverage option's aren't the best either, and can get walled by bulky grounds like Chomp or more niche options like the sand castle. Though while I can see it being banned by dire claw being uncompetitive, I just don't think its overtly broken as of right now (maybe someone will change that in OMPL though who knows?)
Edit: Nah this mon is insane lmaoooo
- This thing is insanely broken, and unless you're going out of your way with things like Earth Eater Skeledirge it has little to no things that can consistently check it. Sheer Force with Moonblast Earth Power Mystical Fire and Superpower is all you need, as you can beat the majority of things including H-Goodra with Moonblast ~> Superpower reliably. It's speed tier is also pretty good, though tying with treads does kinda suck at times. This thing should be quick banned with its potent wall breaking ability and good speed tier.
- Ursaluna has been a talking point in the OM Discord with users like LatiasDigs trying to push the Belly Drum Triage Set. While I think that set can be pretty good given the right matchup, I don't think it's necessarily the best Triage Set, as Swords Dance can be a viable alternative without having any of the repercussions that Drum has and can allow Ursa to run Life Orb. Sure the immediate boost might be missed on some things, but often time the +6 isn't always needed and has a better matchup vs things like Scream Tail. Other Sets like Regen and Magic Guard seem fun too that I definitely want to try down the road too.
- Iron Defense Body Press is pretty nice and can do a lot of damage, and it's bulk makes it very hard to be revenged. I don't know if it's entirely broken with unaware around but it's very strong and the lack of defensive ghosts can make it awkward to check, I'll just have to see/test more of it.
- The Triage Sets are probably broken with double dance and earth power that can make it hard to kill. It has better bulk and coverage than Hatterene but losing out on psyshock can hurt a bit and also loses the CM War to unaware scream tail. I don't see it being quick banned initially but can def see it not lasting for long.
- Going to still be mandatory on basically every team as it's still the best defogger in the tier and a good physical check to a lot of things. I've been opting for unaware as mentioned earlier to better check Hyper Offensive teams, but can see it returning back to its more standard sets as the meta stabilizes with Fluffy/Intim (preferably the latter since Pao is crazy lol).
For the First Team I wanted to test out AV Goodra, and its actually pretty solid as an RegenVester with its typing and huge Special Defense. The Tran Set was to test it out vs things like Garchomp but unfortunately I've not run into any so far. I opted to go unaware for Corv in anticipation of Ursaluna being spammed which has turned out to be right, and in general is pretty good vs Hyper Offensive teams. Enamorus is a special breaker that can also break most of the special walls with its coverage and superpower, while Quav is another Physically defensive mon that can check things that Corv Can't like Slither Wing, Pao and H-Arcanine. Talon I opted for the last slot as a potential Win Con and also something that can "check" the standard enamorus set.
Inspired by some discussions I decided to build a Serene Grace Dire Claw Team. Sneasler with the set can be pretty funny hitting corv or other steels with Dire Claw and inflicting status across a team, though will probably need to run Swords Dance > Substitute if it wants to actually break stuff. Arcanine-Hisui is a cool Rocker that can actually threaten Corviknight, and Magic Guard Head Smash/Flare Blitz is always fun to click. Corviknight and Enam are the same set as the first team, and I opted to use Meloetta as my RegenVester as it can switch-in and threaten both enams with psyshock and can also uturn which is a big boon. Garchomp is another pysdef mon to compliment corv and also a spike setter so that its teammates can abuse hazard chip or even itself with Dragon Tail.
Some more elaborate thoughts on certain mons:
- Maybe it's just my teams that I run that do naturally well vs it but I don't find it overly busted as of right now. Dire Claw RNG is annoying sure but it's not really going to be breaking past Corv or Fluffy Mons unless it's SD and can get some luck involved. It's coverage option's aren't the best either, and can get walled by bulky grounds like Chomp or more niche options like the sand castle. Though while I can see it being banned by dire claw being uncompetitive, I just don't think its overtly broken as of right now (maybe someone will change that in OMPL though who knows?)Edit: Nah this mon is insane lmaoooo
- This thing is insanely broken, and unless you're going out of your way with things like Earth Eater Skeledirge it has little to no things that can consistently check it. Sheer Force with Moonblast Earth Power Mystical Fire and Superpower is all you need, as you can beat the majority of things including H-Goodra with Moonblast ~> Superpower reliably. It's speed tier is also pretty good, though tying with treads does kinda suck at times. This thing should be quick banned with its potent wall breaking ability and good speed tier. - Ursaluna has been a talking point in the OM Discord with users like LatiasDigs trying to push the Belly Drum Triage Set. While I think that set can be pretty good given the right matchup, I don't think it's necessarily the best Triage Set, as Swords Dance can be a viable alternative without having any of the repercussions that Drum has and can allow Ursa to run Life Orb. Sure the immediate boost might be missed on some things, but often time the +6 isn't always needed and has a better matchup vs things like Scream Tail. Other Sets like Regen and Magic Guard seem fun too that I definitely want to try down the road too. - Iron Defense Body Press is pretty nice and can do a lot of damage, and it's bulk makes it very hard to be revenged. I don't know if it's entirely broken with unaware around but it's very strong and the lack of defensive ghosts can make it awkward to check, I'll just have to see/test more of it. - The Triage Sets are probably broken with double dance and earth power that can make it hard to kill. It has better bulk and coverage than Hatterene but losing out on psyshock can hurt a bit and also loses the CM War to unaware scream tail. I don't see it being quick banned initially but can def see it not lasting for long. - Going to still be mandatory on basically every team as it's still the best defogger in the tier and a good physical check to a lot of things. I've been opting for unaware as mentioned earlier to better check Hyper Offensive teams, but can see it returning back to its more standard sets as the meta stabilizes with Fluffy/Intim (preferably the latter since Pao is crazy lol).
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^ context for what's below
webs team with only home mons, use it while it's legal
prelim thoughts:
-sneasler might be unbalanced, idk, but i wanna cheese people with serene grace dire claw and see what happens. i only switched to adaptabilty because everyone was using corv
-groudon only did 47% to a scream tail before i went mold breaker, balanced mon
-there's data confirming spidops was supposed to have a forme that would come via HOME, just imagine this spidops as that one
-ursaluna is probably broken, i only used qf taunt because i thought it was funny but triage sets unironically sound mega scary and decently difficult to prep for in conjuction with guts sets (fluffy corv + unaware scream tail on every team anyone?)
-azelf is cool to have back, no expanding force sucks but psychic is good enough in this meta
-enarmous is like if they made better lele, nuff said
-corrision alolan muk is the best set imo, unblockable toxic + knock is huge and a great progress maker if you're not running a mg mon
-delphox might have a niche but i'm too lazy to explore it right now
impressions of the home meta rn, making this quick cos UT loves forum posts
our 2 (3) brokos
first we have sneasler. its crazy af, idt i need to post the insane calcs of either banded sets or sd sets, like doing 55% to a 0hp/0-def enamorus-i. as a quad resistant attack doing that much I'd say its pre broko (then again tranq ur enam had basically 0 physdef)
second is enamorus-i. this is also broko af, sf moonblasts are some of the dumbest attacks ever, and has superpower to say no to blissey and goodra-h. it also has really good coverage that hits everything perfectly unless theyre smth like physdef ee heatran
???
rn, a lot of new toy syndrome is flowing on ladder but ill say what ive seen for now.
arcah can bring teams down easily if they dont have a specific mon like chomp / qua or if its been worn down over a long period of time. jolly is nice, but personally adamant flame charge is the best set by far, fight me
hoodra is on ladder quite a bit but i see it as a B tier mon, it doesn't check too much rn imo
melo is a good regenvester, has good stats, decent stabs, pivoting move. what more do you need?
luna is kinda busted. even without stab dpunch still can 2hko nearly anything with bdrum bar fluffy corv / any mon in general with physdef that isnt weak to dpunch. is triage the issue? we shall see
zamac isnt good, sure ironpress but it has no ability after switching out once and still has a fire weakness as well as no reliable recovery. smth like bandpao sacred sword prob kills after chip
our 2 (3) brokos
first we have sneasler. its crazy af, idt i need to post the insane calcs of either banded sets or sd sets, like doing 55% to a 0hp/0-def enamorus-i. as a quad resistant attack doing that much I'd say its pre broko (then again tranq ur enam had basically 0 physdef)
second is enamorus-i. this is also broko af, sf moonblasts are some of the dumbest attacks ever, and has superpower to say no to blissey and goodra-h. it also has really good coverage that hits everything perfectly unless theyre smth like physdef ee heatran
???rn, a lot of new toy syndrome is flowing on ladder but ill say what ive seen for now.
arcah can bring teams down easily if they dont have a specific mon like chomp / qua or if its been worn down over a long period of time. jolly is nice, but personally adamant flame charge is the best set by far, fight me
hoodra is on ladder quite a bit but i see it as a B tier mon, it doesn't check too much rn imo
melo is a good regenvester, has good stats, decent stabs, pivoting move. what more do you need?
luna is kinda busted. even without stab dpunch still can 2hko nearly anything with bdrum bar fluffy corv / any mon in general with physdef that isnt weak to dpunch. is triage the issue? we shall see
zamac isnt good, sure ironpress but it has no ability after switching out once and still has a fire weakness as well as no reliable recovery. smth like bandpao sacred sword prob kills after chip
They might've gutted Mew's movepool and left it with scraps, but if you think that means it's no longer capable of giving you incredible flexibility in just about every matchup, you're wrong.
I already advertised this mon back in gen 8 because I had almost 100% usage with it, and the set this time around isn't all that different:
Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch / U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick
- Spikes / Ice Beam / U-turn
The Speed is enough to outspeed Barraskewda (although realistically, if they bring that mon you probably already have an advantage), and I added a little extra to speed creep people who are speed creeping people who are speed creeping people (who might be speed creeping other people). The general idea is that Mew has good enough natural bulk to live 1-2 hits from most things and make progress in some way no matter what--usually by pivoting, but item swapping and crippling things with wisp is always an option. I don't have any teams I'm ready to share yet, but the cool thing about using this Mew is that it probably fits on every team :P
I already advertised this mon back in gen 8 because I had almost 100% usage with it, and the set this time around isn't all that different:
Mew @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch / U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick
- Spikes / Ice Beam / U-turn
The Speed is enough to outspeed Barraskewda (although realistically, if they bring that mon you probably already have an advantage), and I added a little extra to speed creep people who are speed creeping people who are speed creeping people (who might be speed creeping other people). The general idea is that Mew has good enough natural bulk to live 1-2 hits from most things and make progress in some way no matter what--usually by pivoting, but item swapping and crippling things with wisp is always an option. I don't have any teams I'm ready to share yet, but the cool thing about using this Mew is that it probably fits on every team :P
New Speed Tiers!
Pokemon Home has dropped. Teambuilding is hard. What am i even building around and for?
Well if it helps we have a new and updated Speed tiers!
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/almost-any-ability-resources.3710571/post-9390609
Direct link ^ (the images arent messed up)
Pokemon Home has dropped. Teambuilding is hard. What am i even building around and for?
Well if it helps we have a new and updated Speed tiers!
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/almost-any-ability-resources.3710571/post-9390609
Direct link ^ (the images arent messed up)
Last edited:
Yes, all of us contributed equally to this project!
After using it for a total of 5 games, I've come to the realization that this is Meh at best, it's waaaaay too slow and is walled by Meloetta completely. I just saw it OHKO Corvi and Enamorus-I and the dopamine spiked for me. It's still a decent wallbreaker, but probably not meta-defining
BROKENS
It's been like less than a day lol but despite the still chaotic nature of the current meta, it's pretty clear (at least to me) that there's 3 mons we need to talk about (and preferably get rid of quickly plz).
Oof ouch where did my wall go. More seriously this thing is a major pain in the ass to properly wall without resorting to dire measures like specially defensive Moltres or EE Skeledirgeuntil people start running Tinted Specs! Meloetta and Alolan-Muk are nice options that means I haven't found it as bad although the neutrality to SFLO Moonblast (and Muks weakness to EP) means they can too be overwhelmed. Thing has a neat quad Fighting and Bug resist as well along with a plethora of random options it could potentially invest in (mixed Play Rough, Subsitute, Calm Mind and so on...) as well as a decent speed tier.
It's like Hariyama, but on steroids (or I guess lesser Iron Hands again lol). It may not have STAB on Drain Punch but that doesn't make its Belly Drum Triage sets any less stupid and fishy, more because it has INSANE bulk behind Screens. Recalling an experience I saw shared in the council
That was an Adamant Choice Banded Sword of Ruin Zapdos Close Combat... It limits counterplay severely as it can just live whatever can live a DPunch and kill it with a second DPunch or hit with something else and kill it. Even previous Unaware mons like Sylveon just die to coverage like Gunk Shot and Scream Tail doesn't have the best time either. It even has actual viable sets outside of BDrum, I haven't tried defensive sets but MGLO and Guts w/ SD or BU are also extremely potent breakers in their own right. I want this thing gone, or Triageor Belly Drum
Mon predicted to be broken indeed turns out to be broken. 130 base Attack with 120 base Speed, SD, STAB Close Combat and options in U-turn, Switcheroo and Fire Punch (for Fluffy Corviknight) makes for an already very scary mon not too dissimilar to the other strong Fighting types last gen like Terrakion and Galarian Zapdos. The extra icing on the cake really is Dire Claw, which is a supremely dumb move lol. If you're not a Steel type (and I don't know any Steel type that walls this thing, and don't say Corviknight it is not a wall lol because it can die to +2 LO CC or just 2 Banded CCs after slight chip) you can just get bullshit'd by Dire Claw sleeping, paralysing or poisoning your answer. Even Covert Cloak can be trolled with the virtue of Switcheroo Ring Target (yeah THANKS Isaiah for bringing this upon the metagame).
Is there other broken stuff? Idk lol everything's a mess right now but at the very least these three have become quickly prominent above the other stuff released.
It's been like less than a day lol but despite the still chaotic nature of the current meta, it's pretty clear (at least to me) that there's 3 mons we need to talk about (and preferably get rid of quickly plz).
Oof ouch where did my wall go. More seriously this thing is a major pain in the ass to properly wall without resorting to dire measures like specially defensive Moltres or EE Skeledirge
It's like Hariyama, but on steroids (or I guess lesser Iron Hands again lol). It may not have STAB on Drain Punch but that doesn't make its Belly Drum Triage sets any less stupid and fishy, more because it has INSANE bulk behind Screens. Recalling an experience I saw shared in the council
The opposing Ursaluna used Drain Punch! It's not very effective... (Zapdos lost 70.7% of its health!) Zapdos had its energy drained! Zapdos used Close Combat! It's super effective! (The opposing Ursaluna lost 87% of its health!) Zapdos's Defense fell! Zapdos's Sp. Def fell!
That was an Adamant Choice Banded Sword of Ruin Zapdos Close Combat... It limits counterplay severely as it can just live whatever can live a DPunch and kill it with a second DPunch or hit with something else and kill it. Even previous Unaware mons like Sylveon just die to coverage like Gunk Shot and Scream Tail doesn't have the best time either. It even has actual viable sets outside of BDrum, I haven't tried defensive sets but MGLO and Guts w/ SD or BU are also extremely potent breakers in their own right. I want this thing gone, or Triage
Mon predicted to be broken indeed turns out to be broken. 130 base Attack with 120 base Speed, SD, STAB Close Combat and options in U-turn, Switcheroo and Fire Punch (for Fluffy Corviknight) makes for an already very scary mon not too dissimilar to the other strong Fighting types last gen like Terrakion and Galarian Zapdos. The extra icing on the cake really is Dire Claw, which is a supremely dumb move lol. If you're not a Steel type (and I don't know any Steel type that walls this thing, and don't say Corviknight it is not a wall lol because it can die to +2 LO CC or just 2 Banded CCs after slight chip) you can just get bullshit'd by Dire Claw sleeping, paralysing or poisoning your answer. Even Covert Cloak can be trolled with the virtue of Switcheroo Ring Target (yeah THANKS Isaiah for bringing this upon the metagame).
Is there other broken stuff? Idk lol everything's a mess right now but at the very least these three have become quickly prominent above the other stuff released.
LatiasDigs
formerly digitalson
been mostly messing around with HOme, i have some thoughts on teams now that they have field testing
(current version team ive been using) https://pokepast.es/1a340983198442ab
ursaluna: belly drum triage doubters in shambles, this thing is chaos, this thing does stuff even yama couldnt do (break stail, break fluffy corv) and a lot of the things that deal with it have a bit of an asterisk attached, like not working if luna has screens up, or luna having a set variant that kills it anyway, or being a really niche mon that you wouldnt think to use otherwise
some have insisted on sd over bdrum, and while yes thats prob the way if you use it outside HO, bdrum makes a huge difference at times, such as still being able to potentially get some kills even if you get burned, though i am open to see more elaboration on SD luna, would be an important point to bring to the table when belly drum triage tiering policy discourse happens again
also corv underspeed tech real and optimal if you arent investing speed, and it's hilarious every time the interaction occurs
enam: pretty much everything you could ask for in a sflo user, and im seeing in the post above that people are running tinted specs like with gardevoir (but faster! yikes!)
galartres: goated double dancer, i was a doubter at first, i was wrong, get both up or agility while baiting a volt switch behind screens and you can full sweep some teams, also the immunity is super valuable and should not be discounted, though i guess sflo could work too if you like to live dangerously, galartres isnt op but definitely shootout worthy
sneasler: op for completely different reasons than i expected, i was expecting serene dire claw to ruin the meta with sleep, however what it actually does is this 252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Sneasler Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Enamorus: 146-172 (50.5 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
yeah uh, teleport this thing to the woods
(current version team ive been using) https://pokepast.es/1a340983198442ab
ursaluna: belly drum triage doubters in shambles, this thing is chaos, this thing does stuff even yama couldnt do (break stail, break fluffy corv) and a lot of the things that deal with it have a bit of an asterisk attached, like not working if luna has screens up, or luna having a set variant that kills it anyway, or being a really niche mon that you wouldnt think to use otherwise
some have insisted on sd over bdrum, and while yes thats prob the way if you use it outside HO, bdrum makes a huge difference at times, such as still being able to potentially get some kills even if you get burned, though i am open to see more elaboration on SD luna, would be an important point to bring to the table when belly drum triage tiering policy discourse happens again
also corv underspeed tech real and optimal if you arent investing speed, and it's hilarious every time the interaction occurs
enam: pretty much everything you could ask for in a sflo user, and im seeing in the post above that people are running tinted specs like with gardevoir (but faster! yikes!)
galartres: goated double dancer, i was a doubter at first, i was wrong, get both up or agility while baiting a volt switch behind screens and you can full sweep some teams, also the immunity is super valuable and should not be discounted, though i guess sflo could work too if you like to live dangerously, galartres isnt op but definitely shootout worthy
sneasler: op for completely different reasons than i expected, i was expecting serene dire claw to ruin the meta with sleep, however what it actually does is this 252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Sneasler Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Enamorus: 146-172 (50.5 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
yeah uh, teleport this thing to the woods