Specs adapt or refridge kyurem is better. No reason to use Glaceon as it is outclassed in every aspect barring fairy neutral which isn't too huge
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Almost Any Ability ORAS Viability Rankings
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The only reason glaceon should be noticed in my opinion is its CM breaking potential. Whenever a poke tries to set up CM (mostly Cress), glaceon can come in and 1-3 hko it easy, and glaceon is bulky enough to take a +2 cress moonblast or psyshock. I feel that's good enough to at least be noticed.
My own discussion post
Changes I agree with (Not much reasoning since the reasoning is in the suggestion post):
Skarmory A+ -> S
Mew A -> A+
Lucario A- -> A+
Gengar A- -> A+
Aegislash A- -> A+
Mega Manectric unranked -> B+
Mega-Swampert for A- Rank
Deoxys-S for A+ Rank (GW Defog Skarmory is a giant thorn in the otherwise fantastic lead set)
Snorlax -> A+
Mega Pinsir for B+ Rank
Thundurus for High A Rank
Latios for High A Rank
Diancie for B+ Rank
Zygarde for High B Rank
Vaporeon for Low A Rank
Greninja for Mid B/High B Rank
Hawlucha for High C Rank
Regirock for Mid B rank
Thundurus-T for Mid C Rank
Chatot for Low B Rank
Florges for Low C Rank
Jellicent for Low B Rank
Disagree with this because I think it should be higher. Drizzle + Swampertite is amazing for rain teams and can do great amounts of damage. While it only gets Bulk Up as a boosting move, it doesn't really need to be boosting since it can 2HKO most of the metagame already. For example:
252+ Atk Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos in Rain: 192-226 (50 - 58.8%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Very hard to find any good checks for the thing on an offensive team. PH + Bulk Up sounds good in theory too though I haven't tried it, but I consider Drizzlepert the main and more dangerous set.
Victini is good, but I wouldn't say it's S rank worthy. The band set just simply isn't fast enough, and while the scarf set can be dangerous for offense, most offense teams usually possess checks that can switch into one or two V-Creates and force it out thanks to its unappealing speed drop. It's also weak to rocks and very easily pursuit trapped after a V-Create. I'm not necessarily saying it's bad and I wouldn't object to A+, but with such glaring flaws S seems like a stretch to me.
I mostly object to this since the thing is complete magic bounce bait. It can do its job very effectively against teams without it, but against teams with magic bounce it usually finds itself doing absolutely nothing against the bouncer bar knocking off the item. A Pokemon that can't do anything against one of the most common abilities in the metagame can't rise any higher than where it currently is IMO.
Similar to Regirock, I don't think its anti-GW niche merits it being in the A ranks. It has pretty exploitable weaknesses which means most Pokemon will usually have a way to hit it super effectively (And the loss of Solid Rock really shows itself). For example:
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Superpower vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Rhyperior: 272-322 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Poison Heal can help it make up for its lack of recovery but even with maximum bulk it has trouble stomaching non-STAB super effective hits. This would normally be a pretty obvious statement but once again, Rhyperior's weaknesses are very common, and it's almost impossible to avoid them.
Houndoom is more of a sweeper while Camerupt is a wallbreaker. Unfortunately as a wallbreaker it would like to abuse Drought more than once but it can't. Houndoom on the other hand doesn't really need to come in more than once which is why it's worthy of being ranked. Despite being a wallbreaker Camerupt also has a very hard time with common special walls such as Goodra and Chansey. Not sure that it's worthy of a rank honestly.
I think Serene Grace is still its best set, but in AAA it really has flaws that stop it from being as strong as it was in OU. It's weak to GW and Refridgerate which are both really bad for it, and Chlorophyll/Swift Swim are also rather common. The fact that Zapdos is absolutely everywhere doesn't help its cause that much either, since it resists both Seed Flare and Air Slash and only the Tinted Lens set can really fix that. I think it's fine where it is.
Stall honestly isn't as good as it once was, and while these Pokemon can perform as supporting walls in offensive teams, they lack firepower and can cause them to lose momentum. For the reasons aesf stated I think Regirock should drop, and Goodra should stay where it is since it's not as weak as Regirock and can perform very well versus weather teams.
Changes I agree with (Not much reasoning since the reasoning is in the suggestion post):
Skarmory A+ -> S
Mew A -> A+
Lucario A- -> A+
Gengar A- -> A+
Aegislash A- -> A+
Mega Manectric unranked -> B+
Mega-Swampert for A- Rank
Deoxys-S for A+ Rank (GW Defog Skarmory is a giant thorn in the otherwise fantastic lead set)
Snorlax -> A+
Mega Pinsir for B+ Rank
Thundurus for High A Rank
Latios for High A Rank
Diancie for B+ Rank
Zygarde for High B Rank
Vaporeon for Low A Rank
Greninja for Mid B/High B Rank
Hawlucha for High C Rank
Regirock for Mid B rank
Thundurus-T for Mid C Rank
Chatot for Low B Rank
Florges for Low C Rank
Jellicent for Low B Rank
Disagree with this because I think it should be higher. Drizzle + Swampertite is amazing for rain teams and can do great amounts of damage. While it only gets Bulk Up as a boosting move, it doesn't really need to be boosting since it can 2HKO most of the metagame already. For example:
252+ Atk Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos in Rain: 192-226 (50 - 58.8%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Very hard to find any good checks for the thing on an offensive team. PH + Bulk Up sounds good in theory too though I haven't tried it, but I consider Drizzlepert the main and more dangerous set.
Victini is good, but I wouldn't say it's S rank worthy. The band set just simply isn't fast enough, and while the scarf set can be dangerous for offense, most offense teams usually possess checks that can switch into one or two V-Creates and force it out thanks to its unappealing speed drop. It's also weak to rocks and very easily pursuit trapped after a V-Create. I'm not necessarily saying it's bad and I wouldn't object to A+, but with such glaring flaws S seems like a stretch to me.
I mostly object to this since the thing is complete magic bounce bait. It can do its job very effectively against teams without it, but against teams with magic bounce it usually finds itself doing absolutely nothing against the bouncer bar knocking off the item. A Pokemon that can't do anything against one of the most common abilities in the metagame can't rise any higher than where it currently is IMO.
Similar to Regirock, I don't think its anti-GW niche merits it being in the A ranks. It has pretty exploitable weaknesses which means most Pokemon will usually have a way to hit it super effectively (And the loss of Solid Rock really shows itself). For example:
252+ Atk Choice Band Braviary Superpower vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Rhyperior: 272-322 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Poison Heal can help it make up for its lack of recovery but even with maximum bulk it has trouble stomaching non-STAB super effective hits. This would normally be a pretty obvious statement but once again, Rhyperior's weaknesses are very common, and it's almost impossible to avoid them.
Houndoom is more of a sweeper while Camerupt is a wallbreaker. Unfortunately as a wallbreaker it would like to abuse Drought more than once but it can't. Houndoom on the other hand doesn't really need to come in more than once which is why it's worthy of being ranked. Despite being a wallbreaker Camerupt also has a very hard time with common special walls such as Goodra and Chansey. Not sure that it's worthy of a rank honestly.
I think Serene Grace is still its best set, but in AAA it really has flaws that stop it from being as strong as it was in OU. It's weak to GW and Refridgerate which are both really bad for it, and Chlorophyll/Swift Swim are also rather common. The fact that Zapdos is absolutely everywhere doesn't help its cause that much either, since it resists both Seed Flare and Air Slash and only the Tinted Lens set can really fix that. I think it's fine where it is.
Stall honestly isn't as good as it once was, and while these Pokemon can perform as supporting walls in offensive teams, they lack firepower and can cause them to lose momentum. For the reasons aesf stated I think Regirock should drop, and Goodra should stay where it is since it's not as weak as Regirock and can perform very well versus weather teams.
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Dunno why Volcarona is at B. Definitely deserves a low-mid A rank. Magic Guard Volcarona rips through most of the metagame at the moment after a single Quiver Dance.
After 1 dance, it outspeeds everything without a Scarf which isn't Deoxys-S. It sets up easily on many Pokemon. With 40 HP EVs, it can tank an unboosted 252+ Sucker Punch from Adaptability Bisharp.
With Magic Guard it's immune to toxic and rocks, two of its biggest problems in OU.
Further more, it has very few direct counters. It outspeeds non-Chlorophyll Heatrans and 2HKOs. Even a 252+ Ancient Power has only a 12.5% chance to KO.
2HKOs Zapdos with Fiery Dance though Discharge's paralyze % may cause a few problems.
It can take care of all three Regis, Vaporeon and Suicune as well. Provided of course that Vaporeon and Suicune haven't boosted their stats. And even then, Volcarona has a good chance of taking them out.
The only direct counters that I can think of are Flash Fire/Primordial Sea steel types like Genesect or Skarmory. Even Chansey can't really stop it from getting a few more Quiver Dances and then KOing it.
Apart from those, Volcarona can't do squat against bird spam. It also dies to Specs Sun Eruption from Chlorotran(But who doesn't? :P). And then there are the rare Sash/Sturdy Pokemon. Apart from that it doesn't have any problems at all.
After 1 dance, it outspeeds everything without a Scarf which isn't Deoxys-S. It sets up easily on many Pokemon. With 40 HP EVs, it can tank an unboosted 252+ Sucker Punch from Adaptability Bisharp.
With Magic Guard it's immune to toxic and rocks, two of its biggest problems in OU.
Further more, it has very few direct counters. It outspeeds non-Chlorophyll Heatrans and 2HKOs. Even a 252+ Ancient Power has only a 12.5% chance to KO.
2HKOs Zapdos with Fiery Dance though Discharge's paralyze % may cause a few problems.
It can take care of all three Regis, Vaporeon and Suicune as well. Provided of course that Vaporeon and Suicune haven't boosted their stats. And even then, Volcarona has a good chance of taking them out.
The only direct counters that I can think of are Flash Fire/Primordial Sea steel types like Genesect or Skarmory. Even Chansey can't really stop it from getting a few more Quiver Dances and then KOing it.
Apart from those, Volcarona can't do squat against bird spam. It also dies to Specs Sun Eruption from Chlorotran(But who doesn't? :P). And then there are the rare Sash/Sturdy Pokemon. Apart from that it doesn't have any problems at all.
It'd be useful if you listed what changes when you update it so we know what changed and what didn't.
For the most part, this:
And a few others such as Zapdos being added to S and Rhyperior being added to B+
EDIT: I'll probably implement some council system soon to review the nominations so it's not too biased on my part. I try not to be biased when making changes, but given the fact that since this is an OM and there isn't that much discussion it's hard for me to gauge the community's opinion when updating the thread.
I want to nominate Deoxys-S for low S rank. At first glance, all it can do is set hazards, and even though it does this job amazingly, it should be an A pokemon. However, there is another set it can run: Life Orb Download. This set is extremely good at revenge killing, punching holes in walls with the combination of psycho boost and superpower, and straight up sweeping teams when priority is gone. It is the exact same set as in ou, before it was banned, however now it gets an ability that will boost half of its moves. I am nominating deoxys for S not because of this set, but because of the combination of both of these sets, both of which are A+ worthy.
Bisharp is banned.
Lol what did I miss. Ignore me, haven't played AAA the past few days and stopped getting notifications from the thread. Nice ban though.
Also now that mamoswine and bisharp, two of the strongest and best priority users are banned, LO deoxys is even better
I'm sad jellicent keeps falling in rank< It's still my favorite thing for beating down unaware mons, who while nowhere near as popular as 5th gen, are still pretty prominent, it also tends to get chip damage or at least let you confirm which mons on their team are using which abilities (the well known ness of it's prankster makes it expose magic bounce every time). I also trolled people with a drought rotom-w, since I found it not very item dependent, (so heat rock ahoy) and a slowish volt switch brought nasty abusers in which could now run a second damage boosting ability on top of the fire bonus. Victini never gets old.
It's Peanut Butter Jelly Time!
Suggestions:
With rain support (not terribly difficult to provide in this meta), Specs + Water Spout Jellicent is the closest thing we have to a rain version of Chlorotran. It lacks the sheer power of Heatran, but it still outspeeds and OHKOs a substantial portion of the meta -- Zapdos, Terrakion, Entei, Heatran, Lucario, Thundurus, Gengar, Blaziken, Mandibuzz, Landorus/-I, and a lot of miscellaneous 'mons among them. If it manages to catch something on the switch, a lot of other 'mons fall to it as well. Overall, it's a solid Swift Swim sweeper, packing a slight element of surprise and more than sufficient power and speed. It can sometimes even get a free switch-in on Fighting/Normal-type moves.
However, the Swift Swim set requires support in several ways. First and foremost, Jellicent needs a rain setter. Second, opposing weather (and Water-immunities) need to be removed. Third, as its power is directly proportional to its HP, it is inadvisable to hard-switch it in, and requires a Volt/Switch/Pass or coming in to revenge. Third, hazards should be off the field. And fourth, priority should be removed as much as possible. This does seem significant, but most offensive teams already have a switching move, hazard removal is made easy either via one of the tier's excellent defoggers or Magic Bounce, and teams without priority answers are honestly quite bad anyways. Removing opposing weather/immunity is the only one of these that I think would require some serious dedication.
As Jellicent can effectively perform both support and offensive roles, but with significant flaws, I feel that Mid-B rank is an accurate assessment of its viability. Low-B is also acceptable if the Swift Swim set doesn't bump it up a notch, but Swift Swim is absolutely a good set for it (and more generally, rain is good enough to be worth using in this meta) and should be listed in its viable abilities.
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Tentacruel's niche in AAA is that of a Magic Bouncer that can use the following (but not all at once):
Tentacruel's most serious flaw, and the biggest reason to use lots of other things, is that it has no reliable recovery. It will get worn down fairly quickly if it tries to stay in against something with solid attacking stats, and even fully invested, it despises taking the powerful neutral/boosted hits that are abundant in this meta -- its defensive stats are not stellar.
I thus assert that Tentacruel fulfills the definition of a C-rank Pokemon -- it has notable niches, but also serious flaws. It does not require significant support (it is support), but is instead limited in the number of teams that it can effectively support. It faces a lot of competition from common, highly-ranked support Pokemon for a team slot.
Footage of Swift Swim Jellicent in the wild
Suggestions:
- Add Swift Swim to Jellicent's viable abilities and move it to Mid-B rank.
- Rank Tentacruel, probably at C, with Magic Bounce.
With rain support (not terribly difficult to provide in this meta), Specs + Water Spout Jellicent is the closest thing we have to a rain version of Chlorotran. It lacks the sheer power of Heatran, but it still outspeeds and OHKOs a substantial portion of the meta -- Zapdos, Terrakion, Entei, Heatran, Lucario, Thundurus, Gengar, Blaziken, Mandibuzz, Landorus/-I, and a lot of miscellaneous 'mons among them. If it manages to catch something on the switch, a lot of other 'mons fall to it as well. Overall, it's a solid Swift Swim sweeper, packing a slight element of surprise and more than sufficient power and speed. It can sometimes even get a free switch-in on Fighting/Normal-type moves.
However, the Swift Swim set requires support in several ways. First and foremost, Jellicent needs a rain setter. Second, opposing weather (and Water-immunities) need to be removed. Third, as its power is directly proportional to its HP, it is inadvisable to hard-switch it in, and requires a Volt/Switch/Pass or coming in to revenge. Third, hazards should be off the field. And fourth, priority should be removed as much as possible. This does seem significant, but most offensive teams already have a switching move, hazard removal is made easy either via one of the tier's excellent defoggers or Magic Bounce, and teams without priority answers are honestly quite bad anyways. Removing opposing weather/immunity is the only one of these that I think would require some serious dedication.
As Jellicent can effectively perform both support and offensive roles, but with significant flaws, I feel that Mid-B rank is an accurate assessment of its viability. Low-B is also acceptable if the Swift Swim set doesn't bump it up a notch, but Swift Swim is absolutely a good set for it (and more generally, rain is good enough to be worth using in this meta) and should be listed in its viable abilities.
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Tentacruel's niche in AAA is that of a Magic Bouncer that can use the following (but not all at once):
- Rapid Spin, making it a self-contained hazard control package that can't be Taunted.
- Knock Off, to annoy the opposing team and handle spinblockers.
- Acid Spray, to wear down some CM users and other walls.
- Scald, which requires no elaboration.
- Toxic Spikes, to wear down the opposition.
Tentacruel's most serious flaw, and the biggest reason to use lots of other things, is that it has no reliable recovery. It will get worn down fairly quickly if it tries to stay in against something with solid attacking stats, and even fully invested, it despises taking the powerful neutral/boosted hits that are abundant in this meta -- its defensive stats are not stellar.
I thus assert that Tentacruel fulfills the definition of a C-rank Pokemon -- it has notable niches, but also serious flaws. It does not require significant support (it is support), but is instead limited in the number of teams that it can effectively support. It faces a lot of competition from common, highly-ranked support Pokemon for a team slot.
Footage of Swift Swim Jellicent in the wild
Why is Ferrothron only B-?
While magic bounce hurts the effectiveness of his hazards and leech seed, power whip isn't a slouch of an attack, and he can viably run volt switch as a 4th move. Drizzle in tandem can be used for more straight up swift swim and specs pokemon and to weaken his primary weakness, while Primordial sea makes him a near counter to very popular fire spammers, and even if they are desolate land and can force him out after a turn, he can use that time to volt switch or set hazards (pending on whether you have wallbroken his support yet) to put a timer on victini or the likes actions. Additionally, you can cover his fighting weakness in a way that is very difficult for the other player to predict in teampreview by partnering him with a pixilate or aerilate pokemon, or with a highly visible gale wings or STAB type that they will switch away from.... playing into hazard damage that ferrothron provides.
He's very easy to support and gives back to his teammates as much as they get from him and doesn't lose too much momentum even if he isn't built to counter magic bounce. Unlike a lot of pokemon at (and some above) his rank, he doesn't just appear on X style team, but can fit in most places that want a pivot with his resists and hazard support, or to push a water based offense the extra mile.
While magic bounce hurts the effectiveness of his hazards and leech seed, power whip isn't a slouch of an attack, and he can viably run volt switch as a 4th move. Drizzle in tandem can be used for more straight up swift swim and specs pokemon and to weaken his primary weakness, while Primordial sea makes him a near counter to very popular fire spammers, and even if they are desolate land and can force him out after a turn, he can use that time to volt switch or set hazards (pending on whether you have wallbroken his support yet) to put a timer on victini or the likes actions. Additionally, you can cover his fighting weakness in a way that is very difficult for the other player to predict in teampreview by partnering him with a pixilate or aerilate pokemon, or with a highly visible gale wings or STAB type that they will switch away from.... playing into hazard damage that ferrothron provides.
He's very easy to support and gives back to his teammates as much as they get from him and doesn't lose too much momentum even if he isn't built to counter magic bounce. Unlike a lot of pokemon at (and some above) his rank, he doesn't just appear on X style team, but can fit in most places that want a pivot with his resists and hazard support, or to push a water based offense the extra mile.
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Ferrothorn doesn't get Volt Switch, that is Forretress.
Anyway I support a raise as it's a great support Pokemon and very annoying to remove. It's annoying if random Magic Bouncers are on a team, but they're usually not that hard to wear down. (Or MB Ferro, who knows) It's pretty easy to support it with a resist to fighting, but it supports the team really well. It checks a lot of different dangerous threats, and can set up hazards while it forces switches, leech seed the switch in or paralyze switch ins. Sometimes the switchins aren't even able to beat it one on one! It has a decent attack stat and horrible speed so Gyro Ball makes for a decent attack and Power Whip is powerful as well. It can be annoyed by Fighting types and Magic Bounce, but you really need a reliable way of beating this as otherwise it'll just throw you around between hazards, status and passive recovery.
That said, its flaws are pretty obvious as well. (Fighting weakness, Magic Bounce weakness as I said). Especially Magic Bounce is annoying if it's not weak to Steel or Grass as they basically prevent it from doing a lot, but it should definitely be higher than B-! I end up throwing it on a lot of teams.
I have been using regenerator tentacruel and it is decent. Can counter/check gengar, genesect, azumarill, altaria, entei, heatran, victini random stuff like char y, etc. I support maybe B- rank. similar to ou empoleon, just a really good support poke with hazards and the like, as well as countering/checking some strong threats in aaa. sorry for short post but im tired and cant be bothered to write more
edit: also manaphy, diancie. assualt vest is a cool set too, tanking thundurus's tbolts and ice beaming it
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I'm here to make some suggestions. Two great Pokemon from my latest team are apparently not ranked and they've been functioning pretty well. I didn't save any specific replay, but feel free to test them out. It's not the greatest team, but these Pokemon work pretty well and I've won a few tours with them.
to B or B+
Honestly, I'm not sure about the rank, but in my experience this is a great wallbreaker. It breaks stuff already when using Scald, which is cool for the burn chance, but when you want extra power you can start using Hydro Pump. I've already made a detailed post about it in the normal thread and I feel it has to be ranked. It can come in against a lot of Pokemon due to its unique typing, which includes any Skarmory set. It 2HKO's most switchins, it 3HKO's Chansey and really bulky resists. It can also use coverage in Flash Cannon/Ice Beam/Grass Knot or support options in Stealth Rock / Defog / Roar (A support set might deserve being ranked on its own tbh, but I didn't try it), but you really don't need it. Just spam water type attacks. It dislikes Desolate Land, but luckily that isn't too common and water immune abilities are almost never used. (For what I've seen)
to B-
I'm not too convinced on the rank yet, so feel free to make suggestions, but this is horrible under-prepared for. It's one of the more useful mega-evolutions due to its high speed and the fact that it gets a great ability already. Add Download to the mix and you can start firing off +1 STAB Returns and High Jump Kicks. Sometimes you get Special Attack, which is unfortunate, but you can always try again later if you choose not to mega yet. It gets two free slots because of its unresisted STAB coverage. Good options to include are Fake Out to revenge kill and mega freely, Healing Wish to support your team and pretty much everything that's viable in OU.
It hates Bird-Spam and very bulky physical walls (aka on stall teams), but it's amazing against offense and balance once Gale Wings user have been removed. (It actually survives most other priority, though watch out for Pixilate ESpeed as well) Oh yeah, it also 2HKO's defensive Skarmory at +1.
Also add Tinted Lens to Staraptor sets. It's pretty good on BirdSpam and lets you lure in counters to other birds like Skarmory and Zapdos. Both of which are 2HKO'd.
Honestly, I'm not sure about the rank, but in my experience this is a great wallbreaker. It breaks stuff already when using Scald, which is cool for the burn chance, but when you want extra power you can start using Hydro Pump. I've already made a detailed post about it in the normal thread and I feel it has to be ranked. It can come in against a lot of Pokemon due to its unique typing, which includes any Skarmory set. It 2HKO's most switchins, it 3HKO's Chansey and really bulky resists. It can also use coverage in Flash Cannon/Ice Beam/Grass Knot or support options in Stealth Rock / Defog / Roar (A support set might deserve being ranked on its own tbh, but I didn't try it), but you really don't need it. Just spam water type attacks. It dislikes Desolate Land, but luckily that isn't too common and water immune abilities are almost never used. (For what I've seen)
I'm not too convinced on the rank yet, so feel free to make suggestions, but this is horrible under-prepared for. It's one of the more useful mega-evolutions due to its high speed and the fact that it gets a great ability already. Add Download to the mix and you can start firing off +1 STAB Returns and High Jump Kicks. Sometimes you get Special Attack, which is unfortunate, but you can always try again later if you choose not to mega yet. It gets two free slots because of its unresisted STAB coverage. Good options to include are Fake Out to revenge kill and mega freely, Healing Wish to support your team and pretty much everything that's viable in OU.
It hates Bird-Spam and very bulky physical walls (aka on stall teams), but it's amazing against offense and balance once Gale Wings user have been removed. (It actually survives most other priority, though watch out for Pixilate ESpeed as well) Oh yeah, it also 2HKO's defensive Skarmory at +1.
Also add Tinted Lens to Staraptor sets. It's pretty good on BirdSpam and lets you lure in counters to other birds like Skarmory and Zapdos. Both of which are 2HKO'd.
in total it hits 207(like...13 less then tran), not the fastest poke, but definatly enough to get the job done. doesnt hit as hard as heatran, but hits quite a bit harder then jellicent, along with having nearly the same coverage.
When both are Modest, Octillery hits 339 Special Attack to Jellicent's 295; this is about 15% stronger. If this nets any KOs that Jellicent doesn't, I'm very interested in hearing about them. Meanwhile, rain-boosted Jellicent gets to 438 Speed to Octillery's 378. Jellicent outspeeds +Speed base-149s, while Octillery only hits that of a +Speed 122. More importantly, Jellicent hits +1/Scarfed Adamant/Modest Base-96s, but Octillery can only outspeed things at +1 that are Base-76 or less.
Powerful things Jellicent outspeeds that Octillery doesn't: +1 Blaziken (however rare that might be), +1 Mega Gyarados, +1 Mega Tyranitar, +1 Zygarde, +1 Dragonite, Mega Lopunny (43.8% chance to OHKO after max damage +1 Fake Out), Mega Swampert, and Mega Manectric. I, for one, appreciate the ability to check these threats / not get checked by these megas.
Timid Octillery does hit 207 Speed, which is probably sufficient (I cbf to check all those calcs again), but at the price of only out-SpAing Jellicent by like 5%. And really, Jellicent's somewhat higher bulk, common role as a Prankster, and ability to switch in on immunities makes it absolutely worth running over Octillery, which does not get many switch-ins, takes more damage when it does (wouldn't care if not for Water Spout), and is (ironically) completely transparent, set-wise. Also, Jellicent is a jellyfish and therefore cooler than Octillery.
(Incidentally, 252- Heatran hits 227 Speed)
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Things that should be unranked: Chatot now that Chatter is banned; maybe D-rank because its Boombursts are still silly, but that's not enough to carry it tbh. I would never use it on a competitive team.
Things that should be ranked: Mega Metagross, Non-Mega Garchomp. Metagross would probably run Tough Claws even if it could pick what ability to run in mega form, but now it can run Download or Defiant or whatever to get some boost/use before going Mega and basically be a fuckin' terror. I know from experience that Garchomp is a solid Illusion Scarfer, but that's probably idiosyncratic; I've seen Poison Heal + Swords Dance sets that look terrifying, a Moxie Scarf set is probably good, Adaptability is one of its more common abilities and seems promising as well.
I couldn't tell you where to rank each, but they're definitely more useful than some of the stuff sitting in C rank. Probably somewhere in the B ranks, maybe low A for Megagross.
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(On phone so can't talk very much)
Agreeing totally with akumeoy. I have been using mega metagross a lot recently, and I would say the best ability would be levitate, as it allows it to switch into so many pokemon with only earthquake to hit steels and is very useful. I think the best set is probably meteor mash | zen headbutt | hammer arm | grass knot/rock polish. Stabs are obvious. Hammer arm hits steel types, and allows it to beat weakened gale wings skarm, as they can't Roost on you. Grapss knot is a cool move that hits bulky waters such as slowbro and suicune, as well as pokemon like hippowdon. Rock Polish allows metagross to be a great cleaner against offense, as it resists all common forms if priority and is extremely strong. Mega-gross is looking to me to be almost as good as it is in ou, and should be ranked at a solid A rank.
Garchomp is a pretty underused pokemon in aaa; sd ph is a very good set that can wallbreak pretty well, garchomp can even pull off bulky sets like in ou and as mentioned, various scarf sets are pretty good. Maybe B+?
Finally, want to nominate some other pokes to move up.
Doublade to A-
Doublade is such a good defensive pokemon. There are 2 main sets: levitate and regenerator. Both are amazing, with regenerator it is more reliable, and with levitate it walls quite a few more pokes. I'll put more reasoning later as I am on phone but I think it derserves the bump for it's walking ability.
Hippowdon to A or A+
hippo is another amazing wall. Intimidate hippo, it's best set imo, walls so much of the metagame which is dominantly physical that it deserves a spot in A rank.
Ferrothorn to A or A+
With the amazing addition of flash fire, Ferrothorn walls a huge amount of the game and can be very hard to break. My favourite set is leech seed | spikes/stealh rock | power whip | knock off, knock off of course being a great move for things such as beat other ferros, and surprising aegislash, among other things. It is an amazing glue for balance and offense teams, it's great typing and bulk allowing it to switch into a plethora of mons.
Dragonite to A+
No "or A" here; tough claws bandnite is an amazing pokemon for wallbreaking with outrage, and revenge killing and sweeping with espeed, along with 2 of fire punch, earthquake and superpower for coverage. I can't provide calcs, but I do know that it is strong enough to have a shot at 2hkoing intimidate hippo with outrage, and can Ohio braviary. It is consistent and always puts in work, no matter what kind of team you're playing
Also finally I want to ask for tentacruel to be put in at a B+ or A- rank. Its regenvest set is really good and is an excellent pivot and counter to many pokemon, as well as providing hazard removable.
Sorry for not providing more reasoning but if anyone disagrees I will be happy to talk more later.
Agreeing totally with akumeoy. I have been using mega metagross a lot recently, and I would say the best ability would be levitate, as it allows it to switch into so many pokemon with only earthquake to hit steels and is very useful. I think the best set is probably meteor mash | zen headbutt | hammer arm | grass knot/rock polish. Stabs are obvious. Hammer arm hits steel types, and allows it to beat weakened gale wings skarm, as they can't Roost on you. Grapss knot is a cool move that hits bulky waters such as slowbro and suicune, as well as pokemon like hippowdon. Rock Polish allows metagross to be a great cleaner against offense, as it resists all common forms if priority and is extremely strong. Mega-gross is looking to me to be almost as good as it is in ou, and should be ranked at a solid A rank.
Garchomp is a pretty underused pokemon in aaa; sd ph is a very good set that can wallbreak pretty well, garchomp can even pull off bulky sets like in ou and as mentioned, various scarf sets are pretty good. Maybe B+?
Finally, want to nominate some other pokes to move up.
Doublade to A-
Doublade is such a good defensive pokemon. There are 2 main sets: levitate and regenerator. Both are amazing, with regenerator it is more reliable, and with levitate it walls quite a few more pokes. I'll put more reasoning later as I am on phone but I think it derserves the bump for it's walking ability.
Hippowdon to A or A+
hippo is another amazing wall. Intimidate hippo, it's best set imo, walls so much of the metagame which is dominantly physical that it deserves a spot in A rank.
Ferrothorn to A or A+
With the amazing addition of flash fire, Ferrothorn walls a huge amount of the game and can be very hard to break. My favourite set is leech seed | spikes/stealh rock | power whip | knock off, knock off of course being a great move for things such as beat other ferros, and surprising aegislash, among other things. It is an amazing glue for balance and offense teams, it's great typing and bulk allowing it to switch into a plethora of mons.
Dragonite to A+
No "or A" here; tough claws bandnite is an amazing pokemon for wallbreaking with outrage, and revenge killing and sweeping with espeed, along with 2 of fire punch, earthquake and superpower for coverage. I can't provide calcs, but I do know that it is strong enough to have a shot at 2hkoing intimidate hippo with outrage, and can Ohio braviary. It is consistent and always puts in work, no matter what kind of team you're playing
Also finally I want to ask for tentacruel to be put in at a B+ or A- rank. Its regenvest set is really good and is an excellent pivot and counter to many pokemon, as well as providing hazard removable.
Sorry for not providing more reasoning but if anyone disagrees I will be happy to talk more later.
Dewgong for D rank
No one seems to recognize the power of dual priority stab dewgong with adaptibility and band. No one seems to remember the sheer STRENGTH this thing posesses and its KO capabilities. Are we forgetting this man seal also gets icicle spear? so that frail ass sub you're trying to set on my man D-gong will be shattered in just a few hits. You think it stops there? Are we forgetting waterfall's flinch powers people? TWENTY PERCENT THAT IS A THREAT. Oh sure we've got bulky mons who are gonna take a few water and ice hits like Suicune but once those weaklings are gone THE THREAT IS HERE. GOOD GAME
No one seems to recognize the power of dual priority stab dewgong with adaptibility and band. No one seems to remember the sheer STRENGTH this thing posesses and its KO capabilities. Are we forgetting this man seal also gets icicle spear? so that frail ass sub you're trying to set on my man D-gong will be shattered in just a few hits. You think it stops there? Are we forgetting waterfall's flinch powers people? TWENTY PERCENT THAT IS A THREAT. Oh sure we've got bulky mons who are gonna take a few water and ice hits like Suicune but once those weaklings are gone THE THREAT IS HERE. GOOD GAME
Regirock is a great stop to gale wings with the ability to actually hit them, while registeel defeats them with toxic stalling and what not. It's also generally a good physical wall that can brush off any non super effective physical attack like it was nothing and even tank many SE attacks (especially if non STAB, like superpowers from gale wings abusers). I personally like the regenerator set.
As for ranking, I'd say because aaa is more offensively oriented people prefer to have a defensive mon that can dish out some damage instead of than one that relies passive ways of killing foes.
As for ranking, I'd say because aaa is more offensively oriented people prefer to have a defensive mon that can dish out some damage instead of than one that relies passive ways of killing foes.
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