AAA Almost Any Ability

[FakeFan0]

Now, while Triage Ursaluna is the funniest(and my favorite) thing to come from HOME, I would like to take time to recognize the unsung heroes of this.

Electrode-Hisui @ Choice Specs
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Thunderbolt
This thing puts up the most ridiculous numbers since Sandy Shocks(I'm pretty sure that was banned). There is barely anything that actually can take a hit from this behemoth of a threat. This brings me to my next subject:
GOODRA-HISUI
whether it's RegenVest or setup earth eater, this thing brings so much value as a defensive core. We'll only see RegenVest though.

Honorable mention to the new lilligant for just barely not being able to break corv at +1, even with smth like sword of ruin.
Also, friendly reminder that banning triage is always an option. :)

 

[Isaiah]

The council will be voting on some Pokemon some time this weekend (result will definitely be up before OMPL Week 3 is posted). Based on current discussion, it looks like this vote will at minimum include Enamorus, Ursaluna, and Sneasler. What do you all think? Is there anything you feel should be under closer examination? Or perhaps, anything you feel is being overrated?

 

[ToluTTT]

Enamorus DEFINETELY has to go lmao. The coverage that pokemon gets at that speed + an extremely spammable Moonblast + a typing with 2 immunities is way too much

 

[cat]

31 pages. thats more than the whole gen 8 thread, and DLC isnt even here yet.



To start this off, I would like to mention that this isnt a "normal insane damage due to x or y thing" that i do

Triage. Any seasoned AAA player knows what it does, but for those Unaware, Triage gives a +3 priority boost to any healing move, from Life Dew to Oblivion Wing. Our first abuser this generation was Iron Hands, which was controversial even before it used Triage. Why? Unburden. Don't get me wrong, Unburden was very much broken, yada yada. Either way, after Unburden was QB'ed, Hands still stuck out with TriageDrum sets which fit perfectly on HO with Screens backing it up. After its ban, Hariyama was thrown around as a Meme set by some players, with it eventually fitting into some variations of HO made by LordBox which I then stole, making the incredibly dumb Hariyama HO team that was very popular on ladder at one point in time that people could play it 2 games in a row (iirc). After support from the playerbase, with many posts discussing whether it was broken or Triage / Belly Drum was the broken thing in the tier. Not very recently, Hariyama did end up getting banned (to the despair of my mini analysis).

Recently, HOME was released for us, and gave us plenty of new toys like Enamorus-I, Sneasler, Ursaluna and Enamorus-T. The former two are broken breakers that have been addressed on many posts, while Ursaluna and Enamorus-T have shown merit in their abilities to utilize Triage well. While Enam-T and Hatterene are very similar, both being Triaging Fairies with Draining Kiss and CM, Enam has actual bulk, Earth Power, Iron Defense to annoy Kingambit and Hoodra, and an arguably better defensive typing. As for Ursaluna, it has joined the path of TriageDrum, 2hkoing the vast majority of resists to fighting, and using coverage like Heavy Slam or Gunk Shot to beat Unaware Scream Tail / Florges / Sylveon or wtv. The thing is, Luna is not only proving to be ok, its proving to be good. And not just good. Its GREAT. TriageDrum, even tho it lacks STAB Drain Punch, still hits like a truck to just about anything. Luna is slowly showing itself to be broken.

So why not just ban it? After all, look at the tiering policy:

I) When it comes to bans and restrictions, we seek to prioritize preserving the concept of a meta over anything else.

• Ability-based formats such as Almost Any Ability (AAA) should look to ban specific users of abilities before banning the abilities themselves.
  • Noivern and Dragonite are both banned from AAA largely because of Aerilate, which remains legal as an option for other users, such as Landorus-Therian, that are not considered banworthy.
  • Wonder Guard is banned in Almost Any Ability because it warps the metagame to an extremely overcentralized extent, depriving teams of creativity and requiring overly demanding and specific countermeasures regardless of what the Wonder Guard Pokemon on an opposing team may be.

Banning Luna would definitely be the right choice here, but it doesnt stop there.

People are trying to find ways to beat TriageDrum's checks, specifically Unaware Fairies. Not only that, but if we banned Ursaluna, it would be 3 banned Pokemon that mainly used Triage to get banned. To add insult to the injury known as Triage, back in the Hariyama days, people were forced to have either a Ceruledge, Bulkarona / Bulky Slither Wing on more offensive teams or an Unaware Fairy like Scream Tail to counter it on bulkier / balance teams. Even with those listed arguements, Hariyama could win eventually if it had the right support or coverage, but also could just end up useless, making it very Hit-or-Miss. Hariyama was extremely uncompetitive and warped the metagame. Doesn't this sound familiar?

I) When it comes to bans and restrictions, we seek to prioritize preserving the concept of a meta over anything else.

• Ability-based formats such as Almost Any Ability (AAA) should look to ban specific users of abilities before banning the abilities themselves.
  • Noivern and Dragonite are both banned from AAA largely because of Aerilate, which remains legal as an option for other users, such as Landorus-Therian, that are not considered banworthy.
  • Wonder Guard is banned in Almost Any Ability because it warps the metagame to an extremely overcentralized extent, depriving teams of creativity and requiring overly demanding and specific countermeasures regardless of what the Wonder Guard Pokemon on an opposing team may be.

Triage has made the tier very uncompetitive, in the Hariyama meta it felt like a Scream Tail + 5 Mons. Belly Drum isnt the issue either, Enam-T has the potential to be great in this meta.

Therefore, my conclusion is: Ban Triage.



s/o to friend KarpeSan for being there and talking with me cos i wouldve gotten very bored and gave up writing this long ago

 

[Tranquility]

The council will be voting on some Pokemon some time this weekend (result will definitely be up before OMPL Week 3 is posted). Based on current discussion, it looks like this vote will at minimum include Enamorus, Ursaluna, and Sneasler. What do you all think? Is there anything you feel should be under closer examination? Or perhaps, anything you feel is being overrated?

For a metagame that allows one to use Almost Any Ability, its a bit weird to see a pokemon with its best ability option being its natural ability, but that is the case for Chien-Pao. While it isn't as overwhelmingly broken in OU with less checks and access to Tera there, I still think that Pao, and in particular Choice Band Sword of Ruin, can be very annoying for teams to deal with and possibly broken. There's really only two reliable checks to it, and that is Intimidate Corviknight and Fluffy Quaquaval, the former of which can be pressured by chip and the latter being an ability that isn't even the most used on Quaq. Pao can have some other switch-ins to its STABs like Kingambit or Tinkaton but if it uses Sacred Sword it'll send both packing. One of the main drawbacks to Chien-Pao is its hazard weakness, but with Corviknight being omnipresent on every team I don't think its too much of an issue that much if played well, and it can also pivot in Pao Safely. With it's speed being one of the fastest relevant base speed in the tier, it can almost effortlessly clean through frailer teams and can also use Ice Shard for faster threats like scarf Meowscarada and the recently released Hisuian Electrode.

Ultimately, there are some drawbacks to Pao that hold it back from being as busted as the 3 Pokemon that council is looking at. It is prediction reliant at times, it can be chipped by hazards and is kept in checked by Intimidate Corviknight which is one of, if not the most, common ability for the bird now. However I think it's ability with Choice Band Sword of Ruin to clear through a lot of teams and basically require Corviknight's to run Intimidate shows how constraining it can be on the team builder, and should at the very least be looked at, if not voted on.

 

[Gimmicky]

Obligatory mention of Ursaluna, Sneasler and Enamorus. Get rid of these threats.

Beads of Ruin

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Taunt / Sludge Bomb / U-Turn

101 is an unfortunate Speed tier, with no way to boost your speed, but Landorus-I is still a candidate for one of the better wallbreakers. Earth Power is highly spammable at +2, with nothing wanting to switch into it without an immunity. Valuable immunities to . Beads of Ruin gives it great damage output even on its coverage moves. 101 Speed, notably, lets you outspeed Zapdos-G and hit it with a strong Psychic or U-Turn into a more solid answer.

There's not too much to say, it hits quite hard and I think it's underrated, even if Corv and EE Steels eat it for breakfast.

also, Etern is misspelled in the OP post <,<

 

[cjw405]

Meloetta @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psyshock
- U-turn
- Low Kick
- Thunderbolt

I came up with an idea while we were talking about meloetta in om cord yesterday, low kick. Basically it threatens out steel types like heatran and goodra-h.

Calcs

0 Atk Meloetta Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra-Hisui: 140-166 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Meloetta Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 134-158 (34.7 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So yeah start using low kick on your meloetta.

 

[Uninteleon]

Meloetta @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psyshock
- U-turn
- Low Kick
- Thunderbolt

I came up with an idea while we were talking about meloetta in om cord yesterday, low kick. Basically it threatens out steel types like heatran and goodra-h.

Calcs

0 Atk Meloetta Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra-Hisui: 140-166 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Meloetta Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 134-158 (34.7 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So yeah start using low kick on your meloetta.

i thought low kick was a given, been using it since day 2 of home

 

[LordBox]

31 pages. thats more than the whole gen 8 thread, and DLC isnt even here yet.



To start this off, I would like to mention that this isnt a "normal insane damage due to x or y thing" that i do

Triage. Any seasoned AAA player knows what it does, but for those Unaware, Triage gives a +3 priority boost to any healing move, from Life Dew to Oblivion Wing. Our first abuser this generation was Iron Hands, which was controversial even before it used Triage. Why? Unburden. Don't get me wrong, Unburden was very much broken, yada yada. Either way, after Unburden was QB'ed, Hands still stuck out with TriageDrum sets which fit perfectly on HO with Screens backing it up. After its ban, Hariyama was thrown around as a Meme set by some players, with it eventually fitting into some variations of HO made by LordBox which I then stole, making the incredibly dumb Hariyama HO team that was very popular on ladder at one point in time that people could play it 2 games in a row (iirc). After support from the playerbase, with many posts discussing whether it was broken or Triage / Belly Drum was the broken thing in the tier. Not very recently, Hariyama did end up getting banned (to the despair of my mini analysis).

Recently, HOME was released for us, and gave us plenty of new toys like Enamorus-I, Sneasler, Ursaluna and Enamorus-T. The former two are broken breakers that have been addressed on many posts, while Ursaluna and Enamorus-T have shown merit in their abilities to utilize Triage well. While Enam-T and Hatterene are very similar, both being Triaging Fairies with Draining Kiss and CM, Enam has actual bulk, Earth Power, Iron Defense to annoy Kingambit and Hoodra, and an arguably better defensive typing. As for Ursaluna, it has joined the path of TriageDrum, 2hkoing the vast majority of resists to fighting, and using coverage like Heavy Slam or Gunk Shot to beat Unaware Scream Tail / Florges / Sylveon or wtv. The thing is, Luna is not only proving to be ok, its proving to be good. And not just good. Its GREAT. TriageDrum, even tho it lacks STAB Drain Punch, still hits like a truck to just about anything. Luna is slowly showing itself to be broken.

So why not just ban it? After all, look at the tiering policy:

Banning Luna would definitely be the right choice here, but it doesnt stop there.

View attachment 521650
People are trying to find ways to beat TriageDrum's checks, specifically Unaware Fairies. Not only that, but if we banned Ursaluna, it would be 3 banned Pokemon that mainly used Triage to get banned. To add insult to the injury known as Triage, back in the Hariyama days, people were forced to have either a Ceruledge, Bulkarona / Bulky Slither Wing on more offensive teams or an Unaware Fairy like Scream Tail to counter it on bulkier / balance teams. Even with those listed arguements, Hariyama could win eventually if it had the right support or coverage, but also could just end up useless, making it very Hit-or-Miss. Hariyama was extremely uncompetitive and warped the metagame. Doesn't this sound familiar?

Triage has made the tier very uncompetitive, in the Hariyama meta it felt like a Scream Tail + 5 Mons. Belly Drum isnt the issue either, Enam-T has the potential to be great in this meta.

Therefore, my conclusion is: Ban Triage.


s/o to friend KarpeSan for being there and talking with me cos i wouldve gotten very bored and gave up writing this long ago

Because I'm interested I decided to look at the argument of banning Triage a bit further and decided to leave a few comments...

My understanding of tiering policy in regards to AAA is that "Ability-based formats such as Almost Any Ability (AAA) should look to ban specific users of abilities before banning the abilities themselves." which is obviously what we've been doing so far. At a certain point though, we look to ban the ability, usually when there are multiple abusers of the ability whose effect can be considered unhealthy for the metagame, referring back to the tiering guidelines "Wonder Guard is banned in Almost Any Ability because it warps the metagame to an extremely overcentralized extent, depriving teams of creativity and requiring overly demanding and specific countermeasures regardless of what the Wonder Guard Pokemon on an opposing team may be." While obviously this isn't strictly true, you can't expect to say this for some abilities like the bans of Orichalcum Pulse and Good as Gold where obviously, OPulse or GaG Luvdisc is not broken. However for both it was mostly on the burden of the ability providing the stupidity of the abusers where OPulse made basically every physical Fire-type broken and forced WBB or other specific measures and GaG on anything with longevity and able to switch into Corviknight consistently (or on a spinblocking Ghost-type for extra convenience) which put a chokehold on hazard removal forcing stuff like Scrappy Spin on many teams. There's also others highlighted cases like Aerilate, which while was obviously was the major part in why both Dragonite and Noivern were banned but ultimately is let alone given other abusers of Aerilate are mostly fine and just the qualities of Noivern and Dragonite (Boomburst and ESPeed respectively), or at least this is my interpretation.

Looking at Triage, while yes, the banned abusers (and the main suspect of Ursuluna atm) did definitely warp the metagame quite considerably given their 6-0 potential forcing checks like Unaware and some bulky options like Wisp Volcarona/Ceruledge (and some random Fluffy mons I guess) you also have to factor in how much it really was the abusers fault as well. Ursuluna and Iron Hands particularly have outstanding characteristics that other mons don't abuse much, that is their immense bulk (and you could even pin some of the blame onto Screens itself but unless...). Hariyama's ban does seem more suspect given its a pretty useless mon otherwise but also looking at a hypothetical where Ursuluna is banned and the abusers that follow. Slowbro-Galar was mentioned within Natcrozma's post and Chesnaught is still in the game and was used a bit before the meta was blown up by Home anyway. Using both definitely does expand the list of checks, Slowbro-Galar both lacks the STAB on Drain Punch, that great of an attack stat and also that great bulk. Chesnaught quadruple Flying weakness and lower bulk can make it harder to setup and easier to revenge kill as well. The introduction of home means you could possibly run as checks to these (including the old ones), Wisp bulky Moltres, Mew and even emergency checks like Galarian Zapdos/Zapdos can live a hit from full and revenge kill Chesnaught at least which eases the burden of how much it warps the teambuilder. So can it really be said to be Triage or primarily the unique benefits of the old banned abusers?

Looking further, we also have Triage mons which aren't particularly the contentious. Hatterene was for the most part considered fine? You could possibly make the argument that its nature was very fishy in a 6-0 nature when teambuilding and whatever but not obtaining an immediate +6 boost from one turn definitely does help. Enamorus-Therian now is also within the picture although the early and chaotic state of the meta dominated by brokens means it hard to really evaluate Triage Enam and judging off Hatterene it could end the same (although again you could still argue it still has a bad fishy nature). It does have the potential to be good but really, there's nothing proven so far. In the case of banning abilities, this also makes it harder to ban Triage given they are (for the most part) perfectly fine abusers of the ability like Aerilate. But hey you could make the argument still...

In conclusion, I agree that Triage + Belly Drum + Drain Punch is a very stupid component of the meta. It is just a very stupid combo that all it does is fish for dumb 6-0's given the extreme benefit and downsides of Belly Drum and is just a negative presence when you REALLY need to account for it in teambuilding. We've attempted to mitigate it so far by banning the most potent abusers like Iron Hands and Hariyama and Ursuluna is looking very suspect. With 2 and now approaching 3 mons banning in large part to Triage, it's definitely at a threshold where we can begin to talk about and look at Triage itself (even the guidelines say something along this line...) Yes there are dumb abusers but 2 of them are in large part so dumb because of their uniquely insane bulk, and there are other seemingly perfect fine Triage abusers in Hatterene and the somewhat unproven Enam-Therian. Limiting the options to Slowbro-Galar and Chesnaught, will it make it tolerable enough? Although, talking with Ivar about argument around banning Belly Drum, that ultimately even something as bad as Belly Drum Triage Slowbro could still ultimately be really dumb and realistically fish for 6-0's given +6 is a +6.

So should we ban it? Should we not? This is only my interpretation of the situation and I encourage you all to leave your opinions on Triage as well :3

 

[Big_Squatto]

At this point a complex ban for belly drum+triage specifically seems valid. Neither thing is busted on its own and there are too many users of it to keep banning individual mons imo

 

[Isaiah]

At this point a complex ban for belly drum+triage specifically seems valid. Neither thing is busted on its own and there are too many users of it to keep banning individual mons imo

A complex ban is not on the table. The metagame is nowhere near desperate (or broken) enough to warrant such an extreme course of action. If anything, individual abusers (or Triage itself) is what we would take action on.

 

[Isaiah]

The votes are in!

	Isaiah	UT	QT	atha	LordBox	DFM	Result
Sneasler	BAN	DNB	BAN	ABS	BAN	DNB	3-2-1 BAN
Enamorus-I	DNB	DNB	DNB	ABS	BAN	DNB	1-4-1 DO NOT BAN
Ursaluna	DNB	DNB	DNB	ABS	BAN	BAN	2-3-1 DO NOT BAN

Sneasler is now banned from Almost Any Ability! There isn't a ton to say here; It hits hard with Sword of Ruin sets, can fish for Sleep (using Serene Grace to boost this even further) against certain would-be checks like Intimidate Hippowdon and Fluffy Lando-T, is able to cripple defensive Pokemon with Switcheroo and has great Speed.

As you can see, all three of these votes were very close. As the metagame continues to develop, the council will also keep up with things so we can achieve the best version of balance possible :]

I won't speak for other council members, but if you're interested in why I voted a particular way I'll probably post as much when I have time to organize my thoughts.

Tagging Kris and Marty for implementation.

 

[clovre]

about time sneasler got sneasler got banned

anyways the post-home meta is finally starting to settle, people are finding out whats good and whats not, and my god they have found some good shit. starting with ursaluna, this thing is crazy, even if, hypothetically, triage got banned, this thing would still be insane. it has great coverage in headlong rush, trailblaze, shadow claw, gunk shot, rock slide, play rough, etc, and is one of the best bulky offensive mons in this meta.

enamorus is also a wicked mon, the SFLO set is arguably the best, though beads of ruin is still viable. a speed of 106 is enough to outspeed most mons, and its 135 special attack is nothing to scoff at. like ursaluna, it gets great coverage as well in moonblast, earth power, sludge bomb, mystical fire, focus blast, and grass knot. not much else to say, an amazing special attacker.

lando-t. good god he's back. despite his heavily nerfed movepool, he can still kick ass. if youre going for offense or defense, he has solid moves and stats to run both. a speed of 91 is not the best, but it's enough to outspeed some mons. abilities that change normal type moves into other types, specifically aerilate are amazing for lando. galvanize and refridgerate are also valid imo. like last gen, lando does lando things.

cresselia is finally back!! she's one of my favorite legendaries/mythicals. does a similar thing to what she did in gen 8, stamina + calm mind + stored power cheese as per usual. honestly dont have that much to say, solid pokemon with solid stats and a solid movepool.

regieleki is weird one to me, one hand it's really good, but also really bad. not many other pokemon can beat eleki as a glass cannon. this thing cannot take a single hit without fainting, but when it's able to get hits off, it's super powerful. similar to lando, it makes great use of normal type changing abilites, and with the inclusion of tera blast and refridgerate, it can finally get the boltbeam coverage it has always needed.

i'm really liking the post home meta overall, there's some bans i'd like and some unbans i'd like, but i'll just have to wait for suspect tests or polls. here's a recent team i just made including all the mons i talked about above. and corviknight. you can never escape corviknight.
https://pokepast.es/dcaa4edb7b4525c8

 

[Isaiah]

One of a few [experimental] stall teams I made after laddering for a couple of days. I think there are enough tools here to deal with most things, but this is AAA so don't be surprised if you occasionally get rolled by [insert random wallbreaker here]. Double Stealth Rock isn't an accident; the difficulty of getting them up can vary depending on matchup, but having them up at all is imo important enough to warrant having setters with opposite defensive profiles. You could consider making Hippowdon even slower for the animals running underleveled Corviknight, but that's mostly up to preference.

 

[cjw405]

Hoopa @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Taunt
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball

The idea of this set is it destiny bonds foes that may overwhelm your team. With taunt it can disable status moves from passive foes like scream tail and blocks HO leads like corviknight and spidops. If you have a good matchup it can force 2 ko's which may turn the tide of the match. This set isn't all perfect though as its easily walled dark and normal types and absolutely fails into faster priority users. But yeah I think it's a neat set.

 

[ghostlike]

One of a few [experimental] stall teams I made after laddering for a couple of days. I think there are enough tools here to deal with most things, but this is AAA so don't be surprised if you occasionally get rolled by [insert random wallbreaker here]. Double Stealth Rock isn't an accident; the difficulty of getting them up can vary depending on matchup, but having them up at all is imo important enough to warrant having setters with opposite defensive profiles. You could consider making Hippowdon even slower for the animals running underleveled Corviknight, but that's mostly up to preference.

I played against this team today and was deeply frustrated so I created the set to beat it.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 204 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Body Press
I don't know how good this set is but I will still use it for 1 more week just in case I run into that team again.

 

[Tea Guzzler]

so i've been playing a bit and i pretty confidently think enamorus will eventually end up getting banned.


Enamorus (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Moonblast
- Play Rough
- Earth Power
- Mystical Fire

part of why i think this mon is kind of dumb is dual fairy STABs off of 115/135 attacking stats. what this essentially means is that the most viable thing you want to be walling enamorus with (regenvest) simply fails - meloetta, goodra-h, and muk-a are all 2HKOed by play rough, and regenvest treads is heavily flawed (having to run an additional spdef wall just to not lose to waters / shocks). the same goes for other spdef walls, with garg being 2HKOed and well-baked spdef corv being a bad decision. this mon in general doesn't really have to interact with "standard" special walls in the same way as every other attacker thanks to being mixed sheer force.

so where does this leave us in terms of reliable long-term answers? well...
- ee dirge is probably the best option. its still bad but you at least get a wisp bot that can potentially snowball with torch song late-game.
- ee heatran is less unviable as a mon but has no recovery, stops you from using a viable heatran, and can get fished by superpower.
- moltres (and to a lesser extent talon) has the only typing resistant to all three of fire, ground, and fairy, and it can also annoy back with wisp + live with roost. however, to actually live moonblast you need to be max spdef and also have magic guard to not just drop to rocks. vessel + boots theoretically works too but you get knocked once and then enam 6-0s, thus no longer being a long-term reliable answer.

nothing else i could come up with works. the aforementioned spdef wbb corv is worse than all of these because you're using spdef corv in this meta.

tl;dr enamorus has no good long-term checks when running double fairy.

 

[Giagantic]

Another reminder post for some sets I've been running!

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
- Roost

This set is amazing, and can sweep plenty of teams! Taunt prevents Corviknights from from healing, stops Scream Tail in it's tracks entirely aside from pixiburst and can even handle Garganacl if you setup enough or have wisp'd it.

Another bird that is great currently is none other then, Zapdos!

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Zap Cannon
- Hurricane
- U-turn
- Roost

The set is a real pain to deal with, you can opt out of running U-turn but with the prevalence of AV meloetta dealing that 25%ish damage to it after para-ing it is really helpful at denying regenerator healing. The set a potent status spreader and dangerous to an extreme degree, it is also very haxy in nature, Hurricane Confusion compounded with Zap Cannon's paralysis makes for a difficult time for the opponent.

Slither Wing @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens / Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz

Do not forget this monster, Sneasler may have somewhat eclipsed it but with it gone this is just as good as it was prior to Home. It is fully capable of breaking most things regardless of set with the right predicts and smart play.

Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power
- Team Dependent Filler

Yes, it lost alot but it's offensive and utility movepool is nothing short of spectacular, SFLO in particular is nearly impossible to switch into with the right predicts on your side. Filler can be anything, from setup to further offensive coverage say for Blissey / Chansey or even hazards / utility moves. The point I am making is that this pink fetus is quite viable and shouldn't be slept on.

 

[LatiasDigs]

I've been thinking about belly drum, specifically what it will be like post-luna and potentially post-triage if/when either such instance occurs, So I decided to make a spreadsheet of some sample matchups to show what each can and can't do

the bdrum users I believe to be most notable besides luna are Cetitan, Chesnaut, and galarian Slowbro due to their stats and priority access

Sets Used: https://pokepast.es/5010f378736ee090

Given that Luna beats almost all of these i think its safe to say bdrum may be more manageable once its gone

The majority of asterisks (*) refer to a matchup that can only be won if the target is chipped, be it by hazards or a previous interaction, or its dependent on if the target runs the right immunity ability, but to disambiguate the ones besides that
-Cetitan struggles to 2hko things due to its lack of recovery, its fully capable of breaking corv with raw damage but might not live to deal the second hit
-Cetitan uses entrainment on Stail, which cant really kill it but it forces it to switch allowing you to potentially kill what switches in

with this data I believe tinted cetitan, which surprised me as having way better matchups than technician cetitan, would be capable of carrying the torch in the event triage is banned, and while on paper it holds its own compared to triage chesnaut/gbro, between its lack of recovery and the fact it gets bodied by triage itself, it may struggle getting a foothold in a triage legal meta, but its def worth testing when luna inevitably goes

 

[clovre]

here's a neat little set that i made while teambuilding against bd triage ursaluna
victory dance is an insane move and w/ a focus sash you can guarantee a hit or +1 to atk def and spe, and if you're able to get multiple of them up, you can sweep easily without worrying for priority.
calcs:
252 Atk Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Ursaluna: 258-306 (64.3 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ursaluna: 324-384 (69.8 - 82.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ursaluna: 486-572 (104.7 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Lilligant-Hisui Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Ursaluna: 390-458 (97 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
sadly most attacks from ursaluna will ohko at +6 but hilligant is still a very viable mon in this meta! it's very fun to use and is my favorite set up sweeper

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Lilligant-Hisui (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Ice Spinner/Poison Jab/Filler
- Victory Dance

 

[Isaiah]

The votes are in!

	Isaiah	UT	QT	atha	LordBox	DFM	Result
Sneasler	BAN	DNB	BAN	ABS	BAN	DNB	3-2-1 BAN
Enamorus-I	DNB	DNB	DNB	ABS	BAN	DNB	1-4-1 DO NOT BAN
Ursaluna	DNB	DNB	DNB	ABS	BAN	BAN	2-3-1 DO NOT BAN

Sneasler is now banned from Almost Any Ability! There isn't a ton to say here; It hits hard with Sword of Ruin sets, can fish for Sleep (using Serene Grace to boost this even further) against certain would-be checks like Intimidate Hippowdon and Fluffy Lando-T, is able to cripple defensive Pokemon with Switcheroo and has great Speed.

As you can see, all three of these votes were very close. As the metagame continues to develop, the council will also keep up with things so we can achieve the best version of balance possible :]

I won't speak for other council members, but if you're interested in why I voted a particular way I'll probably post as much when I have time to organize my thoughts.

Tagging Kris and Marty for implementation.

Before going into my thoughts on each of my votes, I figured I should give some context on when I do/don't decide to vote ban on something. Tiering semantics aside, my thought process is always that:

1) Bans should be a last resort. Last gen I was definitely more of a "ban everything" type and was pretty happy to nuke anything that seemed even remotely broken or uncompetitive to me, but over time that perspective has mellowed out a lot.

2) Calcing isn't all there is. If we balanced the metagame around damage calcs, we'd probably ban 5 things a week. Just calc Pokemon like Quaquaval, Slither Wing, and Tinted Lens Gardevoir into non-hard counters--it can be absolutely terrifying to get into the rabbit hole of calcing everything and forgetting that these Pokemon cannot be on every team, in every battle, and on the field every turn.

3) There is no such thing as a perfect metagame. Even amongst the [current] 6 council members alone, you can probably find no less than 2-3 very different perspectives on AAA: our approaches to teambuilding, playing, and even just tiering philosophy are never exactly the same. The reality is that everyone is playing their own version of the metagame in their minds; the best we can do is come to a general consensus and create a "template" that most people agree is competitive and enjoyable enough to continue engaging with.

- BAN
The issue with Sneasler wasn't the fact that it was too strong--Slither Wing exists, after all. The issue is when Dire Claw can be boosted to have a guaranteed proc every turn with Serene Grace, or when your already-burdened counterplay to a fast, strong physical attacker is now suddenly paralyzed, poisoned, or put to sleep entirely. It's the combination of how much stronger Sneasler can get in AAA (in comparison to what is realistically limited counterplay; there's a reason Intimidate Corviknight is such a staple) and its ability to reduce (and sometimes remove) skill. tl;dr sleep is a broken mechanic, and a "low" chance to proc doesn't change that for me. You could make the argument [as always] that perhaps with time, the meta would've found a way to adapt to Sneasler--and maybe that's true--but I won't lose any sleep leaving that to a future suspect test (if there's even any support to retest it).

- DNB
I'm generally a big fan of Pokemon that promote straightforward, simple gameplans: With Enamorus, a lot of the time the plan is, "If I can position this to get on the field and attack as often as possible, I can probably win". I don't have much to say on this except that I had hope we'd be able to figure this one out given more than a few days. Using RegenVesters on most non-HO is already a given anyway, so in theory there should be enough pressure available from faster Pokemon, Stealth Rock, and layered counterplay (e.g. a core like EE Skeledirge + AV Goodra-H) to handle Enamorus, despite how powerful it can be in theory. If that ends up not being the case (and maybe OMPL this week will be a good way to find out)...it'll unfortunately have to go.

- DNB
I don't think I saw a single good Ursaluna team before this vote (still waiting on one even now). And that's including screens, awful abominations like Choice Band (Corviknight is a legal Pokemon, btw), and Swords Dance. I'm also probably the most skeptical person when it comes to Belly Drum + Triage stuff as well; this is probably a hot take, but I don't think the combo of 1) games where Belly Drum + Triage is available and 1a) of those games, Belly Drum + Triage is uncompetitive happens in practice anywhere near enough to actually be worried about it. I concede that Ursaluna has an unprecedented amount of bulk for an abuser of this combo, but I don't think it's actually anywhere near "ban as a last resort" territory just yet.

If anything, I'd argue that Light Clay is more broken than anything on this list...I think screens are ridiculous and uncompetitive w/ that item.

 

[Iynhe]

I do remember a similar idea last gen, but with TAxel instead of Ice Spinner.

Mew @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Flare Blitz
- Ice Spinner

We could see how good it is this gen too.

 

[ImABigWhale]

- DNB
I don't think I saw a single good Ursaluna team before this vote (still waiting on one even now). And that's including screens, awful abominations like Choice Band (Corviknight is a legal Pokemon, btw), and Swords Dance. I'm also probably the most skeptical person when it comes to Belly Drum + Triage stuff as well; this is probably a hot take, but I don't think the combo of 1) games where Belly Drum + Triage is available and 1a) of those games, Belly Drum + Triage is uncompetitive happens in practice anywhere near enough to actually be worried about it. I concede that Ursaluna has an unprecedented amount of bulk for an abuser of this combo, but I don't think it's actually anywhere near "ban as a last resort" territory just yet.

If anything, I'd argue that Light Clay is more broken than anything on this list...I think screens are ridiculous and uncompetitive w/ that item.

On god it feels like the way the metagame currently stands you need to dedicate an entire Team slot, sometimes two, to effectively counter Belly Drum + Triage. It's not just Ursaluna. It was Iron Hands, then it was Hariyama, and now if you don't have a way to switch into Ursa, Chesnaught, or even G-Slowbro, you're just fucked. The game becomes fishing for a turn to hit BD. It feels incredibly similar to the Shed Tail ban in OU, where if your team doesn't have a specific set of ways to counter a Cyclizar switch in, you're just fucked. It's choking teambuilding and forcing everyone to worry about it, even if it doesn't show up in every game. Even with Pokemon Home increasing the counters available, it hasn't really helped.

 

[ShotgunSlayer]

What reliably walls hisuian arcanine? legit everytime I see it it's just sack mons until I can revenge kill it

 

[BoingK]

What reliably walls hisuian arcanine? legit everytime I see it it's just sack mons until I can revenge kill it

Physically defensive RegenChomp works well