AAA Almost Any Ability Suspect: Zygarde

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#1
It's time for a suspect



With the conclusion of OMPL, we will be suspecting Zygarde in AAA
- Zygarde seems to have an amazing ability to find more and more powerful sets as time goes on. With possession of the best offensive move in the game in Thousand Arrows, Zygarde was one of the best Pokemon in AAA from the start. Dragon Dance with Adaptability was the obvious starting point, but Poison Heal and Magic Bounce both carved out strong sets as well. From there, even Assault Vest Regenerator Zygarde has been proven to be a good pokemon. Now even Hustle, an ability previously unused by the majority of players in AAA at all, proved to be potentially it's most dangerous set. Proven in OMPL by Sylveon. who 6-0d a team with this Zygarde despite his opponent having Tapu Fini, Tapu Bulu, and Buzzwole! We believe this kind of power is centralizing to the metagame and teambuilding.

Suspect details: Suspects require you to achieve a certain GXE while playing over a certain amount of games. The trend with suspects is not using a suspect ladder, and just using the standard AAA ladder. Participants will therefore need to use a new alt to fulfill the requirements. More details below
  • All games must be played on the Pokemon Showdown! AAA ladder on a new alt acc with the following format: "AAAZ (Nick)." For example, I might register the alt AAAZ jrdn to ladder with. You must meet the listed format in order to qualify.
  • To qualify for voting, your alt must play a minimum of 30 games, and
  • You must have a minimum GXE of 78.
Tentatively think that's all there is. This is my first time hosting a suspect of any kind, so If I'm missing something, please let me know. I hope the reqs are reasonable as well, and please participate. AAA is the best meta and it deserves more play :) Deadline is Tuesday, August 28th at 11:59 GMT-4

If you have any questions I will definitely probably ask someone else to answer it for me and then get back to you and look like I know what I'm doing.

Tagging The Immortal

Also feel free to join the AAA discord https://discord.gg/3bUz7va
 
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#4
I'm surprised people don't run thick fat zygarde to deal with that ice weakness, or filter to ruin a fairy pokemon's day.
Zygarde is an offensive pokemon. Since it invests into Attack and Speed instead of HP and defenses, it uses teammates to take Ice and Fairy hits, while using abilities that either help against stall (i.e. Magic Bounce and Poison Heal) or boost its power even more (i.e. Adaptability, Hustle, and Tinted Lens). Thick Fat or Filter simply isn't useful or viable enough on Zygarde than just running a good defensive core.
 
#5
I just wanted to pop in and say that I regularly use a Mono Flying team in AAA, so I have an inherent weakness to Thousand Arrows, but I haven't had too large of a problem with most Zygarde I encounter. It only becomes an issue if you let it set up, so just don't let that happen, right? Same as any Dragon Dancer.
 
#9
Wow, what a struggle.


I've already played aaa extensively beforehand, but just to confirm I decided to use a couple HO teams with Zygarde (Shoutouts aesf for hail offence) which only cemented my beliefs.

Zygarde is too good.

It has more bulk than anything up to Buzzwole (look at Hipowdon and Skarm, Zyg has more bulk) which makes it very hard to revenge kill and very easy for it to setup. Stab Thousand Arrows paired with dragon stab gives it tremendous coverage, as it basically only needs 2 moveslots to have unresisted coverage (bar tapu bulu). Additionally, Zygarde never struggles with 4mss and assuming it's running dual stab + setup, it can easily fit its last slot with a lure move (such as hp flying, iron tail, draco meteor), a utility move (espeed, sub, toxic, etc...) or additional setup. All in all this means it can even pass its hardest defensive answers without much opportunity cost (if you don't know what that means, it means that zyg doesn't have to run subpar set to pass its usual counters, mixed adapt, band toxic adapt and hustle coil already put insane pressure on Buzzwole, mew or tapu fini without hampering Zygarde's moveset or ability slot). This makes it very hard to build a team that answers zygarde adequately, and it puts a massive strain on teambuilding.

I must also add that refrigerate espeed as an offensive counterplay isn't really good in this meta as most of the mons that would run it cannot beat their defensive checks with it, and it has far less offensive utility with the fall of gale wing and thudurus. So while it exists, it comes with massive opportunity cost (add to that the fact that none of these mons can switch on zyg).

So yeah, I think that covers it for my part, I'd probably voting ban.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This aside I want tell everyone that if you want to ladder for suspect but don't have any teams, you can find FREE, GOOD AAA TEAMS in the post ompl thread. I used mostly aesf's swinub hail team (which I do not recommend because it's very weak to regen mag) and aesf's veil HO (which is very good).
 
#12
I got reqs with an homage to the OG broken Zygarde set: Adaptability Z-Draco Meteor! Covered all its physically defensive checks fairly well and is still a great set.

Zygarde has all the tools it needs to be one of the most dominant forces in the metagame: offensive set-up, defensive set-up, bulk, power, and the most broken move in history. All it really lacks is good recovery, but this is AAA, and that can be fixed easily with abilities like Poison Heal or Regenerator (someone was running scarf regen I swear). The ridiculousness for me lies in the actual number of viable sets it has; I'd venture to say that out of the entire AAA meta, Zygarde has more possible USEFUL sets than any other Pokémon. When building I've found myself thinking "Alright this team handles Zygarde ok, unless it's Aerilate" or "unless it's that DD + Coil" or "unless it's MBounce Sub-Toxic" and so on. The enormous pressure it puts on teambuilding, and the way it can muscle past checks with the right sets almost 100% of the time, have led me to vote BAN.

Screen Shot 2018-08-16 at 2.45.40 PM.png


Also, I made a team myself to use on the ladder that worked very well, and I was undefeated up until battle 21 in which I played some whack AAA TL. Here's the team! Semi-E-Terrain Double Z-move team which boosts Zera's attacking power to some pretty ridiculous levels. Water Absorb Mag for Manaphy/Toxapex/Fini/Rain, and Toxic Triage Buzz to do the usual life-sucking Buzz stuff and not lose to other Triage Buzz. However, my real favorite set on this team was easily Flash Fire Weavile. It came in clutch for SO many of my games. Victini? Dead. Blacephalon? BlacephaGONE!

Thanks for reading, and like The Immortal undoubtedly said to his team in OMPL V, "Get this snake outta here"
 
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#13
it me


Got unlucky w/ some games at the end after starting 20-0, but its ok. I personally think Zygarde is just too strong for AAA. It's amazing defenses allow it to have sets that kill would-be counters to the usual sets. If you want to wall every Zygarde set, the fact that you need a misty surge grass/bug type with ice coverage is ludicrous. It's a ban from me.
 
#14
gdfvx.PNG

s/o krows discord aaa channel for teams

not sure how i feel about zygarde tbh. i dont think i got a great sense for it because i didnt run into too much of it and most of the teams i was using were very well prepared for it. i'm leaning towards ban atm but i think i could be swayed either way

edit: BAN ZYGARDE
 
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aesf

outskilled
#16
Screen Shot 2018-08-17 at 10.52.32 PM.png

I mostly used my ompl teams that I brought vs geerat in the end, but early on I sampled a ton of ompl team dump teams and there's definitely some gold in there.

My thoughts on Zygarde:
Planning for Zygarde makes you change the way you build half your team. Might be the most versatile threat this metagame has ever had. It has loads of different sets, each of which has completely different counters and would all be A or higher on the viability rankings (approximated rating in parentheses) -- Adaptability Mixed Dragonium (S), Adaptability Band + Iron Tail/Draco/Toxic (A+), Hustle Coil (A+), Refrigerate/Aerilate (A to A+), Assault Vest Regenerator (A), Poison Heal defensive setup (A to S), Poison Heal Offensive Setup (A to A+), Magic Bounce offensive setup (A+), or any Groundium set. The fact that you have to keep in mind all of these possible sets, and the fact that all of these sets are so threatening (perfect/near perfect coverage and whatnot), especially with Z, makes playing around Zygarde extremely difficult--there is almost no room for error. Adding onto this, Zygarde has no actual counters, so unless you know your opponent's team beforehand, switching in your zygarde check is always a risky play that could eliminate a key part of your team. And you can't always just pivot around to scout either; most Zygardes use setup, and a +2 hustle zygarde or a +2 mixed zygarde can be nearly impossible to beat.

Suppose you've discovered what set they're running through some calculated plays. Even then, without any elements of surprise, zygarde is definitely one of the best win-cons in AAA. It outspeeds most relevant speed control pokemon at +1 (AAA is a pretty slow/bulky metagame, not to mention hustle/refrigerate/aerilate zygarde have very strong espeeds anyway), and beats victini, one of the only common scarfers faster than it. If it doesn't set up, it's still a very bulky, powerful tank that can work as a functional electric immunity, fire resist, and rock resist. And circling back to setting up, it can utilize all these defensive bonuses to set up almost any time during the game. As such a bulky, powerful pokemon capable of fulfilling roles as a utility mon and as a win condition, zygarde can fit onto almost any team.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyability-782198729 -- look at this replay, for instance. itskimbo brought 3 of the most widely-used checks to zygarde in tapu fini, tapu bulu, and buzzwole. It's still a slaughterfest. (sorry dont get ptsd kimbo)

this thing is centralizing as fuck, ill be voting BAN
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#17


Ladder was cancer, even though its probably my fault for using stall the majority of the time (lol had to respect the username though). Anyways, glads its done and wanted to leave some of my thoughts in a sort of bullet point manner as to why I will be voting to ban Zygarde:

1. Too Versatile

Between the classic Sub + DD or SubCoil with Poison Heal, Adaptability Choice Band or DD, Aerilate DD, Magic Bounce setup sets, to the newly discovered Hustle + Coil sets even, Zygarde can completely alter what is actually able to check it depending on the set it chooses to run. Defensive Buzzwole? Adaptability Z-Draco says hi Whirlwhind Hippowdon? Get deflected by Magic Bounce. Toxic Unaware Chansey? Poison Heal appreciated that a ton. The issue I have with Zygarde specifically compared to other wallbreakers that can comparatively dance around their checks such as Volcorona, Victini, and Buzzwole is that Zygarde can do it so efficiently and does not sacrifice much with its move / ability slot when doing so. Meaning it can run all these sets that I had mentioned previously with equal success without forfeiting much in terms of viability. Having the combo of fatness and access to broken moves such as Tarrows and DD / Coil just elevates its potential exponentially, while being able to run incredible abilities such as Adapt, PH, Mbounce, and even Hustle that synergize extremely well with it makes it a bit overbearing imo.

2. Centralization

Usually I do not tend to agree with the argumentation of centralization in suspects but I find Zygarde's influence in the meta to be too prevalent in which an exceptional case can be made against it. The fact that most teams require solid Ground resists in general such as Buzzwole, Grassy Surge Tapu Fini, Golisopod, etc... (which are all good mons in their own right don't get me wrong), their near requirement on the majority of balance / bulky offensive teams mainly thanks to Zygarde attests to how powerful it is (where one only needs to look at the usage of the recent OMPL to see what im talking about). The best part about this though is that Zygarde can break through the aforementioned checks through a slight change in its moveset or ability thanks to its incredible versatility as I mentioned previously.

These were the main points kinda wanted to get across as others have kind of covered my thoughts on Zyg already. Ban the green snake plz.
 
#19
Will edit in vote later.

Got haxed on my previous alt when I was nearly there and got tilted. Wasn't a nice day. Afterwards I just grabbed a new team that was able to get quick wins instead of the rather long battles my balance team had (where it was harder to check certain things as well). Glad I participated after all.

Edit: BAN
 
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#22
1535140913769.png

Ban Zygarde.


Also, Fini definitally needs to be suspected after this, it's literally impossible to answer lol. I've seen people try basically everything, from prank haze users to unaware chansey to desolate land volc / heatran to even unaware Alomomola of all things, but it just doesn't work out. The calm Mind taunt is an impossibly good wincon / stallbreaker, and it's made even worse by the fact that you can get surprised and removed effortlessly should you try and use its checks and it turns out to be Whirlpool + Natures Madness. Add in its hilariously effective support sets and it's just way too much.
 
#24
I admit it's a good pokemon, but there are more OP pokemons that abuses certain abilites such as No guard Hypnosis Gengar, or Z hypnosis Xurkitree with ZAP CANON, or TRIAGE abusers that forces you to play magic guard and some bulky and stall pokemon with unaware. So that mean LIMITED TEAMBUILDING and an overcentralized meta. and only then, we can discuss about baning a good but not OP pokemon.

So, as far as i'm concerned, i vote for ZYGARDE: No Ban. Hope you take my request of suspectin those shitty broken abovementioned problems
 

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