Metagame Almost Any Ability

CrazyLasagna said:
While I know how good Shed Tail can be, I've barely seen it so I'm surprised it's been quickbanned. Has it been problematic for a lot of people?
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Yeah, while I didn't have many problems with it (incredible, I know), fundamentally if you lacked the mean to both remove the sub -usually that meant sacrificing a mon- AND have an answer to the now setupped mon, you would lose the game.
Without the sub it is much easier. And, if the sub was a slow one + for some reason the mon you had didn't have a pivot move, BOI it was even more free turns for the opponent.
 
blastablasta said:
I think it lost most of the best abusers in bax and gholdengo so we haven't really got to see it while people are adjusting to the meta, probably still op but the world will never know
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Bax's Brother (Iron Thorns) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician/Earth Eater
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Ice Punch
- Heavy Slam
- Dragon Dance
Perhaps if iron thorns got enough clout shed tail would truly become absolutely disgusting.....
isn't very fast, has really bad defensive typing so can't switch in easily, and doesn't fit in well easily with many team archetypes unlike bax who can reasonably go in bulky balance yep fits in shed tail
 
I know many will disagree with me here, but listen, the reason why I'm making this article is because of how overpowered Chien-Pao is in the Almost Any Ability metagame, since it's extremely fast, has tons of coverage moves such as Sucker Punch and Ice Shard, can constantly OHKO any other Pokémon on the battlefield beffore they last, and the only counter that it has is Toxapex but even then Chien-Pao learns Psychic Fangs when Toxapex is weak to Psychic Fangs since Poison is very weak to Psychic and due to the sky high Attack of Chien-Pao, it can KO Pex in an unlikely situation with either having the move be boosted by Strong Jaw or Tough Claws, and it's Dark/Ice typing allows it to hit any Pokémon such as Dragonite and Gengar for super-effective damage since even if Dragonite uses Aerilate boosted Extreme Speed, Chien-Pao can hold a Focus Sash and OHKO it with an Ice Shard or an Ice Spinner, as a solution to prevent it from getting OHKO'd.

It also can heal itself with Recover and has an ok 90 base SP Attack stat where it can hold Choice Specs and use moves like Dark Pulse and Blizzard to destroy any of the Pokémon that are weak to it with Sheer Force, just like Noivern did with Boomburst in Aerilate.

Again, disagree with me or not, but we need to stop being unfair to Weavile and ban it's new superior counterpart, Chien-Pao because he's way too fast and strong to have in this metagame and since Weavile got nerfed, that means there's another reason to Ban Chien-Pao since it counters so many of the Pokémon in the metagame that it's absolutely considered ban-worthy, now I'm not doing this to upset anyone or attack the administers or anything like that, I'm trying to say that this certain Pokémon has been nearly dominating the entire AAA metagame for a while now and it needs to be suspected about seeing it's either ban-worthy or not since it's used by many to abuse it's raw power and strength and since it's a Legendary, that's leads to more suspicion for a voting poll to see if it needs to be banned or not.

Sorry for that massive rant, I may have been a bit too harsh here but all of this is something I've witnessed since I have been playing Pokémon Showdown since Gen 9 was released and I've noticed that a lot of players in the AAA metagame use a Chien-Pao on their teams, and abuse it's power, so this needs to be considered and suspected.
 
Josephester672 said:
I know many will disagree with me here, but listen, the reason why I'm making this article is because of how overpowered Chien-Pao is in the Almost Any Ability metagame, since it's extremely fast, has tons of coverage moves such as Sucker Punch and Ice Shard, can constantly OHKO any other Pokémon on the battlefield beffore they last, and the only counter that it has is Toxapex but even then Chien-Pao learns Psychic Fangs when Toxapex is weak to Psychic Fangs since Poison is very weak to Psychic and due to the sky high Attack of Chien-Pao, it can KO Pex in an unlikely situation with either having the move be boosted by Strong Jaw or Tough Claws, and it's Dark/Ice typing allows it to hit any Pokémon such as Dragonite and Gengar for super-effective damage since even if Dragonite uses Aerilate boosted Extreme Speed, Chien-Pao can hold a Focus Sash and OHKO it with an Ice Shard or an Ice Spinner, as a solution to prevent it from getting OHKO'd.

It also can heal itself with Recover and has an ok 90 base SP Attack stat where it can hold Choice Specs and use moves like Dark Pulse and Blizzard to destroy any of the Pokémon that are weak to it with Sheer Force, just like Noivern did with Boomburst in Aerilate.

Again, disagree with me or not, but we need to stop being unfair to Weavile and ban it's new superior counterpart, Chien-Pao because he's way too fast and strong to have in this metagame and since Weavile got nerfed, that means there's another reason to Ban Chien-Pao since it counters so many of the Pokémon in the metagame that it's absolutely considered ban-worthy, now I'm not doing this to upset anyone or attack the administers or anything like that, I'm trying to say that this certain Pokémon has been nearly dominating the entire AAA metagame for a while now and it needs to be suspected about seeing it's either ban-worthy or not since it's used by many to abuse it's raw power and strength and since it's a Legendary, that's leads to more suspicion for a voting poll to see if it needs to be banned or not.

Sorry for that massive rant, I may have been a bit too harsh here but all of this is something I've witnessed since I have been playing Pokémon Showdown since Gen 9 was released and I've noticed that a lot of players in the AAA metagame use a Chien-Pao on their teams, and abuse it's power, so this needs to be considered and suspected.
Click to expand...

I could see Chien-Pao eventually being problematic enough to get banned (after all, Weavile got banned last gen), but just wanted to point out some counterplay that you're perhaps missing:

DEFENSIVE:

:Corviknight:
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Roost

Corviknight switches in and can put loads of pressure on basically any realistic Chien-Pao, limiting them to having to go for Icicle Crash flinches to actually win the matchup. Body Press autowins the one-on-one, but you can also U-turn into some other things on this list (Triage Hatterene, a [faster] priority user, etc.). Even without intimidate, Corviknight actually eats attacks from Chien-Pao decently well.

:Dondozo:
Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard / Intimidate / Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Curse
- Wave Crash
- Rest
- Earthquake

Pretty self-explanatory switch-in. Dondozo is simply too fat for Chien-Pao in most cases and can afford to just set up or just 2HKO even with +0 Wave Crash.

:Quaquaval:
Quaquaval @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Covert Cloak
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Low Kick
- Roost

Admittedly not as popular as the Magic Guard (which can also check Chien-Pao) set and definitely still struggles against Psychic Fangs (which isn't a common set anyway), defensive Water/Fighting type is an obvious check to the Dark/Ice type, so I doubt this needs any explanation.

:Scream Tail:
Scream Tail @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam

Yeah...Chien-Pao is never getting past this without the hax of a lifetime. Crazy good mon btw.

OFFENSIVE:

:Hatterene:
Hatterene (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Mystical Fire

Triage-boosted Draining Kiss OHKOes or 2HKOes sash variants, and you can even just go for Mystical Fire if you fear a Queenly Majesty set or something (Chien-Pao can't OHKO Hatterene with any move unless it's Choice Band + Adamant + Sword of Ruin, which will announce itself pretty quickly anyway).

Slither Wing @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
- Will-O-Wisp

Another priority moment, beats all the non-Queenly Majesty/sash variants.

:Kingambit:
Kingambit @ Leftovers
Ability: Doesn't really matter
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Kowtow Cleave
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

Usually wins if they aren't Sacred Sword.

And you already mentioned Dragonite so I won't go into that, but just wanted to lay out some more good examples than the ones given.
----

I think with how common physically defensive Corviknight (particularly setup and body press variants) is right now, it's hard to make a good case for a Chien-Pao ban--after all, there's a Pokemon that beats it and also happens to fit on every team you can conceivably build LOL. The surprise factor of trying to revenge kill a priority-immune or sashed Chien-Pao and losing your Pokemon can be really annoying, but realistically those sets are somewhat telegraphed and are weak enough (due to lack of boosting ability/item) to still play around regardless. Hope this helps :P
 
SURVEY RESULTS

Double posting for survey results time! In total we were able to get 89 responses, which is the most we've ever gotten :]​

Magic Bounce
1679777053635.png
51.6% of respondents were explicitly against re-suspect testing Magic Bounce. 30.3% of respondents were explicitly in support of a Magic Bounce re-suspect test.

2 Ability Clause (Teams are allowed up to 2 of each ability)
Context: Currently, teams are only allowed up to 1 of each ability, with clones like Mold Breaker vs Turboblaze counting as the same ability.
1679778420586.png
59.5% of respondents were explicitly against re-suspect testing 2 Ability Clause. 28.1% of respondents were explicitly in support of re-suspect testing 2 Ability Clause.

Free response:
- Special attackers: Gengar, Hisuian Zoroark, and Iron Moth came up multiple times. Currently, handling special attackers isn't the easiest thing to consistently do, demonstrated by the fact that RegenVest Garchomp and Blissey have become more common. We'll just have to see how the metagame continues to develop over time and take whatever tiering action is necessary to keep it balanced :P
- Chien-Pao: Pretty much answered this in the post above.
- Well-Baked Body: It's certainly unusual for an immunity ability to have such a harsh punishment for scouting it incorrectly, and as such WBB is on the watchlist to see if the ability needs action in the future.

Updated watchlist:
Gengar
Hisuian Zoroark
Iron Moth
Meowscarada
Talonflame
Well-Baked Body

We keep the watchlist up-to-date in the OP btw :P
 
Spooky, Scary Ghosts
:gengar::zoroark-hisui:
As discussed in the prior post, special attackers in the tier have been pretty rough to deal with currently given the abundant amount of monstrous special breakers that can rip and tear without careful building. Hadron Engine Sandy Shocks, DesoLand/Beads Iron Moth, PrimSea Greninja, DMaw/Beads Hydreigon just to name a few. However, not calling for a direct suspect or qban, I want to put a bit more of a spotlight on probably the most vicious of these breakers, Gengar and Zoraork-Hisui.

So what makes them so vicious? Looking at their most popular sets, SFLO, it quickly becomes obvious. High special attack (130 and 125 base), Nasty Plot, STAB SBall for great neutral coverage complemented by Fighting coverage in Focus Blast to tear apart any resistant foes, all boosted by Sheer Force and Life Orb for immense power. Many conventional special walls like Sand Stream Garganacl, RegenVest Roaring Moon, Ting-Lu and Iron Treads being torn apart by the coverage and power and many frailer neutrals targets simply getting OHKO'd. Nasty Plot, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball being the only real moves they need to devastate a large majority of the meta, there's still a 4th moveslot both Ghosts can amply take advantage of. Zoro-H can afford to run a Sheer Force-boosted Body Slam that can 2HKO many bulky neutral special walls like Blissey, Clodsire and Florges or the more utility based U-Turn and Knock Off to keep up momentum and chip or irritate switch-ins, Gengar able to run more coverage moves or the likes of Toxic, Taunt and Will-O-Wisp to irritate defensive answers like Unaware Blissey.

The effects of this all is obvious in many teams (and the amount of teams that just straight up fail to Gengar defensively), the likes of Bulletproof Iron Treads and mixed defensive Purifying Salt Clodsire appearing just for the Ghosts (see DFM's and Isaiah's suspect team) and the rising popularity of neutral special walls like RegenVest Garchomp (or just specially defensive) to stifle and ward off the Ghost-types immense pressure, and they do alright, against the standard SFLO sets. However, the Ghosts aren't just restricted to stock standard SFLO sets and even those sets can irritate checks with their 4th move. Less popular sets, but still as dangerous imo, including Specs/Black Sludge Trick Gengar and similarly Specs/Scarf Trick or MGLO Zoro-H which can even play around these dedicated checks.

MGLO Zoro-H is a neat alternative that gives up immediate breaking power for playing the long-term against dedicated checks. Will-O-Wisp and Knock Off weaken checks like RegenVest Tinkaton and Garchomp to the point of being able to broken through, Hex allows still good power and the ability to beat the likes of Bulletproof Iron Treads and U-Turn is an infinitely spammable and useful move. Trick variants also can cripple even very specific answers like Purifying Salt Clodsire with a item removal and a Choice-lock or Black Sludge residual damage for the rest while still retaining use alone with great power in Choice Specs or Scarf to blaze past the metagame.

Of course, these Ghosts aren't entirely flawless, or they'd have already been banned. Their speed, while no slouch and able to outspeed the likes of Sandy Shocks and Garchomp which other slower breakers like MGLO Lucario and Specs Gardevoir can't say, isn't amazingly fast either, outsped by many offensive threats like Meowscarada, Greninja and Chien-Pao. This is further combined with their immense fragility which lets them get revenge-killed easily and also can make it hard to find safe opportunities to setup or get in the first place. This, however, can be remedied by the large amount of pivot within the tier and the immense offensive pressure both exert to force a switch-out (although still being a gamble).

Despite this, the main straightfoward issue with the Ghosts still remains. Even if the Ghosts wont ever be impossible to play around given their speed and fragility, the amount of offensive pressure they present is ridiculous, if the appearance of sets like Bulletproof Iron Treads and Purifying Salt Clodsire w/ mixed investment isn't enough indication of that. And even then, still having options to irritate, play around and even beat these checks, and as people play more with the Ghosts (which are kinda underexplored and used imo) I imagine it'll become increasingly obvious how stupid these Ghosts can be.
 

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It's past time we talked about rage fist.

Early on in the gen, Annihilape was legal, and, obviously, completely broken. But while it was readily apparent that Annihilape was overall a cool addition to the metagame and it was Rage Fist that broke it, it's smogon policy that unless a move is broken on an overwhelming majority of its users, it can't be banned. Since Primeape got Rage Fist, that meant Ape had to go. Or did it?

Primeape is, of course, a worse Rage Fist user than Annihilape. It has worse stats, a worse defensive typing, no STAB on rage fist... the only thing it has going for it is a resistance to dark attacks and slightly nigher speed. But once Annihilape is banned, well, the broken mechanic still remains. For those of us who have forgotten in the months since it stopped murdering our teams, Rage fist is a physical, contact ghost-type attack that starts at 50 BP and increments by 50 every time the user is hit, up to a total of 350 BP. This, let us note, does not care about how strong an attack is, whether it is physical or special, etcetera, and does not go away when you switch. This makes it rediculously powerful, even without investment; 0 attack primeape can 2hko corviknight, for instance. But this still leaves the question of, "if rage fist is so broken in theory, why doesn't it break Primeape?"

Well, the short answer is, it does. I just posted an rmt of my ladder-peaking Primeape team, and the mon goes absolutely bananas as long as the matchup is remotely favorable. Rest Talk Drain Punch Rage Fist Fluffy Primeape was the set I used, and I think is the best combination of opportunity cost and brokeness, but just about any defensive ability will do on the right team. I already posted a bunch of replays there showing the team in action, but here are a few that I didn't that still show Primeape being absolutely insane inside a game:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1829348214 - tears apart an enemy defensive core like paper
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1829369068 - Bullies aaa suspect ladderer for iirc the second time that day, sorry about that one
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1829377346 - Completely shuts down kingambit, showing that even aside from rage fist Primeape offers great utility into viable, dangerous offensive threats
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1830098047 - Primeape shreds the team.

When a move is broken on all of its users, we should ban the broken element and save the pokemon. Thus, I would like to Ban Rage Fist and free Annihilape.
 
Against a Rage Fist ban for a few reasons:

1. The replays posted both in the above post and in the RMT mentioned were unimpressive. Most of these were ladder replays and anything can fucking work on ladder. I've laddered with shit like Steelworker Revaroom to Double Dance Slowking to Aerilate Iron Jugulis and gotten wins because ladder is stupid, but that doesn't necessarily make them broken, nor does this make these threats viable in the slightest. Realistically only 2 of those replays are valuable (the AAA Money tour ones), but they're against the same opponent and against teams that weren't actively prepping for bulky setup sweepers, let alone Primeape specifically. I will also ignore the glaring weakness the team has to Icy Wind Zoro because no one is running it (yet).

2. Primeape has seen negative tour usage until just last week. Why would we ban something that hasn't actually been used enough for counterplay to develop? Maybe it turns out that counterplay is scarce enough for it to be banned; fine. But shouldn't that wait until at least after the current suspect test concludes as well as potentially another survey? Shit like Gengar and Iron Moth have been talked about for much longer than Rage Fist has been relevant and are much more broken than Primeape, should these not take priority over something that was "discovered" just under a week ago?

3. For the sake of the argument, let's say Rage Fist is stupid. Wouldn't it make more sense to ban Primeape over Annilhape? Primeape can shed its useless ability in another metagame for Fluffy, an extremely useful ability that synergizes well with its Eviolite-boosted bulk. It also has access to STAB Drain Punch, which not only heals itself but gives Primeape near unresisted neutral coverage when combined with Rage Fist. If you slap Rage Fist on its pre-evo, Mankey, it becomes a low ladder trap at best and an extremely weird and questionable GameFreak decision at worst. I also don't agree with the line of thinking "When a move is broken on all of its users, we should ban the broken element and save the pokemon" considering Rabsca is still a piece of shit even in AAA and there are 20+ Baton Pass users that are completely fine because they lack good boosting moves/stats. In non-move-based OMs, moves are banned because they are inherently uncompetitive, not because they end up busted on one mon and potentially on another, or else Last Respects would have been removed from OU instead of Houndstone (context: Basculegion is coded to get Last Respects). So far, I am not seeing a case that Rage Fist is inherently uncompetitive; people are free to make that case though.

Idk maybe I'm just a curmudgeony contrarian that disagrees with council members a lot but I don't think calling for a ban on something that hasn't even been relevant for a week is a good idea
 
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tall woman (Froslass) @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf / Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder / Switcheroo / Trick / Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam

funny boltbeam froslass set inspired by a fortemons video i watched on youtube

catches opponents by surprise by ohkoing their corv/dealing decent dmg to their lead
 
TheRealOne said:
Hi can someone create a team based on this thing right here?
https://pokepast.es/4ca8fd9e984ce935
I've been trying to making a team but i can't think of anything to put, can someone help me?
Click to expand...
You’re likely gonna need a sun setter, but with all the primal weather mons & sand stream nacls running around basic weather is generally an unreliable strat. Most ceruledges I’ve seen are desolate land, both boosting their fire moves & removing their water weakness. They also typically hold boots over sash since hazards cripple them.
Also, terra is banned so you don’t need to worry about terratypes.
 
Gwanian said:
You’re likely gonna need a sun setter, but with all the primal weather mons & sand stream nacls running around basic weather is generally an unreliable strat. Most ceruledges I’ve seen are desolate land, both boosting their fire moves & removing their water weakness. They also typically hold boots over sash since hazards cripple them.
Also, terra is banned so you don’t need to worry about terratypes.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I didn't know tera was banned but thanks anyways
 
UngaTheDunga said:
Can someone tell me if my team is good?
Heres the team:
https://pokepast.es/bcc67bd417273e80
Click to expand...
Bulk up/ID corv is probably more valuable than 2 attacks if you’re not gonna run defog, and Aerialate espeed is definitely more valuable on dnite than supreme overlord. If quaq is going to be your only hazard removal, you probably want roost on it. A special attacker would be nice too, otherwise you will struggle with corv.

I’m a bit curious about what your intentions are with ting-lu’s speed, if you care to explain.
 
Gwanian said:
That looks like a balance team to me. What mons tend to give you issues? Nacl looks annoying from what I can infer w/o using the team myself. A MGLO or Cloak mon might help.
Click to expand...

I tend to have some issues with Nacl, but also ting lu. I don't tend to see nacl that much but maybe that is because I am low ladder. the primordial sea killawatral also messed my team up pretty good.
 
Gwanian said:
Bulk up/ID corv is probably more valuable than 2 attacks if you’re not gonna run defog, and Aerialate espeed is definitely more valuable on dnite than supreme overlord. If quaq is going to be your only hazard removal, you probably want roost on it. A special attacker would be nice too, otherwise you will struggle with corv.

I’m a bit curious about what your intentions are with ting-lu’s speed, if you care to explain.
Click to expand...
The slow speed is to keep momentum with corvi
And thanks for the help!

barky641 said:
I tend to have some issues with Nacl, but also ting lu. I don't tend to see nacl that much but maybe that is because I am low ladder. the primordial sea killawatral also messed my team up pretty good.
Click to expand...
You can some grass type instead of sandy shocks
 
barky641 said:
Thanks, yeah I'm not having much luck with sandy it's strong as hell but generally just switches into immunity then puts me on the back foot. I'll give a grass type a go thanks for your help.
Click to expand...
Is your chomp ev’d for anything in particular? I’m assuming not as you just put 150 in both defensive stats. Spdef regen chomp helps a lot with sandy shocks and wattrel. If you’re okay with completely swapping out mons you could try regenvest goodra as well.
Actually, if you’ve got the time, could you explain all your ev choices? The more I look, the more interesting spreads I notice.
For lu & nacl, strong special attackers with focus blast are pretty good at keeping them out, as well as strong physical attackers with close combat. I’d recommend MGLO Quaquaval personally, as it’s super easy to get in on nacl. MGLO Lucario works too (I prefer to use it as well), but it’s not as safe of a switch in to nacl as quaq is.
 
UngaTheDunga said:
Can someone tell me if my team is good?
Heres the team:
https://pokepast.es/bcc67bd417273e80
Click to expand...
To preface this, keep in mind that Tera is banned
  • Corviknight doesn't really need both Brave Bird and Body Press, it'd rather run Defog over one of them, especially since Quaquaval is the team's only form of hazard control as of now
  • Having multiple Fire immunities is somewhat redundant; I'd change either Corviknight's or Quaquaval's ability
    • Corviknight could be changed to one of Fluffy, Intimidate, or Volt Absorb
    • Quaquaval could be changed to Magic Guard
  • Quaquaval could use several changes
    • Ice Spinner isn't particularly necessary and should be swapped out to Swords Dance or Roost
    • Since we already have Rapid Spin to boost Quaquaval's Speed, Wave Crash's higher power might be preferred over Aqua Step's Speed boost
    • Mystic Water (or Life Orb if Magic Guard) is an alternative to Leftovers if extra power is desired
  • Dragonite should run Aerilate over Supreme Overlord
    • Supreme Overlord is 1.5x when all of its allies are fainted, whereas Aerilate is 1.8x right off the bat
    • Flying is a much better offensive type than Normal
  • Toxapex feels really out of place on an offense team; some kind of pivot would be more fitting
Here's a revised version I put together: :corviknight::ceruledge::ting-lu::quaquaval::dragonite::sandy shocks:
  • The following changes have been made to Corviknight:
    • Body Press has been changed to Defog to help deal with hazards
    • Rocky Helmet has been changed to Leftovers, as Corviknight is the team's only solid answer to a lot of physical attackers and therefore needs all the longevity it can get
  • The following changes have been made to Quaquaval:
    • Since Corviknight already deals with Fire-types, Quaquaval has had its ability changed to Magic Guard to bolster its longevity
    • Since it's now Magic Guard, its item has been changed to Life Orb to keep it threatening
    • Ice Spinner has been changed to Roost
  • Supreme Overlord has been changed to Aerilate on Dragonite
  • Toxapex has been replaced with Sandy Shocks for the following reasons:
    • It helps to bring in its teammates with Volt Switch
    • It breaks past Well-Baked Body Corv, which was something of a tough matchup
    • It provides immediate power, something the team was somewhat lacking in
barky641 said:
Hey guys,

I tend to struggle with defensive cores.

This is my team, it is fairly hyper offensive but I feel I need an answer to said defensive cores.
https://pokepast.es/2839185635c8c719

Has anyone got any ideas?
Click to expand...
  • Corviknight would much rather run something like Intimidate, Well-Baked Body, Fluffy, or Volt Absorb over Iron Barbs
  • I'm not entirely sure what Corv's and Garchomp's EV spreads are meant to accomplish, feels like max bulk investment would generally be more useful
  • Cinderace really wants some way to negate hazard chip
  • Iron Moth's current set is very prediction reliant, easy to switch around, and prone to being worn down by hazards
  • Iron Treads should have Volt Switch over Stone Edge. Besides that, this doesn't do much outside of the Iron Moth matchup.
Here's a revised version I put together: :corviknight::cinderace::garchomp::meowscarada::iron moth::kingambit:
  • Corviknight's and Garchomp's EV spreads have been changed to maximize their defensive capabilities
  • Corviknight has been given Intimidate to help it against physical attackers
  • Rocky Helmet has been changed to Leftovers for extra longevity
  • MG remedies Cinderace's problems with entry hazard chip. Heavy Duty Boots + Mold Breaker/Drought would also work here.
  • Court Change has been changed to High Jump Kick to let it chunk stuff like WBB Steels, Garganacl, and Ting-Lu, though this change could be reverted
  • Heavy-Duty Boots with Fiery Dance/Discharge/U-turn/Morning Sun can't be switched around as easily, as it isn't hindered by choice lock nor does it have to worry about being worn down by hazards or weaker attacks
  • Sandy Shocks has been replaced with Meowscarada to help pressure Ground-types, as suggested by UngaTheDunga
  • Kingambit fills in Iron Treads's role as an Iron Moth answer while also providing a wincon, something the team was somewhat lacking in prior
Keep in mind that the changes made are subjective
 
Gwanian said:
Is your chomp ev’d for anything in particular? I’m assuming not as you just put 150 in both defensive stats. Spdef regen chomp helps a lot with sandy shocks and wattrel. If you’re okay with completely swapping out mons you could try regenvest goodra as well.
Actually, if you’ve got the time, could you explain all your ev choices? The more I look, the more interesting spreads I notice.
For lu & nacl, strong special attackers with focus blast are pretty good at keeping them out, as well as strong physical attackers with close combat. I’d recommend MGLO Quaquaval personally, as it’s super easy to get in on nacl. MGLO Lucario works too (I prefer to use it as well), but it’s not as safe of a switch in to nacl as quaq is.
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thanks for the info, I'm a fairly new player so none of my EV's are really optimized at all. This was just the first team I created after learning about the tier so some of it is pretty random now that I look back on it.

Garchomp is not optimised for anything I just wanted some defence ev's (not sure why) when I created the team. I'll try out the special defence investment as killawatral smokes my team pretty bad as I can't get sandy shocks in safely most of the time.

Corv I was going to do just max defence and max HP but thought maybe a bit of attack investment would make my brave birds sting a bit more, but without lefties it does not stick around as long as I would like, so it's probably a good idea to go max defence as it is my sole switch in for physical attacks. really love how it punishes U-turns and rapid spins with the rocky helmet and iron barbs.

Iron treads have some special defence investment so I can check fire types (mostly iron moth) plus assault vests can give me the extra bulk on that side of the spectrum. however, I do miss stealth rocks as it getting both hazards with garchamp can be difficult.

and the rest are just maxed speed and max attacking stat so I don't see a reason to explain there.

I'm fairly new to teambuilding so I'm aware these could be very flawed, so if you have any tips I would really appreciate the help. I've played a few tiers but never have enjoyed them anywhere near as much as this one so any help would be appreciated so I can hopefully lift my game.

Also what does MGLO stand for?

Tanny89k said:
To preface this, keep in mind that Tera is banned
  • Corviknight doesn't really need both Brave Bird and Body Press, it'd rather run Defog over one of them, especially since Quaquaval is the team's only form of hazard control as of now
  • Having multiple Fire immunities is somewhat redundant; I'd change either Corviknight's or Quaquaval's ability
    • Corviknight could be changed to one of Fluffy, Intimidate, or Volt Absorb
    • Quaquaval could be changed to Magic Guard
  • Quaquaval could use several changes
    • Ice Spinner isn't particularly necessary and should be swapped out to Swords Dance or Roost
    • Since we already have Rapid Spin to boost Quaquaval's Speed, Wave Crash's higher power might be preferred over Aqua Step's Speed boost
    • Mystic Water (or Life Orb if Magic Guard) is an alternative to Leftovers if extra power is desired
  • Dragonite should run Aerilate over Supreme Overlord
    • Supreme Overlord is 1.5x when all of its allies are fainted, whereas Aerilate is 1.8x right off the bat
    • Flying is a much better offensive type than Normal
  • Toxapex feels really out of place on an offense team; some kind of pivot would be more fitting
Here's a revised version I put together: :corviknight::ceruledge::ting-lu::quaquaval::dragonite::sandy shocks:
  • The following changes have been made to Corviknight:
    • Body Press has been changed to Defog to help deal with hazards
    • Rocky Helmet has been changed to Leftovers, as Corviknight is the team's only solid answer to a lot of physical attackers and therefore needs all the longevity it can get
  • The following changes have been made to Quaquaval:
    • Since Corviknight already deals with Fire-types, Quaquaval has had its ability changed to Magic Guard to bolster its longevity
    • Since it's now Magic Guard, its item has been changed to Life Orb to keep it threatening
    • Ice Spinner has been changed to Roost
  • Supreme Overlord has been changed to Aerilate on Dragonite
  • Toxapex has been replaced with Sandy Shocks for the following reasons:
    • It helps to bring in its teammates with Volt Switch
    • It breaks past Well-Baked Body Corv, which was something of a tough matchup
    • It provides immediate power, something the team was somewhat lacking in

  • Corviknight would much rather run something like Intimidate, Well-Baked Body, Fluffy, or Volt Absorb over Iron Barbs
  • I'm not entirely sure what Corv's and Garchomp's EV spreads are meant to accomplish, feels like max bulk investment would generally be more useful
  • Cinderace really wants some way to negate hazard chip
  • Iron Moth's current set is very prediction reliant, easy to switch around, and prone to being worn down by hazards
  • Iron Treads should have Volt Switch over Stone Edge. Besides that, this doesn't do much outside of the Iron Moth matchup.
Here's a revised version I put together: :corviknight::cinderace::garchomp::meowscarada::iron moth::kingambit:
  • Corviknight's and Garchomp's EV spreads have been changed to maximize their defensive capabilities
  • Corviknight has been given Intimidate to help it against physical attackers
  • Rocky Helmet has been changed to Leftovers for extra longevity
  • MG remedies Cinderace's problems with entry hazard chip. Heavy Duty Boots + Mold Breaker/Drought would also work here.
  • Court Change has been changed to High Jump Kick to let it chunk stuff like WBB Steels, Garganacl, and Ting-Lu, though this change could be reverted
  • Heavy-Duty Boots with Fiery Dance/Discharge/U-turn/Morning Sun can't be switched around as easily, as it isn't hindered by choice lock nor does it have to worry about being worn down by hazards or weaker attacks
  • Sandy Shocks has been replaced with Meowscarada to help pressure Ground-types, as suggested by UngaTheDunga
  • Kingambit fills in Iron Treads's role as an Iron Moth answer while also providing a wincon, something the team was somewhat lacking in prior
Keep in mind that the changes made are subjective
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Thank you so much I will give this a try :)
 
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