Metagame Alphabet Cup

[RodentTamer]

Suicune should definetly be ranked, one of the best mixed walls with a ton of options(prob A or A- imo)

Click to collapse...

I fully agree. Especially since it’s already got a good enough movepool, and now having access to one of the best letters in the format, S, i think Suicune can safely become an A- or solid A depending on what it’s used for like you’ve said

Suicune @ Mystic Water
Ability: Pressure / Inner Focus
Tera Type: Water / Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Scale Shot
- Sacred Sword
- Scald / Surf / Sludge Bomb / Sparkling Aria
- Strength Sap / Substitute

Works Pretty well given how S opens up WAY more options and Scale Shot gives it WAY more speed to punish Scarf users, and Dragons that come in it. Overall a good breaker set to hit both types of bulk.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Salt Cure
- Strength Sap
- Scald / Sparkling Aria
- Substitute / Spikes

Then we have our stall that can chip foes and spread said chip. This set + Knock Off users / Skill Swap Slaking can annoy opponents VERY quickly.

 

[readytolose]

I gotta make some nominations to the official VR. Agree with Suicune being ranked. I don't feel like arguing more about Ninetales.

:Archaludon: -> A-
I feel like this mon was probably just forgotten about? Archaludon is great and pretty distinctive from the omnipresent Hisui Goodra. It's got a ton of weird options you can lose to and is a good setup mon in general because Toxapex can't really do much to it in a lot of cases. Electro Shot makes it a great breaker for a rain team. Specs + Dragon Energy can let it get some surprise 2HKOs with extreme power. Doom Desire can be really punishing for some teams to dance around if you can punish Toxapex well. Armor Cannon is great coverage for non-rain sets. Agility + Power Herb can randomly pop up to destroy offense. Amnesia + Electro Shot is a weirdo set I encountered once that was really tough to break for my balance team. Dragon Dance is a dark horse that can be really effective against teams without Corviknight.

:Great Tusk: -> A-
One of the best spinners and it has a great matchup against a lot of the format's defensive backbone, it's pretty similarly flexible as in standard play. On a sun team, Protosynthesis gives it more utility, especially since the sun setters can pivot now which makes it easier to bring in. Also you can just throw it in front of Skill Swap Slaking.

:Heatran: -> B+
It's a really good stall breaker with Magma Storm + Taunt. A lot of teams have Toxapex as their Fire resist which can't even do anything to it at all unless it runs a water move. Defensive mons like Goodra-Hisui and bulky Salamence tend to favor Sacred Fire spam over EQ so Heatran can prey on that sort of teambuilding construction too. If you run Stealth Rock on it, it can always keep that up against Toxapex. Also it's Fire immune which can be a slapdash way to dissuade CB Volcanion or Cinderace from using certain moves.

:Inteleon: -> B
You're gonna have to hear me out for this one. It plays differently enough from other offensive Water-types to have some good merit largely due to its better speed tier. Inteleon has great offensive stats and a powerful and spammable move in Specs Steam Eruption, especially since nothing really likes being burned. What's even better is it has Sandsear Storm which is like the perfect coverage for this meta. It hits Goodra-H, Toxapex, Volcanion, pretty much all the best water resists. The fact that there aren't many good bulky Grass types really lets it pull a lot of weight with this coverage set. It can be harder to dance around than Walking Wake cause it's not reliant on being at full health and it can hit targets that resist Water with a more spammable move than Draco Meteor, and it's faster too. Inteleon also has Switcheroo which means that it can just pass its Specs off onto that Goodra-H, Blissey or whatever if you prefer it. It's got a deep movepool too, like Ice Beam for Salamence, Seed Flare for bulky waters, Secret Sword for Blissey, can set up a Spike or pivot out, etc. Inteleon's really a sleeper hit that is easily overlooked due to a mid typing and no good abilities.

 

[RodentTamer]

Sinistcha is honestly a good A- or B+ mon. Having access to both S (one of the best letters in the metagame) and P, helps it get more chances to fight against both its weaknesses with Scorching Sands, Sparkling Aria, and Psychic/Psyshock, and give it just enough leg room to answer its many
checks and bulkier foes.

View attachment 518736
Credit to IMakeNoSense for art, it is good​

Alphabet Cup
In addition to their normal moveset, all Pokémon get every move with which they share a starting letter.

Prevo Clause: Pokémon also gain access to letters available in their prior evolutions.
For example, Blissey is able to run moves that start with H and C because its evolution family includes Happiny and Chansey.

Leaders:
Eli
InkyDarkBird
BandedBodyPress

Clauses: Sleep Moves Clause, Standard OMs, Terastalization Clause

Bans:

Pokémon

Annihilape
Arceus
Baxcalibur
Blaziken
Calyrex-Ice
Calyrex-Shadow
Chien-Pao
Chi-Yu
Deoxys-Base
Deoxys-Attack
Dialga
Dialga-Origin
Dragapult
Dragonite
Espathra
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Giratina
Giratina-Origin
Gouging Fire
Groudon
Ho-Oh
Iron Bundle
Kingambit
Koraidon
Kyogre
Kyurem-Black
Kyurem-White
Landorus-Base
Lugia
Lunala
Magearna
Magearna-Original
Mamoswine
Meowscarada
Mewtwo
Miraidon
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Palafin
Palkia
Palkia-Origin
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Sceptile
Shaymin-Sky
Sneasler
Solgaleo
Spectrier
Ursaluna
Urshifu
Weavile
Zacian
Zacian-Crowned
Zamazenta-Crowned
Zekrom

Moves

Acupressure*
Baton Pass*
Belly Drum
Ceaseless Edge
Clangorous Soul
Dire Claw
Extreme Speed
Fillet Away
Glacial Lance
Glare
Last Respects*
Lumina Crash
Rage Fist
Revival Blessing
Salt Cure
Shed Tail*
Shell Smash
Shift Gear
Surging Strikes
Tail Glow
Triple Arrows

• Anything annotated with an asterisk is banned outright, meaning even Pokémon that natively have access cannot use them.

Abilities

Arena Trap
Moody
Shadow Tag

Items

Damp Rock
Heat Rock
King's Rock
Light Clay
Razor Fang

Watchlist:

Watchlist

Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Typhlosion-Hisui
Volcanion

Torch Song

One of the most significant benefits to this meta is that many Pokémon with less-than-stellar movepools get an opportunity to shine.

All Pokémon that start with S get access to all but one of the hazards (Toxic Spikes), Salt Cure, Scald, Soft-Boiled/Shore Up/Slack Off, Strength Sap, Substitute, Swords Dance, and, frankly, an entire suite of incredible moves.

Beyond S, the big winners are:
• R: Rapid Spin, Recover, etc.
• T: Taunt, Teleport, Toxic Spikes, Trick, Trick Room, etc.

With honorable mentions to:
• C: Calm Mind, Ceaseless Edge, Court Change, etc.
• D: Diamond Storm, Discharge, Dragon Dance, every other move starting with “Dragon”, etc.
• M: Meteor Mash, Milk Drink, etc.
• P: Parting Shot, Precipice Blades, Pyro Ball, etc.

Some Pokémon that get particularly nice boosts:
• :rotom: Rotom (and forms): Good for all the usual reasons, but now with access to recovery moves and Rapid Spin.
• :toxapex: Toxapex: Mortal Spin and Teleport. Taunt and everything is nice, but those two moves on Pex turn its features up to 11.
• :corviknight: Corviknight: Cotton Guard + Body Press turns this wall into a full-on tank. It also gets Court Change and Rapid Spin.

FAQs/Comments:
• Moves not fully functional on cartridge (Pursuit, for one) cannot be used.
• Nicknames do not alter your access to moves. The names as listed by default in the teambuilder determine your access.

Further Notes:
• A lot of really amazing moves don’t get many opportunities to be used: Quiver Dance, Wish, and Extreme Speed to name a few.
• A lot of letters get almost nothing. J, K, Q (other than Quiver Dance), U (other than U-Turn), X, Y, and Z are all left mostly for dead.
• You can challenge your friends/rivals with functionality now added to PS!

How to use the Alphabet Cup Validation Rule

When using the /challenge command, you can now add @@@ Alphabet Cup Move Legality to the end to have it validate our rules! Currently, there is no option in teambuilder but it still works as though we had it!
Example: open up the chat window for a person and type: /challenge gen9anythinggoes @@@ alphabetcupmovelegality, standard oms, sleep moves clause, -arceus, -calyrexice, -calyrexshadow, -dialga, -dialgaorigin, -eternatus, -fluttermane, -giratina, -giratinaorigin, -groudon, -koraidon, -kyogre, -magearna, -magearnaoriginal, -mewtwo, -miraidon, -palafin, -palkia, -palkiaorigin, -rayquaza, -weavile, -zacian, -zaciancrowned, -zamazenta, -zamazentacrowned, -acupressure, -batonpass, -lastrespects, *bellydrum, *filletaway, *glaciallance, *ragefist, *revivalblessing, *shedtail, *shellsmash, *shiftgear, *surgingstrikes, -arenatrap, -moody, -shadow tag
This will challenge someone to Anything Goes with the standard set of clauses (Sleep Moves Clause, etc.), but it will tell you if one of your sets is using a move with a letter it doesn't have access to. We hope to make things even more user-friendly soon!

We hope everyone likes this format and we look forward to seeing the creative sets that will arise!

-----------------

Approved by UT and in the hills

Click to collapse...

Sinistcha is honestly a good A- or B+ mon. Having access to both S (one of the best letters in the metagame) and P moves, helps it get more chances to fight against both its weaknesses with Scorching Sands, Sparkling Aria, and Psychic/Psyshock, and give it just enough leg room to answer its many
checks and bulkier foes.

Mamoswine is also another great P user who is also granted with M and S moves to expand its physical offensive prowess. Magical Torque and Mach Punch helps it to combat Fighting- and Steel-type threats, and pick off weakened foes. Sacred Sword is a GREAT breaking move, and, in tandem with Solar Blade, can punish pesky Water-types like Dondozo, Primarina and Ogerpon-W. Pain Split, Psycho Cut, and Poison Jab can help deal with checks too. Since Mamo has the ability to answer all its type weaknesses, I do think it’s good for B+ or A- also, even though it’s rather poor defenses leave me wondering if B- might be a better scoring for it.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

Mamoswine is also another great P user who is also granted with M and S moves to expand its physical offensive prowess.

Click to collapse...

Mamoswine is banned.

 

[RodentTamer]

well my stance still stands on Sinistcha. it has the bulk and the coverage now.

 

[Giagantic]

Eli I edited in a small up to date listing of the move restrictions and bans in the opening post, it is out of place but a team thought something was free as it was missing on it. You can choose to do what you want with the information under moves. I didn't check if your mons list was up to date so best check that as well.

EDIT: NOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS WAS MY 1,000th POST I WAS SAVING THIS FOR SOMETHING DAMNIT!

 

[RodentTamer]

Eli I edited in a small up to date listing of the move restrictions and bans in the opening post, it is out of place but a team thought something was free as it was missing on it. You can choose to do what you want with the information under moves. I didn't check if your mons list was up to date so best check that as well.

EDIT: NOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS WAS MY 1,000th POST I WAS SAVING THIS FOR SOMETHING DAMNIT!

Click to collapse...

well that’s just unfortunate…. battle me as compensation

 

[aeiou]

EDIT: NOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS WAS MY 1,000th POST I WAS SAVING THIS FOR SOMETHING DAMNIT!

Click to collapse...

is this a gholdengo situation

 

[Cuddly]

a viability ranking AND a big list of good moves to use, sorted by letter (under the vr), thanks InkyDarkBird

Viability Ranking

S Rank

Goodra-Hisui

Toxapex

A+ Rank

Cinderace

Corviknight

Enamorus

Ogeron-Hearthflame

Primarina

A Rank

Blissey

Conkeldurr

Gholdengo

Rillaboom

Salamence

Samurott-Hisui

Ting-Lu

A- Rank

Excadrill

Gliscor

Greninja

Hatterene

Jolteon

Ogerpon-Wellspring

Raging Bolt

Scizor

Slaking

Swampert

Thundurus-Therian

Typhlosion-Hisui

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike

Volcanion

B+ Rank

Bisharp

Ceruledge

Darkrai

Garchomp

Iron Moth

Iron Valiant

Landorus-Therian

Metagross

Pelipper

Polteageist

Scream Tail

Skeledirge

Slowking-Galar

Toucannon

Walking Wake

B Rank

Clodsire

Deoxys-Speed

Dragalge

Hydrapple

Hydreigon

Iron Crown

Iron Treads

Kommo-o

Krookodile

Kyurem

Moltres

Mudsdale

Pecharunt

Pincurchin

Quagsire

Raichu-Alola

Sandy Shocks

Serperior

Terapagos

Thundurus

Torkoal

Zamazenta

B- Rank

Alomomola

Araquanid

Breloom

Clefable

Ditto

Flapple

Garganacl

Meloetta

Necrozma

Tauros-Paldea-Aqua

Weezing-Galar

A to M

A: Axe Kick, Astral Barrage, Armor Cannon, Aeroblast, Attack Order, Aqua Step, Alluring Voice, Apple Acid, Aura Sphere, Aqua Jet, Accelerock, Acid Spray, Acid Armor, Amnesia

B: Boomburst, Bolt Strike, Blue Flare, Brave Bird, Blizzard, Behemoth Blade/Bash, Beak Blast, Bleakwind Storm, Bitter Blade, Body Press, Blazing Torque, Brick Break, Bitter Malice, Barb Barrage, Bullet Punch, Bullet Seed, Bone Rush, Bind, Beat Up, Bulk Up, Block, Burning Bulwark, Baneful Bunker

C: Counter, Comeuppance, Close Combat, Clanging Scales, Collision Course, Combat Torque, Crabhammer, Crunch, Circle Throw, Clear Smog, Chilling Water, Copycat, Coil, Cotton Guard, Calm Mind, Cosmic Power, Curse, Chilly Reception, Court Change, Corrosive Gas

D: Dragon Energy, Doom Desire, Draco Meteor, Double Shock, Dragon Ascent, Dynamax Cannon, Diamond Storm, Darkest Lariat, Drill Run, Drill Peck, Drum Beating, Dark Pulse, Discharge, Dazzling Gleam, Dragon Tail, Dragon Darts, Dual Wingbeat, Dragon Dance, Defend Order, Defog, Disable, Destiny Bond

E: Eruption, Electro Shot, Electro Drift, Earthquake, Earth Power, Esper Wing, Expanding Force, Eerie Spell, Endeavor, Encore

F: Final Gambit, Fleur Cannon, Flare Blitz, Focus Blast, Future Sight, Fire Blast, Fusion Bolt, Flying Press, Fusion Flare, Foul Play, First Impression, Fiery Wrath, False Surrender, Fire Lash, Fiery Dance, Fickle Beam, Flash Cannon, Flower Trick, Freeze-Dry, Flip Turn, Frost Breath, Fell Stinger, Flame Charge, Fire Spin, Focus Energy

G: Gigaton Hammer, Gyro Ball, Glaive Rush, Gunk Shot, Grav Apple, Grass Knot, Giga Drain, Growth

H: Head Smash, High Jump Kick, Headlong Rush, Heavy Slam, Heat Crash, Hydro Pump, Hurricane, Hard Press, Hammer Arm, Hyper Drill, Heat Wave, Hydro Steam, Horn Leech, Hone Claws, Heart Swap, Haze, Heal Bell, Healing Wish

I: Ice Hammer, Ivy Cudgel, Ice Beam, Icicle Crash, Ice Spinner, Iron Head, Infernal Parade, Ice Shard, Icicle Spear, Infestation, Iron Defense

J: Judgment, Jaw Lock, Jet Punch, Jungle Healing

K: Knock Off

L: Leaf Storm, Low Kick, Luster Purge, Leaf Blade, Liquidation, Leech Life, Lunge, Lava Plume, Leech Seed, Lunar Blessing

M: Mirror Coat, Metal Burst, Megahorn, Make It Rain, Meteor Beam, Mountain Gale, Malignant Chain, Magical Torque, Magma Storm, Moongeist Beam, Mighty Cleave, Mist Ball, Moonblast, Meteor Mash, Matcha Gotcha, Mystical Power, Mach Punch, Mortal Spin, Moonlight, Morning Sun, Milk Drink, Mean Look

N to Z

N: Noxious Torque, Night Daze, Night Slash, Nuzzle, Night Shade, No Retreat, Nasty Plot

O: Overheat, Origin Pulse, Overdrive

P: Psycho Boost, Precipice Blades, Power Whip, Pyro Ball, Poltergeist, Photon Geyser, Psystrike, Petal Blizzard, Play Rough, Psychic Fangs, Poison Jab, Power Gem, Psychic Noise, Psyshield Bash, Parabolic Charge, Poison Fang, Pin Missile, Population Bomb, Power Trip, Parting Shot, Perish Song

Q: Quiver Dance

R: Revelation Dance, Razor Shell, Rock Slide, Rising Voltage, Rapid Spin, Rock Blast, Ruination, Roost, Recover, Roar

S: Solar Blade, Shadow Force, Superpower, Solar Beam, Seed Flare, Steam Eruption, Sacred Fire, Sunsteel Strike, Supercell Slam, Spacial Rend, Springtide Storm, Sandsear Storm, Sacred Sword, Sludge Wave/Bomb, Shell Side Arm, Strange Steam, Secret Sword, Seed Bomb, Shadow Ball, Scald, Snipe Shot, Spirit Shackle, Spirit Break, Stomping Tantrum, Sucker Punch, Scorching Sands, Stone Axe, Shadow Sneak, Sand Tomb, Scale Shot, Stored Power, Super Fang, Seismic Toss, Spikes, Spiky Shield, Sticky Web, Swords Dance, Strength Sap, Shore Up, Synthesis, Stun Spore, Switcheroo

T: Thunder, Thunderous Kick, Thunderbolt, Throat Chop, Thunder Cage, Torch Song, Thunder Punch, Temper Flare, Trop Kick, Thunderclap, Trailblaze, Tachyon Cutter, Twin Beam, Triple Axel, Toxic Spikes, Take Heart, Tidy Up, Topsy-Turvy, Taunt, Trick, Teleport, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Transform

U: U-turn, Upper Hand

V: V-create, Volt Tackle, Volt Switch, Vacuum Wave, Victory Dance

W: Water Spout, Wood Hammer, Wave Crash, Wildbolt Storm, Wild Charge, Waterfall, Wicked Blow, Weather Ball, Whirlpool, Water Shuriken, Wish, Whirlwind, Will-O-Wisp

X: X-Scissor

Y: nothing (Yawn is banned by Sleep Moves Clause)

Z: Zing Zap, Zen Headbutt

Click to collapse...

Kowtow Cleave should be added to K as it is a Slicing move that :Gallade: and :Kleavor: get.

Edit: Also Wicked Torque and Relic Song should/shouldn’t be on here.
They should since they are decent moves and Wicked Torque getting snubbed when Whirlpool is mentioned here.
And they shouldn’t because they really shouldn’t be legal to begin with. Especially Wicked Torque.
Sleep moves are banned because Sleep is an uncompetitive mechanic that relies mostly on luck to gain a random amount of free turns. And these moves, while having very niche alternate use cases, are pretty much only going to be used to fish for Sleep.
There is some other RNG bullshit in Pokemon that if were removed, the games would be 100% better, like Freeze or Flinching. Most of those things get a pass since you’d need to ban moves that people normally use without giving their secondary effects a second thought.
Wicked Torque however is almost strictly worse than Wicked Blow if it weren’t for PP and Sleep (and technically its Encore immunity and anti-crit abilities, but those are so minor they really shouldn’t count). Pokemon like Wo-Chien have options like Knock Off as well.
Relic Song arguably being worse since almost all relevant R Pokemon get Hyper Voice anyways. It’s one use being on its original user to swap to its Fighting form.

 

[dehzao]

Voted for Alphabet Cup and I'm glad it is currently on the ladder spotlight.

That being said, could the council please ask the devs to make all moves with the first letter of the Pokemon appear in the moveset selection? It is good to explore your move options, like it happens with STABMons.

Currently, Moonblast, that starts with M shows as illegal to Meloetta. I know it would be allowed to use, but it would be better if we have the list of the available moves we can use with that letter.

 

[RodentTamer]

Voted for Alphabet Cup and I'm glad it is currently on the ladder spotlight.

That being said, could the council please ask the devs to make all moves with the first letter of the Pokemon appear in the moveset selection? It is good to explore your move options, like it happens with STABMons.

View attachment 820469

Currently, Moonblast, that starts with M shows as illegal to Meloetta. I know it would be allowed to use, but it would be better if we have the list of the available moves we can use with that letter.

Click to collapse...

It should still allow you to use the move. All you have to do is check if the team is valid and it should tell you that it is legal. Moonblast isn’t banned

 

[dehzao]

It should still allow you to use the move. All you have to do is check if the team is valid and it should tell you that it is legal. Moonblast isn’t banned

Click to collapse...

I know, I wrote that two times in the original reply. The suggestion was regarding the UX/UI of the teambuilding experience. Right now, I have to check the available moves with each letter somewhere else and then put it on the Pokemon.

 

[ShadowFlarez]

Glad to see that ABC (A Balanced Cothermetagame) Cup is back in business this month. Can't wait to have Electric Seed Primarina surviving attacks it has no right to be surviving for another month on ladder

 

[Eli]

hi Gamers i've been Sick with the Flu but i am Back. we have a fan favorite thing: survey.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScrxR8V3T6yk6ntN82Bx2qAL1mRpZrGPZNdrKdSkrcRUyeaXw/viewform
i think this will let you do the survey ... now get to it. we will have it open for FOUR (4) days for all your responses

 

[RodentTamer]

Toxapex @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Tera Type: Steel
Calm Nature
- Toxic / Surf / Thunder Wave
- Recover / Strength Sap
- Haze / Topsy-Turvy
- Mortal Spin

I really hate this thing with a burning passion because of how annoying it is, but it’s irritating presence is what makes it so good in this OM given how it has access to one of the best letters in it. M giving it access to Mortal Spin to ensure hazard removal with a plus really helps it stand out a lot more. Topsy-Turvy can be a pain in the long run too.

 

[InkyDarkBird]

The survey results are out.

Even though everyone is clearly burned out by Generation 9 lasting for this long, it seems that this metagame is still good, with averages of 7.125 and 7.625 for competitiveness and enjoyment.

Sceptile 2.0 only got an average of 3.875.

Polteageist only got an average of 3.625.

Volcanion is definitely the most divisive Pokemon, having an average of 5, but a standard deviation of 2.673.

Since nobody thought Typhlosion-Hisui was broken on the last survey, Torch Song is now surveyed again, and the results are still all over the place with an average of 5.625 and a standard deviation of 2.925.

V-create got an average of 4.75.

Burning Bulwark got an average of 6.125 and a standard deviation of 2.9, which is the highest so far.

Write-ins for action:
2 Ogerpon-Hearthflames
1 Revival Blessing
1 Victory Dance
1 Stone Axe

Write-ins for unbans/unrestrictions:
1 Mamoswine
1 Lugia
1 Eternatus
1 Sceptile

 

[InkyDarkBird]

:pmd/gouging-fire:
Burning Bulwark is restricted!​

	Elly	InkyDarkBird	BandedBodyPress
Burning Bulwark	RESTRICT	RESTRICT	RESTRICT

Burning Bulwark is restricted for being too unpredictable and punishing physical attackers far too easily from attacking the opponent. The most obvious offender of this is Primarina, one of the key threats in this meta that demands being attacked in order to avoid being Boombursted, but there are also nicher uses such as Blissey and Bellibolt.

 

[cat111ca]

New here. Why isn't slaking higher. And why are weavile, Mamoswine Meowscarada, Sceptile and Kingambit banned?

 

[Discordual]

New here. Why isn't slaking higher. And why are weavile, Mamoswine Meowscarada, Sceptile and Kingambit banned?

Click to collapse...

Slaking is overly dependant on skill swap, which is unreliable with how predictable it is. Mamoswine and Meowscarada are strong, and have incredibly diverse options (Especially Meow with high speed + protean) which made them very strong *and* unpredictable. Sceptile was too strong with unburden + torch song + throat spray allowing it to run away with games, especially with powerful options to compliment like Steam Eruption, Spacial Rend, and Seed Flare , and Kingambit is just Kingambit with extra, stronger moves (Like Knock off, Bullet punch, Behemoth Bash/Blade, even nicher options like Pyro Ball)

 

[InkyDarkBird]

New here. Why isn't slaking higher. And why are weavile, Mamoswine Meowscarada, Sceptile and Kingambit banned?

Click to collapse...

Weavile is also banned because of Wicked Blow. Since Victreebel, Wyrdeer, Wugtrio, and Wo-Chien (yes I know these Pokemon are not used at all but they can all theoretically be somewhat viable) are not broken with Wicked Blow, Weavile was banned.

 

[ShadowFlarez]

Know I'm more than a bit late, but I noticed that evasion was left legal and Showdown's teambuilder also clears evasion abilities as legal (wasn't able to get any replays of it during the month ABC Cup was available because of ladder being dead.) Is this intentional or just an oversight everyone somehow missed?

 

[InkyDarkBird]

What is the community’s opinion on Torch Song? The first time we conducted a survey, it received a score of around 6.4, yet when we surveyed an abuser (Typhlosion-Hisui), hardly anyone thought it was banworthy. There are other abusers too, such as banned Sceptile with Unburden and Throat Spray, regular Thundurus that has a plethora of options to run (mixed, full special, full physical, utility), Thundurus-Therian, and Toxtricity. Is Torch Song still somewhat broken for the metagame?

Furthermore, the Gliscor-Toxapex core is insanely strong, requiring Pokemon to have both Electric and Ice moves to beat, which is still very restricting, as Triple Axel can get destroyed by a misplay into Rocky Helmet, all the regular Ice moves are mostly locked behind the future paradox Pokemon (who are mostly special too, but Iron Hands is decent), and Mountain Gale’s primary abuser (Mamoswine) is banned. Is this problematic?

 

[Psychomaniac14]

I think Torch Song is worth looking in to, but though I think the Gliscor-Toxapex concern is valid I don't think it's at the level of being problematic (tho maybe that's just cuz I use Jolteon that can seriously damage both with Electro Drift/Shot and Icicle Plate Judgment)

 

[ShadowFlarez]

What is the community’s opinion on Torch Song? The first time we conducted a survey, it received a score of around 6.4, yet when we surveyed an abuser (Typhlosion-Hisui), hardly anyone thought it was banworthy.

Click to collapse...

I'm personally of the idea that Torch Song is in a similar situation to SV UU Latios where it's a bit of a necessary evil for the meta to be fine the way it is right now. I do find it a bit obnoxious since a ton of mons do get access to it and it gives them newfound/improved sweeping ability especially in tandem with Thunderclap, but I've never really found it truly overbearing to deal with on the mons that I have seen utilize them.

Know I'm more than a bit late, but I noticed that evasion was left legal and Showdown's teambuilder also clears evasion abilities as legal (wasn't able to get any replays of it during the month ABC Cup was available because of ladder being dead.) Is this intentional or just an oversight everyone somehow missed?

Click to collapse...

also have to bump this to make sure this doesn't potentially become an issue for the tier later, this stuff still validates as of posting. i personally have yet to see teams that actually abuse this but i feel like this more chalks up to people being more distracted with actually engaging with the meta's gimmick than anything else.

 

[Roller K]

Mence HStack BO
:salamence::primarina::ting-lu::gholdengo::serperior::cinderace:

After breaking 1400s and Top 10 on ladder, I wanted to share this team!
This is a pretty straightforward hazard-stack bulky offense starring Salamence as the main breaker.
https://pokepast.es/95afa9d5e1051f55

Alphabet Cup Features
Each Pokemon gains access to all moves starting with the letter:
1. Salamence: B, S
2. Primarina: B, P
3. Ting-Lu: T
4. Gholdengo: G
5. Serperior: S
6. Cinderace: S, R, C

Sets
:life-orb::salamence::life-orb:
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 120 HP / 136 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Bitter Blade
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

A few days ago, I faced someone using this Salamence set and was shocked at how much damage it was dishing out. While it shows up as A-tier in the VR, I rarely encounter it on the ladder, and I knew I wanted to build around this Salamence set. Life Orb + Brave Bird hits just as hard as Mega Salamence's Double-Edge, and teams generally aren't well-equipped to handle Flying coverage. Bitter Blade synergizes perfectly with Brave Bird and Life Orb, as you can heal off the recoil damage while hitting Steels super-effectively and Electrics neutrally. Dragon Dance allows Salamence to fix its middling speed and take advantage of switches. Dragon Dance + Moxie can snowball out of control very quickly, requiring careful play from the opponent. Roost is a flexible move slot, but I appreciate its ability to preserve Salamence's HP and allow it to survive longer in some games. If you want to go fully offensive, Earthquake helps into Hisuian Goodra, while Scale Shot is a new move that enables sweeping with Moxie + speed boosts. The spread and nature allow for enough speed, enough strength, and some bulk which can come in handy. Salamence is amazing, and in most games, it can trade 2 for 1 or stop a potential sweep by living a hit and taking the opponent down with Brave Bird.

:assault-vest::primarina::assault-vest:
Primarina @ Assault Vest
Ability: Liquid Voice
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Moonblast
- Psystrike
- Flip Turn

Primarina is arguably one of the strongest Pokemon right now, and it complements Salamence so well. It resists Ice and Dragon attacks that threaten Salamence, and Salamence resists the Grass moves that threaten Primarina. Salamence is a physical breaker, while Primarina is a special breaker. Liquid Voice Boomburst is borderline oppressive, and teams that don't run standard defensive Pokemon like Hisuian Goodra and Toxapex will struggle greatly. Psystrike is mandatory for Toxapex, though it is a nice option into Calm Mind users and physically frail checks (e.g. Water Absorb Clodsire). While the item and last move are flexible, I prefer Flip Turn + Assault Vest on this team; you want the slow pivot into Salamence and other frail teammates, you get to keep up momentum, and AV lets Primarina trade positively into most special attackers, including opposing Primarina. On that note, the spread has 16 Speed EVs to outspeed max bulk Primarina while staying a bulky yet powerful attacker. There's no real reason for teams not to run Primarina, as it does so much for most team structures.

:leftovers::ting-lu::leftovers:
Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Vessel of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Ruination
- Earthquake
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

Ting-Lu is Ting-Lu. Not much more needs to be said. It is the most reliable Ground-type in the tier, an amazing Spiker, a great defensive wall, a phazing option, and racks up damage with Ruination. Primarina + Ting-Lu + Steel has proven its strength as a BO core for years now, and it is no exception in this tier. While it gains some interesting moves like Toxic Spikes / Tidy Up / Teleport / Toxic / Thunder Wave, I feel its standard moves are the most optimal for my team.

:air-balloon::gholdengo::air-balloon:
Gholdengo @ Air Balloon
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Make It Rain
- Hex
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

Similarly, Gholdengo is Gholdengo. I believe it is underused currently, as despite being A-tier in the VR, I don't see it show up often. Just as there are more options for hazard setters, there are more options for hazard removal, and in some games, it is imperative to keep hazards up. Gholdengo is well-known for blocking both Rapid Spin and Defog, but it also blocks Mortal Spin, making it by far the premier spinblocker in the tier. Its Steel typing is also imperative to resist Freeze-Dry and Fairy moves. Unfortunately, Gholdengo gains no useful new moves, but its natural moves are enough to still be effective. Stall is rare in the tier given the bias toward strong offensive threats, and the rest of the team breaks stall well enough, so I was fine letting the Gholdengo set be weak into stall. Alternatively, the team is bulky and strong, but it is relatively slow with no priority, so Thunder Wave helps in keeping speed-boosting sweepers in check. While Gholdengo cannot stop Court Change and Tidy Up, those moves mean you're at least on equal footing with hazards. The defensive investment helps Gholdengo's longevity and ability to keep hazards up. Lu + Ghold has existed for years, and the core is impressive here too. Gholdengo is even more valuable on hstack teams in Alphabet Cup than in OU, so I encourage you to try it.

:leftovers::serperior::leftovers:
Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 40 HP / 108 SpA / 108 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Superpower
- Stored Power
- Strength Sap

Serperior is admittedly a bit unserious, but in some games it carried me, and it's a fun set that makes the most of the tier's mechanic. Superpower can catch people off guard, and it's a particularly good lure into Hisuian Goodra and Blissey. The extra bulk is appreciated, and with Strength Sap, it can be difficult for physical attackers to take down Serperior. Stored Power makes the most of the extra boosts from both moves, and it's fun to click. It also helps to not be PP-stalled, since Leaf Storm and Superpower only have 8 PP, and something like Corviknight can be obnoxious otherwise. I would say that Glare is more optimal, but just Leaf Storm + Superpower are a bit weak on their own, and without Superpower, there's no real reason to run Serperior. Its role is to exhaust defensive options they have so your other teammates can be more oppressive, and the Grass typing is great defensively. The spread is weird, so I'll explain my logic. You want every stat as high as possible, but Superpower is used more for its boosts than as an offensive move in many games, so Timid was a compromise I was willing to make. Some special attack is needed so Serperior isn't too passive. Normally you'd want the rest of the bulk in HP, but Strength Sap heals based on the target's attack stat rather than a flat rate, so you get more healing by having less HP, and it felt more valuable to have Special Defense investment since you aren't boosting it like you are your Defense. Serperior is not a superb Pokemon, but it's a fun one.

:heavy-duty-boots::cinderace::heavy-duty-boots:
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- Stone Axe
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn

Cinderace is another glue piece for the team and is solid in its own right. Serperior as a top speed for the team is not good, and Cinderace is high enough speed while also having access to a plethora of new moves and being a great Fire type. I needed Stealth Rock and removal for just my side of the field, and Cinderace has access to both those in Stone Axe and Rapid Spin. Since Ghosts aren't too common and tend not to switch into Cinderace, plus with its high speed, it is usually able to get off the Rapid Spin in a pinch. Similarly, Stone Axe is pretty easy to click in a lot of cases, and it's not too weak with Libero. Pyro Ball is reliable, and U-turn keeps up momentum for the team.

Conclusion
While I am confident in the team and have performed well with it, I am sure that it can be further optimized. For example, this team does not have Knock Off, so boots spam that can handle the team's breakers should win in theory. However, most teams cannot handle our breakers, and the climb to Top 10 was smooth due to the team's offensive pressure, defensive backbone, and intuitiveness to pilot. With the proper support, Salamence can break the fattest of teams and be a threatening sweeper at the same time. Feel free to test it out on the ladder, and let me know if you have any comments or suggestions.

:salamence: Enjoy! :salamence:​