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Amoonguss
- Thread starter Don Honchkrorleone
- Start date
yup, although it still works with one with effect spore that i have.
none of the gen 5 pokemon have their DW abilities save Darmanitan and Musharna
Effect Spore is very situational though, it could maybe get you a lucky paralysis from a contact move. Other then that, it isn't too useful, and paralysis isn't all that important to Amoonguss at all, but it could be for faster Pokemon. Regeneration would help greatly when it comes out, making Amoonguss that much better, but even with Effect Spore, it is still a good support Pokemon.
I dont see the value of HP ice. I mean your still stopped by steels and fires which are much more common in OU then grass types. In UU maybe though. I still wouldnt use another attacking move on Amoongus unless it has a key side effect. Amoongus just has too bad of an attacking stat.
Besides, Clear Smog, I could see Acid Spray worki- It doesnt get Acid Spray!? Its a giant poisonous mushroom! how can an electric eel spray acid but a poisonous mushroom cant!? Well, Thats all it can do. It doesnt have any good move options besides: Stun Spore, Spore, Toxic, Giga Drain and Clear Smog (Synthesis in less weather oriented metagames). I still stick to Clear Smog and Giga drain for attacking; HP ice only hits dragons which use him for set up fodder (not that Amoongus should be staying in on them) meaning Clear Smog seems superior.
Besides, Clear Smog, I could see Acid Spray worki- It doesnt get Acid Spray!? Its a giant poisonous mushroom! how can an electric eel spray acid but a poisonous mushroom cant!? Well, Thats all it can do. It doesnt have any good move options besides: Stun Spore, Spore, Toxic, Giga Drain and Clear Smog (Synthesis in less weather oriented metagames). I still stick to Clear Smog and Giga drain for attacking; HP ice only hits dragons which use him for set up fodder (not that Amoongus should be staying in on them) meaning Clear Smog seems superior.
Hp Ice, just like Hp Fire, is more or less there to prevent Amoongus from becoming set-up bait for certain sweepers. Neither Hp Fire nor Giga Drain is doing jack to the likes of Dnite or Salamence (or Altaria, if we look towards lower tiers), and although you can always look optimistically to Clear Smog to be your solve-all, Amoongus can't exactly take Fire Blasts/Fire Punchs all day. Thus, at least in OU play, Hp Ice is quite viable.
Overall though, Amoongus is quite a fun poke to play around with. He has some impressive bulk which allows him to check quite a few threats on both ends of the spectrum, with that useful and undermined typing that allows him to both come in on Leech Seed and absorb TSpikes without consequence. His somewhat limited movepool is somewhat regrettable, and the fact that Regenerator is currently unreleased has been gnawing at me for some time now :/ However, for what he does, he does it well enough to make a name for himself. Double Powder seems to be his best set imo, as it essentially always cripples at least two pokes. Synthesis is amazing, plain and simple. That, coupled by Spore and his monster bulk makes him my favorite Tspike absorber in RU. If only he got Leech Seed :P Wishful thinking, but one can always dream...
Overall though, Amoongus is quite a fun poke to play around with. He has some impressive bulk which allows him to check quite a few threats on both ends of the spectrum, with that useful and undermined typing that allows him to both come in on Leech Seed and absorb TSpikes without consequence. His somewhat limited movepool is somewhat regrettable, and the fact that Regenerator is currently unreleased has been gnawing at me for some time now :/ However, for what he does, he does it well enough to make a name for himself. Double Powder seems to be his best set imo, as it essentially always cripples at least two pokes. Synthesis is amazing, plain and simple. That, coupled by Spore and his monster bulk makes him my favorite Tspike absorber in RU. If only he got Leech Seed :P Wishful thinking, but one can always dream...
Standard Bulky Dragon Dance Dragonite with 252 Hp doesnt even come close to being kiilled by uninvested Amoonguss' Hp Ice even after a hit from Stealth Rock. It would take lots of special attack investment to kill Dragonite to the point where it wouldnt be very bulky. With Hp Ice it also becomes set up fodder for Celebi, Latias etc. What I was trying to say was that Amoongus shouldnt be staying in on Dragons period. And not counting dragons Clear Smog and Giga Drain hits everything Ice hits besides flying types which Amoongus shouldnt stay in on either. Clear Smog is also onyl 10 points weaker than Hp Ice factoring in Stab and stopping things like Celebi without Psychic and a Shell Smash Cloyster makes it superior.
(Yay! 100th maybe my mom will love me now!)
(Yay! 100th maybe my mom will love me now!)
The point isn't to try to KO Dnite so much as to scare it off, or at least allow for a safe switch whilst he Roosts off the damage. An Hp Ice from an uninvested Amoongus deals 46.9-55.2% to a 252 Hp Dnite w/Multiscale broken. Though it certainly isn't a failsafe method of beating him, it does more or less force the Roost, meaning you can safely Spore/Stun Spore him or switch into a appropriate countermeasure poke. Thus, though not the preferred option, Amoongus can ward of Dnite if need be.
What confuses me is why you would think you would be trying to stop Celebis and Cloysters with it :/ In fact, Celebi seems to be an ideal switch-in to Amoongus. Natural Cure means that it can safely jump into any Status move to absorb it and switch out, it resists Giga Drain and can easily TWave him and/or proceed to spam Psychics/Hp Fires/Hp Ices. As for Cloyster, even without a Shell Smash an Icicle Spear deals 76.2-89.6% to the most physically bulky Amoongus you can get, dealing 105.8-124.3% to the specially bulky set (those calcs not factoring LO). So unless you run max Hp and Defense, keep enough hazards off the field and can somehow Memento the Cloyster (or find some other way of switching in on it without it attacking you or setting up), then Amoongus isn't really going to help against Cloyster.
What confuses me is why you would think you would be trying to stop Celebis and Cloysters with it :/ In fact, Celebi seems to be an ideal switch-in to Amoongus. Natural Cure means that it can safely jump into any Status move to absorb it and switch out, it resists Giga Drain and can easily TWave him and/or proceed to spam Psychics/Hp Fires/Hp Ices. As for Cloyster, even without a Shell Smash an Icicle Spear deals 76.2-89.6% to the most physically bulky Amoongus you can get, dealing 105.8-124.3% to the specially bulky set (those calcs not factoring LO). So unless you run max Hp and Defense, keep enough hazards off the field and can somehow Memento the Cloyster (or find some other way of switching in on it without it attacking you or setting up), then Amoongus isn't really going to help against Cloyster.
Well it was more of an example to illustrate HP ice is more situational than Clear Smog. Adamant max attack fire punch from Dragonite does 372-438 points of damage to specially bulky Amoongus out of 432 Hp. Im also pretty sure Outrage does more to Amoongus (120x1.5=160>75x2=150). Even if Outrage/ Fire Punch doesnt kill HP Ice wont kill either so youll be forced out. In summary, beating Dragonite requires Dragonite to run a bulky set and Amoonguss is in no situation to try and scout.
Even assuming Amoongus can beat Dragonite and Salamence thats basically it for HP ice's effectiveness except if you consider doing 25% of health to a Hydreigon/ Lati@s/ Celebi than being 2HKO'd effective.
Even assuming Amoongus can beat Dragonite and Salamence thats basically it for HP ice's effectiveness except if you consider doing 25% of health to a Hydreigon/ Lati@s/ Celebi than being 2HKO'd effective.
I feel that if anything you're the one being situational here :/ Both Hp Ice, Hp Fire and Clear Smog are all used to counteract certain threats, I'm not saying anything more than that. Inevitably there will be pokes that Amoongus can simply not handle, that's what other pokes are for. For instance, if you need to hit Scizor, run Hp Fire. If you need a jump on 'Mence, run Hp Ice. You seem to think that Amoongus is supposed to be tearing through pokes, and that simply isn't his place. Clear Smog, Hp Fire or Ice, all of these are simply to prevent him from becoming set-up bait, maybe to net a surprise KO on a predicted switch. Amoongus has modest offensive stats, and his main role on your team should reflect as such. Consequently, just ignoring the viability of such an option is a tad short-sighted, no?
Also, minor nitpicks to calm my OCD, Bulky DDnite usually runs Adamant w/48 Atk EVs, in addition to often running Dragon Claw over Outrage to avoid the unsavory lock-in effect. Thus a max attack Adamant Dnite would likely be a CB set, which is an entirely different beast to deal with. Also, 120x1.5=180, not 160. And on a side note, Hp Ice off an uninvested Amoongus nets a 2HKO on both Gliscor and Landorus where Giga Drain hits around a 3 or 4HKO, so it does have some use there. Either way, I can see your point here, and I respect that, I just want to present another point of view.
Also, minor nitpicks to calm my OCD, Bulky DDnite usually runs Adamant w/48 Atk EVs, in addition to often running Dragon Claw over Outrage to avoid the unsavory lock-in effect. Thus a max attack Adamant Dnite would likely be a CB set, which is an entirely different beast to deal with. Also, 120x1.5=180, not 160. And on a side note, Hp Ice off an uninvested Amoongus nets a 2HKO on both Gliscor and Landorus where Giga Drain hits around a 3 or 4HKO, so it does have some use there. Either way, I can see your point here, and I respect that, I just want to present another point of view.
Oh, I completely understand that all are situational. I was simply pointing out that Clear Smog seems to be the best in most situations as Amoongus shouldnt be staying in on most things HP Ice/Fire hits. Thinking you should stay in on a predicted Dragonite switch or staying in once a Dragonite is safely in seems to be more short sighted, in my opinion of course.
To calm MY OCD, I would like to point out that I was referring to the offensive Dragon Dance set that uses max attack and sometimes uses Outrage. Although, I can't believe I wrote 160; I really should proofread more often.
On the note of Amoongus vs. Breloom: They serve entirely different roles. One offensive one defensive. Its hard to compare one to the other.
To calm MY OCD, I would like to point out that I was referring to the offensive Dragon Dance set that uses max attack and sometimes uses Outrage. Although, I can't believe I wrote 160; I really should proofread more often.
On the note of Amoongus vs. Breloom: They serve entirely different roles. One offensive one defensive. Its hard to compare one to the other.
I don't agree with that. I mean it can be bulky. All Looms invest in HP over speed I believe but they can't effectively wall things with 60/80/60 defenses even with Poison Heal. Its also outclassed as a bulky grass type by like everything as all fighting resistances also come with steel so Ferrothorn does that better. I suppose you could argue the Spore and Poison Heal niche but I would personally prefer the better stats, better typing and better utility of Ferrothorn or basically all bulky grass types over then extra 6% of health
The whole point of this thing is to be a sleep inducer who doesn't slowly die over the course of the fight....well when he gets the DW ability. As of now he's pretty inferior to other Sporers. Send him out, Spore, withdraw him from battle and he'll heal up.
While that is true, it involves investing a lot in defence and HP where Virizion would then completely outclass it as well as almost all Excadrill counters. If you want to say Breloom can counter sand it is completely outclassed by Virizion with far superior defensive stats. Gliscor and Skarmory can also as counters to not only Excadrill but tons of other physical attackers and each of have their own niche to compare with spore+poison heal Breloom. Yes, defensive Breloom checks Excadrill but Heatmor checks Ferrothorn too; that doesn't mean you should use it.
Why is so many people hating on Amoonguss?
He has a great typing, Grass/Poison. His typing grants immunity against Toxic and absorbs Toxic Spikes, which cripples most walls out there. While his Poison typing makes ground attacks hit neutral, it also shores up the Bug and Poison weakness. He has the highest HP-stat of all grass and poison types and reasonable defenses.
He has a great typing, Grass/Poison. His typing grants immunity against Toxic and absorbs Toxic Spikes, which cripples most walls out there. While his Poison typing makes ground attacks hit neutral, it also shores up the Bug and Poison weakness. He has the highest HP-stat of all grass and poison types and reasonable defenses.