An important and highly benificial question

DeLorean

This is a question that has bugged me for some time now, and I'm trying to figure it out now. It could be potentially game breaking and useful for all team builders and stratigists. I need to know...

What are the most common leads right now?]​

I plan to make the absolute perfect counter lead for my team, and I need to know what to counter. My current counter lead is a scarfed mixken with thunderpunch, hp ice, sky uppercut, and overheat. It hasn't failed me badly yet, and I remain hopeful.

Thanks guise,

-Xaio
 
Either something speedy (Weavile, Scarf'ed Pokemon, etc) or something defensive and supporting (Hippowdon or Swampert with SR, etc). Just my general guessing.
 
You can't...

Swampert
Tyranitar
Weavile
Lucario
Heatran
Heracross
Salamence
Gyarados
Hippowdon
Infernape
Ambipom
Abomasnow
Forretress
Gengar
Jolteon

Have fun finding a single Poke as your great counter.
 
Well, since I was attempting to write a guide, the most common that I've seen are:

Weavile
Gyarados
Swampert
Metagross
Bronzong
Abomasnow / Hippowdon / Tyranitar (In other words, auto-weather users)
Ambipom
Gengar
Jolteon
Yanmega

Scarf versions:
Heatran
Medicham
Heracross

Other decent starters:
Spiritomb (Though I can argue that it's screwed by Gyarados leads)
Crobat
Froslass (Don't be fooled by this thing, it's quite awesome)
Ninjask
Scizor
Gliscor (Usually Baton Pass variant)
Forretress (Shed Shell recommended)
Skarmory (Shed Shell recommended)

Though like many people (including myself) have said before, there is no definition to countering all starters. One is screwed by another, and then there's the "element of surprise" sort of starters, the ones that can throw you off-gaurd.
 
I personally use Weavile or Swampert, since Weavile's just awesome and Swampert can Stealth Rock and wall for a turn or two.

I've seen a lot of Flygons around too, I would assume it's the Scarf variant.

Scarfed Mixken is a pretty good idea. I just hope for your sake they're not running a Scarfed Gyarados (I've seen it happen).
 
I personally use a Choice Scarf Typhlosion, but...

You can't really come up with a counter...because there is so many...I mean, there isn't an individual Pokemon that can counter all the starters at the same time. Your moveset can only have 4 moves in it anyway.
 
@pikachu of doom:
CS metagross pwns.

@Dirtybirdy:
Yeah, and my blaziken can usually deal with hippopowdon with a HP ice, but swampert gives me real trouble. HP grass maybe?

@Dragontamer:
Frosslass is quite capable, it just has an added bundle of weaknesses. Spikes support is good too.

@Yoko Rains:
Of course you are right, I simply aim to make one that counters 70% or so of them.

Scarfed typhlosion? Eruption+STAB+Scarf = pwnage.

@RLan69:
My one JUST outruns a weavile, and I have real trouble with a swampert.

Scarfed flygon I could deal with. Blaziken can take a couple hits.

And I just looked, Gyarados' speed is ONE point higher than mine. -.-;

@Colonel M:
My blaziken can actually hit alot of these with high super-effective or neutral damage. Some of the scarfed varients will cause trouble, but this should be fine for now. Thanks so much!

@Dragon tamer (again):
tru dat

@Aeroblacktyl:
I will! ^^

@Shinryuu:
I can deal with the speedy, but the supportive side is a bit tougher. Esspecialy swampert. >m<

Thanks all for your input, and for the great advice.
 
Jolly Scarf-Cham with Fire Punch isn't a common starter, but counters everything but Hippowdon well. Pair it with HP Ice/Energy Ball Gengar.
 
Shine said:
Frosslass is the only Ghost spiker in the game. Have fun Rapid Spinning that one, assholes!
Click to expand...

I lol'd heartily.

Anyways I'd say it's pretty much impossible to counter every single popular starter. Your absolute best bet is to just use a starter that supports the rest of your team's theme.
 
It seems that a Choice Specs Azelf with Flamethrower, Grass Knot, Psychic, and Shadow Ball could work well. The standard but Specs in place of Life Orb and Shadow Ball in place of Nasty Plot. The problem would be Weavile leads, but with some HP investment you could survive a Pursuit (assuming you stay in of course).
 
Dragontamer said:
I use Froslass myself, but not as a lead. I cannot imagine what it can do that Gengar and Mismagius cannot do.
Click to expand...
Well, as far as Scarf VS Scarf, Froslass gets the same Speed as a Gengar would, boasts STAB Ice Beam, and can use Wake-Up [Bitch] Slap on Weavile starters. That's all otherwise.
 
A great lead IMO is metagross, which has many many resistances as well as montrous attack power. if it can pull off a quick agility, sweeping a team isnt all that hard. CB gross is pretty nasty as well, being able to 2KO weezing as well as gliscor.
 
After trying a bunch of leads (Weavile, AgiliGross, Dusknoir[TR], Deviloom[Breloom AKA the evilest thing to come to pokemom]) I found this:

Ambipom@ Life Orb
Jolly
6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
- Fake Out
- U-Turn
- Payback
- Taunt
Fake outs first then if Im against a SRer/Spiker/TRer/Statuser/Stat-Upper I Taunt or if Im not against one of those I U-Turn my ass outta there and Payback is to hit ghost
 
Shine said:
Frosslass is the only Ghost spiker in the game. Have fun Rapid Spinning that one, assholes!
Click to expand...

Hey Everybody on all of Smogon and Shoddy. Please shut the fuck up about Frosslass. Seriously, she's too frail to get Spikes in, and who Spins directly on something that can just uses Spikes next turn? Be a good person and switch Dusknoir in on RS instead of Spiking with Medicham-sized Defenses. Please. For the love of God.

Also, why do people think its some kind of amazing sweeper too (mostly on Shoddy)? Gengar completely outclasses it in every way in that field.

So guys, do you get my drift? Frosslass is UU for a reason. Please. Grahh I hate it! it sucks!
 
Despite Ambipom being a 'popular' starter, I still find it somewhat...dumb, if it's those Life Orb/Fake Out variants as just ending up Fake Outting a TTar/Hippo loses you 16% your first turn, you U-Turn, there goes another 16%. Later you switch into Stealth Rock, it just adds up too much too quickly =/
 
BLAZIKEN_57 said:
It seems that a Choice Specs Azelf with Flamethrower, Grass Knot, Psychic, and Shadow Ball could work well. The standard but Specs in place of Life Orb and Shadow Ball in place of Nasty Plot. The problem would be Weavile leads, but with some HP investment you could survive a Pursuit (assuming you stay in of course).
Click to expand...

I forget how DP rounds damage, but if 99.66% doesn't round to a KO, Azelf needs 28 HP EVs to guarantee living through a Jolly Choice Band Weavile's Pursuit. Weavile needs to be Jolly to outspeed max speed Timid Azelf. However, even 252 HP 252 Def Azelf isn't guaranteed to live through a CB Night Slash. Also keep in mind that Focus Sash is common on Weavile, meaning you will take it to 1 HP and lose Azelf, or possibly end up with a Swords Danced Weavile at 1 or full health.

Weavile leads don't seem common at all on Shoddy right now though.
 
I like the anti starter Breloom myself. It can't kill all leads, though it makes Weavile and Tar run. And at least is stops any type of statusing, and locks Choicers into one move. Moveset is like this:

-Mach Punch
-Spore
-Protect
-Seed bomb

thought I can't remember IV's. Its in the analysis.
 
Hah, perish trappers are by far the best leads imo, especially gengar. Any lead you face that is scared of any of Gengar's potential moves (and doesn't have high sp def) switches out to their special wall and then it's bye bye for them. Oh, and what a coincidence, this works so well because Gengar has a movepool that is only bested by Octillery's.
 
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