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NOC Animal Mafia ~Game Over~

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vanilla cop/neighborizer can be VERY strong in the right hands

especially neighborizer - one of my scumbuddies was a mafia neighborizer in a game I played last year and pocketed nearly the entire town using the ability.

vanilla cop.. basically tells you who to kill on subsequent nights I think
 
apricity said:
just saying tho, if aubisio is scum, then the scum team is what, a cop a neighborizer and an ascetic? bit weak with no roleblockers, which would clear leet
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Fair; especially with multiple powerful investigatives on town's end in this scenario. Town wouldve had watcher, rolecop, and a BG for scum to have to contend with. Hmm ~_~
 
I'll do some PR analysis later tomorrow but keep in mind that I am an outsider to Smogon balancing rules and stuff

I've designed setups of my own and have my own personal philosophy regarding balancing setups but I daresay that the way setups are designed + balanced here differ from my standards.
 
LVP Earlio always here to talk, my votes sticking and Jalmon cuz god knows a town messenger playing like that won't be nice to have during LYLO
 
3P1K said:
Nah you are the goat my dude. Ok; if jalmont flips red then who is the partner in your opinion?
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Hitmon's proph tunnel is strange making him a decent choice, not sure about Aubisio if Jalmont flips red due to them being the first "persuade"
 
Prophylaxis said:
Ehhh.

Jalmont: Can you please explain what you were trying to accomplish, if anything, by using your role in this manner, if you are indeed the messenger?

From reading things it feels like you're using it in a really anti-town manner and I'm just wondering what you were actually trying to /do/ if that makes sense?
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Idk I wanted to do something interesting with the messenger. There's literally no use and I didn't really see the harm in using it as a fake persuade (mainly because I wasn't convinced people would fall for it). Arguably you could say I could see how people reacted to determine alignment but I didn't really do that so
 
Prophylaxis said:
But now I'm kind of unsure, because I can think of lots of ways a messenger type role can be used (sending last will thoughts, coordinating PR actions, etc) and Jalmont if he is what he described is using it in one of the more self destructive ways the role CAN be used, so.

I'm just very confused as to what his motivations are.

What do you gain from.. sending out messages to players saying that there is a persuade type role, but then denying that it exists in the main thread AND scumreading players for it? It's just a very very bizarre line of play to take IMO, and that's why I want Jalmont in here to explain things and explain his mindset.
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i mean that's very fair. i think i already explained my motivations but i will say that you're wrong about the scumreading players for it part. i didn't actually scum read anyone talking about the persuade (although yea in general setup spec is scummy for me). but that part had no effect on how i've been reading people itg
 
Prophylaxis said:
Hitmonleet: Sure, I'm playing differently than a game that I can honestly list as one of my top performances as town of all time, and a game where I was 100% engaged and active in from the beginning. How does that make me mafia?

I do agree that I am less engaged and less active in this game than the previous one. But since I've replaced in, we've lynched two mafia thus far, simply by going through the PoE and lynching the people who are the most behaviorally suspect. I think we're doing well and I don't see any reason for us to change at the moment until we start mislynching.

Why are you null/scumreading me when

1) You're not even attempting to ask me questions in order to determine my alignment, just listing off statements of how I'm different in this game than the previous one

2) I replaced in, stated that Xnadroj and Knights were my two top scumreads, and they both flipped mafia. Am I town who is accurately reading them as mafia, or scum who just decided to throw the vanilla cop and neighborizer on the bus?

Genuinely curious here.
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1. You do have a good point there. However (and this is going to sound like a copout, I know), I've found that directly asking questions tends to be a terrible idea on smogon. I've been lynched at least 3 times because I asked too many questions, and normally, flat out asking a question, as opposed to insinuating them and getting a response to statements, makes it extremely easy for mafia to bluff and make themselves look good. As such, I was providing my suspicions as statements, as opposed to flat out questions. It saddens me that you think I'm scum, but at least I think you're probably town, based on your reactions to my statements, although your sudden self-aggrandizing is... off-putting, to say the least.

2. As I've said before, JOAT mafia pretty much happened in the same way: Town got too comfortable with a situation that normally seemed absurd. I'm simply saying we should still suspect others until they're proven to be town. I've lost way too many games because of one well-placed mole, so being at least a bit paranoid of everyone is kind of my MO at this point.
 
Hitmonleet said:
1. You do have a good point there. However (and this is going to sound like a copout, I know), I've found that directly asking questions tends to be a terrible idea on smogon. I've been lynched at least 3 times because I asked too many questions, and normally, flat out asking a question, as opposed to insinuating them and getting a response to statements, makes it extremely easy for mafia to bluff and make themselves look good. As such, I was providing my suspicions as statements, as opposed to flat out questions. It saddens me that you think I'm scum, but at least I think you're probably town, based on your reactions to my statements, although your sudden self-aggrandizing is... off-putting, to say the least.

2. As I've said before, JOAT mafia pretty much happened in the same way: Town got too comfortable with a situation that normally seemed absurd. I'm simply saying we should still suspect others until they're proven to be town. I've lost way too many games because of one well-placed mole, so being at least a bit paranoid of everyone is kind of my MO at this point.
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As long as you don't look like you're just asking questions without giving opinions and taking stances, or like the answers to your questions don't matter and have no influence on your reasonings, you won't be lynched just for asking questions
 
Can't say that I find Aubisio's behavior to be especially scummy considering his meta, but his claim does seem pretty sketchy. Echoing Epik on how limited use ascetic makes no sense as a town role.
 
Jalmont said:
i mean that's very fair. i think i already explained my motivations but i will say that you're wrong about the scumreading players for it part. i didn't actually scum read anyone talking about the persuade (although yea in general setup spec is scummy for me). but that part had no effect on how i've been reading people itg
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Can you explain your choice of targets + confirm why you're certain that Aubisio is indeed a limited use ascetic
 
Jalmont said:
Hey guys can we not vote me
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+1 to this.
People on jalmont atm should at the very least explain why the feel the messenger shenanigans are inherently scummy. I dont see benefit in scum!jalmont doing what he did. (granted i dont see much benefit in town!jalmont doing it either). Hence me saying its pretty nai.
 
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