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NOC Animal Mafia ~Game Over~

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MoodyCloud said:
These are the posts that caught my attention while looking for Asek's reads, not sure why Blazade's team would off him since he wasn't pushing them even remotely hard, not sure about the Knights read, the sr on me is from me being idle for around 24h I assume, the Jalmont sr is the only one I can really get behind and see as sufficient pressure to warrant a kill on Asek.
They had a weird tr on Hawkie too
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Quoting this because it was relevant and i kinda agree.
 
Aubisio said:
Blazade is still suspicious from yesterday, also he somewhat evaded the lynch.

I kinda wanna policy Haruno, but they seem to be playing better, if they are active

Jalmont is being weird instead of rational, which is unusual

Whydon whatcha think about stuff
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Pointed out something strange about jalmont without offering a read.
KnightsofCydonia said:
I'm not following you here. Aubisio is persuaded but he's using it to fake Townie? Why even bother with an actual persuade if it and he are both scum? It seems like wasted effort to me.
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Thought occured while reading this one, you have got to believe the if scum!jalmont exists he at least told his partner's he's a messenger... right? Fakeclaiming to a scumbuddy for the sake of fucking with them is beyond stupid and pointless. So i feel looking at how genuine KoC, Aubisio, and Xnads comments on the persuade feel will also help clear/damn this slot and will be doing so from here on as well. KoC being dismissive of the implied scenario isnt really incriminating though idt as its more a defense on aubisio than anything.
 
Part of me would like to think that scum!jalmont wouldve tried to be more passive during the interaction with texas when things got heated; but that could just be me being kinda naive. So im gonna attempt to not read into that for the sake of read accuracy.
Texas Cloverleaf said:
tl;dr jordan's second post in the game is a vote on mithril that is extremely defensive. his vote is purely because mithril voted for him and jordan attempts to deflect to the other wagons that currently exist. the motivation for this post is heavily one of self-preservation which is typically a scum motivation.

in 174, jordan places a weak vote that is easy to justify against thunderballz with time to the deadline, despite having other active scum reads he could be pressuring for information. to quote, "is this town!jordan's strongest read? does he vote for tballz here rather than pushing asek who he outright states is a scum read? I think i maintain the scum read on jordan which is awkward because i agree with a lot of the rest of this post."

a jordan flip also heavily implicates blazade' alignment as his partner, scum or town, by virtue of jordan's soft defense of blazade and his being the third and tying vote on blazade's counterwagon.

if jordan flips scum (and blazade is his partner) that also clears jalmont/asek/hawkie in my mind based on the reads i've developed in other parts of the research
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Posting that for referenc
Jalmont said:
your case on xnadroj is just not a good one. it looks worse in comparison because you wrote a whole lot of words beforehand just to call most people town/you can't get a read on them. I can do the exact same thing too. Anyone can really.

The problem with this argument is that you effectively just gave a free pass to everyone you couldn't read. you're literally punishing someone who tried to engage with the game and using fairly whimsical reasoning at best to explain why he's mafia. your best reason is that this vote will give us info when i dont want info. so it's hard for me to believe you when you tell me this is your strongest scum read. I'm not trying to vote for who is going to give us the most info. I want to vote the person most likely to be mafia.


ok if u ignore the fact that vote was a near-RVS vote and occurred 12 hours into the game basically, then maybe you'd have a point except self-preservation does not equal mafia. self-preservation is true (or at least should be...) of everyone in the game. you shouldnt want to be lynched regardless of faction. and thats ignoring the fact that this was essentially a RVS vote so i dont know if u purposefully missed that context or what

i mean if you actually look at the post there's very obviously more than just an OMGUS vote - jordans calling mithril for ignoring the discussion at the time and choosing to vote him because inactivity. i'm totally ok with that, especially since i see most "prod" votes as easy for mafia to get town cred for engaging with the game.



?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

this is your strongest scum read? how about people who placed no vote at all? where do they fit in with all of this? why wouldn't mafia jordan just not vote there, that way he can't get called out either way?
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Took a very hard defense of jordan in this post
 
XnadrojX said:
all right i see the whole of the past 2 pages has been Texas and Jalmont slinging shit at each other, but I don't think voting someone purely because their playstyle annoys you is better than voting a scumread.

I can't really say anything to defend myself from Texas, but while self-preservation is inherently more of a scum trait, some people as town (which I like to say includes me for the purpose of this defense) would place self-preservation as a beneficial trait to have when town as it lowers the PoE. The main argument on me is that I guess so yeah.

Back to real things, what are we going to do about Haruno and Durza?

I feel like I want to townread Jalmont for being so against the tide but then again it could be me being pocketed so.... I'd put him as town for now.


Vote MoodyCloud

Don't like that naked sheeping of Texas
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Soft defense--->Light Tr of jalmont with a relatively weak basis. Feels like an attempt to take heat of jalmont without making connection here obvious
 
Jalmont said:
ap/twin//blazade//////hawkie
aubisio??earlio???
haruno
whydon

that big group of 4 is really the key to the game i think. twin i feel can be mafia because i do feel like he's not as forthcoming/aggressive in pushing people as he usually is...granted the difference is slight. i just can't really decide between those two plus blazade. blazade has been pretty weak this game but has had some interesting observations. but for the most part i just find that he's playing in a vacuum. hawkie is there if only because i dont want to let him off the hook so easily for disappearing although i tend to think that's town if anything.

the thing i dont like about aubisio was his recent post re: blazade. for someone who likes posts that he agrees with seems odd that he found a random line in texas's wall that changed his mind suddenly on blazade. i almost think earlio's effort this game warrants him being town for once, and i wanna think that his vote reasoning on me being so bad is just a symptom of this (meaning as mafia he probably would just ignore me). still feel like i cant ignore that vote for now.

i just put haruno over durza here because haruno has at least made some pretense over caring about this game in a few of the posts he's made.

whydon for previously stated reasons.

anyways at this point ill vote whoever that's not me. apparently conventional wisdom says that only mafia play the self-preservation game, but i personally am playing it as town because I know that me being voted is a lose for the village so i'd like to avoid that. please and thank you
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(Implying scum!Jalmont) only scum in this pool is aubisio; and even aubisio is not that high up. I really dont think up till this point (correct me if im wrong) until this point he has made any legitimate push on an actual member of the scumteam (again implying scum!jalmont) which honestly i dont think bodes well for him as it feels aubisio is only on this list as the generic "oh i have to put another buddy here; lemme put the most bussable one?" Either that or his reads are just genuinely off. Hard to tell which from this post.
 
As an aside i'd like to think scum!jalmont wouldnt have been that aggressive towards texas? But that could just me being foolish tbh; but in general scum dont wanna make enemies? I'd like to lean town on the whole thing but its kinda an area of the game clouded by emotion making it hard to truly read into.
 
I plan to do this to everyone in my POE jalmont. Not just you. Rest assured. You are more than capable enough to realize that that shouldnt let a town stop from giving their thoughts and using that as an excuse is weak.
 
I wouldn’t TR on the Texas Jalmont fight just because scum would usually be more reserved, do we know what Scum Jalmont’s play isn’t like
 
Basically my lynch order:
Proph + Former Hope + Me
Haruno
3P1K
Jalmont

I guess?? Like Haruno is pretty hard cleared but a mafia doctor is possible and might have even been played to seem as town as possible, but super unlikely seeing as that play killed KoC. Proph is virtually our leader, Former is redirect, I know I'm town, which leaves Jalmont and 3P1K as lynch targets I guess
 
Okay, time to stop being lazy and say what I wanted to say yesterday but procrastinated (lol)

Prophylaxis 3P1K not to look a townread in the mouth. But could you explain why you townread that part? Ngl, even though I was the one saying it, if someone else said it I would probably see it as NAI as well, it's not a hard logic argument to make, especially if the person couldn't come to a real conclusion, so I want to know why you did town read it.

re: Jalmont, like I've said before. Reading Jalmont this game has been hard as his play has come off as irrational, which I've had trouble pinging as town or scum. today certainly, I haven't really liked his posts. Feels too much like someone giving up and trying to lazily not be lynched. But if he was scum, what would be his game here? Hope that defense stops him from being lynched and then somehow someone else is lynched tomorrow?

Plus there's the mechanical side. Jalmont being scum is weird. Like, he tells aubisio day 1 to claim persuaded for him? Then hits another scum buddy (he did persuade KOC right? I believe so but w/e). I could imagine I guess that he would be trying to help the pair of them get cleared. But if they went with that strategy, then I don't know why Jalmont would openly say there's no persuade instead of allowing people to just believe that, and thus help provide cover for his scum buddies. That route just seems to convoluted and frankly, I don't think an actual scum team makes a plot that complex.
MoodyCloud said:
Okay everyone should give their town pool with the reasons why people are inside it
And a lynch order
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From town to scum
Haruno
Jalmont
Earlio
Epik/Proph

Haruno - Because I still don't see any world in which the scum intentionally burn a kill and Haruno claims BG instead of omniguard or sg or w/e
Jalmont - Sort of still because of the mechanical reasons, the reason he's above earlio in particular is because of the dynamic of scum messanger and a town messanger vs 2 town inspects + 2 scum inspects
Earlio - A lot of lurking and self proclaimed sheeping. But still a weird role for scum except for blending in with town.
Epik/Proph - Like i've said plenty of times and still believe, I think the most obvious mechanical answer is that the last scum role is hiding under a VT claim. Between the two of them, I'd probably be a bit more inclined to lynch Proph. The reason being that despite the very high number of their posts I agree with/TR, I can see Proph's position probably being the most adventaguos for the scum to be in right now.
 
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