Another Stall team RMT

Gentle_Kman

This team actually does quite well on Shoddy but since Ive reached a certain rating I just get battered (And its usually Latias to do the job) so i was wondering how I could improve my team, And so here it is:


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Gyarados (♂) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk//252 Spd/4 HP
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Waterfall
---
 Max Speed taunt Gyarados for my lead. I love this guy. Taunts most Stealth Rock leads except for Aero, Intimadtes the lead so Explosion doesnt get immediate OHKO from things like Bronzong or Metagross. Thinking about replacing Dragon Dance with another attack for more coverage.


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Forretress (♂) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/176 Spd/80 SAtk
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin
- Zap Cannon
---
My trusty spinner. Resists a hell of a lot stuff, lays rocks and removes them as well. Can take switch into Aerodactyl (which Gyara doesnt like) or any pure Physiccal attacker and explode on em. Also deals with Gyara with Zap Cannon and deals with things on the switch.

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Tangrowth (♂) @ Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 HP/228 Def/28 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Toxic
---

 My other Defensive Wall, Knock Off, Seed or Toxic on the switch. Usually Knock Off on the switch though. I like this thing since it can switch into something it can handle and literally mess it about and usually forces a switch.

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Blissey (♀) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 148 HP/252 Def/4 Spd/104 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice beam
- Softboiled
- Flamethrower
- Thunder wave
---

 Flamethrower to hurt Steels, such as Skarmory, Scizor and Metagross. Ice beam for coverage. Thunder Wave to cripple sweepers so Gyara and Infernape can do their thing.

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Infernape (♂) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 24 Atk/232 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot
- Nasty Plot
---

 My late game sweeper. I felt that I needed a bit more special (I still feel I need a bit more special) So I went with the mixed sweeper Infernape. Close Combat for those Special Walls. Nasty Plot on Swtiches, Grass Knot + Flamethrower (for STAB) provide decent type coverage.

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Swampert (♂) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP/212 Def/56 SAtk
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar
- Hydro Pump

 Phazing Bulky Swampert. Needed a Phazer on my team, So iI went for Swampert since he has great typing and is pretty stable. Also has a good coverage of attacks and Hydro Pump does put a dent into most things if it doesnt miss =/

Ghosts and Cresselia (and now Latias) can hurt this team, So I kinda need a suggestion to counter that. But I was thinking Spiritomb over Tangrowth. Thanks
 
Well it doesnt seem like this is a stall team at all, if you want to make a full stall team you are gonna have to make some drastic changes.

For starters you don't even have a ghost pokemon on your team to protect your entry hazards, that is a very bad sign of a stall team. In order for you to turn this into a stall team you are going to have to change the following.

Change Gyra into a bulky rest/sleep talk set. Something around these lines

Gyarados @ Leftovers
252HP / 220 DEF / 36SpD
~Rest
~Sleep Talk
~Waterfall
~Roar / Avalanche

I would also opt to change tangrowth into Rotom-appliance. The set to run rotom with is completely on you, but I would go with something that has will-o-wisp to counter hard hitting physical attackers. I would go with protect over hydro pump on swampert, as Ice Beam and Earthquake already provide all the coverage you need, and protect/roar pert is very annoying and good.

Theres a lot more other things to change as well, but this is all I can rate for now, il edit my post later.
 
Well I know its not really that stallish, It originally was but then I made a few changes. Originally Gyarados was a lot more Bulky but I always felt it didnt hit hard enough thats why I changed it up and it does well that way but Ill give the bulky SleepTalk Gyarados a go since it also blocks status which I had a bit of trouble with as well.

Hmmm a Rotom appliance, i never thought about that. Ill try it and see how it fairs out. Might go with Rotom-c with Will O Wisp, Leaf storm, Shadow ball and Thunderbolt.

Since Rotom-c is a decent Rapid Spin blocker on my team, instead of Protect on swampert, I may go with Rocks on Swampert instead of Hydro pump and, Spikes instead of Rocks on Forretress.

What would be your opinion on that?
 
Gentle_Kman said:
dpmfa205.png

Forretress (♂) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/176 Spd/80 SAtk
Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Rapid Spin
- Zap Cannon
---
My trusty spinner. Resists a hell of a lot stuff, lays rocks and removes them as well. Can take switch into Aerodactyl (which Gyara doesnt like) or any pure Physiccal attacker and explode on em. Also deals with Gyara with Zap Cannon and deals with things on the switch.
Click to expand...

Is that the correct nature?
 
I'm not too sure what the Gyarados lead is accomplishing on the team. It is meant to Taunt other leads to prevent Stealth Rock from going up, however, you have a Rapid Spin user in Forretress to get rid of Stealth Rock and any other entry hazards. In addition to that, stall teams aim to set up Stealth Rock as soon as possible, which Gyarados does not achieve. Simply use Swampert as your lead and give it Stealth Rock over Hydro Pump. I know you have Stealth Rock on Forretress, however, Forretress is a key member to you team as it can set up two other very important entry hazards for your team - Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Having Stealth Rock on Forretress takes up a slot that can be used on Swampert now. You do not gain much coverage from Hydro Pump that Earthquake and Ice Beam already provide. For example, Hydro Pump gets a super effective hit on Ground, Rock, and Fire-types. Earthquake already hits most Rock and Fire-types super effectively while Ice Beam hits the vast majority of Ground-types for super effective damage as well. Though, you miss out the 2HKO on Skarmory, which your team will be able to deal with when another team member I'll suggest arrives.

It would be best if you made Blissey use the WishBliss set on this team due to Forretress being on it. Forretress lacks a reliable recovery move and by giving Blissey Wish, you now have a method of healing Forretress and keeping it healthy so it can continue to set up entry hazards and Rapid Spin to get rid of any dangerous entry hazards that may harm your team.

Blissey @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
Nature: Calm
Ability: Natural Cure
-Wish
-Protect
-Flamethrower
-Toxic

Being able to rapidly build up residual damage on the opposing team is generally much more important than being able to slow a threat as far as stall teams are concerned. That is why Toxic is chosen over Thunder Wave. Protect to ease prediction against the likes of Choice Band Tyranitar. Flamethrower is chosen over Sesmic Toss as you have two Pokemon capabale of dealing with Heatran already, allowing Blissey to use Flamethrower to hit Pokemon such as Gengar who would otherwise wall you. Flamethrower also hits the Pokemon that are immune to Toxic, making it a nice addition to the set.

Now onto Forretress. Stall teams usually need the following things - Toxic Spikes and Spikes. The only current entry hazard you have on your team is Stealth Rock. You can add Spikes and Toxic Spikes on Forretress to complete the entry hazards on your team and to make wearing your opponent down more easy. Toxic Spikes should replace Sealth Rock as Swampert has it now. Spikes should go over Explosion to complete the entry hazards build up. You dont want your only Steel-type on the team to die as without it, you lose your Dragon-resist. Over Zap Cannon, use Payback. Payback may sound like a strange option, however, it works. Think about what usually comes in on Forretress to stop it from Rapid Spinning - Rotom-A and other Ghost-types. Payback hits these Ghost-types for some decent damage, allowing ou to wear them down and eventually kill them. Zap Cannon also has very low accuracy and relying on that is more harmful then beneficial. The most common EV spread used with Payback is 252 HP/252 SpD/6 Atk in order for Forretress to take on Latias and others with Payback more effectivey. With Magnezone running HP Fire quite often nowadays, it might be an idea to go for Shed Shell over Leftovers on Forretress. Since it is almost your entire entry hazard management, you'll have a hard time coming back from an opponent that quickly traps and takes it out with you not getting up a single layer of Spikes. Opponent's entry hazards will wear you down too once you can't Rapid Spin so it is omething to consider.

Now Infernape seems out of place on the team as it is not really accomplishing much. Since you have all of these entry hazards now, a Ghost-type would fit into this position nicely. By using some form of a Rotom-A, you gain Ghost-type to prevent Pokemon from using Rapid Spin to blow away your entry hazards and gain a Pokemon that can handle the likes of Scizor, Gyarados, and various others. The standard Rotom-A with Rest/Sleep Talk/Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball works well, which gives your team a solid Gyarados counter, as well as having recovery. It can use Shadow Ball to aid you in your trouble against Latias and Cresselia and ThunderBoltto strike bulky Water-types such a Vaporeon.

Lastly, this stall team faces the same problem as most other stall teams - they lose to last minute stat boosting users such as Calm Mind Suicune, Calm Mind Refresh Latias, etc. A simple fix to this would be to use Celebi in place of Tangrowth. Celebi does similar thing like Tangrowth, however, it will give your team a way to handle these aforementioned stat boosting users via Perish Song. Perish Song also aids in causing switches, allowing you to build up residual damage from your entry hazards to your opponents team! Grass Knot/Perish Song/Recover/Reflect work well and will support your team in a variety of ways. Reflect will make it easier for your team to handle strong physical threats. Recover to heal while Grass Knot serves as STAB.

Basically, your team had the potential to become a stall team if you put some entry hazards on Forretress and changed Infernape to a Ghost-type which is what I mostly did. Infernape seemed out of place on a team such as this one, so a Ghost-type seemed fitting to prevent entry hazards from being blown away. Then Blissey was changed into a Wish varient in order to keep Fprretress alive, who is very important to this team due to it Rapid Spinning and setting up enrty hazards. Celebi was chosen over Tangrowth as it will help against the last minute stat boosting users you would otherwise lose too while doing much of the same tasks Tangrowth was doing as well.

The Gyarados set romeojustdie provided is the one this type of team should use. Gyarados is a very vital team member and with Rest, it will last for very long periods of time. Gyarados is particularly significant because it covers threats like Lucario, Infernape, etc, all of which trouble this team without Gyarados.
 
Thank you very much! That was a very insightful post, it helped me immensely. I just have a question about Celebi. Is there another Pokemon that fits Celebi's role?

In all honesty, I may use this team to Wifi battle and getting Celebi with the right nature is meh. But I cant really think of an appropriate replacement. I was think about Mismaigus since it is good Perishtrapper with decent defences and the wish support from Blissey helps a lot also. Whats your opinion?

Thanks again!
 
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