Arcanine (New Format) (QC 1/2)

[1_TrickPhony]

Taking over for Ika's analysis, thanks to my bud for his work he's done so far. Posted below is a copy of his current analysis, I will update it later today.

name: Angry Boy (All Out Offensive)
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Extreme Speed
move 3: Wild Charge / Play Rough
move 4: Close Combat / Play Rough
item: Assault Vest / Expert Belt / Life Orb
ability: Intimidate
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* This set functions as an all out attacker, relying on Arcanine's natural bulk and Intimidate to place investment in Attack and Speed while forgoing status and healing.

* Flare Blitz and Extreme Speed are recommended for the first two move slots to give Arcanine a powerful STAB alongside fantastic priority.

* Close Combat is used so Arcanine can take on Tyranitar and Snorlax while also boosting Arcanine's Attack when in Dynamax Form.

* Wild Charge allows Arcanine to be competitive against Water-types who are common switch ins, such as Lapras, as well as outspeeding and OHKOing Gyarados. However, this move falls flat when dealing with Water/Ground-types, which do not care about Wild Charge.

* Play Rough allows Arcanine to beat most Dragapult and Hydreigon sets, and hits Conkeldurr particularly hard.

* Items on this set are flexible: Assault Vest is usually used to augment its bulk, and damage boosting items: Expert Belt or Life Orb, help Arcanine hit harder.

* The given EVs allow Arcanine to outspeed Jolly Excadrill and hit as hard as possible with its good coverage options and powerful STAB.

[SET]
name: Good Boy (Bulky Offensive)
move 1: Flare Blitz / Burn Up
move 2: Extreme Speed
move 3: Play Rough / Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Close Combat / Wild Charge / Morning Sun
item: Assault Vest / Sitrus Berry / Rocky Helmet
ability: Intimidate
nature: Adamant
evs: 140 HP / 204 Atk / 156 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

* Arcanine invested in bulk serves as a decent check to physical attackers in the tier such as Mimikyu, while also taking advantage of opposing Steel-types such as Corviknight and Ferrothorn.

* Flare Blitz is the best STAB Arcanine gets and Extreme Speed is an excellent Priority move and are seen on most sets. Burn Up can be used to remove Arcanine's Fire weaknesses while delivering a strong one time attack.

* On Assault Vest sets, the last two moveslots are occupied by two of Wild Charge, Close Combat and Play Rough as coverage options fitted based on team need.

* On Non-Assault Vest sets, Will-o-Wisp allows Arcanine to burn threatening physical attackers such as Excadrill, Tyranitar, Mimikyu and Dragapult.

* Morning Sun is also used in combination with Will-o-Wisp to grant Arcanine consistent healing.

* Finally, Weakness Policy is another surprise option due to Arcanine's great bulk combined with Fire Type's multiple weaknesses, allowing Arcanine to activate the item easily without getting KO'ed while Dynamaxed.

EV Spreads
=========

* 140 HP / 204 Atk / 156 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe with an Adamant Nature: This EV spread allows Arcanine to take a Max Quake from Jolly Excadrill after Intimidate and the rest is placed into Attack for the most possible Damage.

* 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def with an Impish Nature: Simple maximum physical bulk spread.

* 204 HP / 4 Atk / 92 Def / 204 SpD / 4 Spe with an Adamant nature: Specially-bulky Assault Vest spread.


General Team Options
=================

Pair Arcanine with Pokemon that mitigate its Water and Ground weaknesses. Offensively, this Arcanine also does well with attackers that can take care of Dragon-type threats, specifically Dragapult and Dracovish.

* Water and Ground-type checks:

* Dragon-type checks:

 

[1_TrickPhony]

Ready for QC!

 

[cant say]

I think wild charge is as mandatory as Blitz and Espeed, so it shouldn’t have a slash. I also think we’re undervaluing play rough and overvaluing CC a bit. just put wild charge third with no slash, and PR the main fourth move.

I’ve also ran into way more of these slow, 4 attacks AV sets than anything else. I think the main set should have AV as the first item, with the aforementioned moves from the second set moved to the front of their slots, with wisp / morning sun moved back as secondary options. WP can also be mentioned as an item somewhere, I know it’s good on everything but something with actual bulk + offense, as well as priority is especially good with it.

 

[1_TrickPhony]

I think wild charge is as mandatory as Blitz and Espeed, so it shouldn’t have a slash. I also think we’re undervaluing play rough and overvaluing CC a bit. just put wild charge third with no slash, and PR the main fourth move.

I’ve also ran into way more of these slow, 4 attacks AV sets than anything else. I think the main set should have AV as the first item, with the aforementioned moves from the second set moved to the front of their slots, with wisp / morning sun moved back as secondary options. WP can also be mentioned as an item somewhere, I know it’s good on everything but something with actual bulk + offense, as well as priority is especially good with it.

Made the second paragraph changes.

However, in the first paragraph, I don't know if I agree with your move analysis: I gave my reasons why Wild Charge seems pretty slashable in my analysis (Most bulky waters are Quag/Gastro water-grounds, Rotom-W isn't hit super effectively anyways), and Arcanine is a SUPER shaky check to Gyarados) What are you hitting with Wild Charge other than Gyarados to justify it not being slashable (but still in the main slash anyways)?

Here are some gyara calcs if you weren't convinced before:

calcs

-1 204+ Atk Arcanine Max Lightning (130 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Wacan Berry Dynamax Gyarados: 112-134 (32.7 - 39.1%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO (99.70% chance to 3HKO after accuracy)
-1 204+ Atk Arcanine Max Lightning (130 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Gyarados: 224-268 (65.4 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (100.00% chance to 2HKO after accuracy)
204+ Atk Arcanine Max Lightning (130 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Gyarados: 340-400 (99.4 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (93.8% chance to OHKO after accuracy)
-1 252 Atk Expert Belt Arcanine Max Lightning (130 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Gyarados: 259-307 (75.7 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (100.00% chance to 2HKO after accuracy)
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Gyarados Max Geyser (130 BP) vs. 140 HP / 156 Def Arcanine: 190-226 (103.8 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (100.00% after accuracy)
-1 252 Atk Gyarados Max Geyser (130 BP) vs. 140 HP / 156 Def Arcanine: 146-174 (79.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (100.00% chance to 2HKO after accuracy)

Basically, only Greedy Gyara with Moxie and no Wacan can die to Arcanine Max Lightning, and basically gets OHKOed back regardless.

Ive already made my opinion know I think in the other thread, but I think that coverage moves should be Wild Charge > Close Combat >= Play Rough, but honestly I think they are interchangeable and it depends on your team comp. Play Rough as a ttar check was already not great, but also as a Dragapult check got even shakier now with physical WP becoming common: you get max wyrmwinded to -1Atk, play rough/Starfall bounces off of Dragapult and it uses you to setup and sweep.

 

[cant say]

just because quagsire is a thing now doesn’t mean “most” waters are water ground. pex is still the premier bulky water and (max) wild charge is great for that. not all gyara are wacan either, I haven’t seen many of them at all since the first week of BSS.

max ttar doesn’t die to close combat, and regular lives max knuckle 50% of the time. and that’s the only target for it. otherwise it’s just for attack boosts. CC’s defence drops are bad for a bulky attacker like Arcanine

 

[1_TrickPhony]

I've looked at the dozen nouthuca Arcanine blogs that exist, and all of them, like I had suggested earlier, rotate between having Wild Charge, Play Rough, and Close Combat. I like my slashes as is. In fact, I saw a a team that forgo Extreme Speed to have all 3 options, seen on the Expert Belt set.

I have also switched the offensive set to be the main set.

 

[1_TrickPhony]

This analysis has been updated for the new formatting style and updated for S4. Now ready for QC!

 

[marilli]

Might as well approve QC1/2. Feel free to also shelf / deprioritize this if there's better Pokemon in QC, but everything's stuck in GP per usual so lol might as well approve now. The mon's fairly bad, but it can serve well in teams that rely on winning individual head-to-head matchups.

I'm not sure where exactly we can put this / or if it's even appropriate, but some note of its low overall viability would be cool.