Data ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread (New Proposal Handling System in OP)

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Well there's already enough abilities that reduce the BAP of incoming moves. Anticipation, Sturdy, Solid Rock, Filter, Overcoat, Magma Armor (iirc) ...

As for why new Illuminate wouldn't stack? Three street lights in the same area isn't much of an improvement on one street light.
 
Actually they do, two lights are an improvement since one light can ony go into one direction with respect of an alien object, a second one creates a secondary light source that reduces the number of shadows into any given space or object, this is the more notable inside a photography studio where you can see the diference between one, two and three reflectors on a model since every other light source avaible is gone, and I have to assure you, the difference is notable

PS: Proposed Forewarn sucks, dodge sucks, and not even removing the cap makes it so incredibly niche and not even worth as an ability
 
Gerard said:
Actually they do, two lights are an improvement since one light can ony go into one direction with respect of an alien object, a second one creates a secondary light source that reduces the number of shadows into any given space or object, this is the more notable inside a photography studio where you can see the diference between one, two and three reflectors on a model since every other light source avaible is gone, and I have to assure you, the difference is notable
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Not for lights that don't actually have a direction but are merely a radius, like what a street light is. And having two doesn't actually improve visibility significantly more than having one does.
 
All multiple lights does is increase the area of illumination, not increase the strength of illumination. . .

Also, we do not need a Timid Starmie firing 100% Accurate Zap Cannons everywhere in TLR's without Gravity, do we not?

Gerard said:
PS: Proposed Forewarn sucks, dodge sucks, and not even removing the cap makes it so incredibly niche and not even worth as an ability
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  1. Dodge is capped for a reason, & the chances of a Forewarn mon hitting the dodge cap is pretty slim.
  2. The "hax" coming from the current version is replaced by an improved Evasive Agility & Teleport, which allows the mon to dodge everything that comes after it in an action. That is the major niche coming here.
  3. As far as I am concerned, anything would be better than current Forewarn, except worse hax.
Besides, Munna line & Smoochum aside, the Forewarn mons get access to Teleport/Agility, & honestly, how would you fix forewarn if you do not like this version, huh? And current Forewarn is terrible, so...
 
I would propose something as:

The Pokemon is able to evade all moves with a BP of 12 or higher

Though idk how much support it would get as it's indeed powerful though you're no longer afraid to miss with stuff such as Flamethrower & Fire Punch, and this is the best I could think of after the original (immune to the highest powered move the opponent has) is also pretty much dead weight considering everything has Hyper Beam / Giga Impact.

Maybe some modification though 12 BP is the most common "high" BP (for the record the original was made so that you would be immune to HJK if that was the highest one, Fire Blast if that was the highest one, Flamethrower is that was the highest one, etc... Though again, Hyper Beam and Giga Impact make the ability not worth it).
 
I might back a power reduction to moves with high BAP, but not complete evasion.

From a cursory glance at veekun, there are 52 moves with 120 BAP or higher, which would translate into being into your proposed bound for Forewarn. Take out the legendary moves, and you have 44 moves. Then, there are the ~10 moves with variable BAP that might fall into this category; I'll ignore them for now.

Avoiding 44 moves guaranteed is a significant effect. To put it in perspective, the only types with more than 44 moves is Normal and Psychic, and many of the moves in those categories are non-attacking. Moreover, these 44 moves are the ones that would be dealing the most damage, which means their effect is even more noteworthy than a "immune to X-type" ability like Motor Drive.

Also a minor nitpick: in-game Forewarn doesn't make you immune to the highest-power move as far as I know; instead, it just tells you what the highest power move is.
 
I think something more like "this Pokemon has a Dodge rate of 100% against all super-effective moves with a BAP higher than 12" would be less broken, but still useful in that you can dodge the moves that would hurt a shitton (but not just for free, you have to actually Dodge)
 
It would be more reasonable, however, a problem could be that, as a half of the Pokemon with Forewarn are pure Psychic type, they are only weak to Bug, Dark, and Ghost, and among those three types there is only one move with 12 BAP or more, that being Megahorn. (Not including Shadow Force.) Other than Jynx and Necturna, C$FP's version in my opinion provides little support for a majority of Forwarn users. Maybe the BAP could be reduced to 8 for this effect?
 
well this would also cover Combinations used agains them, giving the mons near immunity to SE Offensive Combos used against them, I'm not quite sure if thats all the benefit we want from it, but just wanted to point out.
 
To be honest, given that in-game Forewarn works off of base attack power, not type effectiveness, I don't see why we'd have to limit Forewarn's effectiveness (whatever effect we decide on) to super effective moves.

I think I remember someone (possibly Dogfish44) suggesting "When this pokemon uses Dodge, Evasive Agility or Evasive Teleport, any moves that still hit it have their damage halved." sort of like the equivalent of a grazing hit. Other than that, Its_A_Random's idea looks good as well. But I really don't think that passive evasion of any kind is a good idea.
 
I think any sort of dodge modification is kind of an unnecessary burden and still perpetuates the hax aspect of it. I put my non-existent vote towards an Anticipation clone, as it has the most similar effect effect in-game.
 
Anticipation clone is a great idea imo.

On the other hand, my idea for Forewarn is to give the pokemon a 100% Effective Dodge against most attacks. Spread moves, combos and priority wouldnt be affected.

That way, Dodge would be generaly better, but without making Teleport and the likes out-classed.
 
what if we made it cause the opponents move with the highest BAP to have no effect? this wouldnt be amazingly powerful because things with ohko moves or explosion etc would pretty much be unaffected by it, whereas it could be fairly strong vs mons with four bap 12 moves or something like that?
 
Matezoide said:
Anticipation clone is a great idea imo.

On the other hand, my idea for Forewarn is to give the pokemon a 100% Effective Dodge against most attacks. Spread moves, combos and priority wouldnt be affected.

That way, Dodge would be generaly better, but without making Teleport and the likes out-classed.
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Actually, that Forewarn idea would make Dodge pretty much outclass evasive Teleport and evasive Agility, because those don't avoid spread moves or faster moves and have lower priority than Dodge, and they cost more energy.
 
Imanalt said:
what if we made it cause the opponents move with the highest BAP to have no effect? this wouldnt be amazingly powerful because things with ohko moves or explosion etc would pretty much be unaffected by it, whereas it could be fairly strong vs mons with four bap 12 moves or something like that?
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Hyper Beam & Giga Impact make this dead weight vs any trained mon
 
Complications said:
On Pwnemon's argument for ref compensation during a DQ, I have a suggestion:

For singles battles, refs receive a compensation of .5 UC per round, rounded up. In cases where you only ref, say, one round, you get 1 UC, but if you were to red 26 (near the size of a 6vs), you'd get 13.

For doubles battles, you would get 1 UC per round, seein how they are more difficult to ref.

For triples battles, you would get either 1 or 1.5 UC per round, rounded up. Personally I lean more towards 1 UC per round seeing as the number of actions in a round of triples is the same as that of doubles.

Of course, all DQ compensation with this formula would be capped at the amount of UC obtained if the match had been completed properly.
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I have another suggestion - based on the fact that most match have a 2-day DQ period, and most ASB-ers are kind enough to extend that DQ, a match usually ends at least 5 days after the last post. Since the winner in a DQ match gets the regular rewards, can the reffs get the equivalent compensation of a fully played match as well?

Example said:
A 3v3 Doubles match ends in a DQ when Player 1 passes the time limit. Player 1 has 2 mons KO'ed, Player 2 has 1 mon KO'ed. Reff rewards would then be calculated as if Player 1 is fully defeated, which means regular 7 UC (3v3) plus 2 UC (3 mons DQ'ed Player 1, 1 mon DQ'ed Player 2, divided by 2 for Doubles format).
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The reason for this is that reffs take serious responsibility for the matches - ensuring fairness in calcs, deciding flavor, putting the thread up, etc. - so it would be nice to see them compensated fairly even if one of the battler is DQ'ed. There's a slight flaw that can be abused in this though - large battles (say a 6v6 Singles) give huge DQ compensation to refs, which encourage harsh DQ enforcing.
 
I personally do not like the idea of reducing Forewarn to another "Anticipation clone". The problem with that is that there are enough abilities around that do the same thing, & there is little precedence to make Forewarn to make it such (Neither has Anticipation, but w/e). The whole evasive part that current Forewarn has, does have precedence; From the PMD series, where a Pokemon with Forewarn in those games has a random chance to dodge any move, but that is beside the point.

That said, The whole guaranteed evasion of moves with 12+ BAP is worse than current Forewarn, so I am not bothering with that, Matezoide's suggestion makes Dodge outclass Evasive Agility & Evasive Teleport, by virtue of costing less Energy, & I do not mind the grazing idea ("When this pokemon uses Dodge, Evasive Agility or Evasive Teleport, any moves that still hit it have their damage halved."), perhaps more feedback on that?
 
My biggest problem with that is that best case scenario, you still equal, you both lose an action, and while the opponent might lose a bit of energy, you didn't do anything, stalling is far from efective in here, and more likely than not you lost one action going second, you haven't outdamaged your opponent, you haven't done a single thing to it, you just dodged an attack, and since no forewarn user even has a phazing move, you can't even stall into a better match, that's why I personally HATE the idea of forewarn having to do with dogde and co. any decent player will sub for evasive and protective moves and be done with it, and even if they don't, unless they use a combo or something really energy exhausting, they're not in such a bad position that missing one turn will be that bad, since they're not gonna be damage either.
 
Objection said:
Actually, that Forewarn idea would make Dodge pretty much outclass evasive Teleport and evasive Agility, because those don't avoid spread moves or faster moves and have lower priority than Dodge, and they cost more energy.
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Well, my idea involved Forewarn Dodge not working on priority moves, but i didnt think it through as much as i could/should have.


But i feel that making Forewarn Dodge better/worse than Evasive Teleport/Agility depending on the situation could work.
 
Gerard said:
My biggest problem with that is that best case scenario, you still equal, you both lose an action, and while the opponent might lose a bit of energy, you didn't do anything, stalling is far from efective in here, and more likely than not you lost one action going second, you haven't outdamaged your opponent, you haven't done a single thing to it, you just dodged an attack, and since no forewarn user even has a phazing move, you can't even stall into a better match, that's why I personally HATE the idea of forewarn having to do with dogde and co. any decent player will sub for evasive and protective moves and be done with it, and even if they don't, unless they use a combo or something really energy exhausting, they're not in such a bad position that missing one turn will be that bad, since they're not gonna be damage either.
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Stalling is more viable in ASB than you realise; See Shuckle (Walls everything), Gliscor (Can drain a lot of Energy from the opponent), Kitsunoh (Perish Stall w/ U-Turn), etc. Also, the idea that Forewarn mons cannot stall is ludicrous either; Jynx can attempt to stall out a big threat with Mean Look + Perish Song. Necturna is incredibly bulky & can recover HP quickly, & can Sketch a phasing/evasive move as well. Musharna has above average bulk & can use Pain Split alongside a variety of disruptive moves. Hypno...Well, yeah. A buffed Dodge/Evasive move is going to help them stall more effectively than you realise, Jynx in particular, since all it needs to do with perish stalling is to count down the actions. Especially given the proposed changes I made will help Jynx in Perish Stall.

That said, I may consider adding the grazing effect to Forewarn, I am thinking maybe either the version that halves damage when using one of the three evasive manoeuvres, or perhaps this version (to keep in line with ingame in terms of detecting stronger moves): "If this Pokemon takes damage whilst using either the Dodge command, Evasive Agility, or Evasive Teleport, then the damage this Pokemon takes is reduced by the BAP of the move that hit it." Thoughts?
 
Perish Song + U-turn was removed quite some time ago, but I agree with most everything in the post above except that stall is viable but really difficult to pull off especially with all the power creep items. I don't think the change to Forewarn is really worth it, though; it really doesn't make sense for you to take evade more damage numerically from a gigantic fireball than from a small ember, although it does make sense for you to evade the same amount proportionally. For this reason I'd be in support of Objection's quoting somebody else's proposal above, but the pure Dodge / Evasive move version could work as well.

Also I don't want to straw man but the argument "Pokemon XXX can't do anything with ability YYY that ability must suck" doesn't really hold water.
 
Just a nitpick, Gerard: Dodge does not fall under the evasive moves sub class, so it has a niche in fucking with people who sub for p/e
 
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