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Atheist/Christian buses
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There are a lot of reasons to create some deity - for example, deity gives unquestionable authority - and especially during times where we were essentially ignorant, it was necessary that such authority exist - to give society some sort of solid form. You can interpret the entire Old testament to say that the idea of the Jewish God is only there to give their race significance over the others, etcetera. To an extent, God is used as an easy justification for a lot of things - the kings and the rulers didn't have to worship the gods themselves, but the peasants need to.
I think the biggest reason that many people don't find the need for a supreme being anymore is because of the current attitude that humans are indeed able to comprehend everything. To a certain extent, this is why the idea of a Deity came forth to begin with - an "explanation" of how things happened, so to speak. These are the theories of the past and to a great degree we have much better explanations without resorting to personification of the sciences like people have done in the past. I agree with you that this idea of Deity is indeed "outdated" - as you have pointed out. Religion provides allegories of how the world was created, however, we have no need for the actual myths anymore, but the ideas they are attempting to bring forth.
However...
While I agree with you that organized religion has its flaws (and a ton of them), I dislike the tone you're putting forth here (that the idea of a God is "wrong"). Not even Marx would agree with you that a good educational system will "remove" religion - considering he argued that religion is a side effect of problems within society. Society will always have problems and any society without any sort of problems is only an ideal.
I definitely agree with you - to an extent. You highlighted the problem within organized religion articulately, however, I think you need to recognize that just because you "made up your mind" does not imply that everyone else is wrong, and talk about the matter as if they are so.
"What can Atheists do"? A lot of things. They can show that they have better Christian ideals than the christian themselves by showing that they are above such shenanigans. Christianity is long corrupted by organized religion and competition with different branches and churches, particularly because of the lack of ethics and the lack of a true faith in God (then again that's really hard because it's a logical leap/irrationality to begin with). Why fight with an eye for an eye? Will you fight with an eye for an eye against Westboro church, or will you just not take them seriously? (Speaking of which, Westboro church came to our school and protested and was literally laughed out of the school - I'll post pics if people want I guess)
Just because it is unjustfiable without logic, or there's a huge logical leap involved means that it's an "idiotic theory"? I think you miss the point of religion to begin with when you ask for "proof of God", etcetera. I realize that you are reacting to the social pressures but I dislike the idea that you are completely strawmanning the idea - Religion is an entire worldview by itself, not just a "theory" or "thought" or some social phenomenon - and it should be treated as such if you ever want to contribute something worthwhile to discussions such as this
To the OP.
Its simple. If I were to say... put up a billboard suggesting that all culture born of African American people (or any racial group, take your pick) is horrible. That would be discrimination. It would be okay if I was praising that same culture and asking others to indulge in thier practices.\
I do however agree that both sides of the 'fight' are retarded.
Its simple. If I were to say... put up a billboard suggesting that all culture born of African American people (or any racial group, take your pick) is horrible. That would be discrimination. It would be okay if I was praising that same culture and asking others to indulge in thier practices.\
I do however agree that both sides of the 'fight' are retarded.
I actually agree. I didnt say my theory was justified... Im saying that.. it is the way the world is seen. Politically Correct is complete crap.
I do not think any position concerning the existence of God is naturally tenable. I am of course biased because I am an atheist. I think the idea of God is inferior to other theories of our existence. Hence, I do no not believe in God. I don't consider the existence of God, by any possible argument, to have any sort of viability.
I actually think the trick for society to deal with its problems is to realise what exactly the problems are, and then strategise to form an active plan to combat them. People want to get rid of their problems; religion is just an effective scapegoat for them to do this. If God exists, they can wish away their problems and blame it on that so as to relieve them of the guilt. I think people should stop being so self-conscious and realise there is no guilt involved. People need to learn they are responsible for their actions themselves, and they should not invent an imaginary concept to relieve themselves of this.
I don't know particularly what the right morals are. I can highlight the fact that other people are wrong without necessarily having to be right. It's not that black and white, I agree with you, but as I already mentioned, I don't consider the position of theism tenable (and even deism I have my doubts about).
I don't take religion seriously at all. I just don't concern myself with people whom I think to hold ideas that make no rational sense whatsoever. It's a useless debate and a useless discussion because these people don't want reason, they want to be right at whatever cost for self-interest. Therefore, I put my effort into studying and informing myself, and informing others of all the knowledge whenever possible. If anyone comes up to me and tells me I should do this and that because else, I will just laugh and say "I don't believe in your God. I never have and I never will. Please come up with a rational theory to prove his existence or please go away, because I cannot base my morals on something that irrational." I don't enter discussions with people who are not ready to discuss these problems logically. It is a waste of time.
A worldview is nothing but an extensive theory. I dismiss any theory that is not grounded on logic, has no possbility for peer review, and is not falsifiable. If you are going to base your worldview on a theory that is ostensibly flawed, I can easily deduce that the rest of your worldview is therefore bogus. Some parts may be right, but they are right for the wrong reasons. I want people to be right for the right reasons. I'm not saying I have these right reasons, but I can definitely logically say that theism is wrong. There doesn't have to be a midway. I personally believe atheism is the way forward (though I think you can make a case for agnosticism and a lot of other possible views as well). However, I logically outright reject the idea of a creator God, as that can never be justified.
Atheism does not need this justification considering the burden of proof is on theists. Atheism merely implies the lack of belief. Atheism does not say "God does not exist" per se. It is the natural default position to take. Atheists have no burden of proof.
Hey, one religion, including athiesm, has got to be true. Now if I were an athiest and evolution happened, when I die nothing will happen. If creation occured and there is a God, I am seriously screwed forever.
If I am Christian, the two possibilities are:
1. heaven
2. nothing
Seeing as how the odds are greatly in favor of Christians, I can see why there is so much outrage that the ads might prevent would be Christians.
If I am Christian, the two possibilities are:
1. heaven
2. nothing
Seeing as how the odds are greatly in favor of Christians, I can see why there is so much outrage that the ads might prevent would be Christians.
To add to this, you pretty much won't get into heaven just because you're trying to cover your ass. Apparently you only go to heaven if you are honest in your belief, not just some idiot trying to play the best odds.
From an atheist perspective:
God knows the conditions upon which I will believe in him. Those conditions have not been met, ergo I do not believe.
God created me, being all knowing, knowing implicitly that I would not believe in him and would therefore go to hell. This is pretty cruel for an all loving creature, making me with zero chance of getting into heaven.
These are some of the arguements I consider to be reasonable in favor of godlessness.
Well the it's a pretty good wager if you look at it. Besides, does the lack of religion mean they aren't sure of anything? If they aren't, then why do they have these signs denouncing the existance of God?
The lack of religion doesn't mean anything in particular except they lack a belief in a deity, which is the definition of atheism.
And no, it's a terrible wager, because you are grossly misrepresenting all the possibilities of the nature of God. You are assuming that there are only two tenable positions, the Christian god and atheism. There is an entirely huge possibility that God exists, but he doesn't care, which you are ignoring. And so on and so forth.
just saying...again, crynts
Yes I do agree, I learned Pascal's wager after I became a Christian.
Your statements are equally true, but the outcomes are the same. Nothing would really happen if the God does not care. I could provide possibilities about reincarnation, Muslims, and Jews, but the discussion is mainly about Christians and Athiests.
Calling the wager stupid is like calling free insurance stupid. Being Christian does not mean going to church. Being Christian means accepting Christ. Once accepted, you will never go to hell even if you take it back. (Assuming the bible is correct).
No it doesn't, that is a problem. If God is evil, then nobody goes to heaven, and it doesn't matter either way, so you have no reason to believe in God. The fact that God is evil is not considered in Pascal's Wager.
Free insurance from something I don't even know exists? I'd rather go about making my own insurance instead.
Okay, it's not insurance in the least. If you're whole purpose for being christian is because of the wager, or your faith has anything to do with it, your god will shun you out of heaven for being impure in your love for him. He has standards and doesn't want you loving him for the sole purpose of getting into heaven, he wants you to love him because you love him.
The problem with Pascal's Wager is that it does not account for such scenarios as Islam being the correct religion and Allah punishing you for being a Christian; an infinite similar number of scenarios where it turns out you simply picked the wrong religion, even if you couldn't possibly know about it, and thus punishes you; a God existing who deliberately put very little evidence of his existence and wanted people to not believe in him during this life and punishing people who did; and a flat out evil God existing who will punish anyone and everyone during the after-life. Cumulatively, there's an infinite number of possibilities where people on both sides can come out fine or not, and thus neither side is really better from a chance perspective. Thus, Pascal's Wager being called stupid.
He would be considered Christian, but if he agrees that evolution is possible, then he might as well believe that all the other religions are possible. Seeing as how evolution requires throwing out the first few chapters of Genesis, he could argue that maybe other parts of the bible are not actually true.
Catholics are prone to changing the meaning of the bible to build acceptance. Do athiests accept Ken Miller? Absolutely. Even the Pope, the "Holy Man" never states that evolution is false. In fact he celebrates it.
The Pope and evolution
He specifically states "Evolution exists, but it is not enough to answer the great questions,"
Fun fact: Over 60% of Catholics believe in evolution while less than 30% of Protestant Christians belive in evolution.
The pope also recently said that extraterrestrial life probably exists; his official astronomer went on a wild speculation talking about how even if they were smarter than us, they would still have no original sin because god loves us the most and only we get to carry that burden.
Gotta love that.
Gotta love that.
No it is not considered, but neither of us could have done anything after we die if God is evil.
What doesn't exist? It is insurance for if there is an afterlife giving you the best possible results.
No, I truly do believe in Christ. It has nothing to do with the wager. The wager is just to make athiests look at the big picture.
Yes, but being athiest means getting the worst or the second worst punishment if any religion is true.
Hey, God loves Jesus, right? He died because we did not follow Him when He told us not to eat the fruit. We also blamed the devil for our sin, causing God even more grief. (again assuming the bible is correct) I have no idea how aliens fit into this. They would be in the same category as angels I guess.
That doesn't matter. There would be the same results as if there was no God.
Okay. . . Please show me the table. Anyway, do you account for the maybe 1% that you are seriously screwed forever? If I am Christian and athiesm is true, what good would it do if I was athiest? Hey, I don't care if there is no afterlife. Maybe the suicide bombers who believe in 72 virgins will. . .
I personally do not believe there is sex in heaven.
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