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Pokémon Avalugg
- Thread starter alexwolf
- Start date
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Stall is not a good idea for ice mono at all. Stick with Blizzard Spam + Hail. Even with the weather nerf, offensive is the best shot Ice has at making up for it's awful defensive side.
Any spinner that is weak to stealth rocks is at best, an "alright" spinner.
This is more the along the lines of "it's a back up spinner in case the spinner you use to defend Avalugg from stealth rocks which would turn all those 3HKOs into 2HKOs so it can actually wall like it's supposed to".
Spinning may be a rare niche, but it's certainly not worth using this guy.
Im not saying avalugg is a good spinner but he can work..
I use this guy a lot, and the best set I've used is:
Avalugg w/Leftovers (Sturdy)
-Recover
-Rapid Spin
-Avalanche
-Curse
252 Def, 252 HP
Curse is the pivotal move of this set. I love to switch this thing in on Mega Ttar, Dragonite, Mega Charizard X etc. They see easy setup bait, Ddance up while I curse every turn they Ddance. Then they attack and see their +6 super effective move do ~30% to my Avalugg, and then get ohkoed by an avalanche in retaliation. It's so sweet to see your opponents physical sweeper destroyed by a seemingly harmless physical wall.
Avalugg w/Leftovers (Sturdy)
-Recover
-Rapid Spin
-Avalanche
-Curse
252 Def, 252 HP
Curse is the pivotal move of this set. I love to switch this thing in on Mega Ttar, Dragonite, Mega Charizard X etc. They see easy setup bait, Ddance up while I curse every turn they Ddance. Then they attack and see their +6 super effective move do ~30% to my Avalugg, and then get ohkoed by an avalanche in retaliation. It's so sweet to see your opponents physical sweeper destroyed by a seemingly harmless physical wall.
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Is curse needed? I'm pretty sure Avalanche would have already OHKO Dragonite/Garchomp, 2HKO MCharizard and TTar can just be roared out. Also Rocky Helmet is fun to use against these set up pokes since you already can stall and heal with recover. It almost always forces a switch. How many boosts do you usually get off before having to switch out Avalugg?
Rotosect
Banned deucer.
It's sad to see people automatically dismissing Avalugg's value as a defensive pokemon just because of its type.
I would like to point out that Lugia has a truly horrid defensive type for ubers (SR weakness, many common weaknesses and lack of useful resistances except fighting) but it's still the premier physical wall in that tier thanks to its stats and access to a reliable recovery move; this was true even before it got Multiscale. Correct me f I'm wrong but I think the only unboosted physical attack that OHKO Lugia in ubers is Zekrom's Bolt Strike.
Avalugg is very similiar in OU, if only on the physical side. Even a +1 Flare Blitz from Mega Charizard X isn't a guaranteed OHKO. The metagame right now is leaning on the physical side which works to Avalugg's advantage. I personally run Roar, Recover, Avalanche and EQ on it and I use it just like I would use Lugia in ubers: switch on physical set-up sweepers and either KO or phaze them depending on the match-up.
I don't think Avalugg works well as a spinner, as it has poor matchups with almost every Ghost-type. Instead it's a pokemon that greatly benefits from spin/Defog support from team-mates.
I think it's only real flaw is the vulnerability to status. To make up for that I usually pair it with Florges, who has insane special bulk and access to Aromatherapy so the two complement each other well. Both of them are weak to steel, but it's easy enough to cover with team mates such as Rotom-W or Heatran.
I would like to point out that Lugia has a truly horrid defensive type for ubers (SR weakness, many common weaknesses and lack of useful resistances except fighting) but it's still the premier physical wall in that tier thanks to its stats and access to a reliable recovery move; this was true even before it got Multiscale. Correct me f I'm wrong but I think the only unboosted physical attack that OHKO Lugia in ubers is Zekrom's Bolt Strike.
Avalugg is very similiar in OU, if only on the physical side. Even a +1 Flare Blitz from Mega Charizard X isn't a guaranteed OHKO. The metagame right now is leaning on the physical side which works to Avalugg's advantage. I personally run Roar, Recover, Avalanche and EQ on it and I use it just like I would use Lugia in ubers: switch on physical set-up sweepers and either KO or phaze them depending on the match-up.
I don't think Avalugg works well as a spinner, as it has poor matchups with almost every Ghost-type. Instead it's a pokemon that greatly benefits from spin/Defog support from team-mates.
I think it's only real flaw is the vulnerability to status. To make up for that I usually pair it with Florges, who has insane special bulk and access to Aromatherapy so the two complement each other well. Both of them are weak to steel, but it's easy enough to cover with team mates such as Rotom-W or Heatran.
I agree. People just see physical regice and dismiss it. There are very few physical Pokemon that can deal more than 50% to avalugg and anything dealing less than 50% is easily stalled with recover and leftovers. I have actually used cloyster as a bulky spinner in the past and it has nothing on avalugg (as a spinner for clarification) except for a slight typing advantage.
Most good Ubers players will tell you Lugia is shit and don't use so....
Yes, a lot of people say Avalugg is a shit physical wall because of its typing, but thats because it is. It has no real resistances to switch in on and his Stealth Rock weakness turns many of the 3HKOs he could survive into 2HKOs he cannot.
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A look on the Lugia guide tells me that Lugia not only possess exceptional defensive stats, but also a nice speed to outspeed quite a lot of threats who does not invest their speed, which speaks priority heal. On the other hand, Lugia also have immunity to also those spikes despite double SR weakness, while Avalugg doesn't. And Lugia has a vast movepool to check things outside dragon.
Also, I think its offensive present may have been overstated, Ice alone is more of a coverage typing than an effective STAB, and while it has EQ, the fact that it is unSTABed may turn out to be too important to forget. The possiblity of being ruined by random mixed attacker also worries me a lot, as almost any Draco Meteor is likely to take away some 70% health with ease, combined with SR and it would be a OHKO.
While it would definitely make a solid UU candidate(possibly BL), in OU, sorry but it is to niche to be effective, if the meta is less SR-centered than it may make lower OU, which does not seem so.
i feel like some of this is true because ( yeah I know I'm pushing it mainly cause I've used it and it works) but an Iron Defense set really is useable I mean eat can can easily eat Tech boosted BPs from Scizor and probably Iron heads and fire punch from Physical Jirochi's but thats all i can think of off top of my head
-----photofluid just correcting you Lugis has access to Dragon pulse and and Dragon Rush
This is a calc that deserves mentioning:
+6 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 396-468 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Looks like great, right? But:
+4 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It NEEDS a +6 to even come close to OHKOing Avalugg. This alone is just, astounding. Like, I'm stunned.
+6 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 396-468 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Looks like great, right? But:
+4 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It NEEDS a +6 to even come close to OHKOing Avalugg. This alone is just, astounding. Like, I'm stunned.
I don't get this. SR-centered warrants more use of Spinners. Avalugg is a spinner. Wut. Why would it be used MORE if there was less SR? Sure, it's weak to SR but it's proactive as it spins Rocks away, remedying its weakness and supporting the team, while Recover gives it longevity and heals of SR damage.
It's already been touched on, though. Sure he's insanely tough, but being weak to SR is not a desirable trait in a spinner since by definition they tend to switch into hazards. In a lot of cases, he's just not tough enough to take SR damage, a hit on the switch, and a hit on the turn he intends to spin because his speed is very low.
What? I just posted that, not aimed at anyone lol.
I mean, the SR is just the last straw on the camel, currently what Avalugg does best is not a spinner but as a tank, and SR severely limites its ability to accomplish its job. Let's not forget Avalugg has such a low speed that it has to tank an extra hit before doing anything. The same applies to spinning.
And as a spinner, it don't really threatens the common spin blockers, which also happens to often carry WoW and build physical defensive these days to counter things like Lucario (and special attacker being ways less common). Yes, I know it got crunch.
A physical tank with the only weakness being ice SHOULD wall the meta like anything.
Avalugg has always performed decently for me, as well as any other spinner or better on defensively oriented teams. That physical bulk is just exceptional and makes it relatively easy to find spinning opportunities. The special weakness and typing haven't been major concerns; his problem is the same as all spinners, that you're constantly behind the play and trying to catch up. If you rely on spinning, you're at a disadvantage, and even more so in this generation now that enemy Defog users can eliminate any hazard advantage you manage to accumulate.
Oh and I still can't believe he doesn't get Icicle Crash.
Oh and I still can't believe he doesn't get Icicle Crash.
Avalugg is pretty slow anyway, so Avalanche is perfectly fine move, as he'll pretty much always move after target he's supposed to check/counter (like Garchomp) so I don't think he misses it that much.
And honestly I'd rather use Rapid Spin or Defog support instead of using him for it, because he can handle such strong attack without SR like CB Adamant Outrage Haxorus (not even 2HKO), etc.
Let's be real though, if you're not using Rapid Spin you shouldn't be using Avalugg. While it does check or counter a vast amount of stuff, you can generally handle the same threats just as or nearly as well using other physically oriented walls which can actually do something while in play, like Skarmory. The only Pokemon I can think of in this metagame which exist as pure walls are Gyarados and the blobs (and to a lesser extent Quag); and they're only used because they provide defensive coverage against certain threats that few other walls can.
Seriously if GF by any mean want to balance different types, the distribution of >=80 BP moves should be the first step, not the fairies.
Well if Kyurem manage to get it than it would instantly say bye to OU, hopefully it along with the like of power gem becomes a Tutor move in Z
But for Avalugg, I truly think Avalugg is okay with Avalanche, as it is never supposed to eat things like WoW but instead go head to head against powerful physical attackers excluding fight type perhaps. However, SR simply kicks his ass so hard. For the same reason I don't think it is a good spinner, as he only faces more difficulty by trying to spin after taking 2 hits for at least neutral damage and 1/4 health off with the switch in itself.
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