Azelf (Lead v2)

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shrang

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This is rather obvious and simple lead set, and it's not up on the Azelf page, so I guess someone needs to do it.

Status: Posted, check me everyone!!

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/azelf

[SET]
name: Lead V2
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Taunt
move 3: Explosion
move 4: U-Turn
item: Focus Sash
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This lead allows Azelf to act both as a scout and a suicide lead. Since many leads like Metagross and Machamp use anti-lead sets just to stop Azelf from setting up Stealth Rock and Exploding, Azelf needs to adapt to the different anti-leads. Against dangerous leads like Metagross, Azelf can just U-Turn away to a counter. Against leads that cannot stop Azelf from doing what it normally does (Setting up Stealth Rock and Exploding), Azelf can just go about its business.</p>

<p>Since Azelf is being used as a lead, Stealth Rock is obviously the key move of the set, and Azelf is usually able to lay down Stealth Rock for the team. Taunt allows Azelf to shut down slower leads like Swampert, while setting up Stealth Rock itself. Explosion allows Azelf to take out an opposing Pokemon after it has done what it is supposed to do. U-Turn is what differentiates this set with other lead sets. It can allow Azelf to do multiple things. Against fast, frail leads like Aerodactyl and other Azelf, U-Turn can be used to break the opposing lead's Focus Sash, opening them up to a kill next turn. Against dangerous leads like Metagross and Machamp, Azelf can U-Turn out to safety so it can set up Stealth Rock later.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The HP EVs allow Azelf to be as bulky as possible without compromising Speed. Max speed is still used so Azelf can speed tie with other Azelfs to Taunt them and stop them setting up Stealth Rock. It also allows Azelf to speed tie with anti-lead Starmie and hopefully U-Turning out to a counter to take Starmie's Hydro Pump or Surf before getting hit. Focus Sash is the preferred item, since Azelf is still very frail.</p>

<p>When using this set, it is very important to play this differently from the standard lead set. Since suicide lead Azelfs are extremely predictable (Taunt, Stealth Rock and Explode), many players can easily switch in a Ghost-type like Rotom-A or Gengar to absorb the Explosion and make the Azelf user waste a Pokemon. Due to this, it is usually a better idea to U-Turn away after you set up Stealth Rock, even if Azelf would be KO'd by Stealth Rock after coming back in. This way, it allows Azelf to scout out the opponent's team and at worst be death fodder later in the game. Explosion is also not a move that should be used readily. A well-timed Explosion on a wall or a dangerous sweeper can easily change the fate of the match. This is why it is usually better to Explode later in the game when more information about the opponent's team has been revealed. Azelf can also come in as a Stall-breaker later in the game if it needs to, since it can easily come in on a wall, Taunt it and U-Turn to a counter.</p>

<p>Since Azelf is usually very successful at setting up Stealth Rock, it should be used alongside powerful sweepers that can take advantage of it. Potent OU sweepers like Dragon Dance Gyarados, Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Swords Dance Lucario and Nasty Plot Infernape all appreciate the extra residue damage that turns much needed 2HKOs into OHKOs or 3HKOs into 2HKOs. Stealth Rock also reduces the staying power of common OU walls and tanks like Gyarados and Zapdos. Since lead Azelf is usually a standalone Pokemon that is usually quite successful in what it does, it does not need significant team support as such. However, leads such as Choice Scarf Jirachi can give Azelf trouble by flinching it to death with Iron Head. Magnezone can easily switch into Jirachi and trap it with its 4x resistance to Iron Head and either set up Substitutes or KO Jirachi. Other leads that could potentially give Azelf trouble are sleep leads with Choice Scarf, the most common being Breloom and Smeargle. Sleep absorbers like RestTalk Rotom-A are also good partners for Azelf.</p>
 
ete asked me to post why this was moved (he is one post away from 3000).

All new sets, regardless of whether or not they are "controversial," should be posted in the Quality Control forum to be approved by the Quality Control Team.
 
Well, I believe that slashing U-turn over Psychic and Fire Blast, plus mentioning on AC the optional spread of 252 HP / 252 Spe are the right things to do in the current analysis of Azelf. Also, if you're making that "drastic" change of EVs then I think you should explain (with calcs and some particular situations) what are the outcomes of not using a full offensive spread. I don't really like the idea of having another Lead Azelf set on-site when the differences between them are just a pair. The only thing I could say that differentiates them from each other is the way they should operate on a team, which can be perfectly detailed on AC as I mentioned before.

With that being said, I can't support this set having its own space on the Strategy Pokedex.
 
Yeah, like I said in the other new Azelf lead QC thread, this merits an AC mention at best. In fact, I would say that this set is inferior to the other set, because there's almost no need for a Focus Sash if you're running 252 HP. You're better off with Colbur berry like the other topic said. Since this is exactly the same set, but inferior, I almost want to close it right now, but I'll wait for another QC member to weigh in.
 
Out of curiosity, is this set more effective than the standard for you? Even if the defensive spread isn't ideal, placing 252 evs into attack instead of HP could in theory fix that.

I ask because of a similar concern with heatproof bronzong, where in the current metagame heatproofing my bronzong has enabled me to stay in on heatrans and infernape that would have 1hko's me otherwise, which ended up giving me a turn of set up normal bronzong wouldn't have.

Of course, my bronzong doesn't have the same issues with stealth rock as a u-turned azelf, so I was wondering about how often were you stuck with entry hazards and an azelf with 1 hp in reserve. Also, is u-turn a better 4th move than psychic in your experience? At the very least, it appears to be an interesting alternative moveset to standard Azelf.
 
So essentially this is the same lead set but with max HP, and U-turn over the other attacks? I'd really just run max attack for a more powerful explosion and u-turn if you're really going to run Focus Sash on this thing, I don't think those evs turn any 2hkos into 3 that's worth mentioning here.

I'd also agree with Phil that it's AC material, the only thing that really differentiates itself from the current lead set is probably just the U-turning part. I don't think that's significant enough to warrant its own set. Probably a paragraph is good enough to consider U-turn lead Azelf, as it does have some value, such as u-turning away from opposing azelf leads as they attempt a Taunt or switch to scarftar, etc, or pounding on Celebi leads or their switch ins.

Edit: this has a no from me right now, sorry for not making that clear!
 
For clarification:

<+plus-> it was a rejection
<+plus-> if i didn't make that clear sorry

So yeah, that's 3, moving this to Locked
 
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