Back in the day.....

[Dormin]

Introduction:

Well, I'm in a bit of a slump. I've been trying to build a reliable, bulky offensive team, but there are always cracks that I can't seem to fix without creating more. So, I figured I'd go back and try to rebuild my old #1 team from back in the Garchomp days. It has been proving rather difficult, but this is where ya'll come in. Plus, I figure some people might want to see it if only for nostalgia. Soooooo here goes nothing.....

At a glance: Strategic Sweeping

This team's ultimate goal was, of course, to secure a Garchomp sweep. The ace of this team was by far Choice Scarf Tyranitar, who could take out stuff like Infernape by surprise. With Maggy taking care of the Skarmorys and the Bronzongs, Garchomp swept around 90% of the time. As for revamps, I've tried Mamoswine over Garchomp, but it has not been working as well as I had hoped, even with Trick Iron Ball on Bronzong for Rotoms. Anyway, here is the team itself.

In-depth look

Bronzong @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Relaxed (+ Defense, - Speed)
EVs: 252 HP | 164 Atk | 92 SpDef

` Explosion
` Stealth Rock
` Gyro Ball
` Hypnosis
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Comments & Suggestions:
Bronzong used to be the most used lead for a reason. It provided enough bulk to almost guarantee that Stealth Rock would get up, and it could come back later in the game to counter Garchomp. Lum Berry was for the plethora of other Bronzong and sleep leads that populated the metagame back when Hypnosis was at its glorious 70% accuracy.

The EVs are pretty standard, with a rather large investment in attack for the boost to Gyro Ball and Explosion. It was pretty necessary back when Garchomp was around, but not so much anymore.

As far as revamping it goes, I'm open to any lead, but I think Bronzong is still a solid choice. I've tried both Occa Berry and Trick Iron Ball with varying degrees of success. Not too sure on this position.

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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Bold (+ Defense, - Attack)
EVs: 252 HP | 220 Def | 40 Spe

` Grass Knot
` Thunder Wave
` Recover
` Reflect
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
Celebi has always been one of my favorite defensive pokemon. This was my obligatory Gyarados counter, and Reflect provided a great amount of utility to escape Pursuit and take on Garchomp. The rest of the set is standard, but I'd like to mention that Thunder Wave was much more of a surprise back then.

I think this a rather solid spot on the team, but the moveset could probably be switched around. I think HP Fire could fit over maybe Thunder Wave or Reflect, but otherwise this should stay the same I think.

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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Adamant (+ Attack, - Special Attack)
EVs: 212 HP | 196 Def | 100 SpDef

` Avalanche
` Waterfall
` Rest
` Sleep Talk
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
Resttalk Gyarados was my all-purpose counter to.....a lot. My first switch in to Garchomp, it did a remarkable job at countering anything with the dragon or fighting typing. The EVs are kind of rough because this was a new set that was being pioneered back when I started using it.

I think this slot could be used to help advance whatever sweeper is decided to replace swampert. As of now I'm not sure it will be as useful as it was in the past, though I could be wrong.

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Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet PullSp
Nature: Modest (+ Special Attack, - Attack)
EVs: 156 HP | 150 SpA | 204 Spe

` Thunderbolt
` Hidden Power Ice
` Substitute
` Magnet Rise
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
Half of the Maggy+Dragon combo that is still popular today, Magnezone was invaluable for killing Garchomp enemy #1: Bronzong. It almost always gave me a strong foothold at the start of every match with all the Bronzong leads, and the pseudo BoltBeam could tear apart offensive teams.

The EVs were specialized to outspeed CM Suicune and 2hko after one CM. The rest was thrown in HP for the heck of it. This spread is obviously outdated, and probably wouldn't work too well in today's metagame.

I've always been a fan of Magnezone, and there is no better time to use it with the swarm of Scizors buzzing around every team. I think this team should still utilize Magnezone to secure a sweep, but with a different set.

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Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
Nature: Hasty (+ Speed, - Defense)
EVs: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe

` Crunch
` Stone Edge
` Earthquake
` Ice Beam
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
Quite frankly, I attribute most of this team's success to this set right here. Choice Scarf Tyranitar is awesome for taking out its common counters. Infernape and Lucario are the primary ones, but Starmie and Azelf can be lured into staying in due to "pursuit" and then dieing before they could Hydro Pump or Explode.

I chose a Hasty nature to retain Tyranitar's special defensive presense, and also give a little power to Ice Beam. I had Ice Beam back then for Gliscor, who commonly switched into CBtar, but I don't think it would be as effective now.

I'd like to retain this beast, but it is probably this nostalgia that is preventing me from truly revamping this team.

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Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature: Jolly (+ Speed, - Special Attack)
EVs: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe

` Swords Dance
` Fire Fang
` Earthquake
` Outrage
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
Man do I miss this guy. Building a team around Garchomp has been the most successful strategy I've ever used in my time battling competitively. I kept Fire Fang on the set to hit Skarmory, which started to carry a Shed Shell more and more often as time passed. The rest is just the bread and butter YacheChomp. SD Outrage kills.

This spot obviously needs to be replaced by another sweeper. I tried Mamoswine for awhile, but I don't think its fast enough to sweep as much as I'd like. I'm been struggling with this spot for awhile, and this is where I'd appreciate the most input.

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Closing Thoughts

This team is obviously outdated, but I don't think it is out of reach of a revamp. I'd like to focus the team around another sweeper, and I'm open to any ideas you may have. It would be really great if Garchomp went OU again--that would make things a lot easier. In the meantime, please rate/hate/reminisce. Thanks in advance!!

Threat List
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"It seems like DP will be, more than anything else, about having a certain strategy, planning, and executing that strategy. There is simply too much to counter in too few pokemon and moves; at this point one can never hope to be able to counter everything."

^^quoted for truth.

PS: This is my first RMT without Charizard. Credit to Unholy Calamity for the format.

 

[Reaver12]

Well, with Chomp banned (probably for good) the only real replacement I see for him would have to be MixMence. He hits the same types for SE damage and has proven to be one of the most threatening sweepers in the metagame today.

 

[Sandal8]

You could give Flygon a try for the heck of it, but I don't think 100 Base Attack will hurt much... all that leaves is Salamence.

On your Bronzong, I'd run Heatproof over Levitate. As a lead, Spikes certainly won't be down to prove that you don't have Levitate, and Heatproof helps to negate lead Azelf's Fire Blast. Lead Metagross would likely assume that you have Levitate and likely set up SR and switch out. Heatproof also gives you some insurance against Leadtran, although I've never seen one.

Celebi is potential U-Turn bait; while Reflect helps to dampen the blow, consider running Hidden Power Fire on Celebi; when Scizor comes out, you can nail it, while also removing a heavy check on your Garchomp/Dragon sweeper. Also, as a Gyara counter, Reflect + 2 Grass Knots is the same as 2 Grass Knots, because you still take the same amount of damage, assuming Gyara outruns you. So, I'd drop Reflect, because Celebi is bullky enough to take on Tyranitar and Scizor's Pursuit.

Gyarados loosk good, but are you sure it gets natural cure as an abililty? I'd keep Gyara > Swampert, helps with Breloom.

Your last 3 team members look solid; I guess you'll drop Garchomp for either Mamoswine, Salamence, or maybe Gliscor...

Good luck.

 

[Raikaria]

No, the date on the OP says 2009. Anyway, this could be a suspect Team, or the person could be anticipating Chomp returning to OU, with the suspect tests nearby.

Anyway, this team is being rated for improvements, any team can be improved, even if it's not actually able to be used anymore, due to tier shifts.

 

[Il Mostro]

Yea i just realised after posting.
Guess i need to open my eyes wide before doing anything.

Anyways , solid team with no major weaknesses , except when your ace is used against you ( Garchomp ) ( Sub Salac + Dragon Claw EQ ). Although Bronzong works well against it , i doubt it will last long without any recovery moves.

 

[The Plant]

I'm pretty sure the advice he wanted was about how to update this team for the new metagame. Obviously replacing garchomp and then making any other needed changes.

I would replace garchomp with salamence. Most people are counting on bullet punch to take out mence so if you feel confidant you can catch scizor DDmence should sweep alot.

 

[Star Shaper]

is this for Ubers, or just pure, lovely nostaliga?

If you would have read the entire post instead of just stopping at Garchomp's sprite, you wouldn't have pissed all over this thread.

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Nice team.

As for your Magnezone, I'm using this neat little set;
Magnezone@Leftovers
Magnet Pull
Modest
228 HP/164 SpA/116 Spe
• Thunderbolt
• Hidden Power [Ice]/Flash Cannon
• Charge Beam/Magnet Rise
• Substitute

If you catch those stupid Choiced Steel pokemon using a steel move, you effectively 2hko whatever comes in that isn't Blissey afterwards using Charge Beam. Magnet Rise is for Forretress and the like. EVs hit 338 HP, which let you survive 4 Seismic Tosses, if you happen to come up against that Blissey, and make 5 Substitutes with Leftovers. It also helps you take those ridiculous DD LO Outrages and not have to come in at perfect HP :P You outspeed Vaporeon by two points, which is ahead of Skarmory by (I think) eight points. This means you're faster than standard CB Tar and you get a Flash Cannon in if you're using it.

I have no idea what to suggest to replace Garchomp; I usually don't play offensively. If I were to suggest something, use Lucario. If CB Scizor comes in on Celebi (Which it will) and uses Pursuit, you essentially get a free set up.
Also, TTar takes out most of, or at least severely weaknes, Lucario's counters. This does grant you some nasty weaknesses to Fire/Ground/Fighting ><.

As for Gyarados, take one EV off of SpD and add it to HP. This allows you to switch into SR an additional time.

I think Bronzong is a poor lead choice for a Metagame that hits so hard. It has trouble taking hits it doesn't resist, and it really doesn't do much back either. I would use a Physical Swampert.
Swampert@Leftovers
Torrent
Impish
240 HP/216 Def/52 Atk
• Waterfall/Roar
• Avalanche
• Earthquake
• Stealth Rock

It takes those Fire attacks, easily takes most ground attacks, and can take an unboosted Close Combat. It gets SR up on most leads. Physical over mixed because you want to actually hurt Latias. Waterfall lets you beat Mamoswine, but Roar is always nice to have on a team, especially with the idiotic Baton Pass teams lately.

I'm still trying to think what would work better in that Lucario spot. I'll post again if I think of something different. That's just my first thought.

 

[tab]

Sup Dormin.

Obviously, the main thing that you want to do here is make a similar team that keeps a lot of the character of this one, which is why I'm not just going to say "oh use Salamence, it's a dragon-type too". As I mentioned on IRC, Jolly DD Tyranitar with Crunch/SE/Fire Punch would be a nice replacement as a fairly bulky sweeper that can inflict some damage earlier on if necesarry. Babiri is the usual choice, but seeing as you have a Magnezone, Leftovers might be worth a look to help Tyranitar stick around.

Bronzong isn't really a great lead anymore imo, you could try going with a Swampert instead, which is a pretty safe choice of lead for a team like this, and checks a few pokemon that you're going to struggle against otherwise.

On Gyara, you should be using Impish with 252 HP/248 Def/8 Spe, with the extra Speed to get the advantage in speed ties. I'd probably go with DD over Avalanche, seeing as the only dragons you're going to be bothered about are Mence and Kingdra, which are covered by Scizor (Metagross) and Celebi nicely. DD gives you a second bulky sweeper, which will probably be pretty useful, as DDTar isn't going to be wrecking teams quite as often as Chomp did.
Alternatively, a CursePert would be worth testing, seeing as you currently have no safe way of dealing with Rotom, especially without ScarfTar, which is a pretty big weakness to have. Seeing as you don't have a spinner, CursePert might even end up being a better all-round choice than Gyarados. It does open up a bit of a MixApe/Lucario weakness, but you still have your lead and ScarfTar replacement to deal with that.
If you use CursePert, you're going to have to find a different replacement for Bronzong, but I'm sure you can work something out (or just keep Bronzong).

Going with DDTar obviously means that you're going to have to replace ScarfTar, which is something I wanted to avoid, but I really can't think of a good sweeper that might give a similar feel to the team apart from DDTar. Assuming you go with lead Swampert, you're going to want to use another steel-type. Awfully generic as it is, CB Scizor would work pretty nicely, covering pokemon like Mence and Latias, against which you'd have been relying on Bronzong. You also get U-turn, which is always nice to have.
Otherwise, something like Scarf Metagross might be worth a try, as it works pretty similarly to ScarfTar, and has all of the benefits that you listed. Heatran would work well too, especially if you go with a Swampert lead or CursePert, as Celebi/Heatran/Swampert is a great defensive core. Either of the Scarfed steel-types would be a pretty good choice if you use CursePert, as they cover the Lucario/MixApe weakness that you're opening up.

Celebi should use HP Fire over Reflect, and CM instead of Thunder Wave might be worth a look, although either works. You've currently go 512 EVs, it should be 36 in Speed.

With Magnezone, pretty much any of the sets will work, but I'd either stick with SubRise, or go with a Scarf set, as they'll probably be the most effective here.

That's pretty much all I can come up with that doesn't ruin the feel of the team. It should be pretty solid with a DDTar, but I guess it depends whether it feels right. Hope this helps out.

 

[Warthog]

Test standard Luke over Chomp. I probably would update the lead with something more potent like Jirachi.. although the Iron Ball set sounds like it would be both fun and surprising.

 

[Duskie]

I have a very similar team, and the only thing i would suggest as a replacement for chomp would be curse pert.You would have to shift a couple things around tho to make it easier to get rid of Vaporeon as it walls your entire team as it did mine.

 

[Cherub Agent]

nostalgia lol... i wish it were the good old days too now...
anyway nice team, id recommend a different lead over bronzong, probably mixpert, and luke or DDmence over chomp

 

[Cshadow]

I second/third the swampert suggestion, but I think you should use a MixPert with Stealth Rock/Roar/Hydro Pump(or Surf, or Ice Beam, all good choices, just pick the one that fits your preference)/Earthquake. That way you can get SR up and switch out against staus leads for Gyarados to absorb the sleep, and bring in a counter. He can also have Gyarados absord the sleep, then re bring him out to roar out/break Baton Pass chains.

I like the Mag set as it is, and Charge beam can help you rip through opponents that switch in anyways with the Sp.Atk boosts.

I second what tab said about DDtar and Metagross, should be an interesting switch. If you really wan't to keep ScarfTar, you could always try Agiligross with a Life orb in the last spot. But adding Metagross or luke would give you a triple weakness, and you have one resistance and 1 immunity, which may not have really easy times switching into some threats.