ORAS UU Balance Team feat. double W&W

[Saltytears]

Hi my dears raters. My name is Saltyness UU Tier ig im an old player when the UU Metagame was full of Scolipede and Hitmonlee unburden i came back recently lf i do count 1week ago, and this is my first RMT thread. This Team is a result of the tought of the UU channel chat and mine , thanks to them , im actually around 1450-1500 on the ladder with 70.3GXE on the ladder while testing few things probably gonna do a tryhard run one day while just playing it , not the best player or the worst either , but i think im doing well overall^_^


There the team and the analysis (i actually hope you do forgive me for my poor english , im not an english nativ guys :p) :

Yo Moma Fat (Snorlax) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam
- Rest

Actually common Curselax Set , team's one biggest win condition , Tick fat for the bulk tanking Sp well , Body slam over return for the hax because im not lacking of pur damage , doing well in pair with the next pokemon .

The pet you throw in WC (Krookodile) @ Earth/Dread Plate/Life orbe if running Giglar
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock/Taunt over rock if played with the Giglar variant proposed by Christo The gr8

One top tier pokemon of UU"s tier , putting rock on the field , best ghost trapper in the tier , Do the job for setting up Curselax after getting down ghost , Earth Plate or Dread one but i actually run the earth one since i use Eq a lot , needed a V-Switch immunity too and an Mampharos "counter" since i run Mblastoise so i went for our little friend Krookodile .

Spin to death (Blastoise) @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 184 HP / 252 SpA / 72 Spe or 236 HP / 152 SpA / 120 Spe for outspeeding more thing such Suicune + Roar
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere/Ice beam (yo shaymin)
- Scald /Hydro pump
- Rapid Spin
You can add a roar too

A spinner/defoger was needed , i went for MBlastoise great pokemon and M-evolution overall , let"s speak about the set , I do run Scald over hydro pump becauseof miss and the hax , Ice beam because M-aero is the biggest threat of the team and not letting chesnaught setting up on him while taking down Dragon pokemon like mence and hydreigon adding the fact im not suffering from not having fire damage .

Im annoying (Whimsicott) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Stun Spore/U-Turn
- Leech Seed
- Encore

My prefered pokemon of UU tier so far , im in love with this guy , checking so much thing in the actual meta because of his double type and the encore trap , Moonblast AND Giga drain i do not like Leech Seed because of the switch while running both of them sometimes do surprise the opponentb (hi swampert roar cune, vaporeon) , Stun spore + Curselax"s body slam do the job .

Lets the dog out (Entei) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Flare Blitz

I needed a priority user & something who always hurts so we have Entei in this slot , do got ride of Chandelure who stop curselax to setting up and help if Krook not that healthy , common Choice Band Set nothing to add . AH there a thing to add it"s a fairy type check <3

@Lttm (Weezing) @ Black Sludge (High five for @Lttm who gaved me the idea )
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes/Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split/Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower

My team was lacking of ground resist for me since i do not like getting my Whim getting Knocked off by a Krook when i was switching while being afraid of an earthquake same for mamoswine , this thing beat Krook ,Mbeedrill SD thing and Gtr do not like take a Will-O-Wisp .

/calc

We have flamethrower for 3HKO Thick fat mamoswine after T-spike (4 SpA Weezing Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Thick Fat Mamoswine: 96-114 (26.7 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after poison damage)Wisp it is still the best choice and 2HKO his oblivious version .
Does hit a lot of thing , Foretress: 4 SpA Weezing Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 340-404 (96 - 114.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO , and for the 244SpD version : 4 SpA Weezing Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 244 SpD Forretress: 248-296 (70 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Chesnaught : 4 SpA Weezing Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 146-172 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery and poison damage , Rocky Helmet -> 4 SpA Weezing Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 146-172 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after poison damage .
Can Hit roserade sometimes on a wisp switch or just 4HKO it on flamethrow or 3 if rocks : 4 SpA Weezing Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Roserade: 80-96 (24.6 - 29.6%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery and burn damage
Heracross : 4 SpA Weezing Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 120-142 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO ,
Mega-Agrron : SpA Weezing Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 90-106 (26.1 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage
0 Atk burned Mega Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 54-65 (16.1 - 19.4%) -- possible 7HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Probably hit more pokemon but im too lazy to search sorry >.<

There few add that can be made :

Team w/ Suggestions

(over Whim)
Rotom-Mow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Trick

Actually helping for M-Aero and Suicune from :Shiba

(over Weezing)
Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Roost

Making Krook Taunt LO Pursuit for catching ghosts more easier , do stall M-Aero who were a threat for the team with Toxic+Roost ,
adding one more Volt Switch immune, keep weezing ground immunity too + more resistance to fighting type .

For the list of threats i do not have the full list if there are more feel free to tell me please ,) :

Threats

That godamn hurts , check entei so well and Whim too ,but still don't love being shocked or burned by Weezing wisp

(the roar version , i can't setup Curselax and do check/counter a lof of thing in my team , or im a bad player probably the case <3 )

Yeah Curselax is a threat while having one in the team , hit us pretty hard after being +1 , have to do a Curselax war or to encore trap him with Whim

I hope i did enough explanations , i still can add more of them and for replay i do not have some in the pocket but if i do a tryhard run i can bring some .


Sample: http://pastebin.com/XGueHjN6

If there any improvement or any bad things to say , i"ll glady listen to them :)

As yours keyboards tell the sentence !

 

[Christo]

Hey Saltytears I like your team! I am a big fan of the Snorlax + Pursuit Krook combo. Overall, it looks like a solid bulky offense team with most of its bases covered. I just have a few suggestions that I think will better this team as a whole.

I have a few basic changes for you to consider. My first suggestion is Aura Sphere > Ice Beam on Blastoise. I think Aura Sphere will be better coverage for you on this team. In your description, you say you have Ice Beam for M Aero, although a stab Hydro Pump/Scald is supper Effective and would do more anyway. I can see it would be nice for opposing Whimsicott, but I feel like Entei is a pretty free switch in anyway. I think Aura Sphere is nice for this team because you lose to opposing Snorlax, as well as luring in Empoleon so your Snorlax can sweep late game. A quick suggestion is too run 4 EVs in Speed on Snorlax. This will let you outspeed other Snorlax if it came down to a Snorlax vs. Snorlax battle.

My next suggestion is U Turn > Giga Drain on Whimsicott. U Turn + Encore go hand and hand and are needed on most Whimsicott sets. Giga Drain does not do you too much other than for Mega Swampert(Swampert would switch out, anyway). The reason U-Turn is so good with Encore is because after you use Encore on a pokemon using a set-up move or Hazards, they are forced to switch, giving you free momentum. I also think you need to go for Leech Seed > Stun Spore on Whimsicott. This is your only way to solidly beat a Roar Suicune. You would need to Encore a Calm Mind and Leech Seed it until it dies. Without this change, Suicune wins with no effort.

My final suggestion is to change to Toxic + Stealth Rock Gligar > Weezing and Life Orb Taunt Krookodile. Gligar with Toxic helps as a more consistent fighting resist as well as keeping a ground immunity. With Weezing on the team, Mega Aerodactyl becomes a huge threat. Toxic+Roost can easily stall it out. If it ends up being Taunt Aero, that usually means it is a bulkier spread that Blastoise can handle. Offensive taunt Aero is something you are going to have to live with as a threat to your team. I think a Taunt+ 3 attacks Krookodile would work great here. You lacked a solid Stall Breaker and because I provided you Stealth Rock on Gligar, this set would be the perfect fit. Also, a Life Orb Pursuit can handle trapping Ghosts far better than an Earth Plate variant.

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Roost

Krookodile @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

Hope you try out these changes and you let me know what you think about them, good luck! Oh and before I go, to address the Snorlax issue I believe Aura Sphere Blastoise + Encore Whims+ Taunt Krookodile can handle it.

 

[jjoshcja]

So looking at your teambuilding you seem to have an insanely defensive mindset, you just went, FWG core, lax+ pursuit, Oh god weezing save me from mamo. The result was a pretty standard team with the fun inclusion of personified carbon monoxide. That said the team itself is surprisingly stable and is a pretty ok clericless balance team.

Honestly you could just continue to use the team as is with leach seeds > giga drain on whimsi and Speed creep for suicune with roar on mstoise, the passive recovery would really help whimsi sustain longer and and can provide a wincon vs last mon curselax or suicune with encore. The roarcune weakness is annoying but you can play around it by scouting suicune sets as aggressively as possible and running roar on mstoise. You'll just have to live with the maero weakness though, there's really no quick bandage for taunt or hone claws variants of maero available that do not open up more weaknesses than they fix within this core.


I can see the current build enjoying a reasonable degree of success. You'd have fun with the tier and the flaws on the team are both minor enough to play around and deep seated enough to require a full rebuild that would honestly do more harm than good for a while. If you're willing to take that risk and push this team forward, you seem like the guy to enjoy a DIY semi-stall rebuild centered around curse gastrodon. Just some food for thought.

 

[Shiba]

Hey man, cool looking team you have here. It's cool to see Weezing being used since it's a kind of underrated pokemon in UU, but it has great typing + Levitate. But anyway, I'd like to recommend a few things that could help this team out.

• So first off, I'd like to second Christo's suggestion of running Aura Sphere > Ice Beam on Blastoise. This provides you with great coverage to hit the fat normals (Snorlax, P2, etc.) in the tier and some other threats harder, like Hydreigon. As Christo also said, I know hitting grass types like Shaymin and Whimsicott but I feel like other members of the team can help out with those mons with ease.
• Secondly, I'd actually like to recommend Rotom-Mow in place of Whimsicott. With a very strong STAB Leaf Storm and Thunderbolt, this helps cover some of the biggest threats on this team, (Like you listed) like Suicune and Aerodactyl. I'd recommend a scarf set, because it outspeeds Jolly Max Speed Aerodactyl. Also, Trick can help cripple switchins, the biggest threat to this team being a Suicune or Snorlax. I'd recommend using a moveset like this.
  
  
  
  Rotom-Mow @ Choice Scarf
  Ability: Levitate
  EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
  Timid Nature
  IVs: 0 Atk
  - Leaf Storm
  - Thunderbolt
  - Volt Switch
  - Trick
  
  
  
• Lastly, I'd recommend trying to fit Sludge Bomb on Weezing over Toxic Spikes or Pain Split. I get that the hazards are nice, but I feel as though defoggers and grounded poison types (Beedrill, Nido, etc) are too common in the tier. Sludge Bomb also helps deal with some fairies a little bit better, with a high chance of poisoning (what T-Spikes does) them as well as a very strong 90 BP STAB move.

But anyway, I still think this is a very solid team and I hope you consider my recommendations. Good luck with your team!

 

[Saltytears]

Appreciate yours answers , i changed thing who needed to be done and was obvious thanks to you <3

I actually not tried everything in ladder yet (Rotom for being more accurate , i did not encountered any M-Aero in a while , more like 90% of stall team , so some Suicune and milotic and Whim with leech kinda helped a lot ) .
Gilgar was nice but overall i do love how much Weezing "sweep" thing with flamethrow and wisp (i remember a game against one of Sspparrow"s HO team he did rekt it alone and closing the match wisping his M-aero Kappa)

 

[Vapo]

Hey Saltytears, and welcome to Smogon! This is a pretty solid team with an interesting twist. Weezing is a very niche pokemon that does seem to fit alright on your team. You've already gotten some great suggestions in this thread, but I'd like to add one more thing:

• Your team, in its current state, struggles quite a bit with Curselax. While Mega Blastoise can 3HKO it with Aura Sphere, if it gets to +1 it can beat pretty much everything else on your team. You basically have to rely on Whimsicott switching in on a Curse and encoring it (provided they don't just switch out) or a Curse war with your Snorlax to deal with it, and neither of those scenarios seem like a reliable way to manage a top tier threat. I believe changing Entei -> SD Infernape is probably the easiest change you can make to your team to allow you to more reliably KO Curselax. I would run a moveset of Swords Dance / Close Combat / Flare Blitz / Mach Punch with a Life Orb. Infernape operates pretty similarly to Entei, and both threaten similar things, but Infernape possesses the ability to deal huge chunks of damage to Snorlax (having an 81.3% chance to OHKO it from full), while Entei is set up fodder. With Infernape, you still retain decently powerful priority, and if you get to +2 you can OHKO pokemon that may try to revenge kill you, including Scarf Mienshao and Hydreigon. While you lose a Fairy switchin, Weezing resists still, and Snorlax sets up on all Fairies not named Encore Whimsicott and Belly Drum Slurpuff, so you should be alright.

Hope you try out the suggestions made by myself and others, as I believe they're all pretty solid and will hopefully improve your team's effectiveness. Good luck :]

Infernape Set

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- Mach Punch

 

[jjoshcja]

Man, here I thought Tspikes+leach seed+encore+other curselax+roar was a pretty efficient way to check curselax while keeping it alive for weezing pain splits and whimsi leach recovery.

Not sure how a worst case 50/50 matchup is a weakness.

(ice beam is on Mstoise because grass types, namely shamin, can show this team hell with a free switchin btw)

 

[Vapo]

The reason I said the team has a weakness to Curselax is because, in its current state, it lacks a reliable way to kill it, especially after a curse. Sure, you can check it with Encore Whimsicott and Roar Blastoise, but neither of these Pokemon can come even close to eliminating it from play. Both lack reliable recovery, meaning they cannot continuously check Snorlax throughout a longer match. A defensive approach to checking Curselax would be fine if the team had a wish passer to heal up Whimsicott and Blastoise, which it doesn't, so the team needs some way of killing it reliably, which Infernape provides. I also don't see how tspikes check Snorlax since it can just rest off the status, nor do I agree with crit wars between Snorlax's to be an "efficient" way of checking it. Just my two cents.

edit: In my suggestion I replaced an offensive fire type with another offensive fire type that operates similarly and has a better matchup versus Snorlax, so I don't really see how it conflicts with the team's nature.

 

[jjoshcja]

I should not have to explain this. Wall of text activate

As is the teams current members are able to check up to 15 rounds of "free turns" on lax under the worst possible circumstances without relying on the teams own curselax to curse war. Under optimal conditions curselax cannot do anything but rest and serve as free healing. Even assuming worst case scenario + mad momentum lax has very little to force out and gain free turns on, Mstoise being the only mon to give up anything resembling a free turn. A game could go to 100+ turns easily under worst case conditions without curselax becoming a tier 1 threat.

That said the team can be threatened heavily by the combination of SD gutscross/A well played bandcross + mon that enjoys fighting checks removed however that's the case with any slower team. It is a weakness but not one that can be remedied without a large amount of mon shuffling. Possibly something like Defensive Arcanine over entie could assist with this however even that suffers greatly in the face of EQ+Megahorn cross variations. Other very real weakness's would be Taunt Maero (Mstoise is on its own here, scott has to die to check this), Shamin (something dies if this comes in free), Roserade/Tentacruel (TSPIKES GG), Colbur CM Reun (I don't need to explain this one), Sub SD Gatr (just wins with whimsicott removed), Sub CM Chandelure (runs this team with a free sub, no tspikes and damage on stoise), and as the OP mentioned, roarcune. An over focus on lax just makes these weaknesses more appalling as it has very little overlap with most of them outside of being a physical attacker. These threats mostly require some degree of prep work on the opponents part, so I cant bring myself to change 3+ mons to patch up the existent "play around me" weaknesses without opening more holes in the team.

Proof's in tha puddin~

0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 79-94 (24.4 - 29.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

whimsicott recovers 18%+6% = 24% from lefties and leach seed.

weezing gains a full heal from pain split, and burns forcing a rest never leaving full. Though clear smog could be used under extreme circumstances.

0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 85-102 (23.7 - 28.4%) -- 94.4% chance to 4HKO

Roughly 20% from leach seed. Will be used to roar only on a rested lax.

Lax takes 30% after lefties from Tspikes+leach+rocks swapping into scott, takes 50%% from a weezing pain split + burn after a body slam, and takes between 39 and 50% after rocks and status swapping into Sfire. If lax had the luxary of playing offensively I would agree, good thing lax sets up on 0 members of the team without either being roared out, or horribly maimed or forced to rest.

252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. +1 144 HP / 188 Def Snorlax: 328-385 (65.9 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 132-156 (45 - 53.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 0 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 297-351 (101.3 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Nape takes between 45% with a para chance and dead% from lax depending on the game conditions.

Infernape can half check lax for one round under optimal conditions. This is the exact opposite of including a sustainable check.

TL:DR: You're hard over focusing lax without taking the team as a whole or the impact of the changes made into account here. Lax's main threat to this team is its ability to spread para, on a team that's slow as balls to begin with.

TL:DR:DR: This team has much more in common with semi than it does with BO due to its way of handling threats. Only Entei really holds it in the realm of defensive balance. On defensive teams forcing a sweeper to play passively is checking/countering it.

TL:DR:DR:DR: It's worked for 16 years, and lax's variant sets, bandlax, offensive curselax, phaselax, and that abomination known as LK BD lax are dead in this metagame. Please do not claim this is not a viable way to deal with defensive curselax.

 

[Saltytears]

Thanks for so much toughts about my team , after what i read it seems she"s doing well :) , did some adjustment on the first post making it more easier to read , if there more things to say keep doing it that actually helps me a lot and maybe some readers if any wanna play this team !