Balanced Hackmons Community Create-a-Team (Testing post-Protean team)

MAMP

MAMP!
A couple of things:

1. Imposter Pikachu is terrible. Please stop submitting it, and please stop voting for it. The main draw of Imposter Pikachu is its ability to blow past the opponents Imposter counters through the sheer power it gains from Light Ball. Problem is, Lucky Punch Chansey can achieve basically the same thing, except that it can actually take hits. Pikachu can't switch into anything, it has to win a speed tie to beat the thing that its Impostering because it'll almost always get OHKO'd by any offensive mon, and it can easily be checked by any priority user, or just anything thats faster than it. Imposter Pikachu can be quite effective when it works, but its just so unreliable and inconsistent that it's really not worth running over other variants of Imposter; if you really want that kind of set on the team, nominate Lucky Punch Chansey, its superior in basically every way.

2. Our Registeel set doesn't reliably counter the Protean Ray:

200 Atk Protean Mega Rayquaza Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 144-169 (39.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With only a little bit (read: 10-15%) of prior damage, that can 2HKO, meaning that to not lose to Imposter we have to play extremely conservatively with our Registeel, overall limiting its effectiveness greatly, and restricting its ability to come in against opposing -ates and the like. The Protean Ray set is designed to be walled by a Giratina (which does so flawlessly), so I'm not sure why we need to run something suboptimal like FF Registeel on this team. The justification is that FF Registeel walls both of our Rays, but the same can be achieved far more effectively with a Giratina + a more useful Registeel set, like Magic Bounce or Prankster. Which leads me onto my nomination:



Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Parting Shot / U-turn
- Slack Off
- Metal Burst
- Will-O-Wisp / Whirlwind

Poison Heal Giratina serves as a reliable counter to our Protean Ray should it be Impostered, as well as a very solid check to a variety of offensive Pokemon in the tier, including many variants of Mega Mewtwo X, any Contrary that lacks Draco Meteor, PH Kyogre, Red Orb Groudon and various other miscellaneous threats. It can very safely pivot into about half of the metagame, and with its slow U-turn/Parting Shot give free switches into our Rays, providing them with more opportunities to wreak havoc on the opponents team. The 80 SpDef EV's allow Giratina to always survive Protean M2Y's Spooky Plate Judgment, and the rest go into Def, allowing Giratina to take a +1 Knock Off from Mega TTar and more reliably take on things like M2X. -Speed nature and 0 Speed IV's allow for a very slow pivot. The last two moveslots are very open; Topsy Turvy, Knock Off, Shadow Ball, Stealth Rock, Defog, Leech Seed etc. are all solid options, it really depends how the team turns out and what role we need Giratina to play.
 
A couple of things:

1. Imposter Pikachu is terrible. Please stop submitting it, and please stop voting for it. The main draw of Imposter Pikachu is its ability to blow past the opponents Imposter counters through the sheer power it gains from Light Ball. Problem is, Lucky Punch Chansey can achieve basically the same thing, except that it can actually take hits. Pikachu can't switch into anything, it has to win a speed tie to beat the thing that its Impostering because it'll almost always get OHKO'd by any offensive mon, and it can easily be checked by any priority user, or just anything thats faster than it. Imposter Pikachu can be quite effective when it works, but its just so unreliable and inconsistent that it's really not worth running over other variants of Imposter; if you really want that kind of set on the team, nominate Lucky Punch Chansey, its superior in basically every way.
Please stop. That is seriously dumb. Lucky punch Chansey is a terrible gimmick that has no reason to exist, while Imposterchu has a role. Its like comparing deoxys-a with mega alakazam- one of them is decent but with some serious flaws, one of them should never be used. Lucky punch is the definition of inconsistant.
Looking at it from a mathematical perspective- Lucky Punch raises the crit chance from 1/16 to 1/4. Thats an increase of 1/16, out of 50% that crits boost. Thats a 9% increase- for the record, the terribad items of muscle band and wise glasses boost 10. Sure it boosts both sides, but no chansey should lucky punch. Eviolite will always be better, as will a spooky plate, a choice scarf, safety goggles. In terms of damage boosting imposters, your best options are pikachu- Which is way better than you give it credit for- and band/specs/lo chansey/blisey. Of these, I know which one I want to use.

Your own set is an example of this. pikachu has a (small) chance to 2hko after poison heal if you try and wall, as well as 1 92% if we aren't poisoned yet. Chansey has 0, no matter how often it crits..

2. Our Registeel set doesn't reliably counter the Protean Ray:

200 Atk Protean Mega Rayquaza Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 144-169 (39.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With only a little bit (read: 10-15%) of prior damage, that can 2HKO, meaning that to not lose to Imposter we have to play extremely conservatively with our Registeel, overall limiting its effectiveness greatly, and restricting its ability to come in against opposing -ates and the like. The Protean Ray set is designed to be walled by a Giratina (which does so flawlessly), so I'm not sure why we need to run something suboptimal like FF Registeel on this team. The justification is that FF Registeel walls both of our Rays, but the same can be achieved far more effectively with a Giratina + a more useful Registeel set, like Magic Bounce or Prankster.
That is a reliable counter. You shouldn't ever use you imposterproofing for anything else unless they have no imposters.
Which leads me onto my nomination:



Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Parting Shot / U-turn
- Slack Off
- Metal Burst
- Will-O-Wisp / Whirlwind

Poison Heal Giratina serves as a reliable counter to our Protean Ray should it be Impostered, as well as a very solid check to a variety of offensive Pokemon in the tier, including many variants of Mega Mewtwo X, any Contrary that lacks Draco Meteor, PH Kyogre, Red Orb Groudon and various other miscellaneous threats. It can very safely pivot into about half of the metagame, and with its slow U-turn/Parting Shot give free switches into our Rays, providing them with more opportunities to wreak havoc on the opponents team. The 80 SpDef EV's allow Giratina to always survive Protean M2Y's Spooky Plate Judgment, and the rest go into Def, allowing Giratina to take a +1 Knock Off from Mega TTar and more reliably take on things like M2X. -Speed nature and 0 Speed IV's allow for a very slow pivot. The last two moveslots are very open; Topsy Turvy, Knock Off, Shadow Ball, Stealth Rock, Defog, Leech Seed etc. are all solid options, it really depends how the team turns out and what role we need Giratina to play.
First off, how dos it wall ph kyogre?
+1 252+ SpA Kyogre Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 80 SpD Giratina: 304-358 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
(304, 306, 310, 314, 318, 322, 324, 328, 332, 336, 340, 342, 346, 350, 354, 358)

Secondly what MMX sets are you walling? Not protean, not refridgerate, not pixelate... I guess illusion and no guard.
 

Gyarados-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Switcheroo

Handles Shedinja reliably, sets rocks to wear down opposing M-Rays/Imposters & cripples walls with switcheroo. Allows M-Rays to sweep effectively & provides a means of handling set-up sweepers (albeit this is a soft check).
Alternatively:
Chansey (F) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Metal Burst
- Final Gambit
- Skill Swap
- Milk Drink

I think it's time we included an imposter mon to serve as a semi-reliable check to opposing set-up sweepers & to offer the team more versatility overall by allowing us to have any one of the opponents mons to suit our needs. Spooky plate is to hit Spooky plate judgement users (Mewtwo-Y/M-Gengar).
 

OM

It's a starstruck world
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Judgment
- Secret Sword
- King's Shield
- Sludge Bomb

Basically Just standard Wallbreaker Mmy + Sludge Bomb to hit M-Audino
 
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Please stop. That is seriously dumb. Lucky punch Chansey is a terrible gimmick that has no reason to exist, while Imposterchu has a role. Its like comparing deoxys-a with mega alakazam-
indeed, they both sux lel

Nah, but really, what does mega-alakazam do that mega-mewtwo-y doesn't do better? The only remotely used 'mons Ala outspeeds is Aero, Beedrill and sceptile. It ties with Deoxys-A, but that's not really all too common with Diance around and whatnot. Seems usable but outclassed, like Deoxys.

I'm not too experienced in using Imposters, but Pikachu basically has no actual defense, light ball gets some ko's in I guess but it's just a 50/50 without 255 hp. What even are those ko's anyway? If it 2hko's tina doesn't metal burst kill anyway?
 
indeed, they both sux lel

Nah, but really, what does mega-alakazam do that mega-mewtwo-y doesn't do better? The only remotely used 'mons Ala outspeeds is Aero, Beedrill and sceptile. It ties with Deoxys-A, but that's not really all too common with Diance around and whatnot. Seems usable but outclassed, like Deoxys.

I'm not too experienced in using Imposters, but Pikachu basically has no actual defense, light ball gets some ko's in I guess but it's just a 50/50 without 255 hp. What even are those ko's anyway? If it 2hko's tina doesn't metal burst kill anyway?
I was saying the reverse. Deoxys-A has a niche, Malakazam doesn't.

The ko's depend (obviously) on what you imposter into, but any non immunity/resistance based imposterproofing just fails flat out. some examples, however, are:
252+ Atk Light Ball Pixilate Pikachu (Diancie) Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 262-309 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Light Ball Aerilate Pikachu (Mray) Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 483-568 (96 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Light Ball Aerilate Pikachu (Mray) Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar: 324-382 (95 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

If there is a partular calc you are looking for, feel free to ask.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
Please stop. That is seriously dumb. Lucky punch Chansey is a terrible gimmick that has no reason to exist, while Imposterchu has a role. Its like comparing deoxys-a with mega alakazam- one of them is decent but with some serious flaws, one of them should never be used. Lucky punch is the definition of inconsistant.
Looking at it from a mathematical perspective- Lucky Punch raises the crit chance from 1/16 to 1/4. Thats an increase of 1/16, out of 50% that crits boost. Thats a 9% increase- for the record, the terribad items of muscle band and wise glasses boost 10. Sure it boosts both sides, but no chansey should lucky punch. Eviolite will always be better, as will a spooky plate, a choice scarf, safety goggles. In terms of damage boosting imposters, your best options are pikachu- Which is way better than you give it credit for- and band/specs/lo chansey/blisey. Of these, I know which one I want to use.

Your own set is an example of this. pikachu has a (small) chance to 2hko after poison heal if you try and wall, as well as 1 92% if we aren't poisoned yet. Chansey has 0, no matter how often it crits..
To be fair, I was a bit harsh on Imposter Pikachu, but its still an inferior choice. First of all, Lucky Punch boosts Chansey's crit rate to 50%, which is a much more notable boost. The main reason that Lucky Punch Chansey is better than Pika is that it can perform the roles that Imposter normally plays on top of being able to break through the opponents Imposter counters. Unlike Pikachu, Lucky Punch Chansey can actually switch into attacks, and thus can be used to scout out movesets and you don't have to sac something to bring it in. Pikachu is completely reliant on winning a speed tie to achieve anything because of its extreme frailty, and even if it does get past whatever it's Impostered, it can be easily checked by an -ate or anything faster. We're trying to build a competitively viable team here, and we really don't need to waste a teamslot on a mediocre gimmick that is completely reliant on winning a 50% chance to do anything. Imposter Pikachu can be decent on a team designed to support it with paralysis and the like, but as it stands our team does not have the support needed to make Pikachu not suck.


That is a reliable counter. You shouldn't ever use you imposterproofing for anything else unless they have no imposters.
A Pokemon that has to stay above 85% to switch in is not a reliable counter. Are you saying that we should basically play with 5 Pokemon against any team with an Imposter? I'm sorry, but thats really unreasonable, especially when the Pokemon in question is one with as much utility as Registeel. Registeel is a versatile check to wide variety of Pokemon, but as it currently stands its very overworked; we're reliant on it to switch into both of our Rays and opposing -ates. It's unreasonable to expect Registeel to be able to perform all of these roles reliably, so we need something to take some of the load off of it. Giratina means that we don't lose to Imposter if our Registeel gets too weakened, and also allows us to run a more useful ability on Registeel, making it a lot easier for Registeel to do what it needs to do.

First off, how dos it wall ph kyogre?
+1 252+ SpA Kyogre Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 80 SpD Giratina: 304-358 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
(304, 306, 310, 314, 318, 322, 324, 328, 332, 336, 340, 342, 346, 350, 354, 358)
Firstly, I said that it was a check to PH Kyogre, not that it could wall it. Giratina's ability to check Kyogre is dependent on what moveset we run, I probably should have specified that in my post, so that's my bad. Giratina can stall it out if we have Topsy Turvy, can easily pivot in and Whirlwind/Dragon Tail it out, or OHKO it with Metal Burst on a predicted Moonblast. It's not a super reliable counter, but it is a decent check, which is what I said in my post.
Secondly what MMX sets are you walling? Not protean, not refridgerate, not pixelate... I guess illusion and no guard.
Again, I said its a check, not a hard counter. Obviously, with a Pokemon as versatile as M2X its impossible to reliably counter it, but Giratina can check many of its common sets. Protean M2X can't beat Giratina constistently unless it has something like Play Rough or Draco Meteor, both of which are rare. Knock Off sets without Life Orb really struggle unless Giratina is severely weakened or they get crits:

252 Atk Protean Mega Mewtwo X Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 180+ Def Giratina: 284-336 (56.4 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (with an item)

252 Atk Protean Mega Mewtwo X Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 180+ Def Giratina: 192-228 (38.1 - 45.3%) -- 49.3% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal (without an item)

2 absolute max rolls will kill, but that's a tiny chance. Giratina has to be careful hard switching into Knock Off, but if Giratina comes in on any other move then M2X can't break it.

Giratina can't switch into Life Orb Knock Off, but if it gets in safely it can take the first Knock and recover up:

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo X Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 180+ Def Giratina: 369-437 (73.3 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal (with item)

After that, you can just spam recover to wear M2X down with LO recoil and it can't break through without crits:

252 Atk Life Orb Protean Mega Mewtwo X Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 180+ Def Giratina: 250-296 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal (w/o item)

Aside from Knock Off, Protean M2X doesn't commonly carry any other moves that can get through PH Giratina.

Giratina can't switch into -ate M2X, but it can check variants without Boomburst.

252+ Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Mega Mewtwo X Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 180+ Def Giratina: 268-316 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

Tina can take Espeed and either spam recover to stall out the PP, or just go for Will-o-Wisp to take the next one with ease. Basically every other variant of M2X gets stomped by PH Giratina; Contrary needs Draco to get past, and Mold Breaker, Illusion, No Guard etc. don't stand a chance.
 
Mamp wins!

Current team members:

Rayquaza-Mega @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Protean
EVs: 200 Atk / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Rash Nature
- Judgment
- Bolt Strike
- Boomburst
- V-create

Rayquaza-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Spore
- Infestation / Magma Storm

Registeel @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Nuzzle
- Stealth Rock/Defog/Gastro Acid
- Recover
- Parting Shot

Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Parting Shot / U-turn
- Slack Off
- Metal Burst
- Will-O-Wisp / Whirlwind


Nominations for Stage 5 are now open!
 
I think this is worth another shot.

Ho-Oh @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Recover
- Whirlwind / U-Turn

At the moment, our offensive presence can be easily revenge killed by Mega Diancie which would suggest that we include a solid check to it. Ho-Oh can fulfill that role as long as Diancie doesn't run Rock-type STAB (which they rarely do).

Magic Guard with Toxic Orb allows Ho-Oh to bypass its nasty 4x Stealth Rock weakness while simultaneously being immune to any forms of status once the Toxic Orb activates.

Max SDef lets Ho-Oh check Mega Gengar along with some variants of Protean MMY. It can also serve as a very soft check to GW Mega Rayquaza taking ~60% from +3 Oblivion Wing (without LO) and then phazing it out with Whirlwind. Whirlwind will also allow Ho-Oh to phaze out Tinted Dialga. U-turn can be used instead to let Ho-Oh pivot out if we don't have to worry about GW MRay or Tinted Dialga.

Ho-Oh can also be a very flimsy check to -ate MMX should the need arise, taking ~40% from Espeed (without plate).
One thing I'd like to point out: currently our team was ZERO safe switchins to Mega Gengar or Protean MMY, with all of our Pokemon so far being 2HKOed by an unboosted Judgment from Mega Gengar. Additionally, we don't have a way of reliably taking out Protean MMY, with our best bet counting on a 50/50 chance of predicting a King's Shield to successfully use spore.

However, Ho-Oh can provide a sturdy check to Mega Gengar, being capable of shrugging off Judgment and threatening it back with either Knock Off or Flare Blitz.

Ho-Oh can also easily wall some variants of Protean MMY, taking pathetic damage from Moonblast or Magma Storm, natural immunity to Earth Power, and Spooky Plate Judgment barely 3HKOing. Ho-Oh in return can easily 2HKO with Flare Blitz, or remove its item (which tends to be a plate) to allow other Pokemon to wall MMY as well.

Unfortunately, Protean MMY's versatility is still a factor, allowing it to demolish Ho-Oh with SE moves or 2HKOing with LO Boomburst.
 


Audino-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- King's Shield
- Topsy-Turvy / U-Turn
- Leech Seed / Recover

Well, the team looks like it gets 6-0d by PH Tar and Protean MMY. Unfortunately every Mewtwo runs Sludge Wave now so this will only soft check it but it does check 2 PH 'mons that could setup on one of its walls and sweep, Ice Beam Kyogre and standard Tyranitar.

We also have a Steel/Dragon core so why not complete it with a Fairy?

Leech Seed and Topsy-Turvy let's it check Tyranitar and Kyogre even after a couple of boosts. Knock Off removes Mewtwo's Plates which are often used for Judgment. King's Shield is just used to scout Protean Mewtwo's final move, the first 3 being most likely Judgment/Secret Sword/King's Shield.

Also Mega Gengar with King's Shield in the hands of a competent player can also sweep with its base Ghost/Fighting coverage and even with Ghost/Poison if it has Adaptability. So this helps against the first set.
 
Come on guys, we need more than 2 submissions! I can make one of my own if you guys want, but I would rather have this be a completely community-driven project.
 
Things that seriously threaten our team
Mega Mewtwo Y (Judgement and All out attacker)
Mega Gengar
Tyranitar-Mega
Latios-Mega
Diancie-Mega (with ground coverage)
Dialga
Kyogre (depending on our tina slashes)
Primal Groudon (if it catches an attack boost with download tina is no longer a safe switch in)

So consider these mons if you plan on submitting
 

Chansey @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Skill Swap
- Metal Burst
- Soft-Boiled


Spooky plate Chansey allows us to handle misc threats to the team & provides us with an answer to contrary set up sweepers (which are often rife on the lower ladder). Spooky plate lets us copy boosts from Spooky plate M-Gengar (and hit it with judgement) & allows us to hit protean MMY hard.
This does not however check Poison heal Kyogre, Tyranitar & Regigigas.
 

Laxpras

One small yeet for man, one giant yeet for mankind

Chansey @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Skill Swap
- Metal Burst
- Soft-Boiled


Spooky plate Chansey allows us to handle misc threats to the team & provides us with an answer to contrary set up sweepers (which are often rife on the lower ladder). Spooky plate lets us copy boosts from Spooky plate M-Gengar (and hit it with judgement) & allows us to hit protean MMY hard.
This does not however check Poison heal Kyogre, Tyranitar & Regigigas.
With spooky plate, we should really use blissey.
 

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