Balanced Hackmons Viability Ranking

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Balanced Hackmons Viability Ranking

thanks to Litra for the banner!

Welcome to the Balanced Hackmons Viability Ranking thread. As is implied in the title, the purpose of this thread is to rank Pokemon based on how well they perform in the metagame, with the help of you, the community. Through your opinions and thoughts on the metagame, Pokemon are listed in order of viability with the best at the top of the rankings and the least usable at the bottom.

This thread, similarly to other viability ranking threads, will list both offensive and defensive Pokemon together.

Example: Both Mega Diancie and Aegislash being placed in the A Rank means that, according to the thread, Mega Diancie's overall offensive capabilities are at a similar level of Aegislash's overall defensive capabilities.

The following people are part of the council, which means that they get the final say on changes in the rankings (After considering community input, of course)


Below are the definitions of each rank, and they should be read be anyone that wants to participate in the discussion of Pokemon's ranks in BH:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the BH metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the BH metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the BH metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the BH metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the BH metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.



Without further ado, here are the rankings:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the BH metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

S+ Rank

Chansey

S Rank

Mewtwo (Mega Y)
Rayquaza (Mega)

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the BH metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

A+ Rank

Giratina
Mewtwo (Mega X)

A Rank

Aegislash
Dialga
Diancie (Mega)
Registeel

A- Rank

Arceus-*
Gengar (Mega)
Shedinja

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the BH metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

B+ Rank

Audino (Mega)
Kyogre
Kyurem-Black
Regirock
Slowbro (Mega)

B Rank

Aggron (Mega)
Groudon
Gyarados (Mega)
Latias (Mega)
Latios (Mega)
Tyranitar (Mega)
Xerneas
Yveltal

B- Rank

Aerodactyl (Mega)
Cresselia
Kyurem-White

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the BH metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

C+ Rank

Darmanitan-Zen
Deoxys-Speed
Lugia
Regigigas
Slaking

C Rank

Ho-Oh
Palkia
Zekrom

C- Rank

Garchomp (Mega)
Kangaskhan (Mega)
Reshiram
Scizor (Mega)
Venusaur (Mega)

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the BH metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

D Rank

Alakazam (Mega)
Altaria (Mega)
Banette (Mega)
Blaziken (Mega)
Charizard (Mega Y)
Deoxys-Attack
Ferrothorn
Heatran
Hoopa-Unbound
Houndoom (Mega)
Lucario (Mega)
Mawile (Mega)
Sceptile (Mega)
Shuckle
Skarmory

Blissey Rank: Blissey is in a unique situation in Balanced Hackmons in that it's directly outclassed by Chansey for all but one set (Final Gambit) because of Chansey's ability to bluff Eviolite even if it's running something else. However, it is, along with most high-HP Imposter pokemon, runnable, and very good.
Blissey


Rules:
  • Post intelligently. If you think a Pokemon should be at a certain rank, don't just state it; provide evidence. Posts that do otherwise will not be tolerated and deleted.
  • Goes without saying, but no flaming. This should be a civilized discussion.
thread shamelessly copied from old one
Approved by The Immortal
 
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Changelog:
  • Mewtwo-Mega-X (A) -> A+
  • Aegislash (A-) -> A
  • Registeel (B+) -> A
  • Diancie-Mega (A-) -> A
  • Gourgeist-Super (D) -> Unranked
  • Arceus-* (B+) -> A-
  • Tyranitar-Mega (B-) -> B

8/26/15
  • Mewtwo-Mega-Y (A+) -> S
  • Kyurem-Black (B) -> B+
  • Kyogre (Unranked) -> B+
  • Groudon (Unranked) -> B
  • Chansey (S) -> S+
  • Dialga (B) -> A
  • Aerodactyl-Mega (C+) -> B-
  • Blaziken-Mega (Unranked) -> D
9/2/15
  • Blissey (A) -> Blissey Rank
12/19/15
  • Audino-Mega (B) -> B+
  • Hoopa-Unbound (C+) -> D
 
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Okay, initial thoughts: Why arent Kyorge and Groudon listed? Orge should be at least B+, and don should prob be around B. also, why hasnt deo-A moved up yet?
 
Okay, initial thoughts: Why arent Kyorge and Groudon listed? Orge should be at least B+, and don should prob be around B. also, why hasnt deo-A moved up yet?
I copied these from Kit's old rankings, and his were just the GKR meta's rankings minus the Primals. I just haven't added them yet. I'm kinda waiting for Adrian to come back before I work more on these.
 

Funbot28

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Ok these rankings look good, but here are some mons I would like to have a change in rank:

S to S+
Chansey is ultimately the most meta defining mon in BH to be blunt. Your team needs ways to deal with one of your mons being Impostered. Eviolite combined with it's titanic HP makes it almost unbreakable. It is so centralizing that it could brainlessly be added to any team, and be effective. I find it defines the meta way more than Mega Ray, and the rankings should reflect that.

A+ to S
I already nommed this in the older thread, but without the primals, MMY has a more easier time fitting on to teams as before. It's Protean set really pushes it over the edge, but it still can run multiple other sets effectively. It is susceptible to -ate spam, but it can migate it by running King's Shield. Overall, MMY is one of the best mons in the meta, and defines it enough to go S.

B to B+
Even with the -ate nerf, Kyreum-B still molds itself as a powerful wallbreaker in this meta, thanks to it's crazy 170 base Atk. The loss of the primals also help out Kyreum-B to fulfill it's wallbreaking capabilities. Should get a little bump.
 

Megazard

The turtle moves
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Your change log says gourgeist super was moved to unranked but the sprite is still in D (unless it's small but that should be specified in the ranks and idk why small would be ranked)
 
There are a few things that I wanted to do but figured they might be a bit controversial and/or I wasn't quite sure about where to put them, so I figured I'd post them here:
  • Aerodactyl-Mega (C+) should be a higher tier IMO, but I'm not sure where exactly. Maybe B-? Reasons: Fur Coat Dactyl is a terrific Megaray counter, and its high Speed and Attack stats along with its stats allow it to be an effective sweeper with sets like Magic Guard. It outspeeds Mega Gengar, which is fairly unique.
  • Shedinja (A-) should be a lower tier IMO, but I'm not sure where exactly. Maybe B+? Reasons: It needs hazard support to be used effectively, and things can run one move to easily beat it. While it is capable of walling significant portions of the low ladder metagame, I'd argue that it does not wall a significant enough portion of the high level metagame, and using it as a pivot with Baton Pass or Volt Switch is great until your opponent predicts you switching it in and uses Magma Storm
  • Dialga (B) should be A because of its ability to destroy balance/semistall teams with its Tail Glow/Doom Desire/Draco set, seriously that thing is insane
  • As I mentioned in the other thread, I think Blissey (A) needs to drop because it is directly outclassed by Chansey in every way, and there is no reason to run it over Chans. Chans can bluff eviolite so people won't be hesitant to use Shell Smash or start setting up their Poison Healers, and can then surprise the opponent with an item that makes them better suited for dealing with opponents.
Ok these rankings look good, but here are some mons I would like to have a change in rank:

S to S+
Chansey is ultimately the most meta defining mon in BH to be blunt. Your team needs ways to deal with one of your mons being Impostered. Eviolite combined with it's titanic HP makes it almost unbreakable. It is so centralizing that it could brainlessly be added to any team, and be effective. I find it defines the meta way more than Mega Ray, and the rankings should reflect that. I agree with you on how much Chansey defines the meta, but I'm not sure if S+ is actually a thing used places. I'm looking at the OU Viability Rankings thread and they just have S rank, no pluses or minuses.

A+ to S
I already nommed this in the older thread, but without the primals, MMY has a more easier time fitting on to teams as before. It's Protean set really pushes it over the edge, but it still can run multiple other sets effectively. It is susceptible to -ate spam, but it can migate it by running King's Shield. Overall, MMY is one of the best mons in the meta, and defines it enough to go S. I agree that it matches the definition of S so no issues with that here. It can really run coverage to get through just about any wall for it (except FC Chans, I've never seen one get past FC Chans).

B to B+
Even with the -ate nerf, Kyreum-B still molds itself as a powerful wallbreaker in this meta, thanks to it's crazy 170 base Atk. The loss of the primals also help out Kyreum-B to fulfill it's wallbreaking capabilities. Should get a little bump. Yeah I think the primals were an issue for it, but they're gone now. With all the Ray spam that's happening now I agree that it should get a boost.
Bolded responses here. Overall I agree with you, but as I said, I want to double check with Adrian and UC first before I implement these changes.

Your change log says gourgeist super was moved to unranked but the sprite is still in D (unless it's small but that should be specified in the ranks and idk why small would be ranked)
Thanks, fixed
 

Josh

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There are a few things that I wanted to do but figured they might be a bit controversial and/or I wasn't quite sure about where to put them, so I figured I'd post them here:
  • Aerodactyl-Mega (C+) should be a higher tier IMO, but I'm not sure where exactly. Maybe B-? Reasons: Fur Coat Dactyl is a terrific Megaray counter, and its high Speed and Attack stats along with its stats allow it to be an effective sweeper with sets like Magic Guard. It outspeeds Mega Gengar, which is fairly unique.
  • Shedinja (A-) should be a lower tier IMO, but I'm not sure where exactly. Maybe B+? Reasons: It needs hazard support to be used effectively, and things can run one move to easily beat it. While it is capable of walling significant portions of the low ladder metagame, I'd argue that it does not wall a significant enough portion of the high level metagame, and using it as a pivot with Baton Pass or Volt Switch is great until your opponent predicts you switching it in and uses Magma Storm
  • Dialga (B) should be A because of its ability to destroy balance/semistall teams with its Tail Glow/Doom Desire/Draco set, seriously that thing is insane
  • As I mentioned in the other thread, I think Blissey (A) needs to drop because it is directly outclassed by Chansey in every way, and there is no reason to run it over Chans. Chans can bluff eviolite so people won't be hesitant to use Shell Smash or start setting up their Poison Healers, and can then surprise the opponent with an item that makes them better suited for dealing with opponents.

Bolded responses here. Overall I agree with you, but as I said, I want to double check with Adrian and UC first before I implement these changes.


Thanks, fixed
S+ is used places. That said I personally think it looks bad and having a solid S is just cleaner. If you really want to give Chansey it's own rank, drop mega ray to A+ if you must.

I support Shedinja dropping. Like you said, it cleans up low ladder but high ladder players easily deal with it. Don't get me wrong, ts decent, but being OHKO'd by any status move, entry hazard, or any other passive damage in general is just terrible.

I don't even get why you ranked blissey in A lol. Drop to B- in my opinion, at LEAST, being directly outclassed in a meta with no species clause saks.

Anyways gl with your rankings piccolo. I'd recommend putting someone else on the council who knows BH as a temporary replacement to Adrian until he returns. It'll help smooth things along.
 

Funbot28

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In Ubers, Primal-Groudon is as centralizing and meta defining as Chansey in BH, which is why it is ranked S+. Xerneas, Arceus, Mega Salamence are all to meta defining aswell to be ranked lower than S, same could be said for Mega-Ray in BH imo.
 
I'm gona bring up blaziken-mega again
With groudon primal out of the way, blaziken mega can once more do its niche sets (prankster v-create and contratory) with its extremely powerful stab options as groudon primal is no longer the 100% spot taker
It certainly is not so powerful as it used to be and with mega ray around it is still not the most strongest, but it definatly is a viable niche that should be atleast D rank for the mentions sake
 

highlighter

OM Grand Slam Winner
Audino-Mega from B -> B+
It can be a great special wall or defensive wall depending which EVs are put into it. Its capable of fulfilling a wide variety of support roles and can be used successfully with a multitude of abilities such as mbounce, prankster, fur coat, or PH. Also, its PH set can somewhat check -ate depending on its moveset, and its great typing allows it to completely wall Mega Gengar unless they run a poison move (which they rarely do).
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
i actually kind of oppose shedinjas dropping, i mean, allthough it can be easily defeated via any form of hazards, thats never an issue for a good shedinja player vs a good general player. not EVERY poke on their team is a sheddy counter,(and if they are, the teams end up 9 out of 10 times being horribly bad) which only makes their shedinja death circle a lot easier to play around(oh, they see i have a shedinja, here comes the dry switch to the poke who can tank it). makes them play safer, so in turn you can play more aggressive in return.it also pretty much forces the opponent to send out giratina/gengar or risk losing a pokemon early, allowing you to capitalize on that EVERY time shedinja comes in(tinted draco meteor anyone?). also the fact that defog is a easily splashable move on teams only furthers its survivability. both moldy don, pursuit trapping, and even moldy gar itself have all slowly become less common from what ive seen. shedinja is not a "sweeper" or a "wall" its a "support" mon, and being able to take on half the opponents team, and REQUIRE a mold pursuit to take it down reliably is imo, A- worthy. if it wasnt for hazards and pursuit also being viable, i would argue its S+ ranked itself. its A rank because its hindrances prevent it from being S ranked, in which, it is instead placed in A- rank as its role as a supporter alongside being capable of sweeping/walling is by far unparalleled even WITH its huge weaknesses aside.
 
The thing with the S-rank in BH is that mons on those rank (Chansey and Mega Rayquaza) are waaaay over anything else.
We all know how centralizing Imposter Chansey is. And well the community is currently trying to solve the problem with Mega Rayquaza (I mean they're looking for the best way to ban Aerilate Mega Rayquaza).
Still I think those should raise to S+ to fit in S another mon: MMY. It is weak to priority (looking at you -ates) which can be mitigated with King's Shield. Its Protean set 2HKOes the whole meta with the right moves, something that MMX for example cannot do due to Fur Coat existing. There are also other sets like Contrary, but those are overshadowed by the Protean set. It has just one flaw (weak to priority) severely outweighed by its sheer power and wallbreaker potential.
Supporting Kyurem-B, Aerodactyl-Mega and Dialga raises. Kyu to B+, Aero to B- and Dialga A or A- imo.
Supporting Shedinja drop to B+ or even B. Also supporting Blissey dropping but not sure where because it makes a better use of Plates and Lefties but Chansey can bluff its common items and run those (well no Lefties but you get the point). I'd put it in C+ because Pokémon in C-rank "tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon" but it'd be one of the best Pokémon in the meta if it wasn't for Chansey.
 
Still don't understand why Deoxys-A hasn't been moved up yet. D -> C+ or C pls

Sadly Deo-A has lost it's utility in bolt striking pogre and earthpowering pdon, but it's still way better than most D rank mons.

EDIT: Shouldn't Kyogre be somewhere on this list? From what i hear it's still a very effective PH sweeper, and don must have some use as well.
 
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Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
Still don't understand why Deoxys-A hasn't been moved up yet. D -> C+ pls

Sadly Deo-A has lost it's utility in bolt striking pogre and earthpowering pdon, but it's still way better than most D rank mons.

EDIT: Shouldn't Kyogre be somewhere on this list? From what i hear it's still a very effective PH sweeper, and don must have some use as well.
It's been discussed a lot in the previous thread that Deo-A's only niche is its high speed and its low defenses, which allow it to be somewhat imposter-resistant because it makes it possible to OHKO the imposter as long as you have a sash up. The reason why it is ranked D is because keeping the sash up requires a whole lot of support, and without the sash it's more or less outclassed by the mewtwos (not strictly outclassed, but practically speaking, the mewtwos are better).
 
I would suggest that Kyogre be placed into B+. It simply functions as a weaker version of its (banned) Primal self. Before POgre came around, Kyogre enjoyed use as a PH setup sweeper, a Regenvester, and in a multitude of other roles. It's a strong member of the metagame in POgre's absence, and while the stat nerf down from POgre certainly hurts, it didn't do nearly enough damage to invalidate Kyogre as a team member. Looking at the current viability rankings, it's absolutely a step above the members of B and around the level of those in B+ in terms of viability.
 
I'm just moving along with these rankings. I made a bunch of changes (see changelog). I did decide to put Chansey in S+ because of how meta defining it is. Any Pokemon that can't deal with Chansey in some way (e.g. self walling, requiring team support, etc) is basically unviable. I don't feel comfortable moving Deo-A up for the reasons Kit listed. I still haven't decided what to do with Shedinja or Blissey. I'm almost positive I want to move Blissey down, but where is the question. As for Shedinja, I'm not sure if I still want to move it. I'd love to hear some more arguments on either side before I make a decision.
 
As for Shedinja, im on the fence about this dropping. However, I am leaning towards to keeping it in A-. While trapping affects can beat shedinja (weather sucks and shed can run lumcycle), this only works if they predict the risky shedinja switch, and u arent just slowpassing it in. Using it on a shedinja that is already in is useless, itll just pivot. Hazards are incredibly hard to keep up, due to magic bouncers paired with shedinja like registeel or aegislash, which commonly run defog as well. The fact that it requires so much support doesnt mean it should drop, but rather that it shouldnt rise to A or A+.

I would put Blissey in D, whenever i want to run spooky plate imposter i always go chansey, the hp difference is very minor (blissey has 714, chansey has 704) and can bluff eviolite. Overall, it isnt worth running over chansey, and i feel the definition of D rank suits blissey the best. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

Dialga for A-. I know this was just bumped up to A, but i feel that is a stretch. The loss of Pdon did make dialga consideribly better, but it has also lost utility as a pogre counter. The best set right now is deffenanitly the tail glow tinted lens set, but imposter is better than it was in the GKR meta since now 1/3 of teams dont have a bulky af imposterproof pogre. tl;dr Dialga is a lot better than it was, but not A rank worthy.
 
As for Shedinja, im on the fence about this dropping. However, I am leaning towards to keeping it in A-. While trapping affects can beat shedinja (weather sucks and shed can run lumcycle), this only works if they predict the risky shedinja switch, and u arent just slowpassing it in. Using it on a shedinja that is already in is useless, itll just pivot. Hazards are incredibly hard to keep up, due to magic bouncers paired with shedinja like registeel or aegislash, which commonly run defog as well. The fact that it requires so much support doesnt mean it should drop, but rather that it shouldnt rise to A or A+.

I would put Blissey in D, whenever i want to run spooky plate imposter i always go chansey, the hp difference is very minor (blissey has 714, chansey has 704) and can bluff eviolite. Overall, it isnt worth running over chansey, and i feel the definition of D rank suits blissey the best. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

Dialga for A-. I know this was just bumped up to A, but i feel that is a stretch. The loss of Pdon did make dialga consideribly better, but it has also lost utility as a pogre counter. The best set right now is deffenanitly the tail glow tinted lens set, but imposter is better than it was in the GKR meta since now 1/3 of teams dont have a bulky af imposterproof pogre. tl;dr Dialga is a lot better than it was, but not A rank worthy.
I don't think Blissey has a lot of crippling flaws, it is just outclassed, because Blissey it is a very good mon. The thing is that Chansey is outright better. D mons are borderline unusable, Blissey isn't. You could go with Blissey and it'd work well. You culd go with Chansey, and I'd work better. That's why I suggest C+. Pokémon in C and below are outclassed, and Blissey isn't bad, just plain outclassed.
On Shedinja, every form of residual damage is a OHKO, as well as Mold Breaker and friends. Someone argued in should stay A- because if you don't prepare for Shedinja you automatically lose when you see it. However I find Shedinja's checks easy to fit in a team, especially stall, which works with residual damage 100% of the time. On any stall team, 4 or 5 mons will be able to kill Shedinja. On offense this is a bit different, but still hazards are mandatory anyway and offense will be running Mold Breaker anyway to avoid bounced hazards for example. It's not the same as stall, but anyway it isn't that hard to fit on a team.
Furthermore, Shedinja needs an entire team built around it to work at its full potential, thus fitting B-rank description.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the BH metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

Shedinja needs a cleric and hazard control, something to scout for movesets (Imposter Chansey, so this isn't a big deal), a Magic Bouncer (not mandatory but recommendable) and something to take down common Mold Breakers (Giratina, Mega Tyranitar, Mega Gengar). It is a great mon but needs support, thus fitting in B+.
 
Blissey should probably go somewhere in B or C. Not because the Imposter Bliss vs Imposter Chans arguement, but it also runs Chansey's other signature set, Fur Coat, much worse because of the lack of eviolite. The same applies to any other non-Imposter set it might run. Its only saving grace is its lower vulnerability to Knock Off, although Eviolite-less Chansey is only slightly worse than Blissey.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
i think blissey should be in B-/C+ as it technically fits the discription of both, and since its still good, id argue either would be a good place for it. its not BAD, its actually a top tier threat, its just outclassed to hell and back.
 
Dialga for A-. I know this was just bumped up to A, but i feel that is a stretch. The loss of Pdon did make dialga consideribly better, but it has also lost utility as a pogre counter. The best set right now is deffenanitly the tail glow tinted lens set, but imposter is better than it was in the GKR meta since now 1/3 of teams dont have a bulky af imposterproof pogre. tl;dr Dialga is a lot better than it was, but not A rank worthy.
I'm not sure how much utility it had previously as a POgre counter. I never really saw it used as one at least. Yes, the Tail Glow Tinted Lens set is the best set, and I'd say that its pros far outweigh its cons. It's not hard to Imposter proof it (just add a Fairy pokemon with Substitute, 1 team member isn't bad for that) and the fact that it literally demolishes balance, semistall, and stall is just ridiculous. It won't have much utility against heavy offense teams, but even then could set up against a pivot.

The description for A rank is: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the BH metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

I think it fits this very well, as it's able to sweep 3 playstyles very effectively with very few counters. The only support it needs is a Substitute Fairy, which really isn't hard to fit on a team. I don't think it's a stretch of the A rank to require another Pokemon to wall it, seeing how MMX is in A+ and almost always needs a dedicated wall. Also, if you have Magnet Pull on the Sub Fairy like E4 Flint does, you can effectively start a setup sweep without risking anything.
 
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