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Banette (Ubers analysis)

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Status: Done: Awaiting Mod Review

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/banette

[OVERVIEW]
<p>If you are building a Trick Room team, Banette is certainly worth looking at for the role of a lead. Whereas it lacks the bulk of traditional Trick Room leads such as Dialga and Bronzong, Banette makes up for it with Shadow Sneak, Destiny Bond, and Insomnia. Therefore, Banette is best characterized as a suicide lead. It possesses better matchups than the aforementioned Pokemon against leads such as Darkrai and Deoxys-S, and has an easier time getting KOes due to Destiny Bond and Shadow Sneak. However, it is definitely more prediction reliant than Dialga and Bronzong, has a worse matchup against Groudon in particular, and can't set up Stealth Rock, so using Banette has its costs.</p>

[SET]
name: Trick Room (Ubers)
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Destiny Bond
move 4: Protect / Will-O-Wisp
item: Focus Sash
ability: Insomnia
nature: Brave
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Due to its unique ability and moveset, Banette is able to get up Trick Room against a litany of enemy leads, and hopefully score a KO with Destiny Bond. Generally speaking, you will want to use Trick Room first, and use Destiny Bond on a predicted attack after your Focus Sash is broken. If your opponent is going to use a support move first, it might be worth using Will-O-Wisp or Shadow Sneak. Against the ubiquitous Deoxys-S, which will likely employ Taunt against Banette, Shadow Sneak is recommended to 2HKO it.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Insomnia is crucial to this set, as it forces Darkrai leads to attack you. It can then use Protect to scout for Trick, use Trick Room, and Destiny Bond for the OHKO, unless you predict that your opponent will switch, in which case you should make a double switch to one of your Trick Room sweepers. Against Shaymin-S, the recommended strategy is to use Protect to lock it into a move (likely Air Slash), and switch to one of your setup Pokemon that resist said move, at which point you can set up Trick Room. Deoxys-A is 2HKOed by Shadow Sneak, and better yet, some Deoxys-A leads may be incapable of damaging you because they only possess Superpower and ExtremeSpeed as attacking moves. If that is the case, using Shadow Sneak is recommended whether they stay in to set up Stealth Rock or they switch. Kyogre is defeated by using Protect to scout out its moveset, using Trick Room as it breaks the Focus Sash, and Destiny Bond to KO it.</p>

<p>It's worth noting that leads such as Dialga and Groudon pose problems for Banette because they can gain momentum for their team by setting up Stealth Rock, and can stall out your turns of Trick Room by using support moves. Indeed, quite a few opponents using other leads may attempt to stall out your Trick Room turns by forcing you to play guessing games about whether they will attack or switch. To counter this, you will need to predict your opponent's intentions, and be ready to switch in one of your sweepers if you think he will switch himself.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set guarantee 2HKOes on Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A with Shadow Sneak. The EVs not allocated to Attack are mainly filler, and thus allocated to HP. Regarding the moveset, you can use Will-O-Wisp if you want to cripple enemy Groudon leads, but Protect is the recommended move to scout for attacks and support moves from the likes of Kyogre, Shaymin-S, Mewtwo, and Darkrai. Finally, Frisk is a near-useless ability, whereas Insomnia is powerful due to Darkrai's prevalence in the Ubers tier.</p>

<p>Banette is designed for use on Trick Room teams, so its teammates should come from the standard suite of Trick Room sweepers and supporters. Bronzong, Dialga, and Mew are excellent Pokemon to help set up Trick Room, and your team should have 2 of them along with Banette (most Trick Room teams have 3 dedicated support Pokemon). As for your sweepers, you should choose Pokemon that can benefit from being "faster" than everyone else in order to focus on their mixed capabilities or gain added bulk. Sweepers such as Rayquaza, Palkia, and Giratina-O can can take advantage of Trick Room by allocating the maximum amount of EVs to both Attack and Special Attack in order to more easily break through stall teams, which are usually the bane of Trick Room. Pokemon such as Groudon and Kyogre also can take advantage of Trick Room by allocating EVs to HP rather than Speed, and maybe even using Swords Dance in the case of Groudon.</p>

[Team Options]
<p>Banette isn't too concerned about weather, with the exception of Sandstorm, which nullifies its Focus Sash. Fortunately, the only lead that summons a Sandstorm in Ubers is Tyranitar, who is not commonly seen. Banette, as a lead, isn't affected by Stealth Rock, nor does it benefit from the move. However, your Trick Room recipients may need the entry hazard in order to procure various KOes. Dialga and Bronzong are great Stealth Rock users on Trick Room teams.</p>

<p>Banette exists to serve Trick Room teams as a suicide lead, so his partners are taken from the standard suite of Trick Room users and abusers. Pokemon such as Dialga, Bronzong, and Mew are great choices for the purpose of setting up Trick Room. On certain teams, Palkia, Cresselia, and Jirachi can also function in such a capacity. As for Trick Room abusers, pokemon such as Rayquaza and Palkia enjoy the field condition, because it enables them to develop their formidable mixed capabilities instead of being concerned with their Speed. They also aren't crippled by paralysis under Trick Room, though becoming fully paralyzed is a nuisance. Additionally, Pokemon such as Groudon and Kyogre can abuse Trick Room to invest EVs in their HP rather than Speed, gaining considerable bulk.</p>

<p>Banette suffers against support leads such as Groudon, Dialga, and Forretress. These Pokemon aren't forced to attack you, and can instead set up Stealth Rock, phaze or status you, and force you to play mindgames about getting your Trick Room abusers onto the field. These Pokemon tend to be a part of stall teams, who have a favorable matchup against Trick Room teams by virtue of the fact that their Pokemon don't mind moving second, and that Trick Room abusers often don't have any stat-boosting moves. It cannot be stressed enough that the rest of your team must be capable of dismantling a stall team. Mixed sweepers such as Rayquaza, Dialga, and Palkia are invaluable in this task.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>One of Banette's problems is that it is a one-trick pony: it has few useful options besides what has already been listed. Taunt can shut down the rare opposing Forretress lead, but isn't good for much else because of Banette's low Speed. Don't try using anything from Banette's meager special movepool; even with max Special Attack EVs, Thunder fails to 2HKO Kyogre, who outspeeds and 2HKOes Banette in return.</p>

[EVs]
<p>The maximum amount of EVs must be allocated to Attack to boost the power of Shadow Sneak, and the minimum possible Speed is necessary for a Trick Room Pokemon. The rest of the EVs are mainly filler.</p>

[Counters]
<p>The worst possible lead a Banette can face is a Forretress. The bagworm is actually slower than Banette, so it benefits from Trick Room. Forretress basically can put up a free layer of entry hazards against Banette, who must switch to another setup Pokemon to avoid giving up any more time to Forretress.</p>

<p>Groudon and Dialga pose problems for Banette due to Stealth Rock, Roar, and other support moves. They are not forced to attack Banette because of these moves, and thus can force the your to play mind games with your opponent, wondering if he will attack or switch.</p>

<p>Other than that, you must focus on beating the Trick Room sweepers that Banette sets up, which is done by attempting to stall out the Trick Room, and then sweeping or focusing on your strategy. Stall teams have a far easier time with this than offensive ones.</p>
 
Log 1:

Matched up against a Giratina-O lead. I die, but not before putting up Trick Room.
Code:
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
firecape01 sent out Giratina-o (lvl 100 Giratina-o).
KOH. sent out Banette (lvl 100 Banette ?).
Banette used Protect.
Banette protected itself!
Giratina-o used Shadow Sneak.
Banette protected itself!
---
Giratina-o used Shadow Sneak.
It's super effective!
Banette lost 76% of its health.
Banette used Trick Room.
Banette twisted the dimensions!
---
Banette used Shadow Sneak.
It's super effective!
Giratina-o lost 30% of its health.
Giratina-o used Shadow Sneak.
It's super effective!
Banette lost 24% of its health.
KOH.'s Banette fainted.
---
KOH. switched in Rayquaza (lvl 100 Rayquaza).
Rayquaza used Draco Meteor.
It's super effective!
Giratina-o lost 70% of its health.
firecape01's Giratina-o fainted.
Rayquaza's special attack was harshly lowered.
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
---
firecape01 switched in Kyogre (lvl 100 Kyogre).
Kyogre's Drizzle caused a storm!
Rain began to fall!
Rayquaza used Outrage.
Rayquaza went on a rampage!
Kyogre lost 100% of its health.
firecape01's Kyogre fainted.
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
firecape01 switched in Palkia (lvl 100 Palkia).
Palkia is exerting its pressure!
Rayquaza used Outrage.
It's super effective!
Palkia lost 100% of its health.
firecape01's Palkia fainted.
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
The twisted dimensions returned to normal!
Rayquaza's rampage ended.
Rayquaza became confused!
The rain continues to fall.
---
firecape01 has left the room.
KOH. wins!

Log 2:
Matched up against a Kyogre lead this game.

Code:
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
KOH. sent out Banette (lvl 100 Banette ?).
chaotic158 sent out Kyogre (lvl 100 Kyogre).
Kyogre's Drizzle caused a storm!
Rain began to fall!
Banette used Protect.
Banette protected itself!
Kyogre used Thunder Wave.
Banette protected itself!
The rain continues to fall.
---
Kyogre used Thunder Wave.
Banette is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Banette used Trick Room.
Banette twisted the dimensions!
The rain continues to fall.
---
KOH. switched in Rayquaza (lvl 100 Rayquaza).
Kyogre used Hydro Pump.
It's not very effective...
Rayquaza lost 41% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
Rayquaza used Outrage.
Rayquaza went on a rampage!
Kyogre lost 89% of its health.
Rayquaza lost 10% of its health.
Kyogre used Ice Beam.
It's super effective!
Rayquaza lost 49% of its health.
KOH.'s Rayquaza fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
---
KOH. switched in Kyogre (lvl 100 Kyogre).
Kyogre's Drizzle caused a storm!
Kyogre used Surf.
It's not very effective...
Kyogre lost 11% of its health.
chaotic158's Kyogre fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
---
chaotic158 switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Blissey used Calm Mind.
Blissey's special attack was raised.
Blissey's special defence was raised.
Kyogre used Waterfall.
Blissey lost 53% of its health.
The twisted dimensions returned to normal!
The rain continues to fall.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
chaotic158 switched in Palkia (lvl 100 Palkia).
Palkia is exerting its pressure!
Kyogre used Waterfall.
It's not very effective...
Palkia lost 15% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
---
Palkia used Spacial Rend.
Kyogre lost 48% of its health.
Kyogre used Thunder.
Palkia lost 47% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Kyogre's leftovers restored its health a little!
Kyogre restored 6% of its health.
---
Palkia used Spacial Rend.
Kyogre lost 50% of its health.
Kyogre used Thunder.
Palkia lost 37% of its health.
chaotic158's Palkia fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
Kyogre's leftovers restored its health a little!
Kyogre restored 6% of its health.
---
chaotic158 switched in Latios (lvl 100 Latios ?).
Latios used Grass Knot.
It's super effective!
Kyogre lost 13% of its health.
KOH.'s Kyogre fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
---
KOH. switched in Banette (lvl 100 Banette ?).
Latios used Draco Meteor.
A critical hit!
Banette lost 100% of its health.
Banette hung on using its Focus Sash!
Latios's special attack was harshly lowered.
Banette used Trick Room.
Banette twisted the dimensions!
The rain continues to fall.
---
chaotic158 switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Banette used Destiny Bond.
Banette is trying to take its foe with it!
The rain continues to fall.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
KOH. switched in Palkia (lvl 100 Palkia).
Palkia is exerting its pressure!
Blissey used Calm Mind.
Blissey's special attack was raised.
Blissey's special defence was raised.
The rain continues to fall.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Ice Beam.
Palkia lost 28% of its health.
Palkia was frozen solid!
Palkia was defrosted!
Palkia used Aqua Tail.
A critical hit!
Blissey lost 65% of its health.
chaotic158's Blissey fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
Palkia's leftovers restored its health a little!
Palkia restored 6% of its health.
---
chaotic158 switched in Wobbuffet (lvl 100 Wobbuffet ?).
Wobbuffet used Encore.
Palkia got an encore!
Palkia used Aqua Tail.
A critical hit!
Wobbuffet lost 66% of its health.
The twisted dimensions returned to normal!
The rain continues to fall.
Wobbuffet's leftovers restored its health a little!
Wobbuffet restored 6% of its health.
Palkia's leftovers restored its health a little!
Palkia restored 6% of its health.
---
Palkia used Aqua Tail.
Wobbuffet lost 40% of its health.
chaotic158's Wobbuffet fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
Palkia's leftovers restored its health a little!
Palkia restored 6% of its health.
---
chaotic158 switched in Latios (lvl 100 Latios ?).
KOH. switched in Banette (lvl 100 Banette ?).
Latios used Draco Meteor.
Banette lost 0% of its health.
KOH.'s Banette fainted.
Latios's special attack was harshly lowered.
The rain continues to fall.
---
KOH. switched in Bronzong (lvl 100 Bronzong).
chaotic158 switched in Mewtwo (lvl 100 Mewtwo).
Mewtwo is exerting its pressure!
Bronzong used Trick Room.
Bronzong twisted the dimensions!
The rain continues to fall.
---
Bronzong used Gyro Ball.
Mewtwo lost 43% of its health.
Mewtwo used Taunt.
Bronzong fell for the taunt!
The rain continues to fall.
---
Bronzong used Explosion.
Mewtwo lost 57% of its health.
chaotic158's Mewtwo fainted.
KOH.'s Bronzong fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
---
KOH. switched in Palkia (lvl 100 Palkia).
chaotic158 switched in Latios (lvl 100 Latios ?).
Palkia is exerting its pressure!
Palkia used Spacial Rend.
It's super effective!
Latios lost 83% of its health.
Latios used Grass Knot.
Palkia lost 60% of its health.
The rain continues to fall.
Palkia's leftovers restored its health a little!
Palkia restored 6% of its health.
---
Palkia used Spacial Rend.
Palkia's attack missed!
Latios used Recover.
Latios restored 50% of its health.
The twisted dimensions returned to normal!
The rain continues to fall.
Palkia's leftovers restored its health a little!
Palkia restored 6% of its health.
---
chaotic158: tough break
Latios used Grass Knot.
Palkia lost 42% of its health.
KOH.'s Palkia fainted.
The rain continues to fall.
---
KOH.: lol
KOH. switched in Dialga (lvl 100 Dialga).
Dialga is exerting its pressure!
chaotic158: NNNNNOOOOO!!!!
Latios used Recover.
Latios restored 33% of its health.
Dialga used Draco Meteor.
It's super effective!
Latios lost 100% of its health.
chaotic158's Latios fainted.
KOH. wins!
KOH.: ggyt
chaotic158 has left the room.h
 
Maxing HP with a Sash is pointless, why not use Thunder with 252/252? It many not 2HKO Kyogre, but still gives great coverage and destroys the occasional Cloyster lead...
 
Protect is a superior option over Thunder simply because of scouting possibilities against more common leads, but I'll take off the HP EVs.
 
If you've mentioned Thunder under OO (even though it can't 2HKO Kyogre), Shadow Claw deserves mention too. It's Banette's strongest attack should it want to go on the offensive under Trick Room (where Shadow Sneak's priority is much less useful), and it hits many Ubers super-effective, most notably Wobbuffet.
 
For Team Options, Dialga makes a good teammate. Dialga resists the Dark and Ghost attacks directed towards Banette and appreciates Trick Room. In turn, Banette can come in on Fighting moves and set up Trick Room again if possible. Dialga also carries a Fire-type move to hit Forretress and resists Shaymin-S's two STAB attacks making it a good switch-in after Protect.

Although already mentioned, Taunt could come quite in handy when facing supporting leads, after using Trick Room, or generally for Forretress (as you stated) and Wobbuffet, forcing them to attack and making Destiny Bond easier to pull off (crippling Forretress and Wobbuffet in this case).

Hope I helped!
 
I'll mention that the Banette player's team should have two pokemon from the group of Bronzong, Dialga, and Mew (the premier Trick Room Pokemon) again in Team Options. Thanks!

Also, in my testing I never had a Wobbuffet enter on Banette, usually because Banette died as it lead / shortly after leading. But I agree that Taunt is useful when facing Groudon, Dialga, Forretress, and a few others.
 
[OVERVIEW]
<p>If you are building a Trick Room team, Banette is certainly worth looking at for the role of a lead. Whereas it lacks the bulk of traditional Trick Room leads such as Dialga and Bronzong, Banette makes up for it with Shadow Sneak, Destiny Bond, and Insomnia. Therefore, Banette is best characterized as a suicide lead. It possesses better matchups than the aforementioned Pokemon against leads such as Darkrai and Deoxys-S, and has an easier time getting KOes due to Destiny Bond and Shadow Sneak. However, it is definitely more prediction reliant than Dialga and Bronzong, has a worse matchup against Groudon in particular, and can't set up Stealth Rock, so using Banette has its costs.</p>

[SET]
name: Trick Room (Ubers)
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Destiny Bond
move 4: Protect / Will-O-Wisp
item: Focus Sash
ability: Insomnia
nature: Brave
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Due to its unique ability and moveset, Banette is able to get up Trick Room against a litany of enemy leads, and hopefully score a KO with Destiny Bond. Generally speaking, you will want to use Trick Room first, and use Destiny Bond on a predicted attack after Banette's Focus Sash is broken. If your opponent is going to use a support move first, it might be worth using Will-O-Wisp or Shadow Sneak. Against the ubiquitous Deoxys-S, which will likely employ Taunt against Banette, Shadow Sneak is recommended to 2HKO it.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Insomnia is crucial to this set, as it forces Darkrai leads to attack Banette. It can then use Protect to scout for Trick, Trick Room, and Destiny Bond for the OHKO, unless you predict that your opponent will switch, in which case you should make a double switch to one of your Trick Room sweepers. Against Shaymin-S, the recommended strategy is to use Protect to lock it into a move (likely Air Slash), and switch to one of your setup Pokemon that resist said move; you can then set up Trick Room. Deoxys-A is 2HKOed by Shadow Sneak, and better yet, some Deoxys-A leads may be incapable of damaging Banette because they only possess Superpower and ExtremeSpeed as attacking moves. If that is the case, using Shadow Sneak is recommended whether they stay in to set up Stealth Rock or they switch. Kyogre is defeated by using Protect to scout out its moveset, using Trick Room as it breaks the Focus Sash, and Destiny Bond to KO it.</p>

<p>It's worth noting that leads such as Dialga and Groudon pose problems for Banette because they can gain momentum for their team by setting up Stealth Rock, and can stall out your turns of Trick Room by using support moves. Quite a few opponents using other leads may attempt to stall out your Trick Room turns by forcing you to play guessing games about whether they will attack or switch. To counter this, you will need to predict your opponent's intentions, and be ready to switch in one of your sweepers if you think they will switch themselves.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set guarantee 2HKOes on Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A with Shadow Sneak. The EVs not allocated to Attack are mainly filler, and thus allocated to HP. Regarding the moveset, you can use Will-O-Wisp if you want to cripple enemy Groudon leads, but Protect is the recommended move to scout for attacks and support moves from the likes of Kyogre, Shaymin-S, Mewtwo, and Darkrai. Frisk is a near-useless ability, whereas Insomnia is powerful due to Darkrai's prevalence in the Ubers tier. [seems kind of redundant to me...it doesn't take a genius to infer that]</p>

<p>Banette is designed for use on Trick Room teams, so its teammates should come from the standard suite of Trick Room sweepers and supporters. Bronzong, Dialga, and Mew are excellent Pokemon to help set up Trick Room, and your team should have 2 of them along with Banette (most Trick Room teams have 3 dedicated support Pokemon). As for your sweepers, you should choose Pokemon that can benefit from being "faster" than every other Pokemon in order to focus on their mixed capabilities or gain additional bulk. Sweepers such as Rayquaza, Palkia, and Giratina-O can can take advantage of Trick Room by allocating the maximum amount of EVs to both Attack and Special Attack in order to more easily break through stall teams, which are usually the bane of Trick Room teams. Pokemon such as Groudon and Kyogre also can take advantage of Trick Room by allocating EVs to HP rather than Speed, and maybe even using Swords Dance in the case of Groudon.</p>

[Team Options]

Coming Soon! Sorry, I just felt a bit lazy about writing this up at the moment because it takes some time to think through.

[Other Options]
<p>One of Banette's problems is that it is a one-trick pony: it has few useful options besides what has already been listed. Taunt can shut down the rare opposing Forretress lead, but isn't good for much else because of Banette's low Speed. Don't try using anything from Banette's meager special movepool; even with max Special Attack EVs, Thunder fails to 2HKO Kyogre, who outspeeds and 2HKOes Banette in return.</p>

[EVs]
<p>The maximum amount of EVs must be allocated to Attack to boost the power of Shadow Sneak, and the minimum possible Speed is necessary for a Trick Room Pokemon. The rest of the EVs are mainly filler.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Forretress is the worst possible lead a Banette can face. Foretress is actually slower than Banette, so it benefits from Trick Room. Forretress basically can put up a free layer of entry hazards against Banette, who must switch to another setup Pokemon to avoid giving up any more time to Forretress.</p>

<p>Groudon and Dialga pose problems for Banette due to Stealth Rock, Roar, and other support moves. They are not forced to attack Banette because of these moves, and thus can force you to play mind games with your opponent, wondering if you should switch or use Destiny Bond.</p>

<p>Other than that, you must focus on beating the Trick Room sweepers that Banette sets up, which is done by attempting to stall out the Trick Room, and then sweeping or focusing on your strategy. Stall teams have a far easier time with this than offensive ones.</p>
 
I have bannette on my trick room team and would like to say that taunt is very useful. It lets you stop people who attack once, (breaking sash) and then switch out to a substituter. overall, I like w-o-w on him, but the accuracy really sucks.
I wouldn't give him any evs except attack, as giving him bulk works against the whole idea.
 
With taunt, you're basically sacrificing a pokemon to taunt the oppositions lead or if you're super awesome at predicting maybe a smidge more. I just don't see it being viable in the case of banette because every competitive pokemon carries one damage causing attack, which will dispatch your banette.

Example:

Deoxys sees banette and uses shadow ball/any other attack since it will wreck banette anyways
*banette hangs on with focus sash*
Banette uses taunt
Deoxys, unharmed at this point, attacks
banette switches out to a counter to that lead.

AT BEST you're just annoying their lead a bit and essentially giving up a pokemon with taunt. Destiny bond is so so so so much the better option...unless you expect them to set up, in which case trick room is nice followed by WoW. I love the set by the OP after about 20 minutes of trying to help your case for taunt out. Sorry, I tried, but couldn't make it work in my little brain.
 
Yeah, the problem with Taunt is that it would never get used. By the time you used it against a support lead, it would already have used Stealth Rock, defeating the purpose. Against Deoxys-S, the optimal strategy is to Shadow Sneak anyways for the 2HKO, since Deo-S will know you have Trick Room and likely use Taunt.
 
Yeah, the problem with Taunt is that it would never get used. By the time you used it against a support lead, it would already have used Stealth Rock, defeating the purpose. Against Deoxys-S, the optimal strategy is to Shadow Sneak anyways for the 2HKO, since Deo-S will know you have Trick Room and likely use Taunt.

no, deoxys usually sr and switch.
it is better to use shadow sneak and then trick room, I know from recent exp.
a foretress doesn't mind a shadow sneak
 
If they SR and switch, even better, since then you've broken the Sash, and kept yours. Since whatever they switch to is unlikely to have Taunt, you can proceed to set up Trick Room and Destiny Bond. I mean, it's basically a prediction game, but it doesn't matter much as long as you get up Trick Room and do some damage.
 
Bumping to say that Team Options is done. I'll do intensive grammar edits tomorrow, then I'll talk to the mods about putting this up.
 
Status: Just about done...except for Team Options. I would like a few more ideas there from you guys.

354.png

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/banette

[OVERVIEW]
<p>If you are building a Trick Room team, Banette is certainly worth looking at for the role of a lead. Whereas it lacks the bulk of the traditional Trick Room leads, Dialga and Bronzong, Banette makes up for it with Shadow Sneak, Destiny Bond, and Insomnia. Therefore, the Ghost is best characterized as a suicide lead. It possesses better matchups than the other two against leads such as Darkrai and Deoxys-S, and has an easier time getting KOes due to Destiny Bond and Shadow Sneak. However, it is definitely more prediction reliant than Dialga and Bronzong, has a worse matchup against Groudon in particular, and can't set up Stealth Rock, so using Banette has its costs.</p>

[SET]
name: Trick Room (Ubers)
move 1: Trick Room
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Destiny Bond
move 4: Protect / Will-O-Wisp
item: Focus Sash
ability: Insomnia
nature: Brave
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Due to its unique ability, combined with its moveset, Banette is able to get up Trick Room against a litany of enemy leads, and hopefully score a KO with Destiny Bond. Generally speaking, you will want to use Trick Room first, and use Destiny Bond on a predicted attack after your Sash is broken. If your opponent is going to use a support move first, it might be worth using Will-O-Wisp or Shadow Sneak. Against the ubiquitous Deoxys-S, which will likely employ Taunt against you, Shadow Sneak is recommended to 2HKO it.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>Insomnia is crucial to this set, as it forces Darkrai leads to attack you. You can then use Protect to scout for Trick, use Trick Room, and Destiny Bond for the OHKO, unless you predict that your opponent will switch, in which case you should make a double switch to one of your Trick Room sweepers. Against Shaymin-S, the recommended strategy is to use Protect to lock it into a move (likely Air Slash), and switch to one of your setup Pokemon that resist said move, at which point you can set up Trick Room. Deoxys-A is 2HKOed by Shadow Sneak, and better yet, some Deoxys-A leads may be incapable of damaging you because they only possess Superpower and ExtremeSpeed as attacking moves. If that is the case, using Shadow Sneak is recommended whether they stay in to set up Stealth Rock or they switch. Kyogre is defeated by using Protect to scout out its moveset, using Trick Room as it breaks the Sash, and Destiny Bond to KO it.</p>

<p>It's worth noting that leads such as Dialga and Groudon pose problems for Banette because they can gain momentum for their team by setting up Stealth Rock, and can stall out your turns of Trick Room by using supporting moves. Indeed, quite a few opponents using other leads may attempt to stall out your Trick Room turns by forcing you to play guessing games about whether they will attack or switch. To counter this, you will need to predict your opponent's intentions, and be ready to switch in one of your sweepers if you think he will switch himself.</p>

<p>The EVs on this set guarantee 2HKOes on Deoxys-S and Deoxys-A with Shadow Sneak. The EVs not allocated to Attack are mainly filler, and thus allocated to HP. Regarding the moveset, you can use Will-O-Wisp if you want to cripple enemy Groudon leads, but Protect is the recommended move (you previously had item here) to scout for attacks and supporting moves from the likes of Kyogre, Shaymin-S, Mewtwo, and Darkrai. Frisk is a near-useless ability, whereas Insomnia is powerful due to Darkrai's prevalence in the Ubers tier.</p>

<p>Banette is designed for use on Trick Room teams, so its teammates should come from the standard suite of Trick Room sweepers and supporters. Bronzong, Dialga, and Mew are excellent Pokemon to help set up Trick Room, and your team should have 2 of them along with Banette (most Trick Room teams have 3 dedicated support Pokemon). As for your sweepers, you should choose Pokemon that can benefit from being "faster" than everyone else in order to focus on their mixed capabilities or gain added bulk. Sweepers such as Rayquaza, Palkia, and Giratina-O can (you had an extra "can" here) take advantage of Trick Room by allocating the maximum amount of EVs to both Attack and Special Attack in order to more easily break through stall teams, which are usually the bane of Trick Room. Pokemon such as Groudon and Kyogre also can take advantage of Trick Room by allocating EVs to HP rather than Speed, and maybe even using Swords Dance in the case of Groudon.</p>

[Team Options]
<p>Banette isn't too concerned about weather, with the exception of Sandstorm, which nullifies its Focus Sash. Fortunately, the only lead that summons a Sandstorm in Ubers is Tyranitar, who is not commonly seen. Banette, as a lead, isn't affected by Stealth Rock, nor does it benefit from the move. However, your Trick Room recipients may need the entry hazard in order to procure various KOes. Dialga and Bronzong are great Stealth Rock users on Trick Room teams.</p>

<p>Banette exists to serve Trick Room teams as a suicide lead, so his partners are taken from the standard suite of Trick Room users and abusers. Pokemon such as Dialga, Bronzong, and Mew are great choices for the purpose of setting up Trick Room. On certain teams, Palkia, Cresselia, and Jirachi can also function in such a capacity. As for Trick Room abusers, pokemon such as Rayquaza and Palkia enjoy the field condition, because it enables them to develop their formidable mixed capabilities instead of being concerned with their Speed. They also aren't crippled by paralysis under Trick Room, though becoming fully paralyzed is a nuisance. Additionally, Pokemon such as Groudon and Kyogre can abuse Trick Room to invest EVs in their HP rather than Speed, gaining considerable bulk.</p>

<p>Banette suffers against support leads such as Groudon, Dialga, and Forretress. These Pokemon aren't forced to attack you, and can instead set up Stealth Rock, phaze or status you, and force you to play mind games (you had mindgames but it's actually two separate words) about getting your Trick Room abusers onto the field. These Pokemon tend to be a part of stall teams, who have a favorable matchup against Trick Room teams by virtue of the fact that their Pokemon don't mind moving second, and that Trick Room abusers often don't have any stat-boosting moves. It cannot be stressed enough that the rest of your team must be capable of dismantling a stall team. Mixed sweepers such as Rayquaza, Dialga, and Palkia are invaluable in this task.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>One of Banette's problems is that he is a one-trick pony: he has few useful options besides what has already been listed. Taunt can shut down the rare opposing Forretress lead, but isn't good for much else because of Banette's low speed. Don't try using anything from Banette's meager special movepool: even with max Special Attack EVs, Thunder fails to 2HKO Kyogre, who outspeeds and 2HKOes you in return.</p>

[EVs]
<p>The maximum amount of EVs must be allocated to Attack to boost the power of Shadow Sneak, and the minimum possible Speed is necessary for a Trick Room Pokemon. The rest of the EVs are mainly filler.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Forretress is the worst possible lead a Banette can face. The bagworm is actually slower than Banette, so it benefits from Trick Room. Forretress basically can put up a free layer of entry hazards against Banette, who must switch to another setup Pokemon to avoid giving up any more time to Forretress.</p>

<p>Groudon and Dialga pose problems for Banette due to Stealth Rock, Roar, and other supporting moves. They are not forced to attack Banette because of these moves, and thus can force the Banette user to play mind game with his opponent, wondering if he should switch or use Destiny Bond.</p>

<p>Other than that, you must focus on beating the Trick Room sweepers that Banette sets up, which is done by attempting to stall out the Trick Room, and then sweeping or focusing on your strategy. Stall teams have a far easier time of this than offensive ones.</p>



Some minor nitpicks in bold that have been missed. Overall looks like a well-written set, good job!
 
In the counters section you have "force the Banette user to play mind game with his opponent", when it should be mind games. Unless ofcourse, you meant, "to play a mind game with his opponent", but it's just something I noticed. Otherwise, this is cool, good job.
 
This pokemon and this set are really awesome, especially for common Uber leaders, either set up trick room or KO opponent's leader.
 
Moved to Quality Control for the time being because me and Theorymon are unsure of Banette's viability.
 
Sorry mtr, but after finally testing this set, I am going to have to reject it. Sure, it may beat Deoxys-S and sort of beat Darkrai, and there might not be any other Trick Room leads in Ubers, but thats the point: since Trick Room only lasts 5 turns, I find it to be best used in Ubers by Pokemon that can also abuse it (like Dialga and Bronzong). fact is, Banette's physical movepool is really poor, so there are several Pokemon it just cant get past. So now you got usually got 3 turns to do much of anything, and being that early in the game, they may have a counter for your sweeper. I felt that my TR team did better when it had a non TR lead.

I am always open to retesting it if I am shown proof of its worthiness, but for now I am gonna have to say no.
 
[5:20pm] ibojangles: theorymon, i agree with your post
[5:20pm] Theorymon: fyi the point I was trying to get across
[5:21pm] Theorymon: is that TRers in Ubers need to be able to kick ass (like Bronzong, Dialga, and Palkia)
[5:21pm] ibojangles: yeah
[5:21pm] Theorymon: and this thing gets walled
[5:21pm] ibojangles: banette is too weak to make use of tr itself
[5:21pm] ibojangles: yeah
[5:21pm] ibojangles: i will post saying i agree

In agreement with Theorymon.

EDIT: To elaborate, Banette can't do much with the limited 5 turns outside of die. It's weak offenses means that it can barely do damage itself, meaning that turns are wasted providing for safe switches in for you TR abusers. Other TR users, like Dialga can work, because they are strong enough to abuse TR themselves, like how TR Dialga can deal heavy damage with its mixed set. Maybe if in 5th Gen we get a TR Damp Rock equivalent (shot in the dark here), this could be viable, but in this gen, I just don't see this working effectively.
 
It appears to me that a large issue regarding Banette was that the set didn't provide a way for it to actually suicide so that a TR abuser can be brought in. However, I noticed that Banette learns Curse, which could make up for this. Although I distrust Banette's overall viability, I would like to see this move tested.
 
I am still very unsure about its viability... but from a few rounds of testing, having Curse and Taunt over Dbond and the last slot worked a HELL of a lot better, due to Curse being a more reliabile way for Banette to kill its self. Again, this might not be viable, but its working much better than the one here. I'll Update when I test it for a few more days.
 
All right, that's cool. My idea with Banette was a TR lead that could better handle other enemy leads (though admittedly at the cost of SR and some offensive prowess).
 
Alright I have gone through the trouble of testing the Curse version more... while it is still much better than the Destiny Bond one, I still feel that Banette shouldn't get an Ubers analysis. The main reason is that even when using teams based around, the Pokemon that were sweeping in Trick Room were always the Trick Room users (being Bronzong, Dialga, and Palkia). Often times I had to weaken opposing teams a bit to do this, so Trick Rooming that early in the match wasn't really worth the price of a
lead.
 
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