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Battle Spot Teambuilding Discussion & Help Thread (read post #453, page 19)
- Thread starter ethan06
- Start date
Why is Clefable a given? It doesn't show up in Venusaur's top 12 most common teammates on the PGL, nor have I heard of it being a particularly good teammate either. Do you just like it and really want to use it?
The most obvious thing to do is bring a Talonflame / Mega Salamence / other Flying-type check as these are basically the only things that can flat out muscle through Mega Venusaur due to Flying being the most exploitable of his two weaknesses. Rotom-W / Rotom-H would be my go-to partners for this. Tyranitar is also great for Talonflame and even gets the Psychic immunity (Mega Venusaur's only other weakness). That's about all I can offer as I'm admittedly not very experienced with Mega Venusaur. I looked around to see if I could find a successful team that used Mega Venusaur so you could use that as inspiration and found two that looked really interesting:
Http://Koheibrain.Hatenadiary.Jp/entry/2015/07/16/173947
looks like it's centred around the notorious Hippowdon / Dragonite / Lucario core, so Venusaur isn't the centrepiece. They've gone with Rotom-W as their Talonflame check, although I wouldn't use Scarf without Hidden Power Ice since all it can do is Will-O-Wisp Mega Salamence and then switch out (unless you can Trick something before that).
Http://Reitoika.Hatenablog.Com/entry/2015/07/15/003745
This is another team centering around a core with Mega Venusaur as a backup, this time it's the Chansey / Gliscor / Mega Slowbro defensive core. Using three Megas is pretty uncommon but with this team they would all serve as different answers to the main core's threats, for example, in this team Mega Venusaur helps take on Mega Gyarados.
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I agree that you should get yourself a Ditto for breeding so you can go for perfect stats (instead of settling for what you've got). Check out my Helpful Links thread for Ditto giveaways.
Hidden Power Fire is a good move for Venusaur. Wish Clefable isn't a great set in BSS, you'll usually want to go with Minimize Clef. You'll need at least one answer to Talonflame; Rotom-Wash works like a charm, and its Grass weakness is covered up by Venusaur. This core is pretty Mega Gengar weak, however. Might I suggest Landorus-Therian? It outspeeds Mega Gengar with a Choice Scarf, and also has Stone Edge to hit Talonflame ridiculously hard. That's all I got.
EDIT: cant say sniper no sniping
cant say how does clefable beats rotom-h 1-1? And for the guy who wanted to use full cleric clefable, i was really stubborn to use it too, but im glad that i changed it too an unaware clefable with moonblast, healing wish, thunderwave and fire blast. Healing wish paired with thunderwave gives so much momentum and it is often (but not always) better than full cleric because its faster and you dont have to switch to give health back.
That's almost exactly my Clefable's moveset, I just have Moonlight instead of Fire Blast. I really like Healing Wish, and it pairs very well with T-Wave. It's also a lot better than giving up three move slots to be a full cleric.
As for your team, Lugiafan234, I'd use use Leech Seed on Venusaur. HP Fire is pretty weak, and means you lose the speed tie to other I invested base 80s. Best to just have something else with fire type coverage. A Tyranitar would make sense, and I can tell you like them. Tyranitar is immune to psychic, and resists poison and flying. Both Pokemon already on your team also resist fighting, Tyranitar's biggest weakness, and don't compound many weaknesses besides. Thundurus definitely makes sense a as well, since it resists flying and KOs Talonflame.
It's kind of hard to give suggestions when you're only decided on two Pokemon, since there's a lot that could work. My team has both a Mega Venusaur and a Clefable, maybe you can draw inspiration from that? My team's pretty weird though-Mega Venusaur, Clefable, Rotom-W, Chandelure, Porygon2, and Aurorus(see my RMT for their sets.)
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Aurorus!? Really? How can you make that work? What is your ingame battlespot ranking? Im at 1650 now.
Not that high, lol. I'm still trying to figure out what I want my team to be, though I'm mostly sure and have been winning a decent amount with the above team, though I rarely use Aurorus and when I do it sometimes accomplishes nothing(or trades its life to paralyze one thing), so it probably has to go. I haven't actually played in game yet, since I'm not completely decided on a team(though at this point I think I'll just find a good replacement for Aurorus and be done.)
I definitely like that set. I was breeding for a Rotom with 31/0/30/31/31/31 for HP Ice, and I got one with those IVs except the Def, which is 31. That gives HP Dragon, which is no good, but since the IVs are perfect for any Rotom bar the crappy HP, should I just use that one? If so, what's a good move to run over HP Ice? Will-o-Wisp wasn't bad, exactly, but it is only really good if I've tricked my scarf away, and there have been plenty of battles where I don't get an opportunity to do so. Maybe Discharge, since my team likes paralysis support, though I already have an electric attack. Also, I'm guessing if f I use this Rotom I should move 4 EVs from Def to SpD since it'd have an odd Def.
P.S. My team is super different from the one on here with Mega Houndoom, so would it make sense to use a defensive Rotom? My team's Mega Vensaur, Clefable, Rotom-W, Chandelure, Skarmory, and Porygon2.
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I'm looking for advice for a 6th pokemon for my battlespot singles team, as well as any criticism of the current sets I have. I appreciate any ideas given. These 5 have won me a lot of battles, single highhandedly even, and I've tried Rhyperior, Krookodile, Bisharp and Greninja as a 6th member but rarely end up using them.
This team really has a problem with Azumaril and Cressalia. Scizzor checks Azumaril so really I need somethign to counter Cresselia.
Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Low Kick
Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Swords Dance
Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Superpower
This team really has a problem with Azumaril and Cressalia. Scizzor checks Azumaril so really I need somethign to counter Cresselia.
Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Low Kick
Blaziken @ Blazikenite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Flare Blitz
- High Jump Kick
- Swords Dance
Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Superpower
I'd suggest some Taunt support (Thundurus?) . Something that Wisp Azumarill and stop Cresselia from Moonlight healing. Maybe change your Scizor item to abuse its move pool. It could do the job on both.
The other options may be Gengar, Aegislash Mega Mawile or Amoonguss. Maybe consider a double Mega team?
I'm not seeing a problem with Cresselia here. The only real problems I see with the listed Pokémon are the EVs-It certainly makes sense to go 252/4/252 on Weavile, but a lot of Pokémon prefer more complex EV spreads that allow them to survive/have a better chance to survive some popular attacks like Talon's Brave Bird and Chomp's Outrage, while still preserving power and speed-and Thundy's item-Sitrus Berry doesn't makes sense for a fully offensive variant. Your team looks really good, I'm not sure what it really needs help with it in the last slot. Possibly Mega Venusaur, but that's a stretch. WoW variants of Rotom-W can also be a problem. I just realized you have no way to hit through subs or avoid Sleep-inducing moves(granted Suicune can function asleep, but that's just one Pokémon, aand with a grass weakness to boot.) With all that in mind, running a second Mega(Gardevoir takes care of Venusaur, sub users, and Rotom-W, more or less), or using something with Taunt(to stop Spore users and Pokes like Gliscor) that beats Venusaur and Rotom-W.
Here is good if you need to fill holes or are just starting out.
Hi everyone, could you please RMT?
This team has given me good results. Even though I didn’t have too much time to play before, it always brought me to the 1700s. Now I have more free time. So I would like to keep improving it. Here it is:
Salamence (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 244 HP / 196 Atk / 20 Def / 4 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
Mega Salamence is my favorite mega in this format. The ev spread seems a little odd and I think it can be improved. I run 196 Evs in Atk to get the last boost jump with Adamant nature. 44 Spe to outspeed +1, positive natured, 80 base Speed mons like Dragonite and Gardevoir after a DD, and everything below (like Adamant scarf Lando). I like bulky Salamence so I invest a lot in Hp with 1 point less from Max to avoid more SR damage (stealth rock is still somewhat common), and the rest in Defense. The moveset is Standard; the only thing is that I run Return (or even Frustration) over Double-edge because the recoil doesn´t feel right in bulky mence.
Suicune @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 12 Atk / 30 SpA
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Rest
Standard Crocune. It is very effective and it deserves its spot in the 12 most used things. The set looks like this because I managed to Sred one with this spread (30/x/31/30/31/31) and I wasn’t going to toss it. I feel doubts about the item, but so far the chesto berry has been more useful than leftovers. I haven´t tested rocky helmet yet though. Sleep talk is kind of situational and ice beam seems better in this format.
Garchomp (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
The king of BSS! And this is the Standard lead set. It is really effective, It tends to take down a mon and weaken the other for its teammates. I like it more than the Scarf variant to be honest. Moveset wise, OR and EQ are mandatory. I like SD because if it gets one It can even take down checks like Lando-T or Rotom-W. The final move is weird, more in conjunction with SD. I Have used Rock tomb and Rock slide in the past, but most of the times I didn´t find a reason to click them when I had OR. SR works nice in longer matches where your opponent is forced to switch from time to time, and is a good option when he is going to switch to something like Porygon2 or Cress (things that you can´t take one on one even after a SD boost).
So far I have three mons that are consistent but I´m really weak to other Dragons, fairies and physically defensive walls with ice beam like Cress. So the next mon was a non-brain.
Aegislash (F) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield
Aegislash synergizes quite well with the Dragons. The set is from the BSS section and I use this one because, well it was the first thing that I managed to breed that required 6 ivs (when I didn’t have the right dittos) with matching ball, EMS and everything. I said this because when It’s about Aegislash it is sometimes good to run a less common set, as this thing can run a million of different, yet effective, sets. For example, a substitute-toxic set has given me some troubles; it’s the variant of Aegislash that this one can´t take one on one (because the opponent it’s faster and can force you into blade form while he tries to set a Sub). Other than that, in its shield form this thing can take an attack from Gengar (you can even switch into it at full) and K.O it back after the Weakness policy boosts.
Lopunny (M) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Ice Punch
Reading some articles here I´ve learned that it is advisable to run a secondary mega, in case that the first one has a bad matchup. I choose Lopunny in virtue of its amazing synergy with Aegislash and because it can beat Mega Kanga and it’s faster than Mega Gengar. The Set, again Standard, works well when I have to bring him. But a Bad prediction or a bad switching (ones that I tend to make, LOL) can cost you the match, as it’s so frail and for you to lose your mega like that it’s terrible. The first three moves are, I think, mandatory (even with HJK being risky with that, ONLY APPARENT, 90 % accuracy). What I don´t know is if Ice punch its really necessary. I have used healing wish instead and it can be really useful on a fast mon, though situational. For example, when Lopunny can´t do nothing you can Heal your Aegislash if it has gotten weak without activating its Weakness Policy. All in all, I like Loppuny a lot, but I was thinking in replacing it. However, I don´t know with what.
I´m still a noob, and I have gotten into competitive when I bought my 3DS the past Christmas. So I may not see some things that can be obvious for you guys. But even a noob like me can see that Thundurus, a really common guy, can eat me alive. Talonflame could also give me problems. I´ve been changing the last mon from time to time because of that. Something, very niche, but that has worked well for me, for that purpose, is this.
Rotom-Heat @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 108 HP / 196 SpA / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Rotom-H is my favorite form of Rotom, but it is hard to justify its usage when Rotom-W is available. My thought process was this. Rotom H, as Rotom-W, resists both of Bird´s Stabs, but It can take on Thundurus better, as it also resists Thunderbolt and the latter can´t touch it with Hp ice or Grass knot either. Swagger and Substitute may be things to watch out, so I think that it’s not a good idea to lock yourself into Overheat right off the bat (Tbolt, or Hp ice if your opponent has Chomp in the back, being better). The Evs, I suppose, could be optimized by someone more experienced. The Hp ones are so it can take two Brave Birds from Banded Talonflame. The Spa to get the last boost in Spa with boosting nature. I put the rest in Speed, as it’s not a good idea to being too slow with a Choiced Mon.
Item wise, I like the Specs, and I must say that this little guy has done its job dealing really well with Thundurus. I don´t know if a bulky Spread with Sitrus could be better. I didn’t considered it at the time because I thought that, that way, it would only be an inferior Rotom-W.
So, this it’s my team. I was looking to improve it before starting to play again (I only played a little bit up to late 1500s I think). As I say, I´m quite the noob and English is not my main, so I apologize for some things that I could have written wrong. I appreciate the help. Happy holydays to everyone!
cant say says: just use the importable format from Pokemon Showdown, it makes it much easier for us to read and evaluate :)
This team has given me good results. Even though I didn’t have too much time to play before, it always brought me to the 1700s. Now I have more free time. So I would like to keep improving it. Here it is:
Salamence (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 244 HP / 196 Atk / 20 Def / 4 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
Mega Salamence is my favorite mega in this format. The ev spread seems a little odd and I think it can be improved. I run 196 Evs in Atk to get the last boost jump with Adamant nature. 44 Spe to outspeed +1, positive natured, 80 base Speed mons like Dragonite and Gardevoir after a DD, and everything below (like Adamant scarf Lando). I like bulky Salamence so I invest a lot in Hp with 1 point less from Max to avoid more SR damage (stealth rock is still somewhat common), and the rest in Defense. The moveset is Standard; the only thing is that I run Return (or even Frustration) over Double-edge because the recoil doesn´t feel right in bulky mence.
Suicune @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 12 Atk / 30 SpA
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Rest
Standard Crocune. It is very effective and it deserves its spot in the 12 most used things. The set looks like this because I managed to Sred one with this spread (30/x/31/30/31/31) and I wasn’t going to toss it. I feel doubts about the item, but so far the chesto berry has been more useful than leftovers. I haven´t tested rocky helmet yet though. Sleep talk is kind of situational and ice beam seems better in this format.
Garchomp (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
The king of BSS! And this is the Standard lead set. It is really effective, It tends to take down a mon and weaken the other for its teammates. I like it more than the Scarf variant to be honest. Moveset wise, OR and EQ are mandatory. I like SD because if it gets one It can even take down checks like Lando-T or Rotom-W. The final move is weird, more in conjunction with SD. I Have used Rock tomb and Rock slide in the past, but most of the times I didn´t find a reason to click them when I had OR. SR works nice in longer matches where your opponent is forced to switch from time to time, and is a good option when he is going to switch to something like Porygon2 or Cress (things that you can´t take one on one even after a SD boost).
So far I have three mons that are consistent but I´m really weak to other Dragons, fairies and physically defensive walls with ice beam like Cress. So the next mon was a non-brain.
Aegislash (F) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield
Aegislash synergizes quite well with the Dragons. The set is from the BSS section and I use this one because, well it was the first thing that I managed to breed that required 6 ivs (when I didn’t have the right dittos) with matching ball, EMS and everything. I said this because when It’s about Aegislash it is sometimes good to run a less common set, as this thing can run a million of different, yet effective, sets. For example, a substitute-toxic set has given me some troubles; it’s the variant of Aegislash that this one can´t take one on one (because the opponent it’s faster and can force you into blade form while he tries to set a Sub). Other than that, in its shield form this thing can take an attack from Gengar (you can even switch into it at full) and K.O it back after the Weakness policy boosts.
Lopunny (M) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Ice Punch
Reading some articles here I´ve learned that it is advisable to run a secondary mega, in case that the first one has a bad matchup. I choose Lopunny in virtue of its amazing synergy with Aegislash and because it can beat Mega Kanga and it’s faster than Mega Gengar. The Set, again Standard, works well when I have to bring him. But a Bad prediction or a bad switching (ones that I tend to make, LOL) can cost you the match, as it’s so frail and for you to lose your mega like that it’s terrible. The first three moves are, I think, mandatory (even with HJK being risky with that, ONLY APPARENT, 90 % accuracy). What I don´t know is if Ice punch its really necessary. I have used healing wish instead and it can be really useful on a fast mon, though situational. For example, when Lopunny can´t do nothing you can Heal your Aegislash if it has gotten weak without activating its Weakness Policy. All in all, I like Loppuny a lot, but I was thinking in replacing it. However, I don´t know with what.
I´m still a noob, and I have gotten into competitive when I bought my 3DS the past Christmas. So I may not see some things that can be obvious for you guys. But even a noob like me can see that Thundurus, a really common guy, can eat me alive. Talonflame could also give me problems. I´ve been changing the last mon from time to time because of that. Something, very niche, but that has worked well for me, for that purpose, is this.
Rotom-Heat @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 108 HP / 196 SpA / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Rotom-H is my favorite form of Rotom, but it is hard to justify its usage when Rotom-W is available. My thought process was this. Rotom H, as Rotom-W, resists both of Bird´s Stabs, but It can take on Thundurus better, as it also resists Thunderbolt and the latter can´t touch it with Hp ice or Grass knot either. Swagger and Substitute may be things to watch out, so I think that it’s not a good idea to lock yourself into Overheat right off the bat (Tbolt, or Hp ice if your opponent has Chomp in the back, being better). The Evs, I suppose, could be optimized by someone more experienced. The Hp ones are so it can take two Brave Birds from Banded Talonflame. The Spa to get the last boost in Spa with boosting nature. I put the rest in Speed, as it’s not a good idea to being too slow with a Choiced Mon.
Item wise, I like the Specs, and I must say that this little guy has done its job dealing really well with Thundurus. I don´t know if a bulky Spread with Sitrus could be better. I didn’t considered it at the time because I thought that, that way, it would only be an inferior Rotom-W.
So, this it’s my team. I was looking to improve it before starting to play again (I only played a little bit up to late 1500s I think). As I say, I´m quite the noob and English is not my main, so I apologize for some things that I could have written wrong. I appreciate the help. Happy holydays to everyone!
cant say says: just use the importable format from Pokemon Showdown, it makes it much easier for us to read and evaluate :)
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Nice team. One thing I'm always wary is sub users. For the purpose of hitting through subs, you could opt to run Snarl on Suicune. Dark/Water also has better neutral coverage than ice/water. Snarl is weaker than Ice Beam, and not one hundred percent accurate(though 95% is still really god), but it always lowers the foe's SpA, which isn't actually redundant with Calm Mind since lowering the foe's SpA 1 statge will more often than not reduce the damage they do to you by more than raising your own SpD one stage, since they'll likely be invested in SpA, but you are not invested in SpD. I agree with Rotom-H over Rotom-W for your team(or, at the very least, am not opposed to it,) though I'd recommend using the Battle Spot Speed Tiers Thread when making EV spreads. Your Rotom-H reaches 132 spe at lvl 50-that speed ties with high speed base 80s. I'd either increase to 135 spe to outspeed max spe base 70s, or drop down to 128 to outspeed(or maybe even further) to outspeed high spe base 75s. I'd go for a different move than Ice Punch for Lopunny since -1 Lopunny's Ice Punch is very unlikely to OHKO even 0/4 Salamence, and your team seems safe enough from enemy Chomps. Encore is good move, or you could go back to Healing Wish, which I really like(I use it on my Clefable.)
thank you for your input :). I've never thought in Snarl, and based on what you say it seems worth to test it.. That Sub Aegislash was hard to beat, but once you see Leftovers on it there will be absolutely no risk in going for Snarl. I will also re Ev train my Rotom-h as you recommend, with more speed for this specs variant at least and with more bulk if I ever try Will o wisp and Sitrus.
You are absolutely right with Ice punch on Lopunny, It even fails to O.K. some Lando-Ts. Humm, I like Encore but Healing Wish seems more helpful In this Offensive Meta. I don´t know if something like Power up punch would be worth it. I think it may but as your opponent tends to go to his rocky Helmet, physically defensive Wall on it, sometimes it's just better to simply attack or pull a double rather than Set up.
You're welcome:) I'm especially glad you like the idea of Snarl-its a very underrated move, IMO. I'd stay away from PuP on Lopunny because of the low base poer and redundant coverage. It definitely makes some sense, but Mega Lopunny would rather have something like Sybstitute since its not bulky enough(courtesy of its HP) to boost against the opponent rather than deal as much damage as possible, or mess with the opponent. Otherwise, Cosmic Power would probably see more use on Mega Lopunny.
Mega Venusaur checks both Azu and Cres really nicely so I would run that as your second mega (you're not going to use Mega Blaziken in a battle against a team with those two anyway).
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic
- Synthesis
Walls Azu and Toxic stalls Cres. It also helps against Rotom-W who you currently don't have anything to kill with, and Breloom which can be annoying for your team also.
There is not a reason for a single one of his Pokemon to opt for a more complex spread, literally all of them prefer the max/max spread. Sitrus Berry is actually the most used item on Thundurus (55%) and it is especially helpful on Nasty Plot sets. It also allows it to better check Talonflame by stopping it from being 2HKOed, which is a massive threat to this team without it. I don't agree with the suggestion of Mega Gardevoir, I think you're way too afraid of Sub users. You realise that creating a Sub takes away health, right? If you keep breaking them then the user keeps losing health too...
I fixed the format for all the mons, it just makes it way easier for us to look over the sets.
Have you thought about Substitute over Earthquake on Salamence? The loss of coverage sucks a bit, but bulky Salamence with Roost and Sub is able to setup way more DDs than the regular 252atk / 252 spe one, so Return can usually bust through resists with enough boosts. Flash Cannon / Iron Head is preferable on the Weakness Policy set (I think), and you need it for punishing Fairies since you have two Dragons on your team.
In regards to what I'm going to say below; do not use Snarl on Suicune. It's not even that helpful against Sub Aegislash since you can just Calm Mind on it (and Rest off Toxic) so Snarl is totally redundant...
On Specs Rotom I usually just go max HP/SpA with no Speed...
I'm sorry but this is terrible advice. Snarl on Suicune is a really dumb idea, especially over Ice Beam! One of (Phys Def) Suicune's best traits is being able to beat Mega Mence / Garchomp / Landorus-T and retaliate with a KO from Ice Beam. Opting for a pitifully weak Snarl over it to hit through Subs (which I've already said you're way too scared of) is ridiculous.
re: the bolded text; I don't think you understand how the damage mechanics work... it doesn't matter whether the opponent is invested in SpA or you are in SpD, a -1 SpA move will do the same damage to you as if you were +1 SpD due to the way that multipliers work:
- 252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 90-108 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
- -1 252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 90-108 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
- 252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 144-170 (69.5 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- -1 252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 144-170 (69.5 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 51-60 (24.6 - 28.9%) -- 99.2% chance to 4HKO
- -1 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 51-60 (24.6 - 28.9%) -- 99.2% chance to 4HKO
Thanks, I've opted for a Life Orb on Scizor and replaced Knock Off with Swords Dance as an option.
The Sitrus Berry has come in handy but alternatively what do you suggest? Maybe a choice scarf but I'd need to change the moveset then. Thanks for the taunt idea.
Thanks a lot, I'll give that Venusaur a whirl.
Shocking about the Thundurus. I guess Sitrus Berry is as good as anything for it. It's bulky enough that LO hurts its survivability(and I'm guessing it's overkill on NP sets) quite a bit, and it doesn't need Focus Sash, but frail enough that it's a bad candidate for your Lefties slot, or a Weakness Policy(and it would be a pretty bad WP user even with Registeel's bulk since it has only two weaknesses. I just never really thought about it, is all-I've seen Thundy's gain health with Sitrus on PS, but I guess I just never paid it any mind. Mega Gardevoir wasn't really a proper suggestion, it just immediately sprang to mind as a way to deal with the threats to this team I listed, though it seems some of them may have been unwarranted. IDK why exactly I'm so paranoid about subs-I haven't been swept by a Gliscor since BSS in Pokémon X like 2 years or so ago. I know subs take health, but there are Pokes that run sub with Protect passive recovery-mainly Gliscor, but virtually anything is capable of it. I've even seen it on Swampert and Thundy(though even I'm not gonna recommend that.) Taunt on even just one Pokémon is probably sufficient for handling SubStall-I go overboard.
I did not know that about damage calcs, or even thought to check since I just assumed lowering a higher SpA stat would decrease damage by more than raising a lower SpD stat. Thanks for telling me. I guess we've covered subs, and with this new nugget of knowledge, I rescind my suggestion for Scald on Suicune(maybe ove Sleep Talk with a Chesto Berry, but not over Ice Beam-I loved ice type coverage even before it was as important as it is now, so I shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.)
I did think about Fake Out letting Lopunny get the KO on mence with Ice Punch, but for whatever reason forgot to consider DE recoil(again with me and the ice moves LoL.) Even so, the last two moveslots for Lopunny are really flexible(not HJK and Return), so there aren't really any right answers. This team is definitely bulky enough to appreciate Healing Wishes, you can never go wrong with Encore, and Lopunny is a great user of Substitute with it's great spe and ability to attract status moves. Then there are other options, including more niche ones like Magic Coat and Last Resort. Fake Out and Ice punch for the last two slots is most certainly the standard though, and no one can fault you for using them
I'll definitely do my homework before a make suggestions for a team next time-my instint's not what I thought.
cs edit: you broke the quote box
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wait, so is your set now: Life Orb with Bullet Punch, U-turn, Swords Dance and Superpowr? That isn't a really cohesive set. bobochan currently has this set in his analysis of Scizor over in our C&C section, perhaps try that out?
Scizor @
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 28 Def / 116 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
-
- Knock Off
-
I've worked off your original set and struck out what I've removed and bolded what I've added. Steel + Dark is great coverage, what sets this apart from Bisharp is Roost, reliable priority in Bullet Punch (as opposed to Sucker Punch) and better defensive typing.
I use Life Orb with Thunder Wave over Nasty Plot. Tbh though just stick with Sitrus Berry but maybe use Thunder Wave, it's one of Thund's best assets!
My mistake, I forgot to mention I changed the moves too.
I went with
- Bullet Punch
- But Bite
- Superpower
- Swords Dance
the set you mentioned is better come to think of it
That should be OK I think. You shouldn't miss the Knock off utility. (I would have slashed Pursuit with it too.)
Superpower doesn't hit anything relevant whereas Knock Off gives great neutral coverage alongside Bullet Punch (notably OHKOes Thundurus after a SD). SP is really only used on Banded sets
Thank you for helping me with my post cant say, it do looks prettier. :) I understand what you say about dropping EQ and use Sub instead on Mega mence. I remember a battle where I switch in Mence in a EQ choice locked Lando-T. My opponent brought in his Ttar and I DD up on the switch. Then, predicting him to go back Lando (for the Intimidate) I went for Return but he stayed in. Still, after the boost, Return 2 K.O him (and he couldn´t K.O this variant with Ice Punch). So, definitely, enough boosts pierce through everything.
About Aegislash, I think you also have a point. I mean, running sacred Sword has helped me out with things like Chansey, but they couldn’t touch me anyway (they tend to run Seismic Toss as their only attacking move) and the battle should have ended in the same way. Flash Canon seems more logical as I invest in Spa, but do you think that Iron head could be used for the Specially bulky things? What would you recommend the most?
Finally, I do like the Specs Rotom-H a lot, and I was thinking in maximizing Spa because that way the boosts from these items are more notable. I still don´t know if it’s better to run Max Speed (or close to it) instead of Max Hp to outspeed Any type of Breelom (Well, except the Scarf variant but that one is not very common).
About Aegislash, I think you also have a point. I mean, running sacred Sword has helped me out with things like Chansey, but they couldn’t touch me anyway (they tend to run Seismic Toss as their only attacking move) and the battle should have ended in the same way. Flash Canon seems more logical as I invest in Spa, but do you think that Iron head could be used for the Specially bulky things? What would you recommend the most?
Finally, I do like the Specs Rotom-H a lot, and I was thinking in maximizing Spa because that way the boosts from these items are more notable. I still don´t know if it’s better to run Max Speed (or close to it) instead of Max Hp to outspeed Any type of Breelom (Well, except the Scarf variant but that one is not very common).