Rules Battle Stadium Forum Rules & Simple Questions

NeoShinron

I COULD BE BANNED!
Taunt or Prankster work well, or ofc both. Grimmsnarl can do that, or even Trick a Lagging Tail so they always go last. Dual screens is good.

Just to ask.... Why is dual screens specifically good against trick room?
I'm definitely a fan of having screens up in general (although my current team can't do that, I'm still hunting Gigantimax Lapras)

Is it just to give you added bulk so you hopefully survive through the room turns?

Also -(And sorry to go so tangentially off in left field here but....)

I'm thinking of taking swords dance off Blaziken - But keeping Baton Pass...
This would mean that I then am only gonna get a boost off weakness policy (if I even run that) - But after many battles with my baton pass team.... I gotta say...
Zacian @ +3 ATK is enough to handle almost every threat in the game except for Ditto & Quagsire...

At the end of the day.... My ideal team would consist of Blaziken & 2 Legendary's that all have Baton Pass.... The idea being... Instead of just "switching" like everyone else... We just switch & keep our stat boosts. Unfortunately, my current research has led me to Latios & Latias...... And they're just.... Middling pokemon this format... Although - They are actually really good switches for Zacian, being immune to ground & resistant to fire...

I'm looking at bulbapedia as we speak.... And WOW - Zapdos can use baton pass....
(As if that ****er didn't irk me enough already....He does what I wanna do better than me.....

So anyway - If I take swords dance off Blaziken, then, the only boost I pass on via baton pass would be his speed boost, which is arguably very nice when passed to Zacian.... Zacian @ +1 speed outspeeds.... everything that's not a gimmick.


The thing is.... I think I'm starting to realize that baton pass might not actually be viable at high-levels of play.

Forgive me for what I am about to do - But I'm going to write my personal Baton Pass Diatribe right here... On Smogon....
I'll go over what's been working.... And what hasn't... If nothing else this is a record of one newb's attempt to make a team from scratch (in a format that is apparently very skill-intensive because of the recent additions of Zacian & other broken Ubers....)

I will do that in the next post.... Because.... As usual..... The above is a mess.... Just like my team.
 
Just to ask.... Why is dual screens specifically good against trick room?
I'm definitely a fan of having screens up in general (although my current team can't do that, I'm still hunting Gigantimax Lapras)

Is it just to give you added bulk so you hopefully survive through the room turns?

Also -(And sorry to go so tangentially off in left field here but....)

I'm thinking of taking swords dance off Blaziken - But keeping Baton Pass...
This would mean that I then am only gonna get a boost off weakness policy (if I even run that) - But after many battles with my baton pass team.... I gotta say...
Zacian @ +3 ATK is enough to handle almost every threat in the game except for Ditto & Quagsire...

At the end of the day.... My ideal team would consist of Blaziken & 2 Legendary's that all have Baton Pass.... The idea being... Instead of just "switching" like everyone else... We just switch & keep our stat boosts. Unfortunately, my current research has led me to Latios & Latias...... And they're just.... Middling pokemon this format... Although - They are actually really good switches for Zacian, being immune to ground & resistant to fire...

I'm looking at bulbapedia as we speak.... And WOW - Zapdos can use baton pass....
(As if that ****er didn't irk me enough already....He does what I wanna do better than me.....

So anyway - If I take swords dance off Blaziken, then, the only boost I pass on via baton pass would be his speed boost, which is arguably very nice when passed to Zacian.... Zacian @ +1 speed outspeeds.... everything that's not a gimmick.


The thing is.... I think I'm starting to realize that baton pass might not actually be viable at high-levels of play.

Forgive me for what I am about to do - But I'm going to write my personal Baton Pass Diatribe right here... On Smogon....
I'll go over what's been working.... And what hasn't... If nothing else this is a record of one newb's attempt to make a team from scratch (in a format that is apparently very skill-intensive because of the recent additions of Zacian & other broken Ubers....)

I will do that in the next post.... Because.... As usual..... The above is a mess.... Just like my team.
Yea, it's to hopefully survive the turns. And dual screens last longer than tr so it should be a greater benefit, in theory.

Also, for Speed passing teams it's Scolipede not Ninjask. I'm pretty sure Ninjask is just bad, or at least outclassed.

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Thunder Wave
- Spirit Break



Cinderace-Gmax @ Focus Sash
Ability: Libero
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick
- Sucker Punch
- Gunk Shot



Tapu Koko @ Assault Vest
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 84 SpD / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
- Dazzling Gleam



Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Transform



Calyrex-Ice @ Weakness Policy
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Glacial Lance
- Bullet Seed
- High Horsepower
- Close Combat

And could someone suggest a last mon on my team? Quagsire has been unbringable and my rank sucks now. Mostly it needs to beat Arcanine, or else I'd go back to what I'm used to, Drifblim. I have Ditto for Zacian, they are like always w/ Zapdos and/or Lapras so Quagsire not that great there anyways.
 
Last edited:
Lol - That team - Pretty much just from having the Ditto - Beats my baton pass shit, Im surprised to not see trick room on the calyrex...

Anyway -Take my advice with a grain of salt - But....
I think if you want a sort of replacement for Quagsire, then Gigantimax Lapras might be a good pick. I'm currently chasing one myself, because it's max move can set dual screens - But then you don't have an outstanding reason to be using grimmsnarl - So that's almost an entire "team redesign" there...

Also - If you ever need to just fill a slot on almost ANY team.... Urishifu is almost never a bad choice in either form (unless you picked water & your team is already kinda weak to Zapdos) -
Speaking of the last slot on your team - It's be nice if that slot was filled with a direct Zapdos counter.... It's the most prevalent monster in the metagame - And I'm currently using Nihilego - Just to "hard check" it....


(Take my advice with "salt" because I'm BARELY holding on to an ultra-ball ranking ATM.... And I don't even own a Calyrex yet [I just got the DLCs a few days ago])

When I get a Calrex.... You know Im gonna try Baton passing to him... Since he's the most powerful Dynamax Sweeper in the game...
Anyway - If you don't mind me asking Omastar.... What rank are you? Is everybody in here at Masterball but me?

EDIT:
Also - Omastar... Ninjask is better than Scolipede because Ninjask actually has one of the highest base speed's in the game.
If you're using a bug pokemon to Baton pass it's either gonna be Butterfree, or Ninjask.

Ninjask literally can't be outsped by anything other than a "speed gimmick" pokemon such as Sand Rush Excadrill.

View attachment 324524
Lapras may be a good idea, but it steals Dynamax from Calyrex which is one issue I had w/ it. I also couldn't stand staying weak to Gothitelle after I ran into it so I added a dark, and since Grimmsnarl can and probably even should do screens I decided to replace Lapras. Yeah Lapras is an issue, but so is Necrozma-DM. That's part of why I don't use Nihilego, the main reason is I don't have one lol. I went back to using Drifblim it can kinda handle Necrozma, got a resign from 2 people off just Drifblim. Beats Zacian w/o wild charge. I can't get away from using it hopefully my rank recovers.

As for what that rank is it's now abysmal thanks to the turd that is Quagsire. Like 40,0000, but yes still Master Ball. I used to be #2881, and that was w/ Drifblim.

You make an ok point on Ninjask I just never see it and Scolipede is a thing. Perhaps someone else has an opinion on which is better. It's true their playstyle hardly needs attacks, except max moves contribute to BP i.e. Max Quake and Steelspike which Scolipede gets.
 
Just to ask.... Why is dual screens specifically good against trick room?
I'm definitely a fan of having screens up in general (although my current team can't do that, I'm still hunting Gigantimax Lapras)

Is it just to give you added bulk so you hopefully survive through the room turns?

Also -(And sorry to go so tangentially off in left field here but....)

I'm thinking of taking swords dance off Blaziken - But keeping Baton Pass...
This would mean that I then am only gonna get a boost off weakness policy (if I even run that) - But after many battles with my baton pass team.... I gotta say...
Zacian @ +3 ATK is enough to handle almost every threat in the game except for Ditto & Quagsire...

At the end of the day.... My ideal team would consist of Blaziken & 2 Legendary's that all have Baton Pass.... The idea being... Instead of just "switching" like everyone else... We just switch & keep our stat boosts. Unfortunately, my current research has led me to Latios & Latias...... And they're just.... Middling pokemon this format... Although - They are actually really good switches for Zacian, being immune to ground & resistant to fire...

I'm looking at bulbapedia as we speak.... And WOW - Zapdos can use baton pass....
(As if that ****er didn't irk me enough already....He does what I wanna do better than me.....

So anyway - If I take swords dance off Blaziken, then, the only boost I pass on via baton pass would be his speed boost, which is arguably very nice when passed to Zacian.... Zacian @ +1 speed outspeeds.... everything that's not a gimmick.


The thing is.... I think I'm starting to realize that baton pass might not actually be viable at high-levels of play.

Forgive me for what I am about to do - But I'm going to write my personal Baton Pass Diatribe right here... On Smogon....
I'll go over what's been working.... And what hasn't... If nothing else this is a record of one newb's attempt to make a team from scratch (in a format that is apparently very skill-intensive because of the recent additions of Zacian & other broken Ubers....)

I will do that in the next post.... Because.... As usual..... The above is a mess.... Just like my team.
Hey man, I thought I'd actually respond a bit to you and kind of go over what you have written on posts that seem to have disappeared. It's cool that you are participating and putting your thoughts out there, if I was to hazard a guess as to why you are finding your posts deleted it would be because these sort of long form posts are hard to read and some of what you are saying is inaccurate.

Without philosophizing too much on the matter, is Baton Pass viable? The simple answer is yes. This is not to say it is excellent, it has clear flaws, however it is usable in the right team compositions. That is not to say that full Baton Pass is very good because they are very bad, but that you can utilize Baton Pass elements in certain matchups. Two examples of top 100 Baton Pass teams are:

http://shigumaaa.hatenablog.com/entry/2021/03/01/175722
https://riki-0330.hatenablog.com/entry/2021/03/01/132838

There is no need to go out there and prove it can be done since it already has been. I gather, although I have not played much Baton Pass in Series 8, that Baton Pass is used less as an outright chain sweeping tool and more as a way to pivot to other Pokemon when Blaziken encounters a bad matchup, almost like a U-Turn with boosts attached along. Of course certain Pokemon can benefit from Baton Pass Boosts, such as the second team's Necrozma Dusk Mane, which solves that Ditto issue you talked about by simply outbulking it in the 1v1.

Relying on a pure Weakness Policy Baton Pass chain in the vast majority of games is foolhardy though. Most people once you get to a high level are able to play around such telegraphed ideas and Baton Pass itself is not used because a lot of top Pokemon that would be traditional recipients in USUM such as Zapdos and Celesteela can just click Max Airstream to get that same boost whilst conserving a slot or using Dual Screens in your support slot instead. There are also many things such as opposing Setup, extremely strong moves that are almost impossible to switch into (think a water move from Kyogre) and Curse which neuter Baton Pass which you didn't mention. I hope that helps out a bit for you.
 
Last edited:

NeoShinron

I COULD BE BANNED!
Hey man, I thought I'd actually respond a bit to you and kind of go over what you have written on posts that seem to have disappeared. It's cool that you are participating and putting your thoughts out there, if I was to hazard a guess as to why you are finding your posts deleted it would be because these sort of long form posts are hard to read and some of what you are saying is inaccurate.

Without philosophizing too much on the matter, is Baton Pass viable? The simple answer is yes. This is not to say it is excellent, it has clear flaws, however it is usable in the right team compositions. That is not to say that full Baton Pass is very good because they are very bad, but that you can utilize Baton Pass elements in certain matchups. Two examples of top 100 Baton Pass teams are:

http://shigumaaa.hatenablog.com/entry/2021/03/01/175722
https://riki-0330.hatenablog.com/entry/2021/03/01/132838

There is no need to go out there and prove it can be done since it already has been. I gather, although I have not played much Baton Pass in Series 8, that Baton Pass is used less as an outright chain sweeping tool and more as a way to pivot to other Pokemon when Blaziken encounters a bad matchup, almost like a U-Turn with boosts attached along. Of course certain Pokemon can benefit from Baton Pass Boosts, such as the second team's Necrozma Dusk Mane, which solves that Ditto issue you talked about by simply outbulking it in the 1v1.

Relying on a pure Weakness Policy Baton Pass chain in the vast majority of games is foolhardy though. Most people once you get to a high level are able to play around such telegraphed ideas and Baton Pass itself is not used because a lot of top Pokemon that would be traditional recipients in USUM such as Zapdos and Celesteela can just click Max Airstream to get that same boost whilst conserving a slot or using Dual Screens in your support slot instead. There are also many things such as opposing Setup, extremely strong moves that are almost impossible to switch into (think a water move from Kyogre) and Curse which neuter Baton Pass which you didn't mention. I hope that helps out a bit for you.

Thank you.


I've bee a bit of a dick... I'll try to stop.
I know that Baton pass isn't the most ideal strategy... It's just one that I understand more than most, and I honestly believe that there is "something there".... A "nut to crack" involving it... The thing is... I may be totally wrong on that... Perhaps the current BSS metagame is already "solved"... Meaning... I can't improve upon anything. - Still gonna try.

And I'm learning a lot about battles in general... By using a team I really understand... While practicing fundamentals such as predicting switches etc.
Anyway - I'll stop trying to use this space as my own personal stoned-pokemon journal...


I like the board.
 
Can someone help me w/ my team? I'm doing horrible at 61 to 65 and below 40k consistently. I had gotten high early in the season w/ much the same team but I must have been very lucky or w/e. None of it seems particularly good but usually Calyrex-Ice(wow the legend I mean ofc it does,) and when they don't have a switch in, Drifblim. A few times like vs. a Necrozma and Cloyster it's caused them to forfeit.

Besides those I'm not very confident. I have Ditto, AV Tapu Koko, TrickSpecs Rotom-W, and the usual set for Grimmsnarl. All these have failed me at different times, and I'm getting particularly dubious about Koko since I haven't even been seeing Yveltals recently except one where aI didn't have Dynamax capability left so it won.

I'd like to win a reasonable amount, I don't have much to do and it's quite stressful when I'm bad at what little there is. I already have a tiny # of gray hairs at 24 lol.
 
There are less people in start of the season so your rank will naturally fall off as the season progresses. I mean we can help but there needs to be more specifics about what your team is.
 
Ok that'd be great. You suggested tr or screens w/ Calyrex-Ice. I don't disagree. Previously I had Lapras for screens but it takes the Dynamax and I needed a dark type for this wretched Gothitelle I saw so I put Grimmsnarl. It has T-Wave not Taunt, does that fit my team?

Koko has been there from the get-go. Usual moves, T-bolt, Volt Switch, Grass Knot, Dazzling Gleam. It takes on Yveltal for Calyrex, although Calyrex can Dynamax and live for WP boost and ohko. That's mainly what Koko does w/ AV specifically, besides that it does what all sets do w/ high electric damage. But I find it's too vulnerable to TTar and Excadrill, which mess up my legend.

Rotom-W is a new addition. I needed to cover Ferro, Cresselia, Arcanine, and Rotom-H. Now I don't really believe Rotom-W is all that great for anything but Arcanine and Heattom, but it's there in the interrim until I get Volcarona/ HA Chandelure. Trick does mess up Ferro and to a lesser extent Cresselia.

Ditto has been there from the start too. I find it super weird, it can be great copying Zacian or Calyrex-shadow, but when they have a switch-in...and it loses like all Dynamax wars due to tiny HP. But it has sometimes been very potent against Zacian w/ Drifblim, since even if Drifblim gets beat by the rare Wild Charge it can come in and copy the Zacian. I probably need at least 2 deterrents to Zacian w/ Calyrex as my legend.

Lapras has been a huge issue for me, not even what it sets up but the thing itself. Electric and grass attacks still pretty much never do enough, and once recently I saw a WP one which is just awful for me. Not sure what really deals w/ it, of the two I'm considering replacing Rotom w/ neither deal w/ Lapras. Chandelure gets past the screens, but is weak to water. Volcarona can boost SpD w/ a faster-than-Lapras QD and switch in on an ice move for Maranga to activate, but is again weak to water. I did try a Specs Electro Ball Regieleki to sometimes ohko Dynamaxed Lapras but I have too kmany electrics and they will probably switch out.

What my team is is basically my ongoing attempt to make Drifblim good cause I like it, and that isn't new, I used it in ORAS and then not in gen 7. It's shut down some Necrozma-DMs which matters a lot since they beat my team otherwise.

EDIT: Just started using Blacephalon, in the same manner that Chandelure would work it does I think. It beats the 4 target mons I listed ok, and I'm running Hypnosis and Light Screen to have options vs. Lapras. I really JUST started using it, 2 games. I woulda won the 1st but accidentally switched in wrong mon, and I did win the 2nd by a hefty margin, though only cause Hypnosis hit. But w/ a sash Hypnosis isn't that bad. Blacephalon still leaves me SR weak, in fact it's worse now. And it's weak to Excadrill cause they set their own sand(are none/few Mold Breaker now for Mimikyu/Rotoms?)

I'm 75-75, it's been a win then a loss for a while now not really interesting. Ditto has to go, I'm horribly weak to Dialga and Mimikyu. It also does nothing in a bunch of match-ups besides Zacian and Calyrex-shadow.
 
Last edited:

NeoShinron

I COULD BE BANNED!
Well hello guys...

I'm about to pick my Calyrex Version (for a week or so - I'm gonna replay the game and get the other version of Kubfu & the other Calyrex)

Anyway - Between Ice & Shadow Calyrex...

Anyone got any opinions?

HOLY CRAP!?!?!? I JUST SAW THAT CALYREX CAN USE BATON PASS!!!!!
He completes my ideal Team....


This makes my choice much much harder...

I have to go Ice....

Looks like I'm gonna go Ice/Weakness policy..... And maybe mess with trick room...
Anyway....

The 2nd Strongest Legendary in the Game can Baton Pass.... (Edit - Considering pokemon that we can use in BSS)
And use substitute....
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
is a Site Content Manageris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
Well hello guys...

I'm about to pick my Calyrex Version (for a week or so - I'm gonna replay the game and get the other version of Kubfu & the other Calyrex)

Anyway - Between Ice & Shadow Calyrex...

Anyone got any opinions?

HOLY CRAP!?!?!? I JUST SAW THAT CALYREX CAN USE BATON PASS!!!!!
He completes my ideal Team....


This makes my choice much much harder...

I have to go Ice....

Looks like I'm gonna go Ice/Weakness policy..... And maybe mess with trick room...
Anyway....

The 2nd Strongest Legendary in the Game can Baton Pass.... (Edit - Considering pokemon that we can use in BSS)
And use substitute....
You post a lot of these questions (or weird flexes about running through the game multiple times just to get Zacian to trade away). Check out this giveaway thread. I will be deleting anymore posts like this.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ittos-vgc-mons-useful-items-giveaway.3660588/
 
Hi I'm trying to make a HO team for BSS around my Stealth Rock Excadrill that I already have. I was looking into what would be good teammates?

From my theorycrafting Togekiss and Gyarados are good setup sweepers that synergize well with Drill but I'm not sure who to use cause I kind of like having both but I also wanted to use a Tangrowth so that might be an issue too.
 

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
is a Tutor
Hi I'm trying to make a HO team for BSS around my Stealth Rock Excadrill that I already have. I was looking into what would be good teammates?

From my theorycrafting Togekiss and Gyarados are good setup sweepers that synergize well with Drill but I'm not sure who to use cause I kind of like having both but I also wanted to use a Tangrowth so that might be an issue too.
Hi, welcome to BSS!

Excadrill in the current metagame (series 8 with 1 restricted pokemon allowed) is mostly running sand rush offense, which doesn't really pair well with Stealth Rock, so I'd recommend either using a different Excadrill set (such as Sand Rush Life Orb 3 attacks + Swords Dance) or wait for series 9 to return where you can run Mold Breaker focus sash lead. Let me know which meta you are trying to build for and I can give you some more tips!
 
Hi, welcome to BSS!

Excadrill in the current metagame (series 8 with 1 restricted pokemon allowed) is mostly running sand rush offense, which doesn't really pair well with Stealth Rock, so I'd recommend either using a different Excadrill set (such as Sand Rush Life Orb 3 attacks + Swords Dance) or wait for series 9 to return where you can run Mold Breaker focus sash lead. Let me know which meta you are trying to build for and I can give you some more tips!
thanks and yeah its for season 9 meta since I'm not that far into the COT dlc yet tho I didnt know it was just one restricted.

i theory crafted a team with Drill, Physical Dragapult, NP Togekiss, Rotom-Heat, AV Azumarill, and CB Ferrothorn
 
Last edited:

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
is a Tutor
thanks and yeah its for season 9 meta since I'm not that far into the COT dlc yet tho I didnt know it was just one restricted.

i theory crafted a team with Drill, Physical Dragapult, NP Togekiss, Rotom-Heat, AV Azumarill, and CB Ferrothorn
All of these pokemon are fine, but without a team paste, its hard to tell what you are going for. First things first though, you need at least one Pokemon that can beat Zapdos consistently; currently you have 0 of those, since Excadrill is opting for Stealth Rock as opposed to offensive, which could otherwise handle Zapdos decently.
I recommend using Pokepast.es and building the team there.
 
All of these pokemon are fine, but without a team paste, its hard to tell what you are going for. First things first though, you need at least one Pokemon that can beat Zapdos consistently; currently you have 0 of those, since Excadrill is opting for Stealth Rock as opposed to offensive, which could otherwise handle Zapdos decently.
I recommend using Pokepast.es and building the team there.
thanks for the response. okay I will do that!
 
Hey fellow Pokemon Trainers!

I am very new to competitive Pokemon and tried to build my first team for BSS. I am aware of the Metagame and common threads, but I would love to hear some opinions from experienced players and want to know if I was missing something in my team building process. This is not even close to being a super strong team and I know that. But I don't really enjoy playing the super strong meta picks and want to make a team like this work :)

Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/4fa35089b65a364e

My general Gameplan is to open the gates for a Venusaur or Calyrex-S sweep. This team has a very good defensive type coverage and has a switch in in many situations. I didn’t test this team yet, since I didn’t put in the effort of actually building it in game. I kind of want to hear some opinions so I am not wasting my time training a team that gets demolished on the ranked ladder.


In the following I will try to explain how I want to handle some of the most dangerous Mons of the meta game:<br />
<br />
Zacian:
Pretty straight forward - Torkoal and Quagsire giving Zacian a really hard time, being able to hit it effectively while having the tools to stop it from sweeping with Will-O-Wisp or simply walling it with Unaware.

Zapdos:
Potentially a very tough Matchup. My plan is to bring Grimmsnarl to set up Light Screens and getting off a spirit break to make an offensive Zapdos way less threatening. If the Zapdos is physically defensive, I should be able to handle it with the sheer amount of special attackers I am bringing with this team.

Landorus-T:
Calyrex is able to OHKO an offensive Landorus with Astral Barrage while not having to worry about the intimidate drop. It outspeeds even a scarfed Landorus, winning the matchup 10/10 times.

Cinderace:
Quagsire and Torkoal are both able to effectively wall a Cinderace while hitting it hard with Body Press, Scald and Earthquake.

Kyogre:
Venusaur OHKOs a not dynamaxed Kyogre with Leaf Storm. It can answer Kyogres Dynamax with its own Dynamax, what makes it live a Max Hailstorm to trigger the Weakness Policy to be able to kill it with G-Max Vine Lash in return.


I was covering only matchups that I encountered in my short time on the ladder with other teams. I will obviously learn a lot by just playing this team and I will realize what its weaknesses are. But hearing your opinions up front might help me understand teambuilding better and gives me a good base to start from!

Thank you for every answer, have a good day :)
 
Hey fellow Pokemon Trainers!

I am very new to competitive Pokemon and tried to build my first team for BSS. I am aware of the Metagame and common threads, but I would love to hear some opinions from experienced players and want to know if I was missing something in my team building process. This is not even close to being a super strong team and I know that. But I don't really enjoy playing the super strong meta picks and want to make a team like this work :)

Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/4fa35089b65a364e

My general Gameplan is to open the gates for a Venusaur or Calyrex-S sweep. This team has a very good defensive type coverage and has a switch in in many situations. I didn’t test this team yet, since I didn’t put in the effort of actually building it in game. I kind of want to hear some opinions so I am not wasting my time training a team that gets demolished on the ranked ladder.


In the following I will try to explain how I want to handle some of the most dangerous Mons of the meta game:</p><p></p><p>Zacian:
Pretty straight forward - Torkoal and Quagsire giving Zacian a really hard time, being able to hit it effectively while having the tools to stop it from sweeping with Will-O-Wisp or simply walling it with Unaware.

Zapdos:
Potentially a very tough Matchup. My plan is to bring Grimmsnarl to set up Light Screens and getting off a spirit break to make an offensive Zapdos way less threatening. If the Zapdos is physically defensive, I should be able to handle it with the sheer amount of special attackers I am bringing with this team.

Landorus-T:
Calyrex is able to OHKO an offensive Landorus with Astral Barrage while not having to worry about the intimidate drop. It outspeeds even a scarfed Landorus, winning the matchup 10/10 times.

Cinderace:
Quagsire and Torkoal are both able to effectively wall a Cinderace while hitting it hard with Body Press, Scald and Earthquake.

Kyogre:
Venusaur OHKOs a not dynamaxed Kyogre with Leaf Storm. It can answer Kyogres Dynamax with its own Dynamax, what makes it live a Max Hailstorm to trigger the Weakness Policy to be able to kill it with G-Max Vine Lash in return.


I was covering only matchups that I encountered in my short time on the ladder with other teams. I will obviously learn a lot by just playing this team and I will realize what its weaknesses are. But hearing your opinions up front might help me understand teambuilding better and gives me a good base to start from!

Thank you for every answer, have a good day :)
I am not an experienced player, but I can talk a bit about Sun on high ladder.

Generally the idea of Eject Pack Torkoal into Sun Sweeper (generally it is actually Solar Power Charizard rather than Venusaur) is one that has seen a little bit of usage. I'd avoid using your particular Torkoal set, it is kind of trying to do multiple things at once. You have an Eject Pack with Iron Defence Body Press, it's pretty hard to work around setting up ID BP and have Overheat or intimidate etc. which will just yeet you out. I think it's far better to use your Torkoal as pure support with Yawn.

I think your Venusaur isn't fast enough, I understand the speed to outspeed Calyrex Shadow, but outspeeding +1 Zapdos, +1 Landorus-T, +1 Cinderace IMO is important otherwise you will never be able to sweep. Quagsire in practice does actually struggle with taking Cinderace moves. Max Airstream, Max Strike and Max Mindstorm as well as Life Orb High Jump Kick both 2HKO Quagsire at which point you have a boosted speed Cinderace in and you have even set up sun for it. Kyogre also generally wouldn't start vs. this team, you'd want to remove the Torkoal and then go into Kyogre later to make your Venusaur slower than everything. Ice Beam and Water Spout easily 2HKO even max health venusaur so you can't switch it in.

Regardless Sun is a pretty temporamental style, Zapdos honestly seems a terror to this team which is just going to net you loss after loss since Zapdos is on every team and gets to click Max Airstream and Max Lightning for free on every single member of your team. That's the first thing I would probably fix if I was to change it.
 
Last edited:

1_TrickPhony

BSS Circuit Co-host
is a Tutor
Hey fellow Pokemon Trainers!

I am very new to competitive Pokemon and tried to build my first team for BSS. I am aware of the Metagame and common threads, but I would love to hear some opinions from experienced players and want to know if I was missing something in my team building process. This is not even close to being a super strong team and I know that. But I don't really enjoy playing the super strong meta picks and want to make a team like this work :)

Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/4fa35089b65a364e

My general Gameplan is to open the gates for a Venusaur or Calyrex-S sweep. This team has a very good defensive type coverage and has a switch in in many situations. I didn’t test this team yet, since I didn’t put in the effort of actually building it in game. I kind of want to hear some opinions so I am not wasting my time training a team that gets demolished on the ranked ladder.


In the following I will try to explain how I want to handle some of the most dangerous Mons of the meta game:</p><p></p><p>Zacian:
Pretty straight forward - Torkoal and Quagsire giving Zacian a really hard time, being able to hit it effectively while having the tools to stop it from sweeping with Will-O-Wisp or simply walling it with Unaware.

Zapdos:
Potentially a very tough Matchup. My plan is to bring Grimmsnarl to set up Light Screens and getting off a spirit break to make an offensive Zapdos way less threatening. If the Zapdos is physically defensive, I should be able to handle it with the sheer amount of special attackers I am bringing with this team.

Landorus-T:
Calyrex is able to OHKO an offensive Landorus with Astral Barrage while not having to worry about the intimidate drop. It outspeeds even a scarfed Landorus, winning the matchup 10/10 times.

Cinderace:
Quagsire and Torkoal are both able to effectively wall a Cinderace while hitting it hard with Body Press, Scald and Earthquake.

Kyogre:
Venusaur OHKOs a not dynamaxed Kyogre with Leaf Storm. It can answer Kyogres Dynamax with its own Dynamax, what makes it live a Max Hailstorm to trigger the Weakness Policy to be able to kill it with G-Max Vine Lash in return.


I was covering only matchups that I encountered in my short time on the ladder with other teams. I will obviously learn a lot by just playing this team and I will realize what its weaknesses are. But hearing your opinions up front might help me understand teambuilding better and gives me a good base to start from!

Thank you for every answer, have a good day :)
You dont need that many answers to Zacian, you already have a faster legend so theres no need for Torkoal and Quagsire to also aim for that niche, better to shift quag in particular to a different mon. Ika explained pretty well but I would go for a different ground type, maybe something like Rhyperior so you also dont get destroyed by zapdos, ho-oh, and the likes for free
 
I am not an experienced player, but I can talk a bit about Sun on high ladder.

Generally the idea of Eject Pack Torkoal into Sun Sweeper (generally it is actually Solar Power Charizard rather than Venusaur) is one that has seen a little bit of usage. I'd avoid using your particular Torkoal set, it is kind of trying to do multiple things at once. You have an Eject Pack with Iron Defence Body Press, it's pretty hard to work around setting up ID BP and have Overheat or intimidate etc. which will just yeet you out. I think it's far better to use your Torkoal as pure support with Yawn.

I think your Venusaur isn't fast enough, I understand the speed to outspeed Calyrex Shadow, but outspeeding +1 Zapdos, +1 Landorus-T, +1 Cinderace IMO is important otherwise you will never be able to sweep. Quagsire in practice does actually struggle with taking Cinderace moves. Max Airstream, Max Strike and Max Mindstorm as well as Life Orb High Jump Kick both 2HKO Quagsire at which point you have a boosted speed Cinderace in and you have even set up sun for it. Kyogre also generally wouldn't start vs. this team, you'd want to remove the Torkoal and then go into Kyogre later to make your Venusaur slower than everything. Ice Beam and Water Spout easily 2HKO even max health venusaur so you can't switch it in.

Regardless Sun is a pretty temporamental style, Zapdos honestly seems a terror to this team which is just going to net you loss after loss since Zapdos is on every team and gets to click Max Airstream and Max Lightning for free on every single member of your team. That's the first thing I would probably fix if I was to change it.
You dont need that many answers to Zacian, you already have a faster legend so theres no need for Torkoal and Quagsire to also aim for that niche, better to shift quag in particular to a different mon. Ika explained pretty well but I would go for a different ground type, maybe something like Rhyperior so you also dont get destroyed by zapdos, ho-oh, and the likes for free
First of all, thank you for taking your time to give your opinions on my attempt!

I decided to take Venusaur over Charizard because it felt awkward going in to a 3v3 with 2 fire types.

I totally get the point you made about my Torkoal trying to be too many things at once. Is it still worth it to go for Body Press without Iron Defense in a supportive Torkoal set? Or are Stealth Rocks a better option alongside Overheat, Yawn and Will-O-Wisp?

To outspeed +1 Cinderace with Venusaur I need to be Timid and have a full Speed investment. So I might need to go something like 4/0/0/252/0/252 which leaves my Venusaur without any Bulk investment. I feel like Weakness Policy becomes quite useless in that situation since I won’t really be able to live super effective attacks. I was really struggling to find a fitting item for Venusaur, so what are my other options? Or is WP still fine?

Bringing Quagsire alongside Torkoal to check Zacian was probably some PTSD stuff since I got shit on by Zacians in my first ladder games. Now that I’m thinking about it it actually seems to be a bit over the top.

Im now considering to bring in Rhyperior for Quag to have something to stop Zapdos.
If I am taking Venusaur out for Charizard, should I bring an additional Grass Type like Rillaboom?
 
I will repeat that I'm not an expert on BSS, but I'll try answer some of your queries. My personal opinion, asides from the general idea that Sun is just simply not very good, is that Torkoal is probably better with a Specially Defensive set so you can at least waste Zapdos Dynamax turns and click yawn on it. Overheat and Yawn are musts, beyond that you can run WoW, Solar Beam for Quagsire/Swampert or even Protect with the main purpose to waste more Dynamax Turns on early Dynamaxers. For example 252Hp/164SpDef Guarantees you live a Max Airstream from Timid Life Orb Zapdos and are able to Yawn. In general early Dynamax is an issue for these teams so what are you to do. Rhyperior has been suggested but you can't bring Rhyperior every time you see a Zapdos otherwise you are forced in 80% of cases never to bring Sun since most of the time you want to also bring your restricted, at which point what is the point of having two of your pokemon on your team? That's why I suggest this sort of specially defensive spread.

I think Venusaur isn't terrible if you are to go this route, but you shouldn't think of stuff in basic typings FWG/FDS cores. Weather Archetypes work by doubling down on strengths that the typing can bring to an extent. Pelipper + Mega Swampert in USUM are both water types, Hippowdon/Tyranitar + Excadrill all share similar weaknesses even if Tar/Drill technically have different typings. You don't need Rillaboom on Sun, you kind of increase your weakness to Max Airstream shenanigans even further but it doesn't abuse Sun like Charizard or Venusaur.

For example with Gmax Charizard, you are using this pokemon's pure power in the Sun even if Torkoal and Charizard are both Fire Types, resists literally struggle to switch into Gmax Charizard in the Sun. Charizard honestly hits like a truck and can OHKO dynamaxed pokemon even bulky ones like Landorus-T and Zapdos with Max Moves in the Sun.

With Venusaur, you need Dynamax to live these moves you are wanting to take for WP activation (mainly Max Airstream), when a lot of pokemon, Landorus-T for Example can just go for Max Rockfall, be faster and then go for Max Airstream. I feel like right now where your team is at, Zapdos clicks Max Airstream turn 1 versus every pokemon on your team so it is already +1 by the time you go into Venusaur after Torkoal. Your play is actually not to Dynamax and click Sleep Powder or it would be if you were faster than +1 Zapdos. You can't beat Zapdos when it is +1 in a 1v1 with your Venusaur as the spread is since Zapdos will just tank the WP move and then KO you next turn. I could go through the theory trees of every possible situation in the Venusaur/Zapdos Matchup, but it is mostly Zapdos favoured in a Dynamax battle.

If I was building, I'd just bring Torkoal + Charizard as a Sun Duo and then bring goodstuffs otherwise that is unrelated to this core.
 
Last edited:
I will repeat that I'm not an expert on BSS, but I'll try answer some of your queries. My personal opinion, asides from the general idea that Sun is just simply not very good, is that Torkoal is probably better with a Specially Defensive set so you can at least waste Zapdos Dynamax turns and click yawn on it. Overheat and Yawn are musts, beyond that you can run WoW, Solar Beam for Quagsire/Swampert or even Protect with the main purpose to waste more Dynamax Turns on early Dynamaxers. For example 252Hp/164SpDef Guarantees you live a Max Airstream from Timid Life Orb Zapdos and are able to Yawn. In general early Dynamax is an issue for these teams so what are you to do. Rhyperior has been suggested but you can't bring Rhyperior every time you see a Zapdos otherwise you are forced in 80% of cases never to bring Sun since most of the time you want to also bring your restricted, at which point what is the point of having two of your pokemon on your team? That's why I suggest this sort of specially defensive spread.

I think Venusaur isn't terrible if you are to go this route, but you shouldn't think of stuff in basic typings FWG/FDS cores. Weather Archetypes work by doubling down on strengths that the typing can bring to an extent. Pelipper + Mega Swampert in USUM are both water types, Hippowdon/Tyranitar + Excadrill all share similar weaknesses even if Tar/Drill technically have different typings. You don't need Rillaboom on Sun, you kind of increase your weakness to Max Airstream shenanigans even further but it doesn't abuse Sun like Charizard or Venusaur.

For example with Gmax Charizard, you are using this pokemon's pure power in the Sun even if Torkoal and Charizard are both Fire Types, resists literally struggle to switch into Gmax Charizard in the Sun. Charizard honestly hits like a truck and can OHKO dynamaxed pokemon even bulky ones like Landorus-T and Zapdos with Max Moves in the Sun.

With Venusaur, you need Dynamax to live these moves you are wanting to take for WP activation (mainly Max Airstream), when a lot of pokemon, Landorus-T for Example can just go for Max Rockfall, be faster and then go for Max Airstream. I feel like right now where your team is at, Zapdos clicks Max Airstream turn 1 versus every pokemon on your team so it is already +1 by the time you go into Venusaur after Torkoal. Your play is actually not to Dynamax and click Sleep Powder or it would be if you were faster than +1 Zapdos. You can't beat Zapdos when it is +1 in a 1v1 with your Venusaur as the spread is since Zapdos will just tank the WP move and then KO you next turn. I could go through the theory trees of every possible situation in the Venusaur/Zapdos Matchup, but it is mostly Zapdos favoured in a Dynamax battle.

If I was building, I'd just bring Torkoal + Charizard as a Sun Duo and then bring goodstuffs otherwise that is unrelated to this core.
Again, tysm for helping me out! :)

I really wanted to force Venusaur in, but I will probably drop it for now. I think I had a wrong angle looking at weather cores and you explained that very well!

So I will put in some thinking again and restructure this whole team, bringing Torkoal / Zard as a weather option and building the rest of the team with strong Pokemon that don't need as much setup and cover those twos weaknesses.
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
is a Site Content Manageris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
Is it still worth it to go for Body Press without Iron Defense in a supportive Torkoal set? Or are Stealth Rocks a better option alongside Overheat, Yawn and Will-O-Wisp?
Body Press is still great as it gives an emergency option to smack Tyranitar with, something that will be brought against Calyrex-S teams very often.

I usually like going this:

Torkoal @ Eject Pack
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Overheat
- Body Press
- Stealth Rock
- Yawn
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top