Battle Stance

[Heroes and Cons]

MEGA BEEDRILL NEW META!

...

You should rename this Shuckle: The Meta imo.

Shuckle is bloody terrifying, but its low HP makes it less of a bulky threat than it could be. Certainly a threat to prepare for though.

Deoxys-D and Cresselia are bigger threats IMO, though they are admittedly both weak to Knock Off which hinders them. Calm Mind Cress in particular seems like a very dangerous Pokemon.

Goodra is a fucking monster though, the only Pseudo-Legendary that isn't weakened in this meta. Base 150 Special Attack on something that's already so good is definitely not to be taken lightly. Florges and Sylveon get a similar stat change, but their ofensive movepools are not in the same league. Florges' access to Wish and Sylveon's Pixilate help their utility though.

Umbreon is a sweet mixed attacker here, while retaining its ability to support its team via Wish-passing. Low speed helps in this meta too, since it retains its bulk before it attacks in most cases.

Mega Tyranitar gets a massive boost to its special bulk (and a minor boost to physical bulk) when it is on the offensive, while its offensive power doesn't take a big hit at all (still base 150 attack), so it can take a very effective bulky Dragon Dance role.

 

[Akumeoy]

I have found something that can switch in on physically oriented Shuckles that lack Earth Power: Mega Aggron. Can also switch in on any move but Earthquake/power pre-mega. Your best bet is to bait anything else by having a Flying-type or levitator out beforehand, or to BP it a substitute.

4 SpA Shuckle Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 124-147 (36 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Shuckle Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 121-144 (35.1 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

(Note that 252 HP / 4+ Def / 252 SpD is the EV spread that gives Maggron the best tanking ability vs Shuckle, as far as I can tell)

Meanwhile,

0 Atk Mega Aggron Dragon Tail vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Shuckle: 380-448 (156.3 - 184.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This ensures that Shuckle will attack into Mega Aggron's titanic defenses, while Aggron will crush the bug... mold... thing with its pathetic defenses. And if Shuckle decides to use a status move on you, well, it's still off the field afterwards.

Modest Mantine always OHKOs Shuckle with a Life Orb Hydro Pump. A variety of other Water-types with solid Special Defenses can OHKO with Specs, but Mantine is the only legal 'mon that can pull that off. Modest Jirachi OHKOs with Life Orb Doom Desire, with the added benefit of doing so through Protect. Azumarill always OHKOs with a Choice Band (or Life Orb). A variety of Rock-types can OHKO with Life Orb Stone Edge, and even more with a Choice Band. Flash Cannon and Power Gem are no-goes.

Of course, if any of these try to actually switch in on an attacking Shuckle, they will be laughed at (although Mantine can switch in on Earthquake).

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Is rock polish Aggron going to be a thing? LO STAB Head Smash from 200 base attack sounds terrifying

252+ Atk Life Orb Aggron Head Smash vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 406-477 (76.7 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Aggron Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 192-226 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Aggron Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 170-201 (56.4 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Aggron Head Smash vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 214-253 (66 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Holy fuck

 

[Stocke]

bumping because I thought this meta was interesting and that it deserves more attention

I have to say, it's a good thing that Mega Mawile is banned: 125 base Attack doubled by Huge Power is frankly ridiculous. Sure, you're still slow and pretty vulnerable to special attacks after attacking, but that amount of raw power is unsurpassed by anything else in the game.

Ferrothorn also looks like it could be promising as a bulky attacker with Curse. In Reverse Stance it suffers from the same problem as a lot of bulkier Pokémon do, in that its defenses (or rather, Special Defense specifically since its base Attack is decent and Curse boosts it) are shallow and its Speed is very low, but that isn't as much of a problem with Ferrothorn as after a few Curses it'll outslow nearly anything in the game and it probably wants to run Protect anyway. Coverage is a bit limited, however, as you'll only have room for Gyro Ball and and one other offensive move.

 

[sin(pi)]

Steelix in Sand seems somewhat broken:

Calcs

252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew in Sand: 435-513 (107.6 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle (230 base def) in Sand: 338-398 (139 - 163.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron (230 base def) in Sand: 211-249 (61.3 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (if for some reason Aggron is slower/it switches in)
What about skarmory?
252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Steelix Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory (140 base def) in Sand: 138-163 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Seems good, right? But Skarm will always be faster and then
252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Steelix Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory (base 80 def) in Sand: 202-238 (60.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
or if it roosts:
252+ Atk Sand Force Mega Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Sand: 414-488 (123.9 - 146.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Steelix is slow as hell but that power is insane, you can run EdgeQuakeSlam and Protect and pair it with Ttar and destroy souls. It's also fast enough to outspeed and OHKO shuckle which is cool.

 

[bp scrub]

Hoopa-U seems like itll be pretty good.
When attacking, you get 130 spatk which is obviously a drop but still solid, but Hoopa now has amazing 80/160/170 defenses. In addition, you can force 50/50s; either your opponent protects and you nasty plot or they dont protect and get hit with their weaker defenses.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Something I'm surprised people aren't talking about: the Regis.

Regirock now gets 200 base Attack! Not quite as much as Shuckle, but it's much faster and in Attack mode has better bulk than Smeargle in Attack mode.

Regice is much the same deal, 200 base Special Attack is frightening. Also Bolt Beam

Registeel is the new Aegislash, only without Swords Dance...or STAB priority...or King's Shield. But with fewer weaknesses.

 

[Asumi]

Sableye-Mega @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Dark Pulse
- Protect
- Recover / Nasty Plot

Sableye gets 125/115 offensive stats when it attacks. It can run a physical set with Knock Off if you're not going for Nasty Plot or Calm Mind. M-Sableye is also immune to Toxic that will be flying around in this meta.

Audino-Mega @ Audinite
Ability: Healer
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Fire Blast
- Calm Mind
- Protect

126/126 on the offense. While it does have a garbage ability, it also has a lot of options to make it unpredictable. Its physical pool is not barren, and can be used on a support set because it has Knock Off. Heal Bell, Wish, Encore, screens and status make Audino-Mega a solid choice if you get tired of OU.



Does Eviolite boost your Attack and Special Attack when you switch forms?
Does Assault Vest boost your Special Attack when you switch forms?

Everything will be broken if they do.
Like AV Goodra who can run a fast set because it gets 100/110 defenses on the offensive form. 657 SpA after AV (max SpD EVs, +SpD Nature). .___.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Hoopa-U seems like itll be pretty good.
When attacking, you get 130 spatk which is obviously a drop but still solid, but Hoopa now has amazing 80/160/170 defenses. In addition, you can force 50/50s; either your opponent protects and you nasty plot or they dont protect and get hit with their weaker defenses.

Best of all, you can even hit through protect!

 

[IronGrahn]

Best of all, you can even hit through protect!

In this meta Hoopa-U will have a base 60 Atk when attacking. I don't have calcs aviable but Hyperspace Fury doesn't seem so threatening here.

 

[Lemon Ginger]

In this meta Hoopa-U will have a base 60 Atk when attacking. I don't have calcs aviable but Hyperspace Fury doesn't seem so threatening here.

Hyperspace hole, brohan.

CROopa
Hoopa-Unbound @ leftovers
Ability: Magician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- hyperspace hole (psyshock for PP)
- rest
- Calm Mind
- sleep talk

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 184-217 (45.5 - 53.7%)

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hoopa Unbound: 144-171 (39.5 - 46.9%)

Yea boiii.

 

[Stocke]

Does Assault Vest boost your Special Attack when you switch forms?

Probably not, seeing as it's the base stats that are swapped instead of the actual stats.

Assault Vest does look like it could be a good item for things that normally have high Special Defense, though, as it'll be able to patch up the Special Defense presuming it's lowered (which it will be in most cases) and the new higher Special Attack is what will be utilized for offensive moves.

 

[Asumi]

Probably not, seeing as it's the base stats that are swapped instead of the actual stats.

Assault Vest does look like it could be a good item for things that normally have high Special Defense, though, as it'll be able to patch up the Special Defense presuming it's lowered (which it will be in most cases) and the new higher Special Attack is what will be utilized for offensive moves.

Well, AV prevents you from using Protect, so you can never change back into defensive once you attack, but it does make some interesting options like slapping it on a Tangrowth to make an amazing sponge with Regenerator.


On the opposite side of the spectrum, things with normally high offensive stats can attack to switch forms and take advantage of their newfound bulk.
Despite looking like an offense-centered meta, stall can actually find some footing because of the liberal use of Protect (stacking up residual damage).
What's weird is that stallers now need to be fast, so your previous sweepers are now prime candidates for stall. Your new powerhouses are mostly slow, so they will most likely use Protect after attacking or risk taking a hit on the frail side. More Protect = more residual damage. Also, since they are so slow, you can just spam Substitute until they die of Toxic.
It would be hard to switch in though, because you will always start at your frailer side.


Tangrowth: 100/100/110
Garchomp-Mega: 108/170/120
Banette-Mega: 64/165/93 (with Prankster, Destiny Bond, Pain Split, Will-O-Wisp. This thing will be annoying because it won't use Protect, freeing up a move slot.)
Diancie-Mega: 50/160/160
Hoopa-U: 80/160/170 (still with 130 SpA, perfect candidate for AV)
Absol-Mega: 65/150/115 (with Magic Bounce. It gets STAB Foul Play so your lowered offenses will not be an issue. Perish Song is good here because of all the Protect.)
Landorus-T: 89/145/105 (+Intimidate)
Charizard-X: 78/130/130
Charizard-Y: 78/104/159
Dragonite: 100/134/100 (+Multiscale)
Kyurem-B: 125/170/120
Honchkrow: 100/125/105 (+Foul Play)
Salamence: 95/135/110 (+Intimidate)
Sceptile-Mega: 70/110/145 (fast and bulky SubSeeder. Base Sceptile works too if you want to free up a mega slot.)
Kyurem: 125/130/130
Hoopa: 80/110/150
Archeops: 75/140/112 (Stealth Rock, Roost, Defog, U-turn, Knock Off and Switcheroo. Archeops looks pretty nice here.)

 

[Hourai]

I foresee Reigrock and Mega Aggron becoming physical gods in this meta, Mega Aggron in particular due to getting up to 614 Defense. Registeel will be a better version of Aegislash, but Regice will still be bad due to being a pure Ice-type though. Deoxys-Attack is going to be super terrible lmao. Ferrothorn will get the Gyro Ball of the gods.

 

[Stocke]

Deoxys-Attack is going to be super terrible lmao.

Not really. This has already been addressed earlier in the thread, but Deoxys-Attack will still be a very effective hazard-setting lead given how fast and, after it gets an attack off, bulky it is. It's true that it'll be terrible as a purely offensive 'mon, but that isn't all it can do.

Also, I disagree with Registeel being a better Aegislash. Registeel may have better base stats all-around, but its typing and movepool are both generally inferior to those of Aegislash. (No Swords Dance or priority, for one thing)

 

[Durengardnit]

My favourite part of this metagame is not the Aegislash-esque "tank an attack in Defense mode and then attack while in Offense mode" but the "turn your high offenses into amazing defenses" because that allows for much more creativity.

Some more examples:

Cacturne: 70/115/60/115/60/55 becomes 70/60/115/60/115/55; it has resistances against Ground, Grass, Dark, Ghost and Electric plus immunities to Psychic and Water (Water Absorb). Due to its low speed the best option to switch into reverse mode is Sucker Punch, after that you can spam Spikes, Leech Seed and Synthesis. It also learns Encore and Spiky Shield, but is probably too slow to abuse the former well and the latter makes it frail again.

Breloom: 130 Attack turns into 130 Defense, so a Poison Heal set with Mach Punch (or Feint if you want to outspeed and tank other priority moves) is probably the best physical wall against Edgequake and Dark types. Once its Toxic Orb has been activated, it´s also a good Knock Off absorber. After using Mach Punch, take advantage of Spore, Synthesis and Leech Seed.

Mienshao: 65/60/125/60/95/105 with Regenerator looks fun. Fake Out ensures that you can safely switch into reverse form, after that feel free to spam Taunt, Knock-Off and U-Turn, or maybe try Substitute with Baton Pass.

Porygon-Z: After one attack, it gets 85/80/135 bulk with Recover, Thunder Wave and Magic Coat.

Mega-Aerodactyl: Probably the fastest physical wall in the game. Its 135 Attack stat becomes 135 defense, though unfortunately its special defense turns from 95 to 70. As a Stealth Rock, Defog and Roost user Archaeops is probably better since it has better bulk plus Knock-Off and U-Turn, but Mega Aerodactyl is much faster and has Taunt.

(Mega)-Alakazam: Assuming Deoxys is banned, this is probably the fastest special wall in the game. The base form becomes 55/45/50/95/135/120 and has the awesome Magic Guard, while the Mega form has 55/65/50/95/175/150 bulk and the matchup-reliant Trace. Its support movepool includes Recover, Encore, Taunt and Thunder Wave. Calm Mind makes up for the lowered special attack while in reverse mode.

Mega Latios: Finally the most loathed Mega evolution ever gets a niché as a bulkier version of support Mega Latias. After firing off an attack its new bulk is 80/130/160. Considering its HP stat, it is probably a better Psychic wall than Alakazam.

Emboar: After switching forms with Sucker Punch, it gets 110/123/100 bulk. Unfortunately it doesn´t learn any recovery move.

Charizard-Mega X: Bulky Wisp Charizard is now the way to go as it gets fantastic 78/130/130 bulk. An Attack stat of 111 plus Tough Claws also means that Dragon Dance sets are still a good option, too.

Charizard-Mega Y: With 78/104/159 bulk it distinguishes itself from the X version by leaning much more on special defense. 115 special attack plus Sun also mean Flamethrower is still usable.

 

[Asumi]

Banette-Mega would be very effective at stopping most physical powerhouses like Aggron.
64/165/93 defenses coupled Prankster Will-O-Wisp and Pain Split will be extremely annoying.
What's more, the lowered offenses will not be an issue because of Foul Play.

Speaking of Foul Play, it's an extremely useful move in this meta because of the things running around with 150+ Atk after stance change.
Honchkrow can put it to very good use: 100/125/105 defenses with Roost and STAB on Foul Play. Night Shade for more reliable damage. Defog for hazard control.
It also has Perish Song, which is awesome considering the Protect spam.

 

[Hourai]

Only thing Registeel will be worse than Aegislash in is its lack of access to Gyro Ball

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Only thing Registeel will be worse than Aegislash in is its lack of access to Gyro Ball

Not entirely true, it also has slightly worse defensive typing and no STAB priority. It doesn't get Swords Dance either, although it does get Curse.

 

[Ghoul King]

The lack of Ghost typing has disadvantages, but it also has advantages. (Like not being weak to Knock Off) A bigger flaw with Registeel is that it lacks major boosting, not to mention it lacks priority. On the other hand, its movepool is noticeably wider, and includes Psych Up, Explosion, and, uh, Magnet Rise? Gravity? It's got... some things, anyway. Rock Polish might be nice, I guess?

But yeah, its statline is equal or better in every way except Speed (Which is arguably an advantage in Battle Stance) compared to Aegislash. Movepool is liable to be the issue. Its Abilities aren't fantastic either, which is unfortunate as otherwise "useful Abilities" would be something it would have over Aegislash. If Intimidate turns out to be common, Clear Body does block that, so there's that, and alternatively Light Metal can mitigate Low Kick-based coverage.

... I was going to do a calc here, but Light and Heavy Metal aren't in the calc. Annoying. Still, manually checking weights, it... would only knock 20 BP off of Low Kick. Ugh. Light Metal is useless, never mind. Stick with Clear Body.

 

[TauNeutrino]

I have an idea: Switch the forms if the mon is shiny. This makes offensive mons viable.

 

[TenucSkenuck]

This meta literally screams Shuckle, Ferrothorn and MSlowbro. All these bulky pokemon will have their stats switched in Offensive stance? Amazing. Shuckle gets a whopping 230 Attack and 230 Special Attack with Shell Smash. These pokemon will be definite Offensive threats.

This meta clearly shows "The Best Offense, is the Best Defense"

-TenucSkenuck

 

[Nalei]

Please Ban this thing

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy/Contrary
EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 4 Def / 4 SpA or 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 Def
Brave / Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire / Knock Off
- Protect

Seriously, this thing is ridiculous. It has increadibly slow speed that makes it guaranteed to only take a hit when it's increadibly bulky as well as the chance to hit anything in it's less bulky form, sky high attacking stats, nice coverage (And it can do great stuff with it too), the ability to break subs, and is overall just stupid (It can also make itself immune to Intimidate if it runs Contrary)

Just look at this power:
252+ Atk Shuckle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 159-187 (47.6 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Also I really don't think Deoxys-A should be unbanned

Deoxys-Attack @ Mental Herb
Abillity: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 132 SpD
Timid / Jolly Nature
- Seismic Toss / Extreme Speed
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave / Taunt

Deoxys-Attack may not be a great attacker anymore, but it's still broken, just for a different reason. This set is basically Deoxys-D on steroids, with incredible speed, more bulk, and the same ability to set up hazards as well as Deoxys-D did. Really the only thing that it has that Deoxys-D doesn't have is the ability to use all 4 of its moveslots, since it needs to use an attack to get into the form it wants to be in (But the same thing goes for most of the meta)

As for what I believe should be unbanned, I am thinking Mega Lucario, Genesect, Aegislash, and maybe Shaymin-Sky

I didn't realize shuckle had that much power... o.O What I would add on the set is gyro ball. It's usually gonna be 150 base power (maybe not with slow pokemon gaining a lot of viability) meaning that it does equal damage to stone edge with better accuracy.