[Battling 202 Test Run - Singles] Mentor Frosty vs Pupil ZhengTann

[ZhengTann]

Okay, Psychic does 14.5 damage per, Zen Headbutt does 14. Barring a crit, Eelektross would still have enough HP to survive this round. But using a combo to bury those hazards means I'm not going to be able to RestTalk my way out of a slight damage race lead (or rather, regain a minuscule amount of footing). Eep.

Super Fang > Rock Slide + Rock Slide {Lightning Dragon's Breakdown Fist!!}* > combo cooldown (Thunder Wave)
*using an enormous amount of rocks to target Eelektross' own side of the field only, in an attempt to bury all the Spikes and Stealth Rocks. Natural consequence may include Eelektross now having the high ground, and Eelektross' half of the field becoming affiliated to Rock-types. Probably won't catch/trap/entomb Deoxys in the burial, but fingers crossed for asking as much as possible.

 

[Exclaimer]

Frosty , waiting for your input on this

ZhengTann If I were to ref that, I'd ref it as "Rocks cover the spikes but since Stealth Rocks float, they are unaffected." And deoxys wouldn't take damage.

 

[Frosty]

From a balance point-of-view it makes sense. There is precedent on a Surf Combo being used to clear the field of spikes at the cost of half damage. A combo fully clearing the field for no damage seems equally viable. Flavor is eh and ref-reliant, and I personally don't see any problem with it. But it is best to find out an acceptable course of action in the ref point of view as far as the flavor is concerned.

The actions themselves are good and I approve of them. Deoxys has the lowest output of my team, so using it as an opportunity to set up (or de-set up) is the best course of action.

ZhengTann
Exclaimer

You might wanna figure out a proper combo if flavor proves to be a hindrance. TBH I'd rather just have it work as intended, since idc about flavor. But this is ref discretion through and through so it is best that the ref decides how this will go.

 

[ZhengTann]

So uh, chipping in using Bulbapedia's in-anime appearance description as reference:

- Onix's body becomes surrounded in several silver glitters that grow larger and fire around the battlefield. The energy then grows larger and forms into pointed gray rocks that sit on the ground. When the opponent sends out another Pokémon, the rocks around it rise into the air, glow white, and crush the opponent.
- Multiple glowing rocks rise in front of Steelix's body and then stop and turn into grey rocks. The rocks then get fired towards the opponent and land in the ground around the opponent. The stones glow orange and then explode if the opponent steps on them.

If Exclaim will consider this in the my plea to get Stealth Rocks effectively removed then I'm grateful. Removing all hazards is on a much higher priority than dealing any damage to Deoxys-D with the combo. As to finding another combo that would be better-suited in flavour, well, I don't think Eelektross has any other moves, that are capable of altering the terrain with the same impact as Rock Slide (the other conceivable spread move is like, Discharge).

 

[Exclaimer]

I'm convinced, the combo will now bury the Stealth Rock as well.

 

[Frosty]

for the record Exclaimer you can ref it.

On the off case you were waiting on me to say so.

 

[Exclaimer]

I'm sorry, I'm still in the middle of sinus infection recovery. I'll try to get it done tonight, but I can't promise anything.

 

[Frosty]

I will ref this round. Exclaimer refs the next one if she is active by then. If not I will just take this over, I guess.

@ Thunderstone
Levitate
46 HP | 78 EN
5/3/5/3/43 (-10% Evasion)
STATUS: Stealth Rocks, Spikes (1)

--------------------VS.--------------------

Hp: 90
En: 100
5/7/4/8/112.5
Other: RCB (6a)
Item:

Bench

@ Rare Candy
Rebound / Guts / Pressure
36 HP | 85 EN
6/3/2/3/110 (+14% Accuracy)
STATUS: OK

ZhengTann

KO'ed

KO'ed

@ Crucibellite | 61 HP | 82 EN

Frosty

KO'ed

KO'ed

Round something

DATA:

ACTION 1!

Deoxys used Psychic! (-6en)
Crit: 1 (yes)
Effect: 7 (no)
Damage: (10+3+3+1.5)= 17.5hp

Eelektross used Super Fang! (-14)
Damage: 90/5= 18hp

ACTION 2!

Deoxys used Zen Headbutt! (-5en)
Crit: 5 (no)
Effect: 4 (no)
Damage: (8+3+3)= 14hp

Eelektross used Rock Slide Combo! (-28en)
hazards were buried!

ACTION 3!

Deoxys used Psychic! (-6en)
Crit: 3 (no)
Effect: 8 (no)
Damage: (10+3+1.5)= 14.5hp

Eelektross fainted!

- - -

@ Thunderstone
Levitate
KO HP | KO EN
5/3/5/3/43 (-10% Evasion)
STATUS:

--------------------VS.--------------------

Hp: 72
En: 83
5/7/4/8/112.5
Other: RCB (3a)
Item:

Bench

ZhengTann

KO'ed

KO'ed

@ Crucibellite | 61 HP | 82 EN

Frosty

KO'ed

KO'ed

@ Rare Candy
Rebound / Guts / Pressure
36 HP | 85 EN
6/3/2/3/110 (+14% Accuracy)
STATUS: OK

ZhengTann sends with item and order
Frosty orders
Exclaimer refs

 

[ZhengTann]

Better to send in Crucibelle in the attempt to wear out Deoxys, right? Regenerator means she starts out at 71 HP after the +10. Head Smash does 14.5 damage a pop, not accounting for critical hits. Deoxys' default STABs alone should outdamage, but not enough to KO this round (Psyshock does 18.75, for example). Then again, Deoxys can just set up a Reflect and take a nap or something. Hrmm.... Off the top of my head, Rock Slide seems like the best gamble I can make. 30 EN for 35% chance that Deoxys won't flinch at all. I'll take that one.

I can sub reliably for Counter, but not Trick Room or Thunder Wave. Okay.

Scunner (Mega-Crucibelle): Rock Slide > Rock Slide > Rock Slide
IF Agahnim-Deoxys would use Counter, THEN replace that action with Sludge Wave instead.
IF Trick Room is up in battle AND Scunner-Crucibelle acts second due to higher Speed AND Scunner-Crucibelle still retains Magic Guard, THEN replace Rock Slide with Head Smash instead.
IF Trick Room is NOT up AND Scunner-Crucibelle is slower AND Scunner-Crucibelle still retains Magic Guard, THEN replace Rock Slide with Head Smash instead.

 

[Frosty]

Agree with keeping crucibelle. Ironically, Deoxys is my remaining mon that can deal the least damage to it (unless I waste an action in forme change).

Regarding the subs, see the OP: http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...o-be-deemed-legal-here-keep-it-civil.3571657/

The sub "IF Mon X would act before Mon Y based on Speed order THEN" is legal and uses up one slot to do what your two bottom subs do right now.

 

[Frosty]

ZhengTann pls

 

[ZhengTann]

Sorry, I was at work these two days. Well I guess the next worst thing against Rock Slide spam is Torment, so....

Scunner (Mega-Crucibelle): Rock Slide > Rock Slide > Rock Slide
IF Agahnim-Deoxys would use Counter, THEN replace that action with Sludge Wave instead.
IF Agahnim-Deoxys is to move before Scunner-Crucibelle based on Speed order AND Scunner-Crucibelle still retains Magic Guard, THEN replace Rock Slide with Head Smash instead.
IF Scunner-Crucibelle cannot use Rock Slide due to being under the effects of Torment, THEN replace Rock Slide with Gunk Shot instead.

 

[Frosty]

Pressure will bite hard.

But let's take your gamble.

Psyshock - Psychic - Psyshock

Exclaimer normal rolls. If you can't ref it now, lemme know I will ref this round to speed this up.

 

[Exclaimer]

@ Crucibellite
Regenerator / Mold Breaker / Liquid Ooze / Magic Guard
61 HP | 82 EN
5/3/3/4/132 (+20% Accuracy)
STATUS: OK

--------------------VS.--------------------

Pressure
72 HP | 83 EN
5/7/4/8/113
STATUS: RCB (3a)

Calcs

(All effects must be LESS THAN in order to activate. For HIT, has to be LESS THAN to hit. All rolls are out of 10,000.)

Crucibelle recovers using Regenerator! +10 HP

A1

Crucibelle uses Rock Slide!
CRIT: NO (2728>625)
EFFECT: NO (5224>3000)
8 + 3 - 2.5 = 8.5 DMG
-7 EN

Deoxys uses Psyshock!
CRIT: YES (535<625)
(8 + 3 + 3 + 1.5) x 1.5 = 23.25 DMG
-5 EN

A2

Crucibelle uses Rock Slide!
CRIT: NO (5177>625)
EFFECT: YES (155<3000)
8 + 3 - 2.5 = 8.5 DMG
-11 EN

Deoxys flinched!

A3

Crucibelle uses Rock Slide!
CRIT: NO (5998>625)
EFFECT: YES (589<3000)
8 + 3 - 2.5 = 8.5 DMG
-15 EN

Deoxys flinched!

Crucibelle: -13 HP, -33 EN
Deoxys: -26 HP, -5 EN

"Deoxys takes some Rock Slides to the face, annoying it severely. It doesn't take kindly to the barrage, so it scores a critical hit on its Psyshock! Crucibelle takes revenge by simply burying Deoxys in rocks, leaving it unable to move the rest of the round! At the end of the round, Deoxys has calmed down, returning to normal status. Now it should be easier to take down."

@ Crucibellite
Regenerator / Mold Breaker / Liquid Ooze / Magic Guard
48 HP | 49 EN
5/3/3/4/132 (+20% Accuracy)
STATUS: OK

--------------------VS.--------------------

Pressure
46 HP | 78 EN
4/6/3/7/90
STATUS: OK

Bench

ZhengTann

KO'ed

KO'ed

KO'ed

Frosty

KO'ed

KO'ed

@ Rare Candy | 36 HP | 85 EN

Frosty to order
ZhengTann to order

 

[Frosty]

Funny how your last mon destroy both my last mons.

Switching to Colossoil

 

[Frosty]

c'mon ZhengTann we are so close to the end here!

DQ in 24h

 

[ZhengTann]

I'm working on these two weekends. Weekends. And I have to fly next Tuesday midnight.
:(

If I can use Pixie Dust, I would - but I don't have it in my profile, so going with Rare Candy. Expert Belt might've been okay too, but I'd appreciate more power against Deoxys than Conkeldurr or Colossoil. Either way, I can't OAKO, so sustain is the name of the game. I want to slow your Colossoil down and KO you A2, so that you can only pull off one attack. If I go Icy Wind > Fairy STAB, you have about 5 different ways to stop me: P/E, Fake Out, DE, Substitute, Encore. So a bit of an adjustment here and hoping I didn't miss anything.

Icy Wind > Icy Wind > Icy Wind
IF Gyorg-Colossoil is slower than Lucy-Gardevoir, THEN replace that action with Dazzling Gleam instead.
IF Gyorg-Colossoil is under the effects of Substitute, THEN replace that action with Disarming Voice instead.
IF Gyorg-Colossoil is under the effects of the evasive phase of a Damaging Evasive move, THEN replace the first instance with Substitute (20HP), the second with Calm Mind, and the third with Wish instead.

 

[Frosty]

ZhengTann

That third sub is begging for me to abuse it. I mean, I get a free 20hp of damage, you get measily +1spa/spd which will fade next round and I still get an extra action to deal free damage. Substitute is NOT a free move in ASB. It is usually pointless to be used willy-nilly like this. Unlike Wish. I mean, wish would recover 25hp of damage next round for something, whereas the sub avoids like 10hp of damage. And is more expensive.

When facing D/E, your sub options are usually something like (in the following order of priority - give or take something):
a) Moves that punish D/E without risk (Thunder/Smack Down vs flying opponents, Earthquake vs undergrounded opponents etc)
b) Moves that can hit before or after the D/E (Revenge or Mach Punch)
c) Moves that punish D/E with some risk (Counter)
d) Moves that block the damage done (Evasive Teleport, Acid Armor, Barrier)
e) Moves that provide healing on the spot (Slack Off)
f) Moves that try to avoid further D/E (Trick Room, Tailwind, Gravity etc)
g) Wish
h) Moves that boost the mon on the meantime (Substitute, Calm Mind)
i) Chill

With the proper measures to prevent abuse.

Gardevoir, despite having moves coming out of the wazoo, doesn't have anything on letters a to e (it does have evasive teleport I suppose). But it has Trick Room, and if your strategy is centered on removing my speed advantage, Trick Room should be the first countermeasure to D/E, easily. Hell, Evasive Teleport, Trick Room, Wish are all better than Substitute. Substitute in ASB is a dreadful move. If you aren't countering a status move or a weak knock off, don't use it. Trust me.

So, please change that third sub. Trick Room (adjusting the first sub to be "if colossoil is to act after gardevoir within the same priority bracket), Evasive Teleport and even Wish deserve to come before Substitute and Calm Mind.


Which leads me to my second complaint: Encore. Substitute is Encore-bait. Hell, every move I have mentioned (except for Trick Room, since it acts last and makes you act first next round) is encore-bait. Given you have no encore sub (tip: I won't use substitute), it is insanely easy for me to Attack - Dig - Encore and have you lose an action next round being stuck on substitute. Or Calm Mind really, both are worth it. A dig-dig-encore would give me a free action to deal damage next round AND I would still be faster and with 36hp to hit you twice too.

So, I suggest you try to encore-proof that sub. Either by adding an anti-encore sub or by adjusting the action used on the third sub to avoid it being encored.

 

[ZhengTann]

You can't Attack > Dig > Encore. I calc'ed it so that A1 Icy Wind means you'd be too slow to do anything except Fake Out or get KO'ed. If it wasn't for fear of Knock Off, I'd replace the Dazzling Gleam in my 1st Sub for Draining Kiss. You can Dig > Encore > Attack though, which at midnight Sunday/Monday is too much for my brain to handle :(

And I'm willing to bet that after I rewrite my Substitutions per below, you're choice will be Substitute. Because while I did follow your advise and tried to foolproof the DE sub, I still have to pick between Endure and Substitute (20/25HP), which are options that will allow you to attack twice. Yes I know Dig A1 will allow you to attack twice too - I really don't see the way out, help? :(

Icy Wind > Icy Wind > Icy Wind
IF Gyorg-Colossoil is to move after Lucy-Gardevoir due to speed order, THEN replace the first instance with Dazzling Gleam, the second with Draining Kiss, and the third with Dazzling Gleam instead.
IF Gyorg-Colossoil is under the effects of the evasive phase of a Damaging Evasive move A1, THEN replace A1 with Trick Room instead.
IF Gyorg-Colossoil used Endure that action AND is NOT under the effects of Encore, THEN replace that action with Encore instead, pushing remaining queue back.

 

[Frosty]

Fake Out - Dig - COMBO (Earthquake + Earthquake)

 

[Exclaimer]

@ Rare Candy
Synchronize / Trace / Telepathy
100 HP | 100 EN
2/4/6/4/80
STATUS: OK

--------------------VS.--------------------

@ Rare Candy
Rebound / Guts / Pressure
36 HP | 85 EN
6/3/2/3/110 (+14% Accuracy)
STATUS: OK

Calcs

(All effects must be LESS THAN in order to activate. For HIT, has to be LESS THAN to hit. All rolls are out of 10,000.)

A1

Colossoil uses Fake Out!
CRIT: NO (7278>625)
4 + 3 = 7 DMG
-4 EN

Gardevoir flinched!

A2

Colossoil digs underground!
-5 EN

Gardevoir uses Icy Wind!
Missed!
-5 EN

Colossoil uses Dig!
CRIT: NO (5244>625)
8 + 4 + 3 = 15 DMG
-4 EN

A3

Gardevoir uses Icy Wind!
HIT: YES (2587<9500)
CRIT: NO (1227>625)
(6 + 4.5) x 1.5 = 15.75 DMG
-1 Speed
-11 EN

Colossoil uses Calamitous Tremor!
CRIT: NO (9075>625)
22.5 + 4 + 3 = 29.5 DMG
-30.5 EN

Gardevoir: -52 HP, -16 EN
Colossoil: -16 HP, -44 EN

Bench

ZhengTann

KO'ed

KO'ed

KO'ed

@ Crucibellite | 48 HP | 49 EN

Frosty

KO'ed

KO'ed

| 46 HP | 78 EN

"Colossoil engages in trickery to get around Gardevoir's plans; Initially, Gardevoir had wanted to take advantage of Trick Room, but a timely Fake Out prevents her from moving! After evading an Icy Wind with Dig, Colossoil prepares for a powerful Earthquake combo, dealing tons of damage to Gardevoir! However, Gardevoir now has a free action to recover."

@ Rare Candy
Synchronize / Trace / Telepathy
48 HP | 84 EN
2/4/6/4/80
STATUS: OK

--------------------VS.--------------------

@ Rare Candy
Rebound / Guts / Pressure
20 HP | 41 EN
6/3/2/3/62 (+14% Accuracy)
STATUS: -1 Speed, Cooldown

Frosty orders
ZhengTann orders
Frosty approves

 

[Frosty]

Something is telling me that that combo was uncalled for.

Earthquake - Earthquake - Earthquake
IF Draining Kiss THEN Sucker Punch + Sucker Punch
IF Fairy Typed damaging move THEN Sucker Punch

 

[ZhengTann]

Draining Kiss allows Gardevoir to regain 15 HP. But on second thought free A1 and acting first on A2 means I should capitalise A1. And maybe use the switch phase to get some sliver of momentum back. Debated whether I should use Wish to give Mega-Crucibelle some HP, but only briefly. Next round of orders will be spamming Wood Hammers and Low Kicks, with setting up SR and Reflect as a defense against Sucker Punch.

Teleport (switch) > Torment > Chill

 

[Frosty]

fair enough

Exclaimer

EDIT: BTW, given Zt has only 96hp left, I will finish this.

 

[Exclaimer]

@ Rare Candy
Synchronize / Trace / Telepathy
48 HP | 84 EN
2/4/6/4/80
STATUS: OK

--------------------VS.--------------------

@ Rare Candy
Rebound / Guts / Pressure
20 HP | 41 EN
6/3/2/3/62 (+14% Accuracy)
STATUS: -1 Speed, Cooldown

Calcs

(All effects must be LESS THAN in order to activate. For HIT, has to be LESS THAN to hit. All rolls are out of 10,000.)

A1

Gardevoir uses Teleport!
-6 EN

A2

Gardevoir uses Torment!
-10 EN

Colossoil can't move!

A3

Gardevoir chills.
+12 EN

Colossoil uses Struggle!
CRIT: NO (7605>625)
5 + 3 = 8 DMG
3.2 RECOIL
-5 EN

Gardevoir: -8 HP, -4 EN
Colossoil: -3 HP, -5 EN

Bench

ZhengTann

KO'ed

KO'ed

KO'ed

@ Crucibellite | 48 HP | 49 EN

Frosty

KO'ed

KO'ed

| 46 HP | 78 EN

@ Rare Candy
Synchronize / Trace / Telepathy
40 HP | 80 EN
2/4/6/4/80
STATUS: Teleporting!

--------------------VS.--------------------

@ Rare Candy
Rebound / Guts / Pressure
17 HP | 36 EN
6/3/2/3/110 (+14% Accuracy)
STATUS: Tormented (4a)

ZhengTann sends out Crucibelle and orders
Frosty orders