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Metagame BDSP Doubles OU

Poli

watch the world we love
is a Pre-Contributor
Old thread here!!
Approved by Tbolt

Welcome to BDSP 6v6 Doubles!! BDSP brings a new twist on the DPP formula, keeping the mon pool relatively similar while adding in better movepools and Hidden Abilities. Lack of Hidden Power in this Gen also neuters some mons ability to cover every option and strengthens Mons such as Gastrodon or Garchomp that can abuse the now lack of rampant Grass and Ice coverage respectively.


Council
Poli
Team Rocket CO
Lifetouches

Rules:
Clauses

  • HP Percentage Mod
  • Endless Battle Clause
  • Species Clause
  • Gravity Sleep Clause
  • Evasion Moves Clause
  • Evasion Abilities Clause (New)
  • Evasion Items Clause (New)
Bans
  • Smeargle
  • Mewtwo
  • Lugia
  • Ho-oh
  • Groudon
  • Kyogre
  • Rayquaza
  • Dialga
  • Palkia
  • Giratina-Altered
  • Giratina-Origin
  • Arceus
  • Alolan and Galarian formes of Pokemon
  • Pokemon with a national Pokedex number of 494 and above
  • Dark Void
Resources

Pending!

Discord

https://discord.gg/Fp84ReUzpR
 
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First time really trying out a doubles tier in any capacity so I don't really know what I'm doing but it's really cool to see people want to try out and revive an old bdsp metagame that hasn't seen play in years.

Anyways just to get some conversation going, some thoughts on a few mons

:ss/togekiss:

Togekiss is definitely one of the tier's top mons, one of the few Follow Me users in the format and easily the best of the bunch. Carries other good utility like Thunder Wave for speed control and Life Dew for team healing, there's probably ways to make use of After You, Baton Pass, and Psych Up though. Nasty Ploy Super Luck sets are pretty nice, while support sets with Serene Grace are very easy to fit onto teams and get value from. Typing and bulk are really good and let it check a lot of good mons like the dragons and fighters as well as just a random assortment of other stuff. Really only truly checked by the electrics but you can pair kiss with Lightning Rod to remedy that issue (aside from Discharge that is).


:ss/weezing:

Weezing is pretty cool thanks to Neutralizing Gas and access to Toxic Spikes. The former helps mitigate a lot of annoying abilities like Intimidate, Levitate, redirection abilties, and weather abilities, whereas Tspikes are easy to get value from in a format with seemingly no real grounded poisons and a lot of levitaters getting affected by them when they wouldn't otherwise. Removal doesn't really exist aside from Latios but I find Defog Latios to be pretty passive and exploitable, plus it can't switch in with Tspikes up and Weezing on the field or else it would get poisoned regardless. Also just a good check to fighters and some other physical attackers that aren't clicking EQ. More likely on the more niche side of things, however.


:ss/shaymin-sky:

Skymin is actually pretty stupid and I wouldn't mind seeing it go. Stupid fast mon that outspeeds the entire unboosted meta aside from Deoxys/Deoxys Attack and Deoxys Speed with Serene Grace shenanigans to make you want to die whenever looking at it on preview. Air Slash flinches are one thing, but Seed Flare drops being near guaranteed is busted as hell when you can quickly follow it up with another strong special attacker and put a massive chunk into or outright move a mon of your choice. Really the only arguments I can see for it staying are speed control options being more dynamic and varied in doubles than singles, with stuff like Tailwind and Trick Room being more prominent as well as stuff like Fake Out, Thunder Wave, and speed-boosting weather abilities letting you neutralize and/or get the jump on Skymin before it can do the Dumb Shit. but yea please I think this should go eventually


hopefully this tier sees more people willing to play and develop it some more, I doubt it's going to be a world beater of a tier but I feel confident that with some work and development it can be made into something solid enough to play
 
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First time really trying out a doubles tier in any capacity so I don't really know what I'm doing but it's really cool to see people want to try out and revive an old bdsp metagame that hasn't seen play in years.

Anyways just to get some conversation going, some thoughts on a few mons

:ss/togekiss:

Togekiss is definitely one of the tier's top mons, one of the few Follow Me users in the format and easily the best of the bunch. Carries other good utility like Thunder Wave for speed control and Life Dew for team healing, there's probably ways to make use of After You, Baton Pass, and Psych Up though. Nasty Ploy Super Luck sets are pretty nice, while support sets with Serene Grace are very easy to fit onto teams and get value from. Typing and bulk are really good and let it check a lot of good mons like the dragons and fighters as well as just a random assortment of other stuff. Really only truly checked by the electrics but you can pair kiss with Lightning Rod to remedy that issue (aside from Discharge that is).


:ss/weezing:

Weezing is pretty cool thanks to Neutralizing Gas and access to Toxic Spikes. The former helps mitigate a lot of annoying abilities like Intimidate, Levitate, redirection abilties, and weather abilities, whereas Tspikes are easy to get value from in a format with seemingly no real grounded poisons and a lot of levitaters getting affected by them when they wouldn't otherwise. Removal doesn't really exist aside from Latios but I find Defog Latios to be pretty passive and exploitable, plus it can't switch in with Tspikes up and Weezing on the field or else it would get poisoned regardless. Also just a good check to fighters and some other physical attackers that aren't clicking EQ. More likely on the more niche side of things, however.


:ss/shaymin-sky:

Skymin is actually pretty stupid and I wouldn't mind seeing it go. Stupid fast mon that outspeeds the entire unboosted meta aside from Deoxys/Deoxys Attack and Deoxys Speed with Serene Grace shenanigans to make you want to die whenever looking at it on preview. Air Slash flinches are one thing, but Seed Flare drops being near guaranteed is busted as hell when you can quickly follow it up with another strong special attacker and put a massive chunk into or outright move a mon of your choice. Really the only arguments I can see for it staying are speed control options being more dynamic and varied in doubles than singles, with stuff like Tailwind and Trick Room being more prominent as well as stuff like Fake Out, Thunder Wave, and speed-boosting weather abilities letting you neutralize and/or get the jump on Skymin before it can do the Dumb Shit. but yea please I think this should go eventually


hopefully this tier sees more people willing to play and develop it some more, I doubt it's going to be a world beater of a tier but I feel confident that with some work and development it can be made into something solid enough to play
if Weezing got Gas in this game doesnt it mean you could pair it with Regigigas?
 
if Weezing got Gas in this game doesnt it mean you could pair it with Regigigas?
Regigigas is definitely an option you can pair with Weezing, the first team I made actually had the two together, but it's definitely pretty gimmicky since it just does not function at all if Weezing isn't on the field with it so it's effectively a dead slot if Weezing is down. Same can be said about Slaking
 
Regigigas is definitely an option you can pair with Weezing, the first team I made actually had the two together, but it's definitely pretty gimmicky since it just does not function at all if Weezing isn't on the field with it so it's effectively a dead slot if Weezing is down. Same can be said about Slaking
yea i see i just didnt think gaszing was in this game thats neat
 
My First-Impressions on the Metagame!

Peak music to keep yalls attention span

The metagame is VERY fun, it feels very fair (well about as fair as a tier with Skymin can be) and games never feel unwinnable. The pool of viable mons is insane and there's a lot cool tech just waiting to be discovered.
This is my current tier list:
1777059242736.png
====================================​
Some standout guys from the high tiers:

Deoxys-A
:deoxys-attack: By far the fastest mon in the tier, it has crazy good coverage and an absurdly good exclusive move. It also is just a huge min-maxxed statball and fits on every team. You can either run a more physically oriented set with Extreme Speed to get ahead of Priority moves that it is very weak to, or can run a specially oriented set with Psycho Boost/Shadow Ball/Ice Beam and cleans teams with ease. Even though it is very exploitable because of exploding into Rocks + Priority, I can absolutely see it getting banned in the future and I'd be happy to see it go. :deoxys-attack:

Skymin
:shaymin-sky: Very fast, nutty STABs and Serene Grace Air Slash sounds like a horrific combinations of traits for a staple mon to be good in a tier but honestly it doesn't feel completely unfair due to just how awful its typing is. Also another mon I would be happy to see go but that's exclusively because of Air Slash, I think that what is essentially Metal Sound with Grass STAB legs is very neat. Not a lot to say but I'm indifferent on a potential ban. :shaymin-sky:

Latios
:latios: Quite possibly the coolest support mon I've ever used in a Doubles tier, it has EVERYTHING - Tailwind (1 of like, 4 mons that get it), Thunder Wave, Helping Hand, Defog (another extremely rare sight in this tier), Heal Pulse, Screens, Safeguard and what really pushes it over the edge: Ally Switch. Ally Switch is still completely unnerfed and can be used multiple times in a row which is very frustrating. It is also extremely oppressive in the front that it has a surprisingly high SpA with no investment so if you read it incorrectly, you need to eat a STAB Draco Meteor or Psyshock. All of this combined makes it basically necessary on all teams due to being one of just a handful of mons that have some really broken support moves. I would genuinely push for a ban on it as Latias can replace it very easily without being nearly as oppressive thanks to less SpA and missing Ally Switch. I know it sounds like a lot to get rid of what should be a passive mon but it just, isn't. We should prolly nuke it. :latios:

Garchomp
:garchomp: Very solid physical attacker that can abuse a number of item options, mostly Scarf and Life Orb. Earthquake and Dragon Claw are very strong STAB options that hit a significant chunk of damage to basically all of the tier, and possessing alternative options for the few mons that can answer it well. Excellent cleaner with the potential to both fit as a Lead to set up Rocks or in the back to threaten basically anything your opponent could have. It's the first very splashable mon that feels genuinely fair to face and to use, neat overall. :Garchomp:

Mamoswine
:mamoswine: Bit of an odd sounding inclusion among the absolute powerhouses above it, but this mon is absurdly oppressive when paired with Rocks as STAB Choice Banded Ice Shard off 130 Base attack is just nuts, especially when all 4 of the mons above it evaporate to Priority and lose 1v1 against it. The issue with Mamoswine is that it often loses to a lot of the mons lower on the tier list, but still really good regardless. If Mamoswine ever goes under Trick Room it is very difficult to position around thanks to STAB Earthquake or Icicle Crash sweeping teams and it's excellent natural bulk meaning Mamoswine will live a lot of attacks with basically no investment. Mamoswine is def my favourite mon in the metagame at the moment but will get gradually worse as the meta develops and more things get banned. :mamoswine:
====================================​
Thats my explanations to the mons I believe to be S tier rn, now I'll talk about some lower tiered mons (but not all bc I'm lazy :3c)
====================================​
Bronzong
:bronzong: Bronzong is graced with some of the best typing in the tier, being resistant against the STABs of all of the best mons right now, and also has really good Support moves like Rocks, Screens and Trick Room. Levitate gives it a spectacular matchup into Garchomp and it completely walls Mamoswine and checks it with Gyro Ball (an amazing move to hit the metagame as a whole with). Bronzong is just very consistent with setting up and can hold its own fairly well. :bronzong:

Purugly
:purugly: Ok so Purugly has Own Tempo with Fake Out and STAB Quick Attack, so what you can do is T1 Fake Out + Latios Tailwind and T2 side Swagger with Latios and Body Slam and Facade (if on Flame Orb because 140 Base Power STAB at +2 is very funny and OHKOs anything without a Sash for the most part). Own Tempo also randomly gives it an immunity to intimidate fsr so once you get that +2, it is very difficult to stop. Just a funny mon that I for sure would keep an eye on as the metagame develops. :purugly:

Kingler
:kingler: Soda Eesti PULL UP. We got Doubles Kinger at its full power thanks to its access to Ally Switch for some reason because BDSP is the only game where it gets it!!! Queenler has the option of 2 excellent abilities, where it can either get an Intimidate immunity to abuse Knock Off and have a flexible item slot, or can run Sheer Force with a Life Orb to clean up opposing mons with ease. We love the Crab and it has a great niche that it feels excellently. Love to see it. :kingler:
====================================​
Thats all I really wanted to talk about and the tier is amazing right now but absolutely needs some bans to be taken seriously. Here's some action I would like to see:
Deoxys-attack, Shaymin-Sky and Latios all need to be wiped off the face of the earth because it is just impossible to take the metagame as not a parody while they are legal.

Why not Ally Switch?
Ok so I don't think Ally Switch needs to be removed at all, the only relevant abuser of it is Latios (which ideally gets replaced by Latias, who notably doesn't have Ally Switch) and it is awkwardly slapped onto a bunch of lower tiered mons with meh Bulk and Utility. Removing it just clips the wings of a bunch of mons that weren't exactly topping the Viability Rankings with it anyway.
====================================​
Thanks for reading my yap, please give the metagame a try c:
 
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My First-Impressions on the Metagame!

Peak music to keep yalls attention span

The metagame is VERY fun, it feels very fair (well about as fair as a tier with Skymin can be) and games never feel unwinnable. The pool of viable mons is insane and there's a lot cool tech just waiting to be discovered.
This is my current tier list:
====================================​
Some standout guys from the high tiers:

Deoxys-A
:deoxys-attack: By far the fastest mon in the tier, it has crazy good coverage and an absurdly good exclusive move. It also is just a huge min-maxxed statball and fits on every team. You can either run a more physically oriented set with Extreme Speed to get ahead of Priority moves that it is very weak to, or can run a specially oriented set with Psycho Boost/Shadow Ball/Ice Beam and cleans teams with ease. Even though it is very exploitable because of exploding into Rocks + Priority, I can absolutely see it getting banned in the future and I'd be happy to see it go. :deoxys-attack:

Skymin
:shaymin-sky: Very fast, nutty STABs and Serene Grace Air Slash sounds like a horrific combinations of traits for a staple mon to be good in a tier but honestly it doesn't feel completely unfair due to just how awful its typing is. Also another mon I would be happy to see go but that's exclusively because of Air Slash, I think that what is essentially Metal Sound with Grass STAB legs is very neat. Not a lot to say but I'm indifferent on a potential ban. :shaymin-sky:

Latios
:latios: Quite possibly the coolest support mon I've ever used in a Doubles tier, it has EVERYTHING - Tailwind (1 of like, 4 mons that get it), Thunder Wave, Helping Hand, Defog (another extremely rare sight in this tier), Heal Pulse, Screens, Safeguard and what really pushes it over the edge: Ally Switch. Ally Switch is still completely unnerfed and can be used multiple times in a row which is very frustrating. It is also extremely oppressive in the front that it has a surprisingly high SpA with no investment so if you read it incorrectly, you need to eat a STAB Draco Meteor or Psyshock. All of this combined makes it basically necessary on all teams due to being one of just a handful of mons that have some really broken support moves. I would genuinely push for a ban on it as Latias can replace it very easily without being nearly as oppressive thanks to less SpA and missing Ally Switch. I know it sounds like a lot to get rid of what should be a passive mon but it just, isn't. We should prolly nuke it. :latios:

Garchomp
:garchomp: Very solid physical attacker that can abuse a number of item options, mostly Scarf and Life Orb. Earthquake and Dragon Claw are very strong STAB options that hit a significant chunk of damage to basically all of the tier, and possessing alternative options for the few mons that can answer it well. Excellent cleaner with the potential to both fit as a Lead to set up Rocks or in the back to threaten basically anything your opponent could have. It's the first very splashable mon that feels genuinely fair to face and to use, neat overall. :Garchomp:

Mamoswine
:mamoswine: Bit of an odd sounding inclusion among the absolute powerhouses above it, but this mon is absurdly oppressive when paired with Rocks as STAB Choice Banded Ice Shard off 130 Base attack is just nuts, especially when all 4 of the mons above it evaporate to Priority and lose 1v1 against it. The issue with Mamoswine is that it often loses to a lot of the mons lower on the tier list, but still really good regardless. If Mamoswine ever goes under Trick Room it is very difficult to position around thanks to STAB Earthquake or Icicle Crash sweeping teams and it's excellent natural bulk meaning Mamoswine will live a lot of attacks with basically no investment. Mamoswine is def my favourite mon in the metagame at the moment but will get gradually worse as the meta develops and more things get banned. :mamoswine:
====================================​
Thats my explanations to the mons I believe to be S tier rn, now I'll talk about some lower tiered mons (but not all bc I'm lazy :3c)
====================================​
Bronzong
:bronzong: Bronzong is graced with some of the best typing in the tier, being resistant against the STABs of all of the best mons right now, and also has really good Support moves like Rocks, Screens and Trick Room. Levitate gives it a spectacular matchup into Garchomp and it completely walls Mamoswine and checks it with Gyro Ball (an amazing move to hit the metagame as a whole with). Bronzong is just very consistent with setting up and can hold its own fairly well. :bronzong:

Purugly
:purugly: Ok so Purugly has Own Tempo with Fake Out and STAB Quick Attack, so what you can do is T1 Fake Out + Latios Tailwind and T2 side Swagger with Latios and Body Slam and Facade (if on Flame Orb because 140 Base Power STAB at +2 is very funny and OHKOs anything without a Sash for the most part). Own Tempo also randomly gives it an immunity to intimidate fsr so once you get that +2, it is very difficult to stop. Just a funny mon that I for sure would keep an eye on as the metagame develops. :purugly:

Kingler
:kingler: Soda Eesti PULL UP. We got Doubles Kinger at its full power thanks to its access to Ally Switch for some reason because BDSP is the only game where it gets it!!! Queenler has the option of 2 excellent abilities, where it can either get an Intimidate immunity to abuse Knock Off and have a flexible item slot, or can run Sheer Force with a Life Orb to clean up opposing mons with ease. We love the Crab and it has a great niche that it feels excellently. Love to see it. :kingler:
====================================​
Thats all I really wanted to talk about and the tier is amazing right now but absolutely needs some bans to be taken seriously. Here's some action I would like to see:
Deoxys-attack, Shaymin-Sky and Latios all need to be wiped off the face of the earth because it is just impossible to take the metagame as not a parody while they are legal.

Why not Ally Switch?
Ok so I don't think Ally Switch needs to be removed at all, the only relevant abuser of it is Latios (which ideally gets replaced by Latias, who notably doesn't have Ally Switch) and it is awkwardly slapped onto a bunch of lower tiered mons with meh Bulk and Utility. Removing it just clips the wings of a bunch of mons that weren't exactly topping the Viability Rankings with it anyway.
====================================​
Thanks for reading my yap, please give the metagame a try c:
Sick analysis, Kingler isn't real /j /nj /frfr

:manectric-mega:: Merged these two posts.

Mons I want to bring into the discussion:

:raichu:
With Lightning Rod, Fake Out, Encore, and Nuzzle in a T-Wave spam rich environment, I don't see this choice going wrong unless para gets banned.

:kangaskhan:
No Ghost threats to speak of, but Scrappy stil blocks Intim and we get to use STAB Fake Out. I wonder if Fake Out Last Resort still works.

:heracross:
Huge Attack stat, good move pool, seems like a decent scarfer.

:hippowdon:
Bulky Sand setter, a little more passive but tankier than Tar.
 
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as the guy who used forre before it was added here, i do not think it is good at all. really passive and doesnt offer much reason to use over different steels, only reason i used it was because the team i used it on needed to compress a steel type and hazard removal so that breloom could maintain its focus sash if hazards went up at some point. best case i can see it being in the low Cs, though stuff like Raikou, Suicune, and maybe Weezing/Sableye/Kangaskhan are definitely much better than it imo and should be higher overall
 
as the guy who used forre before it was added here, i do not think it is good at all. really passive and doesnt offer much reason to use over different steels, only reason i used it was because the team i used it on needed to compress a steel type and hazard removal so that breloom could maintain its focus sash if hazards went up at some point. best case i can see it being in the low Cs, though stuff like Raikou, Suicune, and maybe Weezing/Sableye/Kangaskhan are definitely much better than it imo and should be higher overall
Fair point, no worries, I'm definitely open to changing this VR.
 
ran the usage stats for the mickey maushold tour while at work last night

:hitmontop: BDSP DOU :hitmontop:
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Hitmontop          |   26 |  68.42% |  42.31% |
| 2    | Latios             |   23 |  60.53% |  43.48% |
| 3    | Scizor             |   13 |  34.21% |  76.92% |
| 4    | Rotom-Wash         |   11 |  28.95% |  54.55% |
| 5    | Suicune            |   10 |  26.32% |  50.00% |
| 5    | Bronzong           |   10 |  26.32% |  40.00% |
| 7    | Deoxys-Attack      |    9 |  23.68% |  55.56% |
| 7    | Heatran            |    9 |  23.68% |  22.22% |
| 9    | Togekiss           |    8 |  21.05% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Raikou             |    7 |  18.42% |  85.71% |
| 10   | Kingdra            |    7 |  18.42% |  71.43% |
| 10   | Garchomp           |    7 |  18.42% |  57.14% |
| 10   | Mamoswine          |    7 |  18.42% |  28.57% |
| 14   | Shaymin-Sky        |    6 |  15.79% |  83.33% |
| 15   | Pelipper           |    5 |  13.16% |  80.00% |
| 15   | Metagross          |    5 |  13.16% |  60.00% |
| 15   | Cresselia          |    5 |  13.16% |  40.00% |
| 15   | Tyranitar          |    5 |  13.16% |  40.00% |
| 15   | Deoxys-Speed       |    5 |  13.16% |  20.00% |
| 20   | Rhyperior          |    4 |  10.53% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Breloom            |    4 |  10.53% |  50.00% |
| 20   | Arcanine           |    4 |  10.53% |  25.00% |
| 23   | Infernape          |    3 |   7.89% | 100.00% |
| 23   | Politoed           |    3 |   7.89% |  33.33% |
| 25   | Weavile            |    2 |   5.26% | 100.00% |
| 25   | Murkrow            |    2 |   5.26% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Abomasnow          |    2 |   5.26% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Darkrai            |    2 |   5.26% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Gastrodon          |    2 |   5.26% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Ludicolo           |    2 |   5.26% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Mew                |    2 |   5.26% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Latias             |    2 |   5.26% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Gyarados           |    2 |   5.26% |  50.00% |
| 25   | Hariyama           |    2 |   5.26% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Registeel          |    1 |   2.63% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Articuno           |    1 |   2.63% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Hitmonchan         |    1 |   2.63% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Nidoking           |    1 |   2.63% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Manaphy            |    1 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Azumarill          |    1 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Zapdos             |    1 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Tangrowth          |    1 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Raichu             |    1 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Exeggutor          |    1 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Sableye            |    1 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Entei              |    1 |   2.63% |   0.00% |
 
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