Beedrill is not so great of late game sweeper, if at all, and it's niche is a hit and run uturner, frail with absurb power. Also carries EP, and isn't potentially outped by Heatran, and isn't trapped by scarf magnezone. Band Scizor is slow and as a result easily to force out, whereas Beedrill is not, and can uturn away from most fast threats.
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Pokémon Beedrill
- Thread starter RoyalDispenser
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To be honest, I don't really like all the hype Mega Beedrill is getting. I'd say it'll be in BL. It's mainly going to be used for U-Turn powered by Adaptability. Stealth Rocks it needs to worry about as well as Talonflame. Mega Beedrill's defenses are utter crap and thin as paper with a base 45 defense isn't a happy Mega Beedrill. Despite the kind of coverage it has, it doesn't get STAB from Knock Off or Drill Run. Mega Sableye can even cripple it with a Wil-O-Wisp.
Mega Beedrill needs support if it wants to really shine.
Mega Beedrill needs support if it wants to really shine.
You're better off u-turning to pop it, scare them out with something else and deal with it later.
I agree, M-Beedrill can't get a Swords Dance set just with a simple reason commented before: Priority.
The only Pokemon I can see as proper Teamates are Heatran,, since it walls its natural prey a.k.a Talonflame and can even Stealth Rock or Ancient Power it.
Magezone and Zapdos for Scizor.
Also Dragonite can be a problem as it has ExtremeSpeed.
Anyway, I don't see M Beedrill as a potential Pokemon on OU tier for the lacking defense reason.
Scizor's lack of speed can be an asset when it's U-turn spamming, especially with Mega Scizor's bulk.
Completely true, but Beedrill is an offensive pivot, not a defensive pivot. Speed and Power is just as useful as bulk. Mega Beedrill obviously requires a decent amount of support, and somebody mentioned that Mega Sableye can cripple it with will o wisp. Huh? I'd love to see Mega Sableye outspeed it before Drill uturns away. No prankster remember? Even if it is first turn, Beedrill still carries Protect. I don't understand how thats relevant.
Who said you should mega evolve sableye yet anyway? Sableye can stay non-mega, burn, and set up calm minds/recover spam on M-beedrill all day long.
M-beedrill is going to be an interesting mega to see in practice once the meta settles.. His speed and power is very pressuring to most teams unprepared, however he can easily be dead weight and struggle against teams using common OU threats. His potental is up there but in practice the usage statistics are not in his favor with the few checks he has beeing the most commonly seen pokemon in OU particularly Landorus-T.
M-Beedrill is one of the reasons I joined Showdown and started to mess around. I run this set, which is quite similar to the OP:
Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Sniper -> Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Drill Run
- Poison Jab
- Protect
Now, it may seem a little bit strange to not run max Speed, but hear me out. at 218 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature, Beedrill outspeeds almost all of the unboosted metagame (leaving only Mega-Sceptile and a Jolly Mega-Aerodactyl), and a not insignificant amount of the boosted metagame (most importantly, Scarfed Timid Heatran). Outspeeding Jolly M-Aerodactyl, M-Salamance with a DDance up, or M-Sceptile isn't possible even with max speed investment and is not necessary in the case of Sceptile who cannot 1HKO us but who we easily 1HKO in return with Poison Jab, so why invest in more Speed?
So, why invest that back into Defense? Priority. No amount of Defense investment is going to save Waspinator here from Talonflame or M-Pinsir (or even, sadly, Bisharp's Sucker Punch), but I ran some calcs and found that that 38 defense is sometimes the difference between being 1HKO'd by things like, Mamoswine's Ice Shard, Azumarill's Aqua Jet, Lucario's E-Speed, and Diggersby's Quick Attack after Stealth Rocks, and staying alive to Turn and Burn out. For example:
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Beedrill: 173-204 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
versus...
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 38 Def Beedrill: 160-188 (59 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
M-Drill is ludicrously fragile, so every time he gets to smack something with U-turn instead of switching out it's a powerful boost for your team considering that against many of those threats (Diggersby, Mamoswine, Weavile) he's dealing 75%+ to them with U-turn which is a huge momentum gain.
All that being said, I'm not sure he's got what it takes to make it in OU. His list of things he hates, in addition to those aforementioned Priority users (plus Offensive M-Scizor and anything that's picked up a boost from DDance/Swords) also includes Landorus-T, Stealth Rock, Sableye, M-Aerodactyl, Prankster T-Wave, Stealth Rock, Burns, Stealth Rock, numerous Pokemon immune to or dual-resisting his STABs, and finally Stealth Rock. It's a lot of support to find on your team for a momentum generating Pokemon yet, and I still haven't found the perfect set-up although Rotom-W seems like a good starting place.
Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Sniper -> Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Drill Run
- Poison Jab
- Protect
Now, it may seem a little bit strange to not run max Speed, but hear me out. at 218 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature, Beedrill outspeeds almost all of the unboosted metagame (leaving only Mega-Sceptile and a Jolly Mega-Aerodactyl), and a not insignificant amount of the boosted metagame (most importantly, Scarfed Timid Heatran). Outspeeding Jolly M-Aerodactyl, M-Salamance with a DDance up, or M-Sceptile isn't possible even with max speed investment and is not necessary in the case of Sceptile who cannot 1HKO us but who we easily 1HKO in return with Poison Jab, so why invest in more Speed?
So, why invest that back into Defense? Priority. No amount of Defense investment is going to save Waspinator here from Talonflame or M-Pinsir (or even, sadly, Bisharp's Sucker Punch), but I ran some calcs and found that that 38 defense is sometimes the difference between being 1HKO'd by things like, Mamoswine's Ice Shard, Azumarill's Aqua Jet, Lucario's E-Speed, and Diggersby's Quick Attack after Stealth Rocks, and staying alive to Turn and Burn out. For example:
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Beedrill: 173-204 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
versus...
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 38 Def Beedrill: 160-188 (59 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
M-Drill is ludicrously fragile, so every time he gets to smack something with U-turn instead of switching out it's a powerful boost for your team considering that against many of those threats (Diggersby, Mamoswine, Weavile) he's dealing 75%+ to them with U-turn which is a huge momentum gain.
All that being said, I'm not sure he's got what it takes to make it in OU. His list of things he hates, in addition to those aforementioned Priority users (plus Offensive M-Scizor and anything that's picked up a boost from DDance/Swords) also includes Landorus-T, Stealth Rock, Sableye, M-Aerodactyl, Prankster T-Wave, Stealth Rock, Burns, Stealth Rock, numerous Pokemon immune to or dual-resisting his STABs, and finally Stealth Rock. It's a lot of support to find on your team for a momentum generating Pokemon yet, and I still haven't found the perfect set-up although Rotom-W seems like a good starting place.
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Mega beedril is certainly not the best pokemon to use in OU and he will probably end up in the BL tier. Of course, playing to bees strengths is what u ned to do and not carelessly waste him. If I could compare him to any other pokemon I would see him as a faster version of darmanitan. Frail, but they can hit like trucks, but with the proper support they can be great additions to Ur team. Of course, darmanitan has been deemed unviable, but I don't think the rapping killer bee is going to suffer the same fate. Fool, ya fool!
Don't you mean 252 Atk/40 Def/216 Spe, as a pokemon gets one stat point every four EVs, and 38 and 218 are not divisible by four? With this spread, Beedrill doesn't lose any speed points, and actually gets one more Defense point.
Uh, yes. Totally what I meant and not at all a bad math mistake when building the spread. Thanks for the catch!
silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
K let's talk about probably the most hyped mega in OU. It is fuckin cool, i have to admit it, But it has a Lot of flaws that, despite its nice qualities that Give it a niche in the meta, prevent it to be effective at its best. First of all it struggles to get a free turn to mega evolve, so it usually has to waste a slot for protect that not only limitates its effectiveness, but gives your opponent a free turn to setup or switch. Secondly it is stealth rock weak, not exactly a good thing for a hit-and-runner, so if your defigger/spinner has a bad matchup with the opposing rock setter you'll have a hard time (i suggest starmie with hp fire cause it beats more or less every rock setter but mew and clefable, which are handled by beedrill). Third, it is fuckin frail, it can switch in on nothing and has to rely on slow voltturn or double switches to come in, plus it is very Susceptible to priorities especially one of the most common: flying.
Another thing is that it faces a Lot of competition for the mega slot as there are many other megas that do the same job, which is hit and run away vs offensive teams (lopunny, manectric, sceptile)
Finally, it has meh offensive typing, that can Be mitigated by good coverage, but still it isn't optimal.
However as i said it has some qualities to earn a place in the meta: its great speed and attack boosted by adaptability make it a pain in the ass for offense to handle it, so given an adequate support it can be effective.
Another thing is that it faces a Lot of competition for the mega slot as there are many other megas that do the same job, which is hit and run away vs offensive teams (lopunny, manectric, sceptile)
Finally, it has meh offensive typing, that can Be mitigated by good coverage, but still it isn't optimal.
However as i said it has some qualities to earn a place in the meta: its great speed and attack boosted by adaptability make it a pain in the ass for offense to handle it, so given an adequate support it can be effective.
I ctrl+f'd Salamence and didn't find it.
silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
I said "in OU", are you really considering mega mence an OU mon?
So far I've not seen anyone consider Pin Missile as a secondary Bug-type. If it gets a high roll on the number of hits this is Beedrill's strongest attack by far and allows you to stay in and attempt a sweep late-game unlike U-turn. It also has the bonus of not making contact with the opponent, and as such removes Ferrothorn from the list of its counters. If you get four or five hits against Ferro, with an Adamant mega bee, it's a rather easy 2HKO.
Pin Missile is too luck based, and the whole point of using Mega-Beedrill is to maintain momentum and switch advantage.
BeeZone is probably the best thing about Mega Beedrill. Its(and hopefully a sweeper who shares them) main counters get screwed over by Magnezone. That attack stat and Ability is an illusion, Beedrill is a scout.
BeeZone is probably the best thing about Mega Beedrill. Its(and hopefully a sweeper who shares them) main counters get screwed over by Magnezone. That attack stat and Ability is an illusion, Beedrill is a scout.
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The thing is that MBeedrill can only sweep once 1) it has a sub up or opposing priority users are dead and 2) walls are sufficiently weakened to allow it to sweep.
2 isn't too hard on its own, but 1 is a nightmare. Since there's team Preview, the opponent will be saving their Talonflame/Mega-Pinsir/Weavile/Scizor/etc. until MBeedrill steps in and tries to mega evolve and sweep.
It's better to use it as a hit-and-run attacker and uturner than trying to sweep. The difference with Aerodactly was that is actually could take at least some priority attacks if it was healthy (plus it was rock type). Beedrill's base 0.5 Defense and poor defensive typing really hampers it.
Mega Beedrill even with an very good Speed and Attack status, it requires a well prepared team to be used properly. In my opnion, on a team based on Beedrill it's not necessary a Defoger, because with ou without Stealth Rock on field, any single attack, Super-Effective or not will kill him immediately. And should not be used against tanks, Probably with a defense like that, even an Aqua Jet from Azumarill without Belly Drum would kill him. Use Protect it's nice way to know what's the opponent is up to, use protect in the first turn of MBeedrill is an option to see if the opponent has priority attacks or even Sucker Punchs, and think a way to evade these attacks.
Although that useless defense, I think MBeedrill a very nice pokemon if used properly, being capable to exceed the speed of a lot of pokemons, like Greninja. And his Ability is simply perfect, making Beedrill the best fairy sweeper of the game, one of the most feared types of the Six Gen.
Although that useless defense, I think MBeedrill a very nice pokemon if used properly, being capable to exceed the speed of a lot of pokemons, like Greninja. And his Ability is simply perfect, making Beedrill the best fairy sweeper of the game, one of the most feared types of the Six Gen.
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A fan favorite like this is always going to have serious usage and effects on the meta, even if the stabs lose to common things like skarm or gliscor it doesn't matter if you uturned out every time. Everything that resists it is vulnerable to rotom-w and it seems pretty straightforward to hack together a beedrill/rotom/scarflando voltturn core and go to town. No real obvious holes or weaknesses.
What I'm wondering is, what kinds of teammates are people using to set up hazards (deter the opponent from freely switching so much), keep hazards away (to protect the bee), or to remove them? Lati@s is every offensive player's first choice for a defog, but bisharp is climbing up in usage again and it might be time to come up with a few different or useful defog/spinners for those situations when voltturning around so much is starting to have serious health effects.
Now lati@s have there obvious merits and it's hard to suggest something that is quite on the same level as them but I was thinking that since there are so many things that outspeed latis now, and furthermore there are many fairies that can set up on a latias (and beedrill cant exactly switch in to most decent fairies), maybe some more obscure hazard teammates could be useful to build around the generally standard bee/rotom/lando.
But something that comes to mind is Empoleon which has plenty of coverage options to go along with hazard control, has pretty cool typing to match up with landorus, and offers a fairly reliable greninja switch in.
Another option possibly worth considering is scarf trick Xatu. Alright, it's pretty niche and kind of crazy to suggest, but being able to passively block hazards and not having to waste a move on a defog is reason enough to at least give it a thought. It also has u-turn and along with psychic and one other targeted coverage move I could see it being worthwhile.
What I'd like to see is more teammate suggestions for beedrill either to remove its counters, to keep it alive longer, to keep the infuriating voltturn alive, or to just plain be safe against some threats in the meta. I play stall far more often than offense and I'm curious what other players out there are doing with their beedrills.
What I'm wondering is, what kinds of teammates are people using to set up hazards (deter the opponent from freely switching so much), keep hazards away (to protect the bee), or to remove them? Lati@s is every offensive player's first choice for a defog, but bisharp is climbing up in usage again and it might be time to come up with a few different or useful defog/spinners for those situations when voltturning around so much is starting to have serious health effects.
Now lati@s have there obvious merits and it's hard to suggest something that is quite on the same level as them but I was thinking that since there are so many things that outspeed latis now, and furthermore there are many fairies that can set up on a latias (and beedrill cant exactly switch in to most decent fairies), maybe some more obscure hazard teammates could be useful to build around the generally standard bee/rotom/lando.
But something that comes to mind is Empoleon which has plenty of coverage options to go along with hazard control, has pretty cool typing to match up with landorus, and offers a fairly reliable greninja switch in.
Another option possibly worth considering is scarf trick Xatu. Alright, it's pretty niche and kind of crazy to suggest, but being able to passively block hazards and not having to waste a move on a defog is reason enough to at least give it a thought. It also has u-turn and along with psychic and one other targeted coverage move I could see it being worthwhile.
What I'd like to see is more teammate suggestions for beedrill either to remove its counters, to keep it alive longer, to keep the infuriating voltturn alive, or to just plain be safe against some threats in the meta. I play stall far more often than offense and I'm curious what other players out there are doing with their beedrills.
It is important to note that a pokemon with a U-Turn stronger than Scizor shouldn't be too affected by having a lack of coverage moves.
M-Beedrill comes in and U-Turns most of the time, and really, that's exactly what it should be doing. Also, X-Scizzor over U-Turn? Get
your priorities straight!
M-Beedrill comes in and U-Turns most of the time, and really, that's exactly what it should be doing. Also, X-Scizzor over U-Turn? Get
your priorities straight!
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