Bellsprout (QC 1/3)

Overview
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Bellsprout has resumed its role of fast and frail Chlorophyll sweeper in Little Cup. There are bulkier Chlorophyll Pokemon such as Exeggcute and Oddish, but they lack some key offensive elements. Growth and Weather Ball make a Special Attack-based Bellsprout more threatening while Power Whip and Sucker Punch gives the physical set viability.

Sun Sweeper (Special)
########
name: Sun Sweeper (Special)
move 1: Solar Beam / Giga Drain
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Weather Ball
move 4: Growth / Sludge Bomb
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb / Eviolite
evs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========
  • Solar Beam hits very hard and has 0 charge time due to Sun. It is Bellsprout's main STAB move. Giga Drain can be used in this slot to exploit Eviolite's bulk along with Growth.
  • Sleep Powder is very important as a means of bypassing certain counters and easing prediction.
  • Weather Ball is a very strong Fire-type coverage move in the Sun, which allows Bellsprout to hit Steel-types, Grass-types and other Grass-resists.
  • Sludge Bomb is a useful secondary STAB which does not rely as much on Sun but hits opposing Grass-types very hard. It will also handle most bulky fairies.
  • Growth is a risky move to use on a frail Pokemon such as Bellsprout, but the reward is very high for pulling it off. Sleep Powder makes it much easier to pull it off as well. It is far easier to use with Eviolite and Giga Drain to keep Bellsprout alive.
Set Details
========
  • EVs are standard Max SpA / Max Spe with leftover EVs in HP so that it can get an extra Life Orb attack.
  • Life Orb is for power and gives clean KOes on many Pokemon that Eviolite does not.
  • Eviolite lets Bellsprout actually tank certain hits and set up Growth, which makes it a very dangerous Pokemon to deal with. Combined with Giga Drain, the combo is quite hard to take down even with priority attacks.
Usage Tips
========
  • Bellsprout should only be used as a switch-in very sparingly due to its weak defenses. It has immense offensive upside if it can come in on a weak Grass-type attack or status besides paralysis.
  • Once brought in, if Bellsprout is OHKOed by the opposing Pokemon, it would need to OHKO the opponent or use Sleep Powder to ease prediction. If the opponent switches, Sleep Powder will give a free turn for Bellsprout to set up Growth and OHKO just about anything in the metagame with Solar Beam. If it can survive an attack (likely due to Eviolite), it can freely set up Growth and Giga Drain its HP back.
  • Sleep Powder also functions as a means of escaping on the last turn of Sun.
  • Even though Bellsprout has wall-breaking capabilities with Growth, it is best used as a cleaner late game, when Pokemon are weak enough to be KOed by Solar Beam.
Team Options
========
  • Any Pokemon that can set up an extended amount of Sunny Day is perfect. Vulpix with Drought is the most obvious choice.
  • Things that can Knock Off Eviolites really help Bellsprout clean late game. Gligar works for this because it draws in water-types for Bellsprout to use its very limited switch-in potential. Pawniard also has good type synergy with Bellsprout.
  • Bellsprout requires a Fletchling counter because it will be forced out. Tyrunt works quite well on a Sun-based team due to Fire Fang receiving a boost, while Pawniard and Archen also work.
Sun Sweeper (Physical)
########
name: Sun Sweeper (Physical)
move 1: Power Whip
move 2: Knock Off / Sucker Punch
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Swords Dance
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb
evs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========
  • Power Whip is Bellsprout's STAB attack that does the most damage.
  • Knock Off is an excellent coverage move since Dark-type attacks can hit Steel-types neutrally as well as dealing with any priority users. Priority in Sucker Punch lets you do more damage out of sun, and limits revenge killers.
  • Sleep Powder eases prediction and gives Bellsprout a chance to set up.
  • Swords Dance can be used on extra turns from switches and Sleep Powder to blow by more physically defensive Pokemon.
Set Details
========
  • Standard sweeper EVs.
  • Weather Ball is an option due to the Sun with Growth over Swords Dance, a Naughty nature, and the SpD EVs moved to SpA. Bellsprout can more easily deal with Pawniard who resists Sucker Punch.
Usage Tips
========
  • Bellsprout should be brought in on something it can force out or KO so that it gives the option to force a switch.
  • Once something is slept, it can set up Growth and proceed to sweep with Seed Bomb.
Team Options
========
  • Sunny Day or Drought are necessary, but less-so for this set since it does not rely on Solar Beam.
  • Knock Offs to remove Eviolite allow for an easier sweep.
  • Without Sucker Punch, this Bellsprout also needs a Fletchling counter.
Other Options
########

  • Bellsprout can function out of the Sun with a Swords Dance set, but many other Pokemon do this better.
  • It is fast enough to run a Choice Scarf set as well.

Checks & Counters
########

  • Munchlax with Sleep Talk is probably the most effective counter for Bellsprout since it can take an attack and KO back.
  • Snover will ruin any Bellsprout without Sluge Bomb because it takes away the Speed, Solar Beam, and Weather Ball turns Ice-type.
  • Vullaby has high SpD and can tank any unboosted hit and KO back.
  • Fletchling OHKOes with priority Acrobatics.
  • Grimer and other Poison-types that are bulky are also effective counters, they just need to avoid Sleep Powder otherwise a +2 Weather Ball will hurt.
  • Dragon-types resist almost all of Bellsprouts attacks, Dratini is probably the better option, having two abilities that deal with Sleep Powder. Sap Sipper Goomy also walls variants with only Weather Ball as coverage.
 
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What are the HP Ev's for? Shouldn't you try to reach 19 HP so you can only get 1 HP off from LO? (I'm not amazing at LC EV'S so :/)
 
Bellsprout has too much hp to get 19 HP LO recoil, even with 0 IVs.

Also, why are you running Growth on a purely physical sweeper, when Bellsprout gets Swords Dance? It's the better option against Snover.

Also, no mention of Power Whip? I'd say it's a generally better choice than Seed Bomb.
 
You ought to mention a few points that Bellsprout has over other Sun Sweepers like Oddish, which would be its access to Weather Ball and ability to go Special or Physical. Also, on Amber's note, if your gonna use Growth, you should only use it on Special/Mixed set (It does Mixed better than any other Chlorophyll abuser, so it might be viable?)
 
Also, why are you running Growth on a purely physical sweeper, when Bellsprout gets Swords Dance? It's the better option against Snover.

Also, no mention of Power Whip? I'd say it's a generally better choice than Seed Bomb.
Points taken.

I originally had it there for Weather Ball.

You ought to mention a few points that Bellsprout has over other Sun Sweepers like Oddish, which would be its access to Weather Ball and ability to go Special or Physical. Also, on Amber's note, if your gonna use Growth, you should only use it on Special/Mixed set (It does Mixed better than any other Chlorophyll abuser, so it might be viable?)
Don't see a point for the mixed set, I mentioned Weather Ball in the physical set and that's about as good as it gets.
 

Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
  • Growth should not be on the main set. Bellsprout is extremely frail, especially with this offensive spread, and when combined with the recoil caused by Life Orb, it can be objectively concluded that Bellsprout won't take a hit on its Growth turn and be able to survive a priority hit afterward (it does help that Bellsprout is resistant to Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, and Aqua Jet though). It makes Bellsprout undeniably stronger, certainly, but the risk involved in setting it up often ruins Bellsprout, and as such, Growth should be moved to Other Options. It's true that Growth can be used as the foe switches out, but Knock Off is a better option for taking advantage of forced switches and this should probably be included in the fourth slot, sharing a slash with Weather Ball. Sludge Bomb should be the decisive move in the third slot with no slashes, as it is a powerful STAB attack.
  • No mention of Giga Drain? If you're going to mention how Bellsprout works well as a cleaner, Giga Drain is an option over Solar Beam that's worth mentioning, as it mitigates the health loss caused by Life Orb recoil and allows it to better take priority hits during its late-game sweeps.
  • Knock Off should definitely share a slash with Sucker Punch on the main set and should probably be the first move in the slash. If the set is to be used in Sun, you're likely to be outspeeding everything except priority attacks anyway, and since everything can be expected to run an item, Knock Off outdamages Sucker Punch as well.
  • Give Sap Sipper Goomy a special mention in Checks & Counters in your sub-segment on Dragons.

Everything else looks pretty good. Make these changes and that's QC 1/3 ♥
 
So you want it to look like this:

Sun Sweeper (Special)
########
name: Sun Sweeper (Special)
move 1: Solar Beam
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Weather Ball
move 4: Sludge Bomb
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb
evs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid

I mean, it's not a huge deal to remove Growth, but in my experience it's much more useful than an additional coverage move simply because of Berry Juice. Without a set up move, Pokemon that Bellsprout should 2HKO will get 3HKOed, like BJ lax and Misdreavus off the top of my head, I'm sure there's others.

I'm not sure what the point of Giga Drain is....but I can slash it if you want. You lose an insane amount of power for some longevity which isn't useful for a Pokemon that's going to get KOed by everything anyway.

I agree about Knock Off, I'll slash that in right away. Let me know if you're still set on no Growth and adding Giga Drain.
 
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I dunno. I think Eviolite, Growth, and Giga Drain synergize pretty well to help Bellsprout set up and keep it alive and sweeping against weaker coverage moves and priority attacks. It can't take Sun-boosted Flamethrowers, but it's certainly not getting OHKO'd by everything.

204+ Atk Strong Jaw Tyrunt Ice Fang vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Bellsprout: 18-22 (78.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232+ SpA Chinchou Ice Beam vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Bellsprout: 16-20 (69.5 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ Atk Life Orb Carvanha Crunch vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Bellsprout: 16-19 (69.5 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Carvanha Ice Beam vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Bellsprout: 18-23 (78.2 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
196+ Atk Pure Power Meditite Ice Punch vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Bellsprout: 22-26 (95.6 - 113%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
196 Atk Pure Power Meditite Ice Punch vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Bellsprout: 20-24 (86.9 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
236+ Atk Munchlax Fire Punch vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Bellsprout in Sun: 22-26 (95.6 - 113%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Also, without Weather Ball (Bulbasaur only gets Weather Ball from an event) or Sucker Punch (or other physical attacks), Bellsprout is outclassed as a Growth sweeper by Bulbasaur, who has just as much power, significantly greater bulk, and 19 HP Life Orb recoil. So you should probably keep Weather Ball on the special attacking set.
 
Mentioning Bulbasaur and then suggesting a bulky Eviolite Growth set sort of logically contradicts. I also agree with Weather Ball being on the sets.
 
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They were kinda separate.

Modest Bulbasaur: 21/9/11/17/13/14
Modest Bellsprout: 21/14/11/17/9/13
Rash Bellsprout: 21/15/10/17/8/13

Bulbasaur has 4/5 more SpD than Bellsprout, but has 5/6 less attack. Bulbasaur also doesn't have Weather Ball or Sucker Punch.

This means that if you are not using Weather Ball, Sucker Punch, or some other physical attack, you should be using Bulbasaur (as a Growth sweeper, ignoring Oddish because it doesn't have Growth).

But it doesn't mean that Bellsprout can't run Eviolite. Even if Bulbasaur is bulkier, Bellsprout still has Weather Ball, Sucker Punch, and 70 base attack to differentiate itself, and those are all pretty huge. It still makes Growth easier to set up, especially if you already have Sleep Powder on something else. You lose a lot of power for punching through special walls, but being able to take a couple of priority hits is still pretty awesome.
 
I see your point, but I'm not sure if Weather Ball justifies Bellsprout on a more defensive-minded set, due to Bulbasaur being that much better defensively. What would the set look like?

Sun Sweeper (Eviolite)
########
name: Sun Sweeper (Eviolite)
move 1: Giga Drain
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Weather Ball
move 4: Growth
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Eviolite
evs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
nature: Modest
 
Growth
Giga Drain / Solarbeam
Sleep Powder / Sludge Bomb
Weather Ball

...or maybe Sucker Punch somewhere in there, but probably not, going Rash kinda screws your bulk.

196+ SpA Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 124 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Foongus in Sun: 22-26 (88 - 104%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 240+ SpA Bulbasaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 124 HP / 76 SpD Eviolite Foongus in Sun: 24-30 (96 - 120%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

196+ SpA Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Pawniard in Sun: 24-30 (114.2 - 142.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
240+ SpA Bulbasaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Pawniard in Sun: 16-20 (76.1 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 196+ SpA Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 196 HP / 76 SpD Koffing in Sun: 30-36 (130.4 - 156.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 236+ SpA Bulbasaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 196 HP / 76 SpD Koffing in Sun: 18-22 (78.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

236+ SpA Bulbasaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 228 HP / 228+ SpD Bronzor in Sun: 14-18 (56 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
196+ SpA Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 228 HP / 228+ SpD Bronzor in Sun: 22-26 (88 - 104%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Bulbasaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 212 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Dry Skin Croagunk in Sun: 16-19 (66.6 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Dry Skin damage
+2 196+ SpA Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 212 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Dry Skin Croagunk in Sun: 25-30 (104.1 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO

196+ SpA Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gastly in Sun: 18-22 (94.7 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Bulbasaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gastly in Sun: 12-15 (63.1 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

240+ SpA Bulbasaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Bellsprout in Sun: 20-24 (86.9 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
196+ SpA Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Bulbasaur in Sun: 22-26 (104.7 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

240+ SpA Oddish Hidden Power Fire vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Bellsprout in Sun: 20-24 (86.9 - 104.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
196+ SpA Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Oddish in Sun: 22-26 (104.7 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
236+ SpA Bulbasaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Oddish in Sun: 14-18 (66.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
240+ SpA Oddish Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Bulbasaur in Sun: 14-18 (66.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

196+ SpA Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Larvesta in Sun: 11-13 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
236+ SpA Bulbasaur Sludge Bomb vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Larvesta: 9-12 (39.1 - 52.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 196+ SpA Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Larvesta in Sun: 21-25 (91.3 - 108.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 236+ SpA Bulbasaur Sludge Bomb vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Larvesta: 18-22 (78.2 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Life Orb makes most of those clean KOes >_>. I'll add the set since it obviously has some merit offensively over Bulbasaur.
 

Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
So you want it to look like this:

Sun Sweeper (Special)
########
name: Sun Sweeper (Special)
move 1: Solar Beam
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Weather Ball
move 4: Sludge Bomb
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb
evs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid

I mean, it's not a huge deal to remove Growth, but in my experience it's much more useful than an additional coverage move simply because of Berry Juice. Without a set up move, Pokemon that Bellsprout should 2HKO will get 3HKOed, like BJ lax and Misdreavus off the top of my head, I'm sure there's others.

I'm not sure what the point of Giga Drain is....but I can slash it if you want. You lose an insane amount of power for some longevity which isn't useful for a Pokemon that's going to get KOed by everything anyway.

I agree about Knock Off, I'll slash that in right away. Let me know if you're still set on no Growth and adding Giga Drain.
Growth would indeed be a better idea with Berry Juice, but Berry Juice is not an item you listed in your set, and thus leaves Bellsprout prone to damage/priority.
 

Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
So you want it to look like this:

Sun Sweeper (Special)
########
name: Sun Sweeper (Special)
move 1: Solar Beam
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Weather Ball
move 4: Sludge Bomb
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb
evs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid

I mean, it's not a huge deal to remove Growth, but in my experience it's much more useful than an additional coverage move simply because of Berry Juice. Without a set up move, Pokemon that Bellsprout should 2HKO will get 3HKOed, like BJ lax and Misdreavus off the top of my head, I'm sure there's others.

I'm not sure what the point of Giga Drain is....but I can slash it if you want. You lose an insane amount of power for some longevity which isn't useful for a Pokemon that's going to get KOed by everything anyway.

I agree about Knock Off, I'll slash that in right away. Let me know if you're still set on no Growth and adding Giga Drain.
Actually, I was thinking this, as I detailed here:
  • Growth should not be on the main set. Bellsprout is extremely frail, especially with this offensive spread, and when combined with the recoil caused by Life Orb, it can be objectively concluded that Bellsprout won't take a hit on its Growth turn and be able to survive a priority hit afterward (it does help that Bellsprout is resistant to Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, and Aqua Jet though). It makes Bellsprout undeniably stronger, certainly, but the risk involved in setting it up often ruins Bellsprout, and as such, Growth should be moved to Other Options. It's true that Growth can be used as the foe switches out, but Knock Off is a better option for taking advantage of forced switches and this should probably be included in the fourth slot, sharing a slash with Weather Ball. Sludge Bomb should be the decisive move in the third slot with no slashes, as it is a powerful STAB attack.
Sun Sweeper (Special)
########
name: Sun Sweeper (Special)
move 1: Solar Beam
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Weather Ball / Knock Off
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb
evs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid


I know the power you get from Growth is incredible. But let's be honest: Can you take a hit while using Growth and then survive a neutral priority attack later, especially considering the health loss from Life Orb?

That's all I'm saying. If you want to use Growth, Berry Juice should be one of the items listed and it should entail in the writeup that Growth should only be used with Berry Juice, for the reasons above. Bellsprout just cannot take hits and setting up is not easy for it because of this.

Weather Ball is great, but there will be times when Bellsprout must operate without Sun; this too is something important to bear in mind.
 

Al_Alchemist

Physics and Math \O/
is a Past SPL Champion
Hi Briyella, I just wanted to advocate for the use of Growth on the main moveset. Two things: First, Sleep Powder helps you incapacitate an opponent, then proceed to use Growth (or Sub if you wanna get wild to get past Priority) without taking a hit. Second, you do this ->

+2 196+ SpA Life Orb Bellsprout Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 236+ SpD Berry Juice Munchlax: 31-36 (103.3 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 32, 32, 32, 32, 32, 35, 35, 35, 35, 35, 36)

+2 196+ SpA Life Orb Bellsprout Solar Beam vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 25-31 (108.6 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(25, 25, 25, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 29, 29, 29, 29, 29, 29, 31)

+2 196+ SpA Life Orb Bellsprout Solar Beam vs. 236 HP / 76+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 23-29 (88.4 - 111.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(23, 23, 25, 25, 25, 25, 25, 25, 25, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 27, 29)

Instead of this ->

196+ SpA Life Orb Bellsprout Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 236+ SpD Berry Juice Munchlax: 16-19 (53.3 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 19)

196+ SpA Life Orb Bellsprout Solar Beam vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Berry Juice Misdreavus: 19-23 (82.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
(19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 23)

Basically 3HKOs because of Berry Juice, whomp whomp whomp...

--

Now, regarding this specifically
Sun Sweeper (Special)
########
name: Sun Sweeper (Special)
move 1: Solar Beam
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Weather Ball / Knock Off
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb
evs: 116 HP / 196 SpA / 196 Spe
nature: Modest / Timid
I would take note to compare this set with Bulbasaur, specifically their stats like how Darkamber8828 did. Because:

Bellsprout gets these stats from those EVs.
Modest: 23 HP / 12 Atk / 10 Def / 17 SpA / 9 SpD / 13 Spe
Timid:23 HP / 12 Atk / 10 Def / 16 SpA / 9 SpD / 14 Spe
Bulbasaur (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Level: 5
EVs: 48 Atk / 44 Def / 240 SAtk / 160 Spd
Rash / Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd / 3 HP
- SolarBeam
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Knock Off
This Bulbasaur gets these stats from those EVs
Rash: 19 HP / 12 Atk / 12 Def / 17 SpA / 11 SpD / 13 Spe
Timid: 19 HP / 12 Atk / 12 Def / 16 SpA / 11 SpD / 14 Spe
Modest: 19 HP / 10 Atk / 12 Def / 17 SpA / 13 SpD / 13 Spe

Achieving arguably better stats, depending on calculations or on how much you value less LO recoil damage. Alternatively, and probably more efficiently, you just run a Modest nature and put the Def and Atk EVs into Spe to get a 14 speed Bulbasaur. Combined with the same SpA as Modest Bellsprout, while under the sun you can effectively outrun all 18 speed Scarf and below, while tying with 19 speed Scarfers (Gligar and Misdreavus) and neutral nature max speed Unburden Swirlix (which can be crucial).

edit: Actually Oddish may do the Knock Off-less variant altogether better, brb I'll check on showdown!!

edit2: Eh it doesn't really do it altogether better, since it lacks Weather Ball, Knock Off, and can't reach 14 speed with Timid, but with 240 SpA, 200 Spe, and 3 IV in HP this is what it looks like:

Timid: 19 HP / 9 Atk / 12 Def / 17 SpA / 13 SpD / 13 Spe (same as Modest Bulbasaur above)
Modest: 19 HP / 9 Atk / 12 Def / 18 SpA / 13 SpD / 12 Spe

Edit3: What are the significant calculations for LO Weather Ball over LO HP Fire from Bulbasaur or Oddish, at least HP Fire can hit Snover if it switches in for some reason, or outspeed/speedtie and KO it if it's not scarfed. Darkamber's only include for Eviolite, but perhaps those numbers are close enough to tell..
 
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Goddess Briyella

Banned deucer.
These are good points. I am actually beginning to wonder if access to Weather Ball and Sucker Punch are enough for Bellsprout to even be relevant when Bulbasaur exists.


Snover can switch into Bellsprout with no fear if it doesn't have Knock Off or Sludge Bomb, as Snover is immune to Sleep Powder, resists Solar Beam AND makes it have to recharge (can't switch out), and also makes Weather Ball an Ice-type move that only hits Snover neutrally.

Sucker Punch is a physical Dark-type priority option, but since Bellsprout is ONLY intended for use as a Sun sweeper, its doubled Speed will allow it to outspeed most things regardless, making Knock Off a better option, since it outdamages Sucker Punch (everything has an item) and also removes items from targets, making them easy to finish off by getting rid of Eviolite, disposing of things like Life Orb, or preventing Berry Juice recovery.

Bulbasaur has better stats and all the other moves that Bellsprout can make any use of.
 
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Weather Ball alone does, look at DarkAmber8288's calculations - it's not even an opinion thing. Foongus, Pawniard, Gastly, Koffing, Bronzor, Croagunk, Ferroseed, and Larvesta all deal with Sludge Bomb (and even HP Fire) and all lose to Weather Ball. Purely offense-minded, it's better than Bulba simply because of that move. Any other set, and Bulbasaur is basically 100% outclassing it.
 
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196+ SpA Life Orb Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Snover in Hail: 16-19 (72.7 - 86.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

196+ SpA Life Orb Bellsprout Weather Ball (100 BP Ice) vs. 36 HP / 116 SpD Eviolite Snover in Hail: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- 68.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

you lose against eviolite snover but nobody runs eviolite snover anymore anyway
 
Do you think a Sun Mixed Sweeper could run? I want to find the right evs and nature (Rash?) for that. Leave Sucker Punch/Knock off for a "only" Special Sweeper couldn't be the best use for Bellsprout
 
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tcr

sage of six tabs
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
In Usage Tips remove the mention of switching in on non paralysis status. Freeze is useless, and burns usually come from fire-types, that you dont want to fight anyway (and risky af to switch into). You can simply rephrase this to something like "Bellsprout can also switch in on spore based moves from users such as Foongus and Cottonee(this also gives you options to list specific pokemon it can switch in on)".

For team options you HAVE to mention archen / mag / tirt / w/e your preferred fletchling check is.

Also i think you can mention things like vullaby a a counter / check as well? Iirc it lives +2 sludge with rocks, but regardless its a great check aassuming no +2. Speaking of hazards, mention great hazard setters and memento support. For example diglett can get rid of pokemon such as trubbish and grimer, set up rocks, and memento for excellent pressure!

After that i guess qc 2?/3 w/e the next is (title needs updates :[)

My grammar is bad so i hope this makes sense lol
 

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