Bellyama!

[Colonel M]

When I saw a Belly Drum + Aqua Jet Azumarril on Shoddy (idiotic person who didn't look up the illegal combos and such), it got stopped cold by Tangrowth. TANGROWTH DAMNIT!

Anyways, continuing on your Bellyama... er, I'm going to be frankly honest, I've wanted to pull something like this at first, but I think Technitop with Bulk Up is even superior to this... only due to two things: Technician and STAB Mach Punch.

Nobody ever mentions this, but you could POSSIBLY pull off Belly Drum with Guts + Flame Orb, which could essentially help your Bullet Punch climb up a bit more. Of course one problem is is the freaking burn rate going against you and such. Still, even after Drumming, Hariyama is pretty slow and it's not like it'll climb the speed ranks even with a Salac Berry. In theory, you could pass Speed to him, apply the Belly Drum strategy, and still sweep, but I guess it's up to others to decide that or not.

 

[Deck Knight]

Belly Drum essentially quadruples the Att stat. I believe the Attack stat and the base power of the move are multiplicative in the damage formula so assuming the base power of the attacks are quadrupled is basically the same thing.

Even if the rounding down of numbers at various points in the damage calculation changes it, that should still give a good approximate estimate.

This.

Its not an approximate estimate but it's essentially the same thing.

Ex:

Ember and Dark Pulse on Houndoom vs. Granbull (No EVS):

Ember:

22.74-26.79%

Dark Pulse:

44.55-52.34%

+2 SA Ember:

44.55-52.35%

+2 SA Dark Pulse:

88.47-104.05%

Now, +6 Ember should be the same as +2 Dark Pulse:

+6 Ember: 88.47-104.05%

In other words, a +6 Bullet Punch deals the same damage as an UnStabbed move with 160 Base Power without a boosted attack. Focus Punch has an adjusted BP of 225, Close Combat has an adjusted BP of 180, and Cross Chop has an adjusted BP of 150.

There is pretty much no instance where boosted Bullet Punch will ever do more than Hariyama's STAB fighting move without a boost (bar Brick Break, which only hits 112.5 after STAB). Why sacrifice the 50% HP when you have a STAB that hits the same types SE, has more coverage, and less resistances.

 

[the_artic_one]

Why sacrifice the 50% HP when you have a STAB that hits the same types SE, has more coverage, and less resistances.

Priority.

 

[GengarCrysis92]

I'm going to propose something. Belly Drummers that can wall.These are walls that can take hits, and since they are slow, it doesn't matter. They can dish out attacks and take them. Lets actually call them BellyTanks. If you think they are utter failure, then fine. But they are ideas. Now, Hariyama doesn't work here because it is not bulky enough. The Pokemon listed below are bulky. Some even have recovering moves.


Snorlax @ Lefties
244 Hp/ 236 SpDef/ 28 Def
Careful: Thick Fat
---Belly Drum
---EQ
---Crunch
---Body Slam/Return
Now corrrect me if I'm wrong, but it won't need Atk Evs. I'm using the SleepTalk set for Lax on the Smogon Analysis. This makes it bulky to withstand most things, yet still be alive to hit back. Body Slam for PRLZ and STAB. return is stronger [if shoddy] but doesn't PRLZ. Crunch for Ghosts and Psychics. EQ for everything else except flying and Levitaters.

Heracross [Choice Band] beats it down, unfortunatly. But everything has a weakness, no?
Lucario [252 Atk] using Aura Sphere deals: 48.28% - 56.70%

Offensive
BellyLax using EQ against 4 Def Cario deals: 295.73% - 347.69%
BellyLax using Body Slam against 104 Hp Hera deals: 154.13% - 181.35%

Now, you see, it can deal with its counters well. Hera is the only Mon that will effectivly take donw Lax in one hit, Scarf or Band either way. If, they choose the wrong move however, they are dead. So, BellyLax is quite viable as long as Hera is out of the way.

So, other than speed, is this good?

Call me BellyDrum Obsessed, but I thought of making sets for other BellyDrummers. I ruled out Clefable, because it is not that good. So that left me with a few others.

BellyBro

Slowbro @ Lefties
212 HP / 252 Def / 44 Atk
Own Tempo: Bold
---Belly Drum
---Slack-off/Brick Break
---Zen Headbutt
---EQ
Ok. Not the ideal set, but it hits somewhat hard. Bro is lacking a strong Physical Water move. Slack-off, can make up for it though. i give Avalanche, because, unless you pass speed, it won't be out speeding anything anytime soon.

Hercross seems to be a threat to these tanks. Banded Megahorn OHKOs.
T-Tar [Banded, Crunch] deals: 78.39% - 92.19%
T-Tar [Dragon Danced, Life Orb, Crunch] deals: OHKO
Electivire [Expert Belt, Thunder Punch] deals: 55.73% - 65.63%
Electivire [Life Orb, Thunder Punch] deals: 60.68% - 71.35%

Offensive:
BellyBro using Zen Headbutt against 104 Hp Hera deals: 223.55% - 263.00%
BellyBro using EQ against 60 Hp T-Tar deals: 124.16% - 146.35% [DDance is PWNed even more]
BellyBro using EQ on a 6 Hp Vire deals: 227.05% - 267.12%

So, as you can see, Hera is still a threat. Brick Break also OHKOs T-Tar, but you can choose Slack-off over if you want. DDance T-Tar sets up, but get OHKOed right away. Vire gets OHKOed after trying to OHKO.

BellyKing

Slowking @ Lefties
212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 SpD
Calm: Own Tempo
---Belly Drum
---Slack-off/Brick Break
---Zen Headbutt
---EQ
The same EXACT thing as Bro, except on the SpDef side.

Everything OHKOs him, unless using a Special attack. So Lucario using Shadow Ball doesn't OHKO.


Same Calcs as Bro. Every move deals the same amount.

BellyLick [Um, ew]

Lickilicky @ Lefties
160 HP / 56 Atk / 116 Def / 176 SpD
Sassy: Own Tempo
---Belly Drum
---Brick Break
---EQ
---Return/Body Slam
MixBellyWall. Can take hits from boths sides.

Heracross OHKOs him with CC again <_<; But again focus Sash OHKOs Hera, so yeah.
Gengar [Specs, Focus Blast] deals: 86.28% - 101.50%
Metagross [Band, Meteor Mash] deals: 58.10% - 68.33%
T-Tar [Band, Stone Edge] deals: 58.35% - 68.58%

Offensive:
BellyLick using Body Slam against 104 Hp Hera deals: 94.19% - 110.70%
BellyLick using EQ against 60 Hp T-Tar deals: 147.75% - 173.88%
BellyLick unsing EQ against 252 Hp Metagross deals: 125.00% - 146.98%

Gengar is a problem here. It will knock you out. It hits back against all counters hard too. I put in Metagross and T-Tar here because the Smogon analysis says they should be fought with precautions, but thats not the fact here.


Obviously, BELLYTANKS are fairly good. Heracross hits all of them hard. Gengar utterly walls Lickilicky, so get rid of it right away.

 

[Deck Knight]

Priority.

Priority isn't usefull when you can't OHKO anything and require a turn of set-up that involves beating away 50% of your health.

If you just want to sacrifice HP for Priority, use Extremespeed Linoone. At least it can OHKO things with it and has decent speed otherwise.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

Hitting first isn't worth sacrificing 50% health especially on something that can actually take a hit or two when healthy (such as Hariyama).

 

[Great Sage]

My gosh, why do people keep on suggesting this? An unSTABed Bullet Punch, even if it does come from +6 Attack, isn't worth that much. For the record, an absolutely unboosted Jolly max Attack Garchomp Earthquake does ~21% more, and that should in itself undeniably quash this set.

 

[GengarCrysis92]

Can someone look at my BELLYTANKs and tell me if they are viable?

EDIT: If any1 was reading my BELLYTANKs, I didn't have any clacs yet. I started them, but I have to go for a little, so when I come back I will finish 'em.

 

[cornflake]

Why do you have Focus Sash on your "Belly Walls"

 

[sanjay120]

When I saw a Belly Drum + Aqua Jet Azumarril on Shoddy (idiotic person who didn't look up the illegal combos and such), it got stopped cold by Tangrowth. TANGROWTH DAMNIT!

Ah, Tangrowth. One of the only four (Shaymin, Salamence, Celebi) possible revenge killers to a Belly/Jet Azumarill with SR support. That was so much fun to use when people still didn't go to Colin about it.

Anyways, I have actually used Bellyama with Flame Orb and Guts. It sucked. ._.

If Hariyama got Mach Punch, this would be a great idea. But I just can't see it working and would rather just use Bellyzard.

 

[GengarCrysis92]

Why do you have Focus Sash on your "Belly Walls"

I couln't think of a better item. On BellyLax, it is a good choice for Hera.

 

[Karrot]

The problem is that you're using Belly Drum with Focus Sash. You're either going to be hit, activating Focus Sash and causing Belly Drum to fail, or Belly Drum then hit while Focus Sash fails to activate because Belly Drum stole away half of your health.

 

[GengarCrysis92]

You know, I feel really stupid. Gawrsh. I need a diff item then, if you think Lefties aren't good enough.

EDIT: I have a feeling, minus the stupid Hera factor, that these BellyTanks are the epitome of Tanks. I'm being really serious. think about it. everything, be quite about Hera, doesn't OHKO them with SE hits. Then, even though it is slower, it OHKOs them back. So, speed is not an issue here.

 

[Jiggy-Ninja]

yeah but on poor azu, belly drum + aqua jet is an illegal combo since one move is a emerald move tutor move and one is a bred move. also this might have some potential, i sometimes use hariyama as my defensive tank, so i'll try it out on shoddy one of these days. my problem with it is that its too slow, there are a lot of things that can take a bullet punch and OHKO back

Aqua Jet and Belly Drum are both Egg Moves for Azumarill. The problem is that it is impossible to breed both of those moves onto Azumarill.

Belly Drum essentially quadruples the Att stat. I believe the Attack stat and the base power of the move are multiplicative in the damage formula so assuming the base power of the attacks are quadrupled is basically the same thing.

Even if the rounding down of numbers at various points in the damage calculation changes it, that should still give a good approximate estimate.

Your assumption is right.

You know, I feel really stupid. Gawrsh. I need a diff item then, if you think Lefties aren't good enough.

EDIT: I have a feeling, minus the stupid Hera factor, that these BellyTanks are the epitome of Tanks. I'm being really serious. think about it. everything, be quite about Hera, doesn't OHKO them with SE hits. Then, even though it is slower, it OHKOs them back. So, speed is not an issue here.

I don't think so. If fact, based on the calculations you posted, they suck. Remember that Belly Drum, when used, eliminates half of your total health. And every counter you posted is dealing at least 50% damage to you, which is all they need to after the Belly Drum. Basically, Belly Drum fucks them up more than it helps.

 

[DeLorean]

Exactly why is it using a Salac Berry with no speed EV's?

It would be better to use the special defence pinch berry, I suppose.

If Hariyama got Mach Punch, this would be a great idea.

He does, so it's beyond me why bullet punch is used over it, rather than with it. :\

 

[Jiggy-Ninja]

He does, so it's beyond me why bullet punch is used over it, rather than with it. :\

I don't see it on Serebii's Pokedex page.

 

[Jediment]

Hariyama doesn't learn Mach punch.

Hitmontop would have to take 4 turns of Bulk Up to get Mach Punch to reach 400% power (that's with Technician and STAB). Unfortunately, that's significantly less practical (even with his reasonably good defensive stats).

Bellyama would make a good late game sweeper (okay, a very good late game sweeper). Unlike Bellyzard, who's designed to be supported by much of the team and wreak havoc early on, Bellyama will wrap up the match once, say, SR had been around, or their team just took some general damage.

Steel/Fighting is only resisted by 16 type combinations out of 153 (theoretical combinations that is).

 

[Macho Machamp]

Even with belly drum it can't do much without using its stab attacks, which most likely wouldn't work because it's too slow to make any good use of them. Why not just use Hitmontop with bulk up?

 

[Jediment]

Read above post please.

 

[Macho Machamp]

Oh.. well i dont have much to say to that haha. I still dont think it could work though. Im gonna test it out and see how it does with speed passed, on its own, with more atk evs, etc. Ill post the results laterr

 

[obi]

Bullet Punch to Infernape (after a Belly Drum):

99-117, or 33.8%-39.9%

Hariyama doesn't learn Mach punch.

Hitmontop would have to take 4 turns of Bulk Up to get Mach Punch to reach 400% power (that's with Technician and STAB). Unfortunately, that's significantly less practical (even with his reasonably good defensive stats).

It would be at 675% power after 4 Bulk Ups, essentially. 337.5% power after 1 Bulk Up, 450% power after 2.

1.5 * 1.5 * (2 + BU) / 2

 

[umbarsc]

I think this idea could work if you passed it some speed from Zapdos, and ditched the crappy Bullet Punch idea.

 

[Slice n Dice]

Does it have tremendous power? Definitely. Can it sweep teams? Absolutely not. 40 Bp without stab and crappy coverage is not enough to sweep teams even with +6 attack. His speed is the real thing that lets down the sweeping capabilities. Base 50= Outspeeds nothing, and is essentially stuck with Bullet Punch as his main attacking move. Perhaps will work with a speed passer like blazikien said, but we all know what Marowak can do with speed passed to it...

 

[Brawley]

I say linoone and charizard out class it =/, also there are way better options to pass speed too.

 

[Jediment]

Mixape Close Combat (Life Orb) v. Bellyama: 35%-41%
Mixape Grass Knot (Life Orb) v. Bellyama: 41-48%
Bellyama Brick Break v. Mixape: 221%-240%

I may do some math regarding Hitmontop and Hariyama, because Hariyama has 25 higher base Attack than Hitmontop. So I'm not sure how many Bulk Ups you'd need to have Hitmontop's Mach Punch doing as much as Hariyama's Bullet Punch (drummed).

Note that Infernape falls short of the 2HKO range (though SS damage could push him over with Grass Knot, his best option). Hariyama quite clearly OHKOs back with Brick Break. So Hariyama can live to do his deal another day (the actual purpose of this is not unlike Aldaron's Hitmontop: annoying priority havoc).

Speed passing is a good idea, and Hariyama makes a nice recipient with his gigantic HP and sweet resistances.