Bellyzard/Bellywrath: Two attacks or three?

Pheonix Gamma

I know that Substitute can be really useful in a Belly Drum user (I'm currently training two, just for the hell of it, Poliwrath and Charizard). But it seems like having a 3rd attack provides good type coverage (My Poliwrath has Waterfall, Rock Slide, and Brick Break).

The problem with that is I worry about my Pokemon fainting if I don't have a substitute set up. The sub also ensure you get in Salac Range, but it's enough to make me weary of using either Poliwrath or Charizard in such a manner.
 
But After a Belly Drum Fire Punch KOs most of the Dragons, so there's no point on hitting everything neutral if your NVE move KOs them =/ (Don't forget about Blaze!!)

Fire Punch + EQ is the way to go to KO like crazy
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Fire Punch + Return??, mmmm what do you think??, your Fire Punch almost always KOs 4 HP/0 Def Tyranitar anyway, oh yeah but this way Heatran walls you badly =P

I've seen that some people take Double-Edge into consideration for OHKOing those annoyings Bulky Waters but it's a suicide, so it would be better to ATTACK AND ATTACK so they can't switch in withouth taking heavy damage ^^

Bulky Gyarados might be a problem but it can't switch either, even after Intimidate it takes like 73-85% damage and its slower, so...!
 
Most Bellyzard counters are revenge kills. They won't be switching in and out. Fire Punch does not usually OHKO Tyranitar so don't count on that. If you're going for a late game sweep with Bellyzard and have scoped out the rest of the team (aka got rid of the bulky waters), then Fire Punch and Earthquake should be enough.

Double Edge is a good way to set up, just make sure that anyone with over 100 base speed is dead or they can switch in on the Drum and KO you. But most people don't seem to realize the risk of a Bellyzard so they'll switch to a bulky water unless they have Starmie.

I guess it's up to preference? I only know one other Bellyzard user in DP and we use two different Bellyzards with two different movesets.

Definitely don't go Dragon Claw though.
 
Firestorm seems to know what he's doing when it comes to Bellyzard =) Your warstory made me want to use one for the first time in a long time.

But you really shouldn't need much more than Fire Punch so I would probably go with Earthquake for the extra power and super effective hits rather than the bland Dragon Claw.

And Substitute will probably make your life a lot easier than a third move would.
 
I have no clue on Bellywrath as I've never personally used it. My Charizard actually doesn't use Earthquake. If you want to, you can try Fly for the extra power. Fire Punch + Fly does leave you open to Tyranitar and Rhyperior though. And it's pretty hard to pull off Fly once your opponent knows you have it.

Safest option I think is Fire Punch + Earthquake and aim for a late game sweep once you know you've gotten rid of your counters. If you're playing on Pokemon Battle Revolution, that shouldn't be too hard as you see their team beforehand ;) Double Edge instead of Substitute if you want to set up as they switch to a bulky water. Also lets you go out all Kamikaze style if they have more than one Pokemon who doesn't die to Fire Punch/EQ ^_^

The reason both two and three attack Bellyzard is listed in the analysis is because both are useable. I'd say Double Edge is more deadly, but riskier (if they switch in Starmie/Gengar/Azelf/Infernape/Garchomp). Remember, Stealth Rock + Substitute is a no-no! Double Edge set allows you to keep your HP odd so you can do the crazy risky Stealth Rock + Drum for 1 HP trick.

Oh, and I'm definitely no expert. Current record is 100-60. So, err, quite a bit of losses. Two of 'em with my real team vs a team that didn't EV train >.>; Crazy Fire Blast + Ice Beam Tyranitars with half their EVs in HP/Def :O
 
The big draw that Charizard has is his pinch ability. Sub + Belly Drum puts him at 25% so he gets another 1.5x on his Fire Punch.

75 * 1.5 (STAB) * 1.5 (Blaze) = 168 power

The problem with Bellywrath is that it just doesn't have that raw power, even though it can get slightly better type coverage with Waterfall and Brick Break. Since he lacks a third good move, however (Ice Ball? Yeah, didn't think so.) I'd instead go with Hypnosis and use that opportunity to belly drum and start knocking out 'mons.
 
You really don't need Hypnosis. Just use Substitute, just like Bellyzard. You won't get the Blaze, but Waterfall is still powerful, and Wrath has excellent defenses
 
Well I was gonna use him in the same vein as Firestorm: Set up using Butterfree's sleep powder and Rain Dance, switch to Poliwrath, then, theoretically, Substitute, Belly Drum, Salac Kicks in, Waterfall gets a big ol' boost.
 
G'luck with that, Pheonix Gamma, you could also try the same moveset but with Sunny Day, but that's a copy from another user that has posted that in a warstory ^^
 
Because you can't use it more than one time since you'll kill yourself with recoil damage, specially with BD is activated.
 
Dilasc said:
Why not use Flare Blitz instead of Double Edge to chip yourself away?
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Double Edge is usually used on whatever switches in to get yourself down to the salac berry and blaze boost. The thing that people switch in on Charizard usually resist fire.
 
Edux said:
G'luck with that, Pheonix Gamma, you could also try the same moveset but with Sunny Day, but that's a copy from another user that has posted that in a warstory ^^
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Rain Dance boost Water, which would boost Waterfall, which is Poliwrath's Water STAB. Sunny Day boosts fire. So...I dunno why I'd want to use Sunny Day instead.

(Also, wildly offtopic little Q: Is it worth buying pkmn XD or Colosseum for transfering stuff to the GBA? I'm not sure if I should get one of those or Emerald. I already have LeafGreen, but I'm missing a majority of the 3rd gen Pokes)
 
Pheonix Gamma said:
Rain Dance boost Water, which would boost Waterfall, which is Poliwrath's Water STAB. Sunny Day boosts fire. So...I dunno why I'd want to use Sunny Day instead.

(Also, wildly offtopic little Q: Is it worth buying pkmn XD or Colosseum for transfering stuff to the GBA? I'm not sure if I should get one of those or Emerald. I already have LeafGreen, but I'm missing a majority of the 3rd gen Pokes)
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Sunny Day + Bellyzard, remember this thread is also about Bellyzard
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Well in Colosseum you could catch the Legendary Dogs and reset for Natures/IVs, and there's also Ho-Oh and the Johto Starters =P

But in terms of 3rd Gen Pokes it doesn't have anything good but Metagross and maybe Makuhita if you like Hariyama.

If you have Diamond or Pearl then you have acces to almost all the 3rd Gen Pokes
 
If you're using both Poliwrath and Charizard on the same team, I wouldn't recommend Rain Dance or Sunny Day as you're basically screwing one over. The reason I personally use Sunny Day to to clear away sand/hail, not to power up my attacks. You'll only ever get one turn of the weather anyway

Rain Dance (turn 1)
switch (turn 2)
Belly Drum (turn 3)
Substitute (turn 4)
Attack (turn 5)
 
No, I don't think I'd want to even consider using two Belly Drummers on the same team. If I screw up twice with them, all I would be at an extreme disadvantage.

Also, BR then Sub? I thought you'd want to Sub first...
 
Yeah Sub and then Drum. My bad. And yes, you're right that two drummers on one team would be insanely risky =P
 
ChaosTW said:
How Do I get Fire Punch on A Charizard while keeping Belly Drum?
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Breed for Belly Drum in one of the GBA games (easiest in Emerald as that's the only one the Everstone trick and Magma Armour / Flame Body works in) and use the Move Tutor in Battle Frontier to teach it Fire Punch.

Charizard cannot learn Fire Punch in DP.
 
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