Survivor (Big) Survivor: Starhome

[vooper]

I appreciate this message,

1. I do believe my game was the best and therefore that my answers at an FTC *could* beat anyone. Psy at f8 did guarantee me FTC but I fw the “I’m not gonna vote for you because of that” mentality

So I will highlight the other MAJOR reason and the one that probably mattered to me the most personally

F10 was as I stated before, was the low point in my heroes journey, and totter was not my push at f9. That was two cycles in a row where (despite f9 not being detrimental to my game) I voted outside of my direct own agenda.

Eli wasn’t my direct push at f8 and I do think Psy was guaranteed FTC potentially over me if he survived f8. The main factor for me was that I needed a *successful push of my own agenda to put myself back into control of the game*

Psy vs Eli was hard for me because even though I do think Psy played better than eli, that eli was a bigger jury threat.

Nonetheless I made a tough decision I knew the jury potentially could be initially against, but I did so to put myself back in control of the vote and in a position where I would decide the votes for the rest of the game.

It’s not that I wanted an easy road to FTC, it was that I was okay with risking an absolute battle at FTC as long as I knew I played the best and could prove it. And I truly was an untouchable vote decider onwards from f8->FTC.

I understand thinking that Psy at F8 could’ve been taking the “easy way out”, but to me it was the road less traveled by that put me in a position to run the game which I’m hoping translates well in this message and in FTC as a whole. I will say confidently that I always played for 1st place since day 1.

I love this answer a lot, one of the most Ryo things I have read.

I'll say one thing in response to it.

Would pushing Eli have been unsuccessful for your agenda? Because it seems like that is what you are implying. Would this lack of success be from the worry that Psy takes your FTC slot (and not Eli's), or because it would threaten your relationship with Tommy / someone else. Or is it a secret third option where you are worried that (even though you believe your game was the best and you could prove it at FTC) that Psy could prove his game better even though he, as you admit, was less of a jury threat than Eli at the time?

i do not deny one bit that you were an untouchable vote decider from f8 -> FTC, but i am still not convinced that this is something unique to you or something that was the best look for YOUR game. An analogy i'd use here is jack of all trades master of none. It feels like you are trying to play a visible threat game, an UTR game, and an underdog game at the same time.

 

[Duskfall98]

So I didn't tell ryo this info based on meta, I told him that based on an in game read. I don't know how you play survivor really despite us being friends.

My point of view is that, your allies from loyalist had a chance to get torin out and you foiled it. I called it a very good play on your behalf at the time, but a selfish one. I was actually very complimentary of you because you had done a great job of getting in s16 good books.

That being said I wanted ryo to understand that while what you done had helped him greatly, it was incredibly selfish and a very individual play for you to sell out this vote, that quite frankly would have been HUGE for loyalists I'd you actually got it through.

I was trying to point out that, in helping ryo you had shown yourself as a selfish player selling our all your allies. I believe this was not the type of play you can build trust on. If you were to betray your allies you had survived a whole tribe + more with, long term relationship, then you would betray him and the others if you felt the need later. It was great play from you, but it showed that you were willing to make plays that hard fucked over your allies, and ryo was ready to full commit to you based on it. I felt he was being naive based on what you had displayed, and that he should accept the info and dynamic, but watch out for you turning on him the same way you had your allied to help him.

 

[vooper]

So I didn't tell ryo this info based on meta, I told him that based on an in game read. I don't know how you play survivor really despite us being friends.

My point of view is that, your allies from loyalist had a chance to get torin out and you foiled it. I called it a very good play on your behalf at the time, but a selfish one. I was actually very complimentary of you because you had done a great job of getting in s16 good books.

That being said I wanted ryo to understand that while what you done had helped him greatly, it was incredibly selfish and a very individual play for you to sell out this vote, that quite frankly would have been HUGE for loyalists I'd you actually got it through.

I was trying to point out that, in helping ryo you had shown yourself as a selfish player selling our all your allies. I believe this was not the type of play you can build trust on. If you were to betray your allies you had survived a whole tribe + more with, long term relationship, then you would betray him and the others if you felt the need later. It was great play from you, but it showed that you were willing to make plays that hard fucked over your allies, and ryo was ready to full commit to you based on it. I felt he was being naive based on what you had displayed, and that he should accept the info and dynamic, but watch out for you turning on him the same way you had your allied to help him.

gotcha, ill take this fully at face value then. i appreciate this a lot <3

hope yall are enjoying the vooper gauntlet as eli put it

general reminder that i adore all of the finalists and obv think you guys played good af games, only reason im trying to hit hard here is cause i think this FTC was going in circles af. LOL

 

[Duskfall98]

Perceived threat list is a weird question, are you asking me what it was in game or what it is now?

I think you want me to answer what I felt in game at f8, bearing in mind this is what I felt the threat level was for ryo and not myself:

Clouds>Torin>Tommy>Eli>Tbz>Zach>Psy

Edit: I am going to throw in the perceived threat level against my game in case you are also looking for that as I believe it is different

clouds>torin>tbz>ryo>Zach>Eli>Psy

 

[RyoDio]

I love this answer a lot, one of the most Ryo things I have read.

I'll say one thing in response to it.

Would pushing Eli have been unsuccessful for your agenda? Because it seems like that is what you are implying. Would this lack of success be from the worry that Psy takes your FTC slot (and not Eli's), or because it would threaten your relationship with Tommy / someone else. Or is it a secret third option where you are worried that (even though you believe your game was the best and you could prove it at FTC) that Psy could prove his game better even though he, as you admit, was less of a jury threat than Eli at the time?

i do not deny one bit that you were an untouchable vote decider from f8 -> FTC, but i am still not convinced that this is something unique to you or something that was the best look for YOUR game. An analogy i'd use here is jack of all trades master of none. It feels like you are trying to play a visible threat game, an UTR game, and an underdog game at the same time.

I will first clarify that I did come into bigvivor as an extreme underdog and kept that underdog mentality with me, the game I wanted to play though was one where I could break the boundaries of being an underdog and become a visible threat. I am well aware there are always other visible threats as the nature of late bigvivor implies, yet more important than even winning to me was growing into the biggest monster, of course winning should naturally validate that goal haha.

Going into the meat of your question though, due to my positioning throughout the first half of merge, it is true that I wasn’t in a position where I could guarantee to myself that Zach and Psy would want me at the end and that I had their loyalty, on a strategical level because I had a higher threat perception than them and was probably guaranteed certain votes for me against them. Then also on a trust level because Psy was on the outside of separatist and I was well aware of his middle game, whereas Zach had recently just betrayed both Brandon and Zoa.

Eli going at F8 could be shifted to fit my agenda but overall it actually gives a lot of power to Zach. An f7 where Zach has me, tbz, and Psy exist is one where Zach has control and if I were to try and successfully depose Zach, it would mean flip flopping from Zach-Tommy agendas and coming into FTC trying to take credit for other peoples needs and wants, even if I could do this successfully it’s very messy and I honestly felt I’d rather crush Zach and own the rest of the game on my own terms than empower Zach when I already thought I had a fighting chance against everyone left.

Lastly and arguably most importantly, trust is very huge in this game and I certainly trusted Tommy to play real with me late game than the other two for the reasons I listed above. I also naturally think I played better than Tommy up to this point so I didn’t mind my most trusted obtain “late game power” too as long as I could prove I was the biggest monster which I believe I’ve pitched thus far .

 

[vooper]

Perceived threat list is a weird question, are you asking me what it was in game or what it is now?

I think you want me to answer what I felt in game at f8, bearing in mind this is what I felt the threat level was for ryo and not myself:

Clouds>Torin>Tommy>Eli>Tbz>Zach>Psy

when you were in the game at final 8, who did you think were perceived as the biggest threats is what i was asking ye


imo perception is everything there is to survivor, and its how i learned how to play the game on other communities

im trying to keep an open mind this ftc cause ik you came in here wanting to prove stuff and i know that perception can 100% be trumped, but my biggest issue rn is that my understanding of what you have been saying is both that you knew that you would need to come into this ftc swinging cause you were not the perceived threat, while also that you handpicked this ftc because somehow in doing so it would show that you had control the whole time and that people knew you were up there in the treat trio with clouds

(the rest of this message is with the knowledge of the edit you made in the post btw, just was too lazy to change the parts above it)

ill try to make an analogy here that will be very crude but maybe helpful in realizing my thought process:

imagine you tell someone that they need to go out into the world and accomplish something so that they can build a resume. So, they decide that they are going to learn how to jump off of a cliff. They successfully plan a way to jump the highest they can off the cliff, they do some cool tricks in the air, and they put just enough padding at the bottom to where they survive the fall with a few injuries. Objectively speaking, this is pretty cool. The person deffo did something, and you can't take it away from them that everything they accomplished was because they wanted it to work that way and then it did!

However, what you CAN reasonably ask is... why did they decide to spend that time learning how to jump off the cliff in the first place? The task they were given to accomplish something was extremely open ended, and there were many other things they could learn how to do that would be a lot more impactful with that time. They could have been a shoe in for any job they wanted if they used that same energy on somethin

I am not doubting that you accomplished getting this FTC how you wanted it. I am not doubting that you had a lot of control in the game after I left. Hell, I'm not even saying that it is not impressive. But I just don't have a firm enough grasp on the why throughout what you have been saying. The threat perception of the game appears to be painfully obvious to everyone on the jury, and even Ryo from what I've talked to him about so far. So why did you spend all your time and energy on this master plan to get this FTC when I feel like you were in the perfect position in the single digits to accomplish a perfect FTC and win the game. Am I just the stubborn one here for not wanting to admit that your 10/10 dive off the cliff was an amazing use of your time?

I'm seeing now in your own threat level analysis at final 8 that you just... didn't see Eli as a threat. I see two ways of me taking this piece of knowledge. Either you were completely blind to what everyone else was saying about Eli's threat level and are now just chocking it up at FTC in saying that it was because of... pregames (I hate throwing this buzz word around, but I believe there is a direct quote of you saying his threat level is from pregames) OR that you specifically knew you were walking into FTC on the backfoot because of this perception, but that... this perception didn't matter because it was more important for you to....

... and this is where you lose me. I am confused as hell on why any vote aside from Torin/Clouds was helpful to you in the endgame here. You weren't at risk. You were a lock in FTC with your positioning and have an extremely impressive game. But then it feels like you made some, at best, neutral EV moves in the game. You were at the point in your game where you could hit your biggest peak from my pov, and it seems like you just plateaued and were content with it from your speech.

maybe im just being dumb here, and i genuinely am planning on reading back on some of your answers now to make sure im not being a complete dumbass, cause i have rlly appreciated you answering all my stuff rn

i probs wont ask another question after this (and a response if you respond to this wall of text, oops) unless eli says smth nuts, i promise ill reread now and keep an open mind cause i think there is just a fundamental difference in how we are seeing this rn

 

[vooper]

I will first clarify that I did come into bigvivor as an extreme underdog and kept that underdog mentality with me, the game I wanted to play though was one where I could break the boundaries of being an underdog and become a visible threat. I am well aware there are always other visible threats as the nature of late bigvivor implies, yet more important than even winning to me was growing into the biggest monster, of course winning should naturally validate that goal haha.

Going into the meat of your question though, due to my positioning throughout the first half of merge, it is true that I wasn’t in a position where I could guarantee to myself that Zach and Psy would want me at the end and that I had their loyalty, on a strategical level because I had a higher threat perception than them and was probably guaranteed certain votes for me against them. Then also on a trust level because Psy was on the outside of separatist and I was well aware of his middle game, whereas Zach had recently just betrayed both Brandon and Zoa.

Eli going at F8 could be shifted to fit my agenda but overall it actually gives a lot of power to Zach. An f7 where Zach has me, tbz, and Psy exist is one where Zach has control and if I were to try and successfully depose Zach, it would mean flip flopping from Zach-Tommy agendas and coming into FTC trying to take credit for other peoples needs and wants, even if I could do this successfully it’s very messy and I honestly felt I’d rather crush Zach and own the rest of the game on my own terms than empower Zach when I already thought I had a fighting chance against everyone left.

Lastly and arguably most importantly, trust is very huge in this game and I certainly trusted Tommy to play real with me late game than the other two for the reasons I listed above. I also naturally think I played better than Tommy up to this point so I didn’t mind my most trusted obtain “late game power” too as long as I could prove I was the biggest monster which I believe I’ve pitched thus far .

these are all extremely valid points and i am on board w all of this logic

i think the one disconnect i had is that i personally would have chose the ftc where i could act as the center point of the venn diagram between the two almost any day of the week, but all of your reasoning makes sense

ty ryo! u have survived the vooper gauntlet

 

[RyoDio]

these are all extremely valid points and i am on board w all of this logic

i think the one disconnect i had is that i personally would have chose the ftc where i could act as the center point of the venn diagram between the two almost any day of the week, but all of your reasoning makes sense

ty ryo! u have survived the vooper gauntlet

:>

 

[TorinLegend]

Hello! Although this forum is incredibly hard to read, I enjoyed reading the initial statements and a some answers to questions. After thinking and reading my decision is probably between ryo, tommy, and eli. Although, I am leaning a certain way at the moment. I want to ask the three of you what you think the best aspects of the other two people's game was. I'm looking more for how you answer, but the actual answer is still important too. I know it's late in the FTC period, but if you would like to answer I would appreciate it. Congrats on FTC!

 

[RyoDio]

Hello! Although this forum is incredibly hard to read, I enjoyed reading the initial statements and a some answers to questions. After thinking and reading my decision is probably between ryo, tommy, and eli. Although, I am leaning a certain way at the moment. I want to ask the three of you what you think the best aspects of the other two people's game was. I'm looking more for how you answer, but the actual answer is still important too. I know it's late in the FTC period, but if you would like to answer I would appreciate it. Congrats on FTC!

This is a very good question, I will start off with Eli by saying that it is impressive how Eli made it to FTC with the name Eli. While he came into bigvivor with a lot of friends, Eli also already had a massive target on his back due to his reputation. Eli’s game is characterized by him being a jury threat and challenge beast and still making it to the end which is very cool.

As for Tommy, his ability to maintain good play and not get pushed is very impressive to me. He played well throughout all of merge and very importantly and impressively also did what he set out to do -even though what he set out to do was in itself questionable. Tommy like me also had some of level of control throughout merge and I respect Tommy’s game a lot.

 

[Nuxl]

just got home, reading through !

 

[Nuxl]

vooper

this ftc is genuinely abysmal to read after having read all of it

i had a lot more respect for a lot of you going into this than i do now FGBJSHKDGF (mostly on game level, dw i love you all sm on a personal level still)

ill ask one question to all the finalists for now

You have the chance to take back one thing you have said this FTC. What is it? (alternatively: What do you think your worst answer to a question has been?)

i probably shouldn't have said my assumptions about tommy's personal intent when making this ftc since it was a bit more personal based on what he had told me earlier in the game and i rly shouldn't have stepped down to fighting him (and ryo by extension ig) about it and drowning the thread about it, and i think that stepping in and trying to defend myself from the assumptions that my game from the other finalists was entirely "pregame and my friends are on the jury"/"someone else controlled my game entirely" (despite that i feel like i've shown it was way more than such accusations, and it resonated within the scope and views of the game too!) defo drowned the thread uncomfortably especially since it lasted multiple pages and it likely wasn't that fun to read

Duskfall98 RyoDio

Changing the phrasing of my question:

You have the chance to take back something you said in this FTC about a strategic move you made. What is it?

edited in --- (eli respond to the original question if you want to do it in the same way of like "i shoulda said the exact same thing i meant but used nicer words :( but then respond to the strategic move one too <3)

While I stand that F10 was an incredible move that I carried through, I think with my positioning and reputation it's possible I did it a round too early where it set up the threat-fall way sooner than I probably would've wanted and made me too much of a shield - especially based on how people have been responding to this FTC way too far (it made my road to the end harder and more pitch reliant to place others in front of me + work on other people having at-the-time more ideal targets, but made my resume more impressive to the jury, I think) It's hard to say how it impacted the game past that point, albeit I don't know if anyone would've tried to gun for me at 9 indiscriminately, and the alternative was zoa staying in the game with an advantage and a group willing to vote with him, which might've made things a bit harder on the other coin. Other people had near-guaranteed FTC positions based on the earlier merge whilst I had to bust my ass off to make it here through pitches and a clutch immunity where I was doomed otherwise, which was obviously more annoying (but probably more cool overall!)

 

[Duskfall98]

when you were in the game at final 8, who did you think were perceived as the biggest threats is what i was asking ye


imo perception is everything there is to survivor, and its how i learned how to play the game on other communities

im trying to keep an open mind this ftc cause ik you came in here wanting to prove stuff and i know that perception can 100% be trumped, but my biggest issue rn is that my understanding of what you have been saying is both that you knew that you would need to come into this ftc swinging cause you were not the perceived threat, while also that you handpicked this ftc because somehow in doing so it would show that you had control the whole time and that people knew you were up there in the treat trio with clouds

(the rest of this message is with the knowledge of the edit you made in the post btw, just was too lazy to change the parts above it)

ill try to make an analogy here that will be very crude but maybe helpful in realizing my thought process:

imagine you tell someone that they need to go out into the world and accomplish something so that they can build a resume. So, they decide that they are going to learn how to jump off of a cliff. They successfully plan a way to jump the highest they can off the cliff, they do some cool tricks in the air, and they put just enough padding at the bottom to where they survive the fall with a few injuries. Objectively speaking, this is pretty cool. The person deffo did something, and you can't take it away from them that everything they accomplished was because they wanted it to work that way and then it did!

However, what you CAN reasonably ask is... why did they decide to spend that time learning how to jump off the cliff in the first place? The task they were given to accomplish something was extremely open ended, and there were many other things they could learn how to do that would be a lot more impactful with that time. They could have been a shoe in for any job they wanted if they used that same energy on somethin

I am not doubting that you accomplished getting this FTC how you wanted it. I am not doubting that you had a lot of control in the game after I left. Hell, I'm not even saying that it is not impressive. But I just don't have a firm enough grasp on the why throughout what you have been saying. The threat perception of the game appears to be painfully obvious to everyone on the jury, and even Ryo from what I've talked to him about so far. So why did you spend all your time and energy on this master plan to get this FTC when I feel like you were in the perfect position in the single digits to accomplish a perfect FTC and win the game. Am I just the stubborn one here for not wanting to admit that your 10/10 dive off the cliff was an amazing use of your time?

I'm seeing now in your own threat level analysis at final 8 that you just... didn't see Eli as a threat. I see two ways of me taking this piece of knowledge. Either you were completely blind to what everyone else was saying about Eli's threat level and are now just chocking it up at FTC in saying that it was because of... pregames (I hate throwing this buzz word around, but I believe there is a direct quote of you saying his threat level is from pregames) OR that you specifically knew you were walking into FTC on the backfoot because of this perception, but that... this perception didn't matter because it was more important for you to....

... and this is where you lose me. I am confused as hell on why any vote aside from Torin/Clouds was helpful to you in the endgame here. You weren't at risk. You were a lock in FTC with your positioning and have an extremely impressive game. But then it feels like you made some, at best, neutral EV moves in the game. You were at the point in your game where you could hit your biggest peak from my pov, and it seems like you just plateaued and were content with it from your speech.

maybe im just being dumb here, and i genuinely am planning on reading back on some of your answers now to make sure im not being a complete dumbass, cause i have rlly appreciated you answering all my stuff rn

i probs wont ask another question after this (and a response if you respond to this wall of text, oops) unless eli says smth nuts, i promise ill reread now and keep an open mind cause i think there is just a fundamental difference in how we are seeing this rn

Hi, so like I'm not an idiot everyone knows Eli is regarded as a good player on an out out of game level we can take that as a given.

I really just think this has been blown so beyond our of proportion it's bordering on unfair, especially considering most put me I. the oog threat trio early. I will admit that I thought tbz would receive the oog pregame lock voted Eli probably does - or at least some of them. I think this was fairly unpredictable compete honeslty. I think it's obvious Eli has in some form benenfitted from oog friends just working they
or win vote on him, even if that's just one vote.

That being said, although I felt tbz had this chance, I feel like if Zach was here there's not much reason for him to not have the same argument as Eli. Like, Zach was obviously a huge threat and one of the biggest fears in the game even on separatists was dyo and Zach getting the chance to link up because everyone was so afraid of Zach. I really think the choice to not have Zach here was good, and if he was here instead of Eli literally everyone would be saying the exact same thing.

that being said I did make my choice and k did cut out torin clouds and Zach instead of Eli - the only person I thought weaker was Psy, and I don't think that's a dumb read at all. All the others had very strong individual games and could all argue that. I knew Eli could not and at the end of the day I don't bieve Eli has been able to confidently say one play he can truly call his own, in any way this ftc.

I think the greatest unfairness comes in the fact that the jury seems to count Eli's survival, without any proactive okay at all an achievement. In a situation where Zach torin and clouds literally all could have Eli's full ftc argument + more gameplay, he clearly in this specific game, was a weaker player.

I genuinely believe that there was very little way for me to ever win this game at this point. Perceived threat matters a lot sure, but if someone can be shown at ftc to really have had no effect on the game then I think at some point jury should swallow their pride and see they just didn't play well. Me and ryo have been ragging for ages about Eli doing nothing and it is very easy to say we threw or are dumb or whatever, but at f4 in a game this size there is always going to be someone who has more experience than you.

Assuming I can't take Eli, because he is a perceived on paper better player than me then at that point i think at this point, the game is pretty unwinnable at all not only for myself but for ryo too and for Psy totters matieu and more people who probably don't have an oog rep.

I'd be much happier losing here if Eli had actually come up with his perceived threat level and backed it in some way, but I really don't think he has. He has only really claimed effort for the zoa thing whichever I obviously was heavily involved in, as well as surviving, which he only did so due to having the weakest game in my opinion from a sizable list of oog on paper strong players.

Here's the analogy to me: you gave eli the analogy because he went to a top tier school, only to find out he bottomed all his classes and got in on nepotism. I earned my interview and a middle tier school, but I got top grades.

At the end of the day you can hire Eli who probably looked somewhat more prestigious prior to the interview, but realistically after the interview you will see that it is an empty degree and he holds nothing myself or the other candidates don't have. The smart employer takes the mid tier with top grades, who played proactively, not the person who should be good I guess in theory because they went to a great school.

 

[vooper]

vooper



i probably shouldn't have said my assumptions about tommy's personal intent when making this ftc since it was a bit more personal based on what he had told me earlier in the game and i rly shouldn't have stepped down to fighting him (and ryo by extension ig) about it and drowning the thread about it, and i think that stepping in and trying to defend myself from the assumptions that my game from the other finalists was entirely "pregame and my friends are on the jury"/"someone else controlled my game entirely" (despite that i feel like i've shown it was way more than such accusations, and it resonated within the scope and views of the game too!) defo drowned the thread uncomfortably especially since it lasted multiple pages and it likely wasn't that fun to read



While I stand that F10 was an incredible move that I carried through, I think with my positioning and reputation it's possible I did it a round too early where it set up the threat-fall way sooner than I probably would've wanted and made me too much of a shield - especially based on how people have been responding to this FTC way too far (it made my road to the end harder and more pitch reliant to place others in front of me + work on other people having at-the-time more ideal targets, but made my resume more impressive to the jury, I think) It's hard to say how it impacted the game past that point, albeit I don't know if anyone would've tried to gun for me at 9 indiscriminately, and the alternative was zoa staying in the game with an advantage and a group willing to vote with him, which might've made things a bit harder on the other coin. Other people had near-guaranteed FTC positions based on the earlier merge whilst I had to bust my ass off to make it here through pitches and a clutch immunity where I was doomed otherwise, which was obviously more annoying (but probably more cool overall!)

awesome tysm esp for doing this answer basically twice

more specific question time then:

the biggest thing that turns me off from voting you right now is my perception of how your social game was with people who weren’t me (cause obv we have talked to each other a ton before). Can you name one thing you learned about each jury member as a person during this game? This can be as in-depth as you want it to be, anything from fun facts to something vague about a serious topic (I’m not expecting you to expose personal shit about people dw, this is just a question I ask on the jury a lot and find helpful)

 

[Duskfall98]

Also by the way, in a ftc where ryos biggest drawback according to jury was not getting Eli out, and I believe ryo actually played a better game than Eli and would be a more deserving winner, voting Eli was basically just handing the win to ryo instead who everyone would now think outplayed me.

Eli's existence on ftc isn't a vacuum and my reason to take him is multitude. My cutting him doesn't make my game much stronger, but it makes ryos way stronger which is very important here.

 

[Duskfall98]

these are all extremely valid points and i am on board w all of this logic

i think the one disconnect i had is that i personally would have chose the ftc where i could act as the center point of the venn diagram between the two almost any day of the week, but all of your reasoning makes sense

ty ryo! u have survived the vooper gauntlet

Oneast add on to you vier, it's interesting you say this because clearly to be the centre point of the Eli ryo Venn diagram was my point, and something I feel like I definitlry achieved.

 

[vooper]

Hi, so like I'm not an idiot everyone knows Eli is regarded as a good player on an out out of game level we can take that as a given.

I really just think this has been blown so beyond our of proportion it's bordering on unfair, especially considering most put me I. the oog threat trio early. I will admit that I thought tbz would receive the oog pregame lock voted Eli probably does - or at least some of them. I think this was fairly unpredictable compete honeslty. I think it's obvious Eli has in some form benenfitted from oog friends just working they
or win vote on him, even if that's just one vote.

That being said, although I felt tbz had this chance, I feel like if Zach was here there's not much reason for him to not have the same argument as Eli. Like, Zach was obviously a huge threat and one of the biggest fears in the game even on separatists was dyo and Zach getting the chance to link up because everyone was so afraid of Zach. I really think the choice to not have Zach here was good, and if he was here instead of Eli literally everyone would be saying the exact same thing.

that being said I did make my choice and k did cut out torin clouds and Zach instead of Eli - the only person I thought weaker was Psy, and I don't think that's a dumb read at all. All the others had very strong individual games and could all argue that. I knew Eli could not and at the end of the day I don't bieve Eli has been able to confidently say one play he can truly call his own, in any way this ftc.

I think the greatest unfairness comes in the fact that the jury seems to count Eli's survival, without any proactive okay at all an achievement. In a situation where Zach torin and clouds literally all could have Eli's full ftc argument + more gameplay, he clearly in this specific game, was a weaker player.

I genuinely believe that there was very little way for me to ever win this game at this point. Perceived threat matters a lot sure, but if someone can be shown at ftc to really have had no effect on the game then I think at some point jury should swallow their pride and see they just didn't play well. Me and ryo have been ragging for ages about Eli doing nothing and it is very easy to say we threw or are dumb or whatever, but at f4 in a game this size there is always going to be someone who has more experience than you.

Assuming I can't take Eli, because he is a perceived on paper better player than me then at that point i think at this point, the game is pretty unwinnable at all not only for myself but for ryo too and for Psy totters matieu and more people who probably don't have an oog rep.

I'd be much happier losing here if Eli had actually come up with his perceived threat level and backed it in some way, but I really don't think he has. He has only really claimed effort for the zoa thing whichever I obviously was heavily involved in, as well as surviving, which he only did so due to having the weakest game in my opinion from a sizable list of oog on paper strong players.

Here's the analogy to me: you gave eli the analogy because he went to a top tier school, only to find out he bottomed all his classes and got in on nepotism. I earned my interview and a middle tier school, but I got top grades.

At the end of the day you can hire Eli who probably looked somewhat more prestigious prior to the interview, but realistically after the interview you will see that it is an empty degree and he holds nothing myself or the other candidates don't have. The smart employer takes the mid tier with top grades, who played proactively, not the person who should be good I guess in theory because they went to a great school.

on phone so bear with me here

it’s likely not productive to go line by line here, but I’ll throw in a few minor comments.

I think from a juror pov I’m the only one who would agree on your read on tbz, unfortunately.

I may also be a unique juror in the sense that I see myself voting you or ryo 100% if Zach is here over eli (no shade to Zach I adore him, I’m just saying this cause I rate your game highly rn tommy, I wouldn’t be pushing this if I wasn’t rlly up in the air rn)

I think that my argument is that your proactivity is misguided. I am very aware that you did a lot of stuff, hence the analogy, I’m just still (as of this line, ill be typing more) not sold on the why.

i do agree that torin and clouds had my vote 100% over everyone else, but honeslty I have to ask what did they do in your eyes that Eli didnt? Is it cause of the advantage plays that were (no shade) a bit lackluster? Cause to me it seems like they were the threats cause they kept having their names thrown around and living through tribals while having strong connections, which can be said about Eli as well as you LOL. What moves do you think clouds and torin claim to be a big threat that Eli cannot? I’m hoping to get more of a read on what you think a threat is in survivor from this

the analogy makes sense logically and I give you props for it, I’ll hit send on this post for now and continue in a sec

 

[vooper]

Also by the way, in a ftc where ryos biggest drawback according to jury was not getting Eli out, and I believe ryo actually played a better game than Eli and would be a more deserving winner, voting Eli was basically just handing the win to ryo instead who everyone would now think outplayed me.

Eli's existence on ftc isn't a vacuum and my reason to take him is multitude. My cutting him doesn't make my game much stronger, but it makes ryos way stronger which is very important here.

This is something I very much wanted to hear

my only response would be that imo in the end game it becomes everyone’s best interests to take out threats. Hence why no one can really take credit for the clouds vote according to many people. I don’t think you are giving ryo alone what he wants by securing your best FTC (at least in my eyes)

Oneast add on to you vier, it's interesting you say this because clearly to be the centre point of the Eli ryo Venn diagram was my point, and something I feel like I definitlry achieved.

you are fully right about this! Nothing to say but agreement here

 

[vooper]

Btw I have to ask, who tf is claiming credit in this FTC for final 9, because I know it’s not ryo and I am gonna have to reread again to see Eli and Tommy takes on it

 

[RyoDio]

Btw I have to ask, who tf is claiming credit in this FTC for final 9, because I know it’s not ryo and I am gonna have to reread again to see Eli and Tommy takes on it

off of what I’ve read they both take credit for it lol

 

[vooper]

Btw I have to ask, who tf is claiming credit in this FTC for final 9, because I know it’s not ryo and I am gonna have to reread again to see Eli and Tommy takes on it

i have officially reread the speeches for this and final 10 and have remembered why I forgot this <3

not thrilled about a lot of the gameplay at this tribal from the finalists, cannot lie


the idol flush seems bad for eli pov and good for Tommy, but the result of the tribal seems bad for Tommy and good for Eli

ryo gets a pass cause he was training in the mountains during this arc to avenge his master zoa

 

[vooper]

i have officially reread the speeches for this and final 10 and have remembered why I forgot this <3

not thrilled about a lot of the gameplay at this tribal from the finalists, cannot lie


the idol flush seems bad for eli pov and good for Tommy, but the result of the tribal seems bad for Tommy and good for Eli

ryo gets a pass cause he was training in the mountains during this arc to avenge his master zoa

feel the need to add here that the finalists have all played very well, I’m just being bitchy in tone cause it’s fun—thebetter way of phrasing this is that this tribal feels like something I can’t cleanly say one person did better in because fmpov in hindsight there are flaws on both ends

Sorry for spam!

 

[Duskfall98]

myself voting you or ryo 100% if Zach is here over eli (no shade to Zach I adore him, I’m just saying this cause I rate your game highly rn tommy, I wouldn’t be pushing this if I wasn’t rlly up in the air rn)

For my game to make sense in my opinion: which every individual juror believes Eli or Zach should be ahead isn't a huge deal. What matters most is the fact that both of them were probably similar spots, with similar arguments at end of game which I believe to be true.

Given their comparable positions, which I take to ftc isn't a huge deal and shouldnt be as either council is probably closely difficult and goes similarly regardless. That being said the fact I had this read and awareness and was able to pick one of two better options of Zach or Eli says a lot. I think it makes it clear my decision making wasn't as bad as people seem to be portraying, and that I did use my control on the game to pick the optimal ftc for me, if not the exact one then one of the comparably most easy ones.

When you take all this into effect I think it becomes abundantly more fair for me to say: Eli is lucky I picked him, because if I had picked zach instead, it would be really nothing he could do. He didn't really do anything to get to this endgame beyond being one of the most optimal people for me to take alongside zach, and off that for me to feel like my argument based on actual gameplay shows he did little without me. This is something I think still is showing as again, he hasn't displayed a point in the merge he acted without me.

 

[RyoDio]

Eli

ryo gets a pass cause he was training in the mountains during this arc to avenge his master zoa

LMFAO THATS SUCH A GOOD QUOTE

 

[Nuxl]

sorry, had to dip for a bit!

Hello! Although this forum is incredibly hard to read, I enjoyed reading the initial statements and a some answers to questions. After thinking and reading my decision is probably between ryo, tommy, and eli. Although, I am leaning a certain way at the moment. I want to ask the three of you what you think the best aspects of the other two people's game was. I'm looking more for how you answer, but the actual answer is still important too. I know it's late in the FTC period, but if you would like to answer I would appreciate it. Congrats on FTC!

TorinLegend cool q!

I think Ryo had a good position where he had the advantage of separatists, while also having people like TBZ, Zach, and Tommy willing to take him to the end for various reasons - absolute loyalty or because they thought they could beat him over others due to his repositioning mid-merge. Despite his initial threat level entering the merge and his position, he had people willing to work with him when the going probably should've gotten rougher. This gave him a decent amount of protection to where others might've not had the same luxury for at the end, and agency to decide on votes because of pacts he made early on in merge whilst considering who to put in front of him.

Tommy had played very well and lowkey earlier in the merge to get an endgame position where he could've probably forced whatever FTC combination he wanted that he included in himself- and he did! Strategically he was well focused and I think acted under what he believed was right, so he was able to get his way. There were a lot of shields in front of him with larger resumes and perception, some of which shared attributes of his game as well, and in an entirely different FTC he sets up for endgame it's very likely that he would've absolutely crushed it completely as he was one of the deciding factors in those votes.

(and unlike what both think of me i think both have played good games too )